On 10/09/2023 14:34, bad sector wrote:
> On 9/10/23 01:00, Henry Crun wrote:
>> On 09/09/2023 23:53, bad sector wrote:
>>> On 2023-09-09 15:16, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>> bad sector wrote:
>>>>> "I advise against removing snap support from Ubuntu as it is built-in
>>>>> with the system.
>>>>
>>>> "built-in with the system" Sorry I am calling bs on that one. You can
>>>> easily remove it, it is not "built-in"
>>>
>>> OK, take it up with the copuke guru who wrote it. Me I took it out, then I couldn't log in any more, then I
>>> backleveled and now I'm writing from it. End of story.
>>>
>> <..snipped...>
>>
>> probably PBK&C
>
> That's always possible but the steps listed really exlude unrelated interventions.
>
>> Not a guru, myself. Followd easy-to-find instructions, now running fine withot snap Ub. 20.04, fully updated.
>
> I followed the instructions:
>
> 1
> removed all the 'snap-listed' snap-based packages and then
>
> 2
> removed all the snap-system packagess that remained.
>
> I did nothing else. I might try again if and when I have time.
>
>
>
I did this over a year ago, and the site where I read the instructions is no longer accessable. But I do recall there
being more ste[s than what you mentioned. Sorry, memory cells are fading...

--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

On 9/10/23 00:53, this is what azigni wrote:
> I have donated $0.00 to Linux. I'm grateful for Linux in all its forms. Be grateful, you too can be a user for $0.00. If
> that isn't good enough, move on to another OS.
>
>
I thought about Mint's plea for donations, irregardless of which way the donations are going, I put in $25 last month.
I guess I was in just that right mood and as much as I use my machine, and the hours of fun and use I get a day out of
it, I thought $25 was a cheap expense. Not that it is flawless, just quite useful.

Soap box over.
--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

Henry Crun wrote:
> On 10/09/2023 14:34, bad sector wrote:
>> On 9/10/23 01:00, Henry Crun wrote:
>>> On 09/09/2023 23:53, bad sector wrote:
>>>> On 2023-09-09 15:16, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>>> bad sector wrote:
>>>>>> "I advise against removing snap support from Ubuntu as it is built-in
>>>>>> with the system.
>>>>>
>>>>> "built-in with the system" Sorry I am calling bs on that one. You can
>>>>> easily remove it, it is not "built-in"
>>>>
>>>> OK, take it up with the copuke guru who wrote it. Me I took it out,
>>>> then I couldn't log in any more, then I backleveled and now I'm
>>>> writing from it. End of story.
>>>>
>>> <..snipped...>
>>>
>>> probably PBK&C
>>
>> That's always possible but the steps listed really exlude unrelated
>> interventions.
>>
>>> Not a guru, myself. Followd easy-to-find instructions, now running
>>> fine withot snap Ub. 20.04, fully updated.
>>
>> I followed the instructions:
>>
>> 1
>> removed all the 'snap-listed' snap-based packages and then
>>
>> 2
>> removed all the snap-system packagess that remained.
>>
>> I did nothing else. I might try again if and when I have time.
>>
>>
>>
> I did this over a year ago, and the site where I read the instructions
> is no longer accessable. But I do recall there being more ste[s than
> what you mentioned. Sorry, memory cells are fading...
>

Basically following these instructions, (one of many sites with same info):

<https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-deb-apt-ubuntu-22-04>

Then completely remove snapd if you have not other snap apps

sudo apt remove snapd

That is it.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On 9/10/23 08:56, Henry Crun wrote:
> On 10/09/2023 14:34, bad sector wrote:
>> On 9/10/23 01:00, Henry Crun wrote:
>>> On 09/09/2023 23:53, bad sector wrote:
>>>> On 2023-09-09 15:16, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>>> bad sector wrote:
>>>>>> "I advise against removing snap support from Ubuntu as it is built-in
>>>>>> with the system.
>>>>>
>>>>> "built-in with the system" Sorry I am calling bs on that one. You can
>>>>> easily remove it, it is not "built-in"
>>>>
>>>> OK, take it up with the copuke guru who wrote it. Me I took it out,
>>>> then I couldn't log in any more, then I backleveled and now I'm
>>>> writing from it. End of story.
>>>>
>>> <..snipped...>
>>>
>>> probably PBK&C
>>
>> That's always possible but the steps listed really exlude unrelated
>> interventions.
>>
>>> Not a guru, myself. Followd easy-to-find instructions, now running
>>> fine withot snap Ub. 20.04, fully updated.
>>
>> I followed the instructions:
>>
>> 1
>> removed all the 'snap-listed' snap-based packages and then
>>
>> 2
>> removed all the snap-system packagess that remained.
>>
>> I did nothing else. I might try again if and when I have time.
>>
> I did this over a year ago, and the site where I read the instructions
> is no longer accessable. But I do recall there being more ste[s than
> what you mentioned. Sorry, memory cells are fading...

Familiar :-)

No rush, I fixed a hsitload of outstanding issues so my ubuntu
2do list is _almost_ clear

On Sat, 09 Sep 2023 15:36:57 -0400, David W. Hodgins wrote:

>
> If redhat and/or ibm ever decide to make changes to systemd that annoy enough
> developers and distribution creators, then like any gpl licensed software, it
> will get forked.
>

There is much more to GNU/Linux than developers and distro creators. There
are also USERS and a LOT of users do not desire systemd, GNOME, KDE, etc.

But the voice of these users is totally disregarded because the developers
and distro maintainers have the "we know best" attitude.

This is no delusion. The "we know best and let the user be damned" attitude
is perhaps the norm among developers and distro maintainers.

There are some few exceptions, with Gentoo being the most significant.

It it were not for Gentoo I would not be able to maintain my custom GNU/Linux
system as I desire.

On 9/10/2023 11:02 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Henry Crun wrote:
>> On 10/09/2023 14:34, bad sector wrote:
>>> On 9/10/23 01:00, Henry Crun wrote:
>>>> On 09/09/2023 23:53, bad sector wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-09-09 15:16, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>>>> bad sector wrote:
>>>>>>> "I advise against removing snap support from Ubuntu as it is built-in
>>>>>>> with the system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "built-in with the system" Sorry I am calling bs on that one. You can
>>>>>> easily remove it, it is not "built-in"
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, take it up with the copuke guru who wrote it. Me I took it out,
>>>>> then I couldn't log in any more, then I backleveled and now I'm
>>>>> writing from it. End of story.
>>>>>
>>>> <..snipped...>
>>>>
>>>> probably PBK&C
>>>
>>> That's always possible but the steps listed really exlude unrelated
>>> interventions.
>>>
>>>> Not a guru, myself. Followd easy-to-find instructions, now running
>>>> fine withot snap Ub. 20.04, fully updated.
>>>
>>> I followed the instructions:
>>>
>>> 1
>>> removed all the 'snap-listed' snap-based packages and then
>>>
>>> 2
>>> removed all the snap-system packagess that remained.
>>>
>>> I did nothing else. I might try again if and when I have time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I did this over a year ago, and the site where I read the instructions
>> is no longer accessable. But I do recall there being more ste[s than
>> what you mentioned. Sorry, memory cells are fading...
>>
>
> Basically following these instructions, (one of many sites with same info):
>
> <https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-deb-apt-ubuntu-22-04>
>
> Then completely remove snapd if you have not other snap apps
>
> sudo apt remove snapd
>
> That is it.
>

When I do

snap list

I see a "gnome" entry. I see Firefox too. In the tree,
Firefox is only available as a Snap, not as a .deb (whereas
Firefox is a .deb on Mint and acquired directly from Mozilla
in a brown paper bag).

If I do this

sudo apt remove snapd

then before and after I reboot the VM, the loop mounts are still there,
and the Snap packages are still running. The loop mounts are on top of
mount point /snap and thus the 4GB we see in the tree there, is all
squashfs mounts on top of /snap.

bullwinkle@SUPERFLY:~$ cat /etc/mtab
....
/dev/loop2 /snap/bare/5 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
/dev/loop3 /snap/core22/607 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
/dev/loop0 /snap/core22/858 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0

/dev/loop1 /snap/gnome-42-2204/126 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0 <=== Trouble ???
/dev/loop4 /snap/firefox/2517 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0 <=== Trouble ???

/dev/loop5 /snap/snapd-desktop-integration/83 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
/dev/sda2 /var/snap/firefox/common/host-hunspell ext4 ro,noexec,noatime 0 0
/dev/loop10 /snap/snapd/18933 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
/dev/loop8 /snap/gtk-common-themes/1535 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
/dev/loop7 /snap/gnome-42-2204/87 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
/dev/loop6 /snap/snap-store/959 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
/dev/loop9 /snap/snapd/19457 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
....
bullwinkle@SUPERFLY:~$

However, with no snapd, this command no longer works.

snap list # command not found

Doing that seems to remove the management of it, at least.

If, using Synaptic, I attempt the equivalent of

sudo apt install firefox

then it includes as a dependency, the snapd package I have just removed.

So not only will I have to switch over my Firefox, before doing
additional damage, I'll need to find Gnome DE too, as a .deb .
Ubuntu Studio might have different dependencies, similar to those.

*******

I gave it a try, and Ubuntu 23.04 survived the removal of its nads.

sudo apt remove snapd

Then, boot the DVD and do a bit more work.

sudo mount /dev/sda2 /mnt
cd /mnt/snap
sudo rm -Rf *
cd ..
sudo chattr +i snap # This keeps the naughty munchkins from mounting stuff in here
sudo umount /mnt

On a reboot, it still works. There is a "gnome" entry in Synaptic,
so maybe a .deb version there awaits.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/FHKCK8Ss/ub2304-unsnapped.gif

Paul

Paul wrote:
> When I do
>
> snap list
>
> I see a "gnome" entry. I see Firefox too. In the tree,
> Firefox is only available as a Snap, not as a .deb (whereas
> Firefox is a .deb on Mint and acquired directly from Mozilla
> in a brown paper bag).
>
> If I do this
>
> sudo apt remove snapd
>
> then before and after I reboot the VM, the loop mounts are still there,
> and the Snap packages are still running. The loop mounts are on top of
> mount point /snap and thus the 4GB we see in the tree there, is all
> squashfs mounts on top of /snap.
>
> bullwinkle@SUPERFLY:~$ cat /etc/mtab
> ...
> /dev/loop2 /snap/bare/5 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
> /dev/loop3 /snap/core22/607 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
> /dev/loop0 /snap/core22/858 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
>
> /dev/loop1 /snap/gnome-42-2204/126 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0 <=== Trouble ???
> /dev/loop4 /snap/firefox/2517 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0 <=== Trouble ???
>
> /dev/loop5 /snap/snapd-desktop-integration/83 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
> /dev/sda2 /var/snap/firefox/common/host-hunspell ext4 ro,noexec,noatime 0 0
> /dev/loop10 /snap/snapd/18933 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
> /dev/loop8 /snap/gtk-common-themes/1535 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
> /dev/loop7 /snap/gnome-42-2204/87 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
> /dev/loop6 /snap/snap-store/959 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
> /dev/loop9 /snap/snapd/19457 squashfs ro,nodev,relatime,errors=continue,threads=single 0 0
> ...
> bullwinkle@SUPERFLY:~$
>
> However, with no snapd, this command no longer works.
>
> snap list # command not found
>
> Doing that seems to remove the management of it, at least.
>
> If, using Synaptic, I attempt the equivalent of
>
> sudo apt install firefox
>
> then it includes as a dependency, the snapd package I have just removed.
>
> So not only will I have to switch over my Firefox, before doing
> additional damage, I'll need to find Gnome DE too, as a .deb .
> Ubuntu Studio might have different dependencies, similar to those.
>
> *******
>
> I gave it a try, and Ubuntu 23.04 survived the removal of its nads.
>
> sudo apt remove snapd
>
> Then, boot the DVD and do a bit more work.
>
> sudo mount /dev/sda2 /mnt
> cd /mnt/snap
> sudo rm -Rf *
> cd ..
> sudo chattr +i snap # This keeps the naughty munchkins from mounting stuff in here
> sudo umount /mnt
>
> On a reboot, it still works. There is a "gnome" entry in Synaptic,
> so maybe a .deb version there awaits.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/FHKCK8Ss/ub2304-unsnapped.gif

Firstly IIRC he was using 22.04 LTS, and my example was for 22.04 LTS.
Non-LTS can be a crapshoot. I have a HP EliteBook that has 23.04 but I
haven't bothered to remove the snap version of Firefox because I was
testing the claim that they improved the snap load times and it seems
that they have.

Now before you can remove snapd you do have to change the repository
priority of Firefox to the deb, else after an update the snap version
will be reinstalled. But, at least with 22.04, after doing the previous
steps nothing breaks when your remove snapd.

snapd:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 2.58+22.04.1
Version table:
2.58+22.04.1 500
500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-updates/main amd64
Packages
500 http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-security/main amd64
Packages
2.55.3+22.04 500
500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy/main amd64 Packages

No snapd.

sysfs /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
proc /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
udev /dev devtmpfs
rw,nosuid,relatime,size=3805692k,nr_inodes=951423,mode=755,inode64 0 0
devpts /dev/pts devpts
rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000 0 0
tmpfs /run tmpfs
rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=769476k,mode=755,inode64 0 0
/dev/sda1 / ext4 rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro 0 0
securityfs /sys/kernel/security securityfs
rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,inode64 0 0
tmpfs /run/lock tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=5120k,inode64 0 0
cgroup2 /sys/fs/cgroup cgroup2
rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,nsdelegate,memory_recursiveprot 0 0
pstore /sys/fs/pstore pstore rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
bpf /sys/fs/bpf bpf rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=700 0 0
systemd-1 /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc autofs
rw,relatime,fd=29,pgrp=1,timeout=0,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct,pipe_ino=18610
0 0
mqueue /dev/mqueue mqueue rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
hugetlbfs /dev/hugepages hugetlbfs rw,relatime,pagesize=2M 0 0
debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
tracefs /sys/kernel/tracing tracefs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
ramfs /run/credentials/systemd-sysusers.service ramfs
ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=700 0 0
configfs /sys/kernel/config configfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
fusectl /sys/fs/fuse/connections fusectl rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
/dev/sdb1 /mnt/extra ext4 rw,relatime 0 0
/dev/sda5 /home ext4 rw,relatime 0 0
binfmt_misc /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc binfmt_misc
rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
sunrpc /run/rpc_pipefs rpc_pipefs rw,relatime 0 0
tmpfs /run/user/1000 tmpfs
rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,size=769472k,nr_inodes=192368,mode=700,uid=1000,gid=1000,inode64
0 0
gvfsd-fuse /run/user/1000/gvfs fuse.gvfsd-fuse
rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000 0 0
portal /run/user/1000/doc fuse.portal
rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000 0 0

No snap virtual mounts...no broken GNOME.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

"David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> writes:

>
> Learning how to use systemd and all of it's components is a large learning curve.
> So was learning how to minimize cyclic dependencies with initd start up scripts.

SysV init scripts were a puked-up cat's hairball of non-uniform shell
scripts and a bunch of symlinks. Good riddance! :-)