Hi All,

Ages ago someone in these parts mentioned that
they did not like Linux because they could not
figure out who was using a particular port.

I just had to trace one down. You just have to
use the command line:

Linux Networking: how to trace down what program is using what port:

--> # ss -l -p -n | fgrep port_in_question Must be run as root!
will give you the program name(s) usig that port, maybe

OR

# lsof -i udp:3780 Also must be root

--> $ rpm -q -i -f /program/name

For Example:

# ss -l -p -n | fgrep 3780
udp UNCONN 0 0
0.0.0.0:3780 0.0.0.0:*
users:(("conntrackd",pid=5617,fd=6))

The following is the program information
"conntrackd",pid=5617,fd=6

# lsof -i udp:3780
COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
conntrack 5617 root 6u IPv4 33770 0t0 UDP *:nnp

$ rpm -q -i -f $(which conntrackd)
Name : conntrack-tools
Version : 1.4.6
Release : 4.fc37
Architecture: x86_64
Install Date: Tue 13 Dec 2022 07:07:59 AM PST
Group : Unspecified
Size : 685579
License : GPLv2
Signature : RSA/SHA256, Wed 20 Jul 2022 05:20:15 PM PDT, Key ID
f55ad3fb5323552a
Source RPM : conntrack-tools-1.4.6-4.fc37.src.rpm
Build Date : Wed 20 Jul 2022 04:44:59 PM PDT
Build Host : buildvm-x86-29.iad2.fedoraproject.org
Packager : Fedora Project
Vendor : Fedora Project
URL : http://conntrack-tools.netfilter.org/
Bug URL : https://bugz.fedoraproject.org/conntrack-tools
Summary : Manipulate netfilter connection tracking table and run
High Availability
Description :
With conntrack-tools you can setup a High Availability cluster and
synchronize conntrack state between multiple firewalls.

The conntrack-tools package contains two programs:
- conntrack: the command line interface to interact with the connection
tracking system.
- conntrackd: the connection tracking userspace daemon that can be used to
deploy highly available GNU/Linux firewalls and collect
statistics of the firewall use.

conntrack is used to search, list, inspect and maintain the netfilter
connection tracking subsystem of the Linux kernel.
Using conntrack, you can dump a list of all (or a filtered selection of)
currently tracked connections, delete connections from the state table,
and even add new ones.
In addition, you can also monitor connection tracking events, e.g.
show an event message (one line) per newly established connection.

-T

On 2023-02-18 20:14, T wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Ages ago someone in these parts mentioned that
> they did not like Linux because they could not
> figure out who was using a particular port.

</lurk>

Nice!

That leaves only ~30 other reasons to not like Linux (at least for a
desktop environment).

<lurk>

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

Alan Browne used his or her keyboard to write :

> That leaves only ~30 other reasons to not like Linux (at least for a
> desktop environment).

At least Windows works nice with Linux and even includes the shells.
A dual boot Windows:Linux is the best of both worlds, in fact.

But the best part about Linux is that it's not the infamous walled garden.
In fact, Linux is the exact opposite of the insurmountable walled garden.

Which is why Linux can do everything you'd ever want it to do. For free.
The walled garden can't do anything outside the walled garden. At all.

On 2023-02-19 12:55, FromTheRafters wrote:
> Alan Browne used his or her keyboard to write :
>
>> That leaves only ~30 other reasons to not like Linux (at least for a
>> desktop environment).
>
> At least Windows works nice with Linux and even includes the shells.
> A dual boot Windows:Linux is the best of both worlds, in fact.
>
> But the best part about Linux is that it's not the infamous walled garden.
> In fact, Linux is the exact opposite of the insurmountable walled garden.
>
> Which is why Linux can do everything you'd ever want it to do. For free.
> The walled garden can't do anything outside the walled garden. At all.

Unlike Linux/Android, all my devices that I use daily are seamlessly
integrated and slickly so. Indeed began using a nice new app today that
I believe a client will enjoy integrating into our ongoing workflow.

And I network my Mac and share files with other devices quite easily
while controlling access narrowly (much as one does in Windows or Linux).

So, your "walled garden" nonsense has withered to death...

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

Alan Browne used his or her keyboard to write :

> Unlike Linux/Android, all my devices that I use daily are seamlessly
> integrated and slickly so.

How is Linux or Windows not already seamlessly integrated with Android?

> Indeed began using a nice new app today that
> I believe a client will enjoy integrating into our ongoing workflow.

I hope your client aren't clueless enough to buy iOS devices, none of which
integrate with anything outside Apple's unsurmountable walled garden.
> And I network my Mac and share files with other devices quite easily
> while controlling access narrowly (much as one does in Windows or Linux).

Only stupid people say a Mac integrates well outside the walled garden.
> So, your "walled garden" nonsense has withered to death...

It's only trolls like you & Trump who love to build walls like Apple does.

On 2023-02-19 14:06, FromTheRafters wrote:
> Alan Browne used his or her keyboard to write :
>
>> Unlike Linux/Android, all my devices that I use daily are seamlessly
>> integrated and slickly so.
>
> How is Linux or Windows not already seamlessly integrated with Android?

Simplest example are Apple apps such as Notes, Reminders and Message
(and others) all using the connective tissue of iCloud. This experience
began to get very slick and smooth about 10 years ago and is always
improving. Latest app being Freeform which I'll begin using more this
coming week.

There is nothing as cross device seamless as the few apps I mention
above in the Linux/Windows/Android world with the sole exception (maybe)
of calendars and maybe e-mail via IMAP.

>> Indeed began using a nice new app today that I believe a client will
>> enjoy integrating into our ongoing workflow.
>
> I hope your client aren't clueless enough to buy iOS devices, none of which
> integrate with anything outside Apple's unsurmountable walled garden.

My clients, being very able, intelligent and successful business people
run their company administration and day to day on Apple systems. There
are a bunch of Android tablets there too to support equipment from a
vendor who doesn't provide his app on iPad OS.

>> And I network my Mac and share files with other devices quite easily
>> while controlling access narrowly (much as one does in Windows or Linux).
>
> Only stupid people say a Mac integrates well outside the walled garden.

Only people who do it all of the time know that to be a fact.

>> So, your "walled garden" nonsense has withered to death...
>
> It's only trolls like you & Trump who love to build walls like Apple does.

Bringing up Trump as an insult against me is pretty lame. But then you
do you - Lame fits you like a glove.

Keep on your walled garden myth too.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2/19/23 09:48, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-02-18 20:14, T wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Ages ago someone in these parts mentioned that
>> they did not like Linux because they could not
>> figure out who was using a particular port.
>
> </lurk>
>
> Nice!
>
> That leaves only ~30 other reasons to not like Linux (at least for a
> desktop environment).

Linux desktops (not gnome) are now quite polished. But
your are correct: 29 of those 30 reason s are "I can't
learn anything new". The remaining 1 of 30 is that
M$ has won the applications war and your can't get
the software you want to run on Linux.

The vast majority of my customer do not even know
what OS they are running. They only know the names
of the software. Well except the name of their
browser, which they routinely call "Google".

Of the 28 years doing this, I have only found a small
number of business that benefited from a Linux server
and zero that could use Linux workstations due to the
lack of software.

:'(

> <lurk>
>

On 2/19/2023 1:18 PM, Alan Browne wrote:

>
> Unlike Linux/Android, all my devices that I use daily are
> seamlessly integrated and slickly so.  Indeed began using a
> nice new app today that I believe a client will enjoy
> integrating into our ongoing workflow.

A dick-wagging contest on teh USENET ?

Cool.

That's never happened before.

Paul

On 2023-02-20 01:44, Paul wrote:
> On 2/19/2023 1:18 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>
>> Unlike Linux/Android, all my devices that I use daily are seamlessly
>> integrated and slickly so.  Indeed began using a
>> nice new app today that I believe a client will enjoy integrating into
>> our ongoing workflow.
>
> A dick-wagging contest on teh USENET ?
>
> Cool.
>
> That's never happened before.
Never, ever :-D

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2/19/2023 7:28 PM, T wrote:
> On 2/19/23 09:48, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-02-18 20:14, T wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Ages ago someone in these parts mentioned that
>>> they did not like Linux because they could not
>>> figure out who was using a particular port.
>>
>> </lurk>
>>
>> Nice!
>>
>> That leaves only ~30 other reasons to not like Linux (at least for a desktop environment).
>
>
> Linux desktops (not gnome) are now quite polished.  But
> your are correct: 29 of those 30 reason s are "I can't
> learn anything new".  The remaining 1 of 30 is that
> M$ has won the applications war and your can't get
> the software you want to run on Linux.
>
> The vast majority of my customer do not even know
> what OS they are running.  They only know the names
> of the software.  Well except the name of their
> browser, which they routinely call "Google".
>
> Of the 28 years doing this, I have only found a small
> number of business that benefited from a Linux server
> and zero that could use Linux workstations due to the
> lack of software.
>
> :'(

To a certain extent, it doesn't matter what platform you use.

Talent, finds a way.

That's how it was at my work.

When the $2,000,000 worth of rented CAD software wasn't
up to snuff, *all* the engineers I worked with started
programming in PERL, to fill in the gaps. It was hella
funny, because some of them weren't really programming
material, but they still managed to get the job done.

And that's an example of Talent Finding A Way.

On my very first job at work, as a newly minted grad,
there were no computers! Imagine my shocked face.
I did my first design, using my programmable calculator
used in university. Nobody whined there about anything,
just nose to grindstone, git-er done.

Then, my next job, was working in a group *designing* computers.
The irony. Ouch.

Paul

On 2/19/23 18:48, Paul wrote:
> On 2/19/2023 7:28 PM, T wrote:
>> On 2/19/23 09:48, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-18 20:14, T wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Ages ago someone in these parts mentioned that
>>>> they did not like Linux because they could not
>>>> figure out who was using a particular port.
>>>
>>> </lurk>
>>>
>>> Nice!
>>>
>>> That leaves only ~30 other reasons to not like Linux (at least for a
>>> desktop environment).
>>
>>
>> Linux desktops (not gnome) are now quite polished.  But
>> your are correct: 29 of those 30 reason s are "I can't
>> learn anything new".  The remaining 1 of 30 is that
>> M$ has won the applications war and your can't get
>> the software you want to run on Linux.
>>
>> The vast majority of my customer do not even know
>> what OS they are running.  They only know the names
>> of the software.  Well except the name of their
>> browser, which they routinely call "Google".
>>
>> Of the 28 years doing this, I have only found a small
>> number of business that benefited from a Linux server
>> and zero that could use Linux workstations due to the
>> lack of software.
>>
>> :'(
>
> To a certain extent, it doesn't matter what platform you use.
>
> Talent, finds a way.
>
> That's how it was at my work.
>
> When the $2,000,000 worth of rented CAD software wasn't
> up to snuff, *all* the engineers I worked with started
> programming in PERL, to fill in the gaps. It was hella
> funny, because some of them weren't really programming
> material, but they still managed to get the job done.
>
> And that's an example of Talent Finding A Way.
>
> On my very first job at work, as a newly minted grad,
> there were no computers! Imagine my shocked face.
> I did my first design, using my programmable calculator
> used in university. Nobody whined there about anything,
> just nose to grindstone, git-er done.
>
> Then, my next job, was working in a group *designing* computers.
> The irony. Ouch.
>
>    Paul

Excellent point!

Alan Browne used his or her keyboard to write :

>> How is Linux or Windows not already seamlessly integrated with Android?
>
> Simplest example are Apple apps such as Notes, Reminders and Message
> (and others) all using the connective tissue of iCloud.

The iCloud? Are you nuts?
Putting everything you own on display on the Internet is NOT connectivity.
It's stupidity.

Do you know why Apple didn't provide universal sd cards in the iPhone?
The answer is Apple wants you to put everything you own on the iCloud.

You don't realize the iCloud is an inherent component of the walled garden.

> This experience
> began to get very slick and smooth about 10 years ago and is always
> improving. Latest app being Freeform which I'll begin using more this
> coming week.

Notice it's only "slick" inside the high walls of Apple's walled garden.

> There is nothing as cross device seamless as the few apps I mention
> above in the Linux/Windows/Android world with the sole exception (maybe)
> of calendars and maybe e-mail via IMAP.

You have never connected Android to Windows or Linux as it's seamless.

>>> Indeed began using a nice new app today that I believe a client will
>>> enjoy integrating into our ongoing workflow.
>>
>> I hope your client aren't clueless enough to buy iOS devices, none of which
>> integrate with anything outside Apple's unsurmountable walled garden.
>
> My clients, being very able, intelligent and successful business people
> run their company administration and day to day on Apple systems.
> There are a bunch of Android tablets there too to support equipment from a
> vendor who doesn't provide his app on iPad OS.

I hope it's not a browser because all iOS browsers suffer from WebKit.
You can't even put the Tor browser on iOS because of WebKit.
https://support.torproject.org/tormobile/tormobile-3/

It says WebKit doesn't have anywhere near the security your customers need.
Worse, WebKit is almost all of the attacks on iOS (and macOS too).
https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ncas/current-activity/2023/02/14/apple-releases-security-updates-multiple-products

And Apple only supports _one_ operating system version.
That's iOS 16, not anything else. And macOS 13. Nothing else.

So your customers have to buy a new iOS & macOS whereas Windows and Linux
users can put Windows 10 or 11 and any Linux on almost any older device.

Worse, Apple has been telling lies all these years that they fully patched
those older devices, but in truth Apple was only recently forced by
security researchers to admit it because researchers figured Apple out.
https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases

What Apple was doing was "saying" they fully patched older device, but what
Apple did was put one or two of many patches just so they could "say" that.

I can tell you'll say that's a lie but we on Windows/Linux read the news.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

I hope you put a non WebKit non-Apple browser on those devices, or your
customers are subject at this very moment to a dozen zero days a year.

Like CVE-2023-23529 just a week ago (almost always they are in WebKit).
https://www.securityweek.com/apple-patches-exploited-ios-vulnerability-in-old-iphones/

>>> And I network my Mac and share files with other devices quite easily
>>> while controlling access narrowly (much as one does in Windows or Linux).
>>
>> Only stupid people say a Mac integrates well outside the walled garden.
>
> Only people who do it all of the time know that to be a fact.

I'm not saying Apple doesn't make things "slick" inside the walled garden.

But if the only way to make it "slick" is to use the iCloud, it's not
slick. It's stupid. Same if you used Microsoft's cloud to do everything.

Nothing that requires your personal data to be transported to any Internet
based cloud is "slick" unless it's your OwnCloud on your own network.

Which Linux has no problems with (although I'm not sure about Windows).
>>> So, your "walled garden" nonsense has withered to death...
>>
>> It's only trolls like you & Trump who love to build walls like Apple does.
>
> Bringing up Trump as an insult against me is pretty lame. But then you
> do you - Lame fits you like a glove.

It's not lame when Trump fits you like a glove because you want to make
apple great again by lying about Apple's known lack of interoperability.

> Keep on your walled garden myth too.

As Trump promotes the myth he won the election even though everyone else
knows he didn't, you promote the myth the walled garden doesn't exist, even
though everyone who knows anything about Apple knows it's quite strong.

On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 5:58:12 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> That's never happened before.
> Never, ever :-D

Especially never instituted by a Trump like Apple owner who is trolling us
by claiming the walled garden doesn't exist and it never has ever existed.

He wants to tell us our stuff doesn't work because it won't work with his
walled garden (which is what Apple designed the walled garden to be).

And yet, Linux, Android and Windows work quite well together, don't they.

On 2023-02-19 19:44, Paul wrote:
> On 2/19/2023 1:18 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>
>> Unlike Linux/Android, all my devices that I use daily are seamlessly
>> integrated and slickly so.  Indeed began using a
>> nice new app today that I believe a client will enjoy integrating into
>> our ongoing workflow.
>
> A dick-wagging contest on teh USENET ?

Does look that way - but it was just a defense against a dick.

Apologies for stirring up the troll.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-02-19 19:28, T wrote:
> On 2/19/23 09:48, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-02-18 20:14, T wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Ages ago someone in these parts mentioned that
>>> they did not like Linux because they could not
>>> figure out who was using a particular port.
>>
>> </lurk>
>>
>> Nice!
>>
>> That leaves only ~30 other reasons to not like Linux (at least for a
>> desktop environment).
>
>
> Linux desktops (not gnome) are now quite polished.  But
> your are correct: 29 of those 30 reason s are "I can't
> learn anything new".  The remaining 1 of 30 is that
> M$ has won the applications war and your can't get
> the software you want to run on Linux.

I don't think the learning anything new has much to do with it. More
that the early years of Linux were harder to implement things for the
average computer user - by that time most "average" people could do
basics like install the OS on a new computer - because MS made that
process easy enough. MS were a decade+ ahead.

On apps, yep, the productivity apps, esp. Word and Excel coupled to
creativity apps (such as Photoshop) are really what made Linux desktop
unappealing to most people. OpenOffice worked well enough but was not
easily compatible with large co. operations.

Personally I've always felt Linux was quite clunky - recently using
Ubuntu which isn't bad - but I no longer have use for that either.

> The vast majority of my customer do not even know
> what OS they are running.  They only know the names
> of the software.  Well except the name of their
> browser, which they routinely call "Google".

I'm convinced that 25% or more of people do nothing on their computers
beyond the browser - so from that POV, the OS is meaningless.

> Of the 28 years doing this, I have only found a small
> number of business that benefited from a Linux server
> and zero that could use Linux workstations due to the
> lack of software.

That's part of it (though I've worked with and for a lot of businesses
that had some Linux servers. A client (US government facility) was
miffed that we didn't have Linux API's for our product. (Which used a
Windows server in one part and proprietary OS in another).

Some European governments mandate Linux. This German state is
transitioning:
https://medium.com/geekculture/german-state-abandons-windows-for-linux-market-mad-house-92d73ab8fcd7

I'm sure MS is not trembling.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-02-19 21:48, Paul wrote:
> On 2/19/2023 7:28 PM, T wrote:

>> Of the 28 years doing this, I have only found a small
>> number of business that benefited from a Linux server
>> and zero that could use Linux workstations due to the
>> lack of software.

<s>

> On my very first job at work, as a newly minted grad,
> there were no computers! Imagine my shocked face.
> I did my first design, using my programmable calculator
> used in university. Nobody whined there about anything,
> just nose to grindstone, git-er done.
>
> Then, my next job, was working in a group *designing* computers.
> The irony. Ouch.

My first "serious" job was assisting an engineer who wrote navigation
s/w for military aircraft. All in assembler.

Him: Mechanical engineer.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote in
news:k5OIL.1120244$vBI8.884762@fx15.iad:

> On 2023-02-19 19:28, T wrote:
>> On 2/19/23 09:48, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-18 20:14, T wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Ages ago someone in these parts mentioned that
>>>> they did not like Linux because they could not
>>>> figure out who was using a particular port.
>>>
>>> </lurk>
>>>
>>> Nice!
>>>
>>> That leaves only ~30 other reasons to not like Linux (at
>>> least for a desktop environment).
>>
>>
>> Linux desktops (not gnome) are now quite polished.  But
>> your are correct: 29 of those 30 reason s are "I can't
>> learn anything new".  The remaining 1 of 30 is that
>> M$ has won the applications war and your can't get
>> the software you want to run on Linux.
>
> I don't think the learning anything new has much to do with
> it. More that the early years of Linux were harder to
> implement things for the average computer user - by that
> time most "average" people could do basics like install the
> OS on a new computer - because MS made that process easy
> enough. MS were a decade+ ahead.
>
> On apps, yep, the productivity apps, esp. Word and Excel
> coupled to creativity apps (such as Photoshop) are really
> what made Linux desktop unappealing to most people.
> OpenOffice worked well enough but was not easily compatible
> with large co. operations.
>
> Personally I've always felt Linux was quite clunky -
> recently using Ubuntu which isn't bad - but I no longer
> have use for that either.

The worst is trying to troubleshoot an issue...especially with help from Linux-based
newsgroups.

The condescendig attitudes and insults hurled at you just because you used the 'non-
Linux' term for something, or because you didn't want to spend 8 hours searching the
web for answers all the while typing out cryptic commands rife with command-line
paramters that you struggle with to get correct, for hours on end with no solution is
sight!!

On 20 Feb 2023, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> posted some news
<news:08OIL.22457$Kqu2.337@fx01.iad>:

> My first "serious" job was assisting an engineer who wrote navigation
> s/w for military aircraft. All in assembler.

If you don't know the difference between an assembly language and an
assembler, then it's more likely that you didn't do what you claim you did.

Same with your incorrect claim that Apple's walled garden is a myth.
You're on the wrong newsgroup for all those lies to be believed here.

Go to an Apple newsgroup where those religious fanatics will love you.

On 2023-02-20 13:02, rdb wrote:
> On 20 Feb 2023, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> posted some news
> <news:08OIL.22457$Kqu2.337@fx01.iad>:
>
>> My first "serious" job was assisting an engineer who wrote navigation
>> s/w for military aircraft. All in assembler. >
> If you don't know the difference between an assembly language and an
> assembler, then it's more likely that you didn't do what you claim you did.

It's more likely that you're chomping at the bit a little hard.

We always referred to it as "assembler" w/o other qualification. At the
time that was hp-2100 assembler. I was also quite proficient in 6800
(in college we used Motorola Exorcisor lab gear) and 6502/10 at the time.

And to put a point on it an assembler converts mnemonics, constants and
symbols to machine code, so IMO calling it assembly "language" is at
best, awkward, as it is different architecture to architecture.

In Uni I also did IBM-360 assembler but never applied it to anything.

Others?

8085 (In flight data recording system - lots of inputs from analog and
digital devices).

Cosmac 1802 - didn't program much in it, but did some minor mods to the
code that someone else had done. (Nav sensor).

8086 of course (linked to Turbo Pascal) - serial data, time, and task
control were all in assembler. Flight test display and recorder.

8087 (experiments).

TMS-320-C40 (rt synthesis of radar signals - 100,000 interrupts per s.)

Probably missed a couple. But as machines got more and more powerful,
the need to use assembler rolled off pretty quick in the 90's. One of
our contracts stipulated a maximum permitted amount of assembler code
and as I recall it none of the post-start code was in assembler.

I've dabbled in ARM code on a rasp Pi of late but I am far from
proficient and really have no need to do it. RISC curious.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-02-20 12:47, DanS wrote:

>
> The worst is trying to troubleshoot an issue...especially with help from Linux-based
> newsgroups.
>
> The condescendig attitudes and insults hurled at you just because you used the 'non-
> Linux' term for something,

.... something like using the wrong word on a serious sail boaters tub.
You'd think the boat would sink if you used the word "right" or "rope"
instead of "line".

> or because you didn't want to spend 8 hours searching the
> web for answers all the while typing out cryptic commands rife with command-line
> paramters that you struggle with to get correct, for hours on end with no solution is
> sight!!

Same for Mac command line (which hews very close to Linux because...) -
at least these days (like for Linux) it's easy to cheat and just write a
question to Google and something will pop up that's close to what you
need. Just modify paths, file names, etc. to fit.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-02-20 20:10, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-02-20 12:47, DanS wrote:
>
>>
>> The worst is trying to troubleshoot an issue...especially with help
>> from Linux-based newsgroups.
>>
>> The condescendig attitudes and insults hurled at you just because you
>> used the 'non-Linux' term for something,
>
> ... something like using the wrong word on a serious sail boaters tub.
> You'd think the boat would sink if you used the word "right" or "rope"
> instead of "line".

Not everybody is insulting.

This is Usenet, some people seem to love hurling insults, no matter what
group.

Try to post an amateur photo to a photo group.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-02-20 14:17, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-02-20 20:10, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-02-20 12:47, DanS wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The worst is trying to troubleshoot an issue...especially with help
>>> from Linux-based newsgroups.
>>>
>>> The condescendig attitudes and insults hurled at you just because you
>>> used the 'non-Linux' term for something,
>>
>> ... something like using the wrong word on a serious sail boaters tub.
>> You'd think the boat would sink if you used the word "right" or "rope"
>> instead of "line".
>
> Not everybody is insulting.
>
> This is Usenet, some people seem to love hurling insults, no matter what
> group.
>
> Try to post an amateur photo to a photo group.

We used to have a weekly round on the 35mm group called the "shootin".

There were cruddy photos and some stellar ones. But at least it got
people off of their duffs and out shooting to a theme once per week.
And due to that some people's photography improved - including my own.

And of course there were some in the group who refused to participate
and then ridiculed the entire thing and those who participated...

Usenet will save the world!

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2/20/2023 1:02 PM, rdb wrote:
> On 20 Feb 2023, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> posted some news
> <news:08OIL.22457$Kqu2.337@fx01.iad>:
>
>> My first "serious" job was assisting an engineer who wrote navigation
>> s/w for military aircraft. All in assembler.
>
> If you don't know the difference between an assembly language and an
> assembler, then it's more likely that you didn't do what you claim you did.
>
> Same with your incorrect claim that Apple's walled garden is a myth.
> You're on the wrong newsgroup for all those lies to be believed here.
>
> Go to an Apple newsgroup where those religious fanatics will love you.
>

That's what it was called, writing in assembler.

I did some of that.

It comes with the territory of making IOP boards
(board that does computer I/O, with its own embedded
processor).

Paul

On 2/20/2023 12:47 PM, DanS wrote:

>
> The worst is trying to troubleshoot an issue...especially with help from Linux-based
> newsgroups.
>
> The condescendig attitudes and insults hurled at you just because you used the 'non-
> Linux' term for something, or because you didn't want to spend 8 hours searching the
> web for answers all the while typing out cryptic commands rife with command-line
> paramters that you struggle with to get correct, for hours on end with no solution is
> sight!!

Some individuals bring their own baggage with them.
Of course it's not going to end well.

And not everything is easy to debug either (Snaps).

With the amount of virtualization going on, we are slowly
losing the ability to develop accurate pictures of what is
going on. Like the first problem, is a lack of good
block diagrams, to be used as part of analysis of symptoms.
Microsoft has a diagram for early HyperV, but there is nothing
which is current and includes WSL and WSLg (which uses Terminal Server).

Paul

On 2/20/23 09:05, FromTheRafters wrote:
> you promote the myth the walled garden doesn't exist, even
> though everyone who knows anything about Apple knows it's quite strong.
It is beyond me how much money folks pay for IOs.
Android is a bazillion dollars cheaper and does
almost all the same things. Almost.
Maybe something in the water?