What happened to serial numbers or passwords?

What is this damn complicated PIN crap?

What is so magic about a PIN - whatever the hell that is - over a
password or a serial number?

All of a sudden you have to be a tech to god damn buy a comp and get
it working?

I'm stupid. I'm still using Windows 7. What the hell is this PIN
thing?

On 9/14/2023 10:04 PM, Vic wrote:
> What happened to serial numbers or passwords?
>
> What is this damn complicated PIN crap?
>
> What is so magic about a PIN - whatever the hell that is - over a
> password or a serial number?
>
> All of a sudden you have to be a tech to god damn buy a comp and get
> it working?
>
> I'm stupid. I'm still using Windows 7. What the hell is this PIN
> thing?
>

The distinction they draw here, is for Enterprise users on a domain.
On a domain, the password is the same everywhere. Which means once
you know the password, you can get in anywhere.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/identity-protection/hello-for-business/hello-why-pin-is-better-than-password

For a home user (one not using a domain server), the password
for an account, could be different on every machine.

Vic Machine1 Password = Aardvark Pin = 1234 Not much difference really...
Vic Machine2 Password = Xylophone Pin = 4321 Each scheme has the same security
(you can make PINs longer if you want)

On the Enterprise case

Vic Machine1 Password = 12345Sept Pin = 1234 Now, the authentication is machine dependent
Vic Machine2 Password = 12345Sept Pin = 4321 by using the PIN, and the user has to remember these too.
And real people, won't use different pins on every machine.
That would be nuts.

You're not missing much here. This isn't a cure for cancer.

Paul

On Thu, 14 Sep 2023 23:43:46 -0400, Paul wrote:

> On 9/14/2023 10:04 PM, Vic wrote:
>> What happened to serial numbers or passwords?
>>
>> What is this damn complicated PIN crap?
>>
>> What is so magic about a PIN - whatever the hell that is - over a
>> password or a serial number?
>>
>> All of a sudden you have to be a tech to god damn buy a comp and get
>> it working?
>>
>> I'm stupid. I'm still using Windows 7. What the hell is this PIN
>> thing?
>>
>
> The distinction they draw here, is for Enterprise users on a domain.
> On a domain, the password is the same everywhere. Which means once
> you know the password, you can get in anywhere.
>
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/identity-protection/hello-for-business/hello-why-pin-is-better-than-password
>
> You're not missing much here. This isn't a cure for cancer.
>
> Paul

It ain't a cure for anything. It's a cause for more aggravation. A
Redmond speciality.

Absolutely flipp'ng ridiculous.

Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
overly fat wallet.

"Vic" <vic@smurfing.com> wrote

| Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
| damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
| overly fat wallet.

The undeclared purpose here is that PIN stands for
personal ID -- like you use at an ATM. It's all part of
MS getting you accustomed to renting your computer
functionality from them.

In the case above it was a used machine, probably
from a business. They seller neglected to remove the
restriction. I have Win10 and 11 and neither has any
password. A password has always been optional. If
you get a screen to enter one you just leave it blank.
I set up a BIOS password on some machines. The reason
for that is that I trust the woman I live with, but if
someone breaks in and steals computers then I want to
have time to go online and change passwords before
the crook finds them on the stolen hard disk.

I also heard that Win11 would require me to create a
Microsoft account. But that seems to be a lie. It's
like cellphone companies who tell you that you have to
have a gmail address for an Android phone. You only
need that if you want to buy crap apps at the "Windows
Store". When I updated 10 to 11 I unplugged the network
cable while the "offline updater" ran. Afterward it activated
with no problems and never bugged me about setting up
an account.

Which is not to say you should get 10/11. It's a broken
spyware system that requires a pile of tweaking tools and
arcane adjustments to achieve reasonable civility. Win7
is also a bit of a mess, but not as bad as 10/11. Microsoft
have very gradually been imposing restrictions and claiming
ownership. They're trying to sell Windows as a "bring-
your-own-hardware service". They now even describe
Windows as a service, justifying spying on you. At the
same time, the system has become increasingly bloated over
the years, with no housecleaning. So at this point a system
that used to require 1 GB of space is likely to require more
like 20+. My compressed disk images are about 17GB. Just
the updater from 10 to 11, with little noticeable difference
between the two, is over 5 GB compresed!

So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.

In message <ue1i18$37tmt$1@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 08:16:53,
Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> writes
[]
> So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
>have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
>hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
>up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.
>
Or at least image it frequently. (Macrium 5 or 6 are fine with W7,
though I'm not sure there's any advantage in not using a later version -
I've just got Macrium on a CD against the time I need to use it, and
haven't made a new one. [5 and 6 actually fit on a mini-CD, which I
like.]
>
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an empty
desk mean ?

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 08:16:53 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

> "Vic" <vic@smurfing.com> wrote
>
>| Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
>| damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
>| overly fat wallet.
>
> The undeclared purpose here is that PIN stands for
> personal ID -- like you use at an ATM. It's all part of
> MS getting you accustomed to renting your computer
> functionality from them.

Yeah, I read about that nonsense a while back. I think there will be a
way around that thanks to the hacker community. If this garbage ever
comes to fruition, I absolutely will change over to another OS if
necessary.

> In the case above it was a used machine, probably
> from a business. They seller neglected to remove the
> restriction. I have Win10 and 11 and neither has any
> password. A password has always been optional. If
> you get a screen to enter one you just leave it blank.
> I set up a BIOS password on some machines. The reason
> for that is that I trust the woman I live with, but if
> someone breaks in and steals computers then I want to
> have time to go online and change passwords before
> the crook finds them on the stolen hard disk.

I tried full disk encryption on my XP comp a while back. It was too
big a problem for my way of doing things. Besides, I really don't
keep important info on any of my drives. I have five externals. They
are full of movies, vids and music. I keep personal info on TrueCrypt
volumes - containing looong and involved passphrases.

> I also heard that Win11 would require me to create a
> Microsoft account. But that seems to be a lie. It's
> like cellphone companies who tell you that you have to
> have a gmail address for an Android phone. You only
> need that if you want to buy crap apps at the "Windows
> Store". When I updated 10 to 11 I unplugged the network
> cable while the "offline updater" ran. Afterward it activated
> with no problems and never bugged me about setting up
> an account.
> Which is not to say you should get 10/11. It's a broken
> spyware system that requires a pile of tweaking tools and
> arcane adjustments to achieve reasonable civility. Win7
> is also a bit of a mess, but not as bad as 10/11.

Win 7 is a pain in the arse. The XP menu system is so simple and
direct to use. With 7, you have to dig through layers of menus to find
what is right in front of you in XP.

> Microsoft
> have very gradually been imposing restrictions and claiming
> ownership. They're trying to sell Windows as a "bring-
> your-own-hardware service". They now even describe
> Windows as a service, justifying spying on you. At the
> same time, the system has become increasingly bloated over
> the years, with no housecleaning. So at this point a system
> that used to require 1 GB of space is likely to require more
> like 20+. My compressed disk images are about 17GB. Just
> the updater from 10 to 11, with little noticeable difference
> between the two, is over 5 GB compresed!

Yeah, that's insane. As far as spyware goes, I operate in a type of
sandbox which keeps the C: clear of any downloaded crapola. When
using my browser, I constantly keep the cookie menu open and remove
them when changing sites. I keep a software firewall blocking the Web
from programs who have no business trying to access it. Ain't no tech,
I just do the simple stuff. I think I'm doing good because I haven't
had a single spam message sent to my e-mail account in years or popup
crap showing on my comp.

> So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
> have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
> hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
> up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.

My 2 XP machines are older than that and still going. I use Hard Disk
Sentinel to keep watch on the health of my drives.

It's sad what the greedy bastards like MS, Google and others of that
ilk have done with the Internet. It's even more scary what they're
trying to do politically to America.

That's about it. I get headaches and a bleeding nose when I think this
much. :o)

In message <1xdjy5uwr5sts.dlu0t4omgnlh.dlg@40tude.net> at Fri, 15 Sep
2023 08:26:06, Vic <vic@smurfing.com> writes
[]
>Win 7 is a pain in the arse. The XP menu system is so simple and
>direct to use. With 7, you have to dig through layers of menus to find
>what is right in front of you in XP.

Care to give an example? I too have found each change - 98SElite to XP,
XP to 7 (and 7 to 10 when I had to use 10), tedious, but I'm mostly used
to 7 now, and I _think_ there might be things in 7 that are easier than
they were in XP (though it's sufficiently long since I was on XP that
I'd probably be hard pressed to think of a specific). [Remember we're in
the 7 'group.]
[]
>Yeah, that's insane. As far as spyware goes, I operate in a type of
>sandbox which keeps the C: clear of any downloaded crapola. When
>using my browser, I constantly keep the cookie menu open and remove
>them when changing sites. I keep a software firewall blocking the Web

Sounds a good policy, though a lot of work (and presumably you don't
ever have more than one site open, i. e. you don't use tabs).

>from programs who have no business trying to access it. Ain't no tech,
>I just do the simple stuff. I think I'm doing good because I haven't
>had a single spam message sent to my e-mail account in years or popup
>crap showing on my comp.

Can't remember getting any spam messages this year - if I have, it's
less than 5, and they're obvious. (On my landline, I've sometimes had
more than 5 in a day of the "this is bank [or Visa] security" type!)
>
>> So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
>> have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
>> hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
>> up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.
>
>My 2 XP machines are older than that and still going. I use Hard Disk
>Sentinel to keep watch on the health of my drives.

HDs are strange things; some seem to run for ever. (I use HD Tune if I'm
ever concerned.)
>
>It's sad what the greedy bastards like MS, Google and others of that
>ilk have done with the Internet. It's even more scary what they're

Agreed. I guess it was inevitable, but indeed sad.

>trying to do politically to America.

And of course washing over to UK.
>
>That's about it. I get headaches and a bleeding nose when I think this
>much. :o)

(-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Who's General Failure & why's he reading my disk? (Stolen from another .sig)

Vic <vic@smurfing.com> wrote:

> What happened to serial numbers or passwords?
>
> What is this damn complicated PIN crap?
>
> What is so magic about a PIN - whatever the hell that is - over a
> password or a serial number?
>
> All of a sudden you have to be a tech to god damn buy a comp and get
> it working?
>
> I'm stupid. I'm still using Windows 7. What the hell is this PIN
> thing?

There is an option to enhance the PIN to allow alphanumerics and
symbols. You can make a PIN look like a password.

https://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/set-alphanumeric-pin-on-windows-10/

That way, after including letters and symbols, you can make your Windows
password look like it was before.

I don't recall PIN showed up in Win 7, the newsgroup to which you
posted. Wasn't until Win 10 when I had to enter a numeric password, and
then go into settings to change it to include letters and symbols, so it
was the same I had before.

On 9/15/2023 8:16 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
> "Vic" <vic@smurfing.com> wrote
>
> | Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
> | damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
> | overly fat wallet.
>
> The undeclared purpose here is that PIN stands for
> personal ID -- like you use at an ATM. It's all part of
> MS getting you accustomed to renting your computer
> functionality from them.
>
> In the case above it was a used machine, probably
> from a business. They seller neglected to remove the
> restriction. I have Win10 and 11 and neither has any
> password. A password has always been optional. If
> you get a screen to enter one you just leave it blank.
> I set up a BIOS password on some machines. The reason
> for that is that I trust the woman I live with, but if
> someone breaks in and steals computers then I want to
> have time to go online and change passwords before
> the crook finds them on the stolen hard disk.
>
> I also heard that Win11 would require me to create a
> Microsoft account. But that seems to be a lie. It's
> like cellphone companies who tell you that you have to
> have a gmail address for an Android phone. You only
> need that if you want to buy crap apps at the "Windows
> Store". When I updated 10 to 11 I unplugged the network
> cable while the "offline updater" ran. Afterward it activated
> with no problems and never bugged me about setting up
> an account.
>
> Which is not to say you should get 10/11. It's a broken
> spyware system that requires a pile of tweaking tools and
> arcane adjustments to achieve reasonable civility. Win7
> is also a bit of a mess, but not as bad as 10/11. Microsoft
> have very gradually been imposing restrictions and claiming
> ownership. They're trying to sell Windows as a "bring-
> your-own-hardware service". They now even describe
> Windows as a service, justifying spying on you. At the
> same time, the system has become increasingly bloated over
> the years, with no housecleaning. So at this point a system
> that used to require 1 GB of space is likely to require more
> like 20+. My compressed disk images are about 17GB. Just
> the updater from 10 to 11, with little noticeable difference
> between the two, is over 5 GB compresed!
>
> So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
> have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
> hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
> up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.

On one occasion, I was blocked from forward progress
in an install, until entering an email address for an MSA.

A trick listed in the group a while back, was the usage of

a @ a.a # remove the space characters to use this...
# This is a "well-worn, fake" email address.

as that email ID has been presented to Microsoft thousands
of times, and the logic on the server rejects such an email
address and you are allowed to define a local one in its place.

There are other, more complicated schemes, for dropping to
a shell and using auxiliary control to defeat the feature.

My point in mentioning this, is the "pull the cable out" used
to work, but really, if they want an email address, they can
"just sit there and give you the finger". I've only seen that
the one time.

Paul

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote

| > So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
| >have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
| >hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
| >up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.
| >
| Or at least image it frequently.

That. too. But I see no reason to take chances. I bought
a 500 GB Samsung SSD last week for $40. At that price,
you can't afford not to buy them. :)

"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote

| On one occasion, I was blocked from forward progress
| in an install, until entering an email address for an MSA.
| | A trick listed in the group a while back, was the usage of
| | a @ a.a # remove the space characters to use this...
| # This is a "well-worn, fake" email address.
| | as that email ID has been presented to Microsoft thousands
| of times, and the logic on the server rejects such an email
| address and you are allowed to define a local one in its place.
|

I wonder what makes the difference. I would have expected
it to be standardized. The Win11 was updating a Win10
pre-installed on an Asus laptop. I haven't had to deal with MS
at all, except a very quick activation for 11.

I also have a favorite email address, which doesn't require
me to lie: nonep@rovided.com :)

Vic <vic@smurfing.com> wrote:

[About logging in with a PIN in Windows 10 and 11:]

> It ain't a cure for anything. It's a cause for more aggravation. A
> Redmond speciality.
>
> Absolutely flipp'ng ridiculous.
>
> Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
> damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
> overly fat wallet.

Relax! As Newyana2 and others mentioned, it's just *a* way to login
and it's optional.

As Newyana2 mentioned, you don't have to set *any* login security if
you don't want to. An 'empty'/null password is perfectly fine.

And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.

On 15 Sep 2023 18:19:13 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Vic <vic@smurfing.com> wrote:
>
> [About logging in with a PIN in Windows 10 and 11:]
>
>> It ain't a cure for anything. It's a cause for more aggravation. A
>> Redmond speciality.
>>
>> Absolutely flipp'ng ridiculous.
>>
>> Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
>> damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
>> overly fat wallet.
>
> Relax! As Newyana2 and others mentioned, it's just *a* way to login
> and it's optional.
>
> As Newyana2 mentioned, you don't have to set *any* login security if
> you don't want to. An 'empty'/null password is perfectly fine.
>
> And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
> Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.

I guess I'm dumb, but what the bleep is this"local account" I need and
why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
"account" nonsense.

"Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

| And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
| Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.

Yes, what the bleep is a local account. I'm officially
a user, if that's what you mean. It means nothing.

In message <hayw9p1jc5gj$.lcmg4d2q7gsl.dlg@40tude.net> at Fri, 15 Sep
2023 15:05:39, Vic <vic@smurfing.com> writes
[]
>why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
>just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
>"account" nonsense.

At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
default, I can't remember.

If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
name.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

a joke doesn't become a dad joke until it's full groan

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 00:10:48 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> In message <hayw9p1jc5gj$.lcmg4d2q7gsl.dlg@40tude.net> at Fri, 15 Sep
> 2023 15:05:39, Vic <vic@smurfing.com> writes
> []
>>why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
>>just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
>>"account" nonsense.
>
> At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
> default, I can't remember.
>
> If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
> your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
> needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
> name.

I still have no flipp'ng idea what you people are talking about with
this account stuff. I had both my XP and 7 machine built at a a local
shop. There is no password or "pin" I need to get into 7. Although I
do know I have a choice with 7 of having the thing locked with a
password, which I choose not to do.

I do know about Admin accounts - which are a frek'ng pain in the arse
with 7, but somehow my 7 box is set up so even though I sometimes get
the message it cannot do something because it needs admin rights, if I
click OK, it still does it without me going into the Admin setup. I
guess the store who set it up eliminated a bunch of Admin problems for
me.

This Admin crap may be a helpful and protective thingy for techs and
wannabe tekkies, but for the average dummy who only wants to turn
things on and click on the mouse to make things work, all this
"security" crap is a p.i.a. Let us lusers pick our own security
measures that we can understand and easily use.

Does anyone know what the hull I'm talking about, because I certainly
don't know what the hull all of you are talking about.

And on top of that, I got the gdmn headache back again because of this
"account" stuff - and I don't wanna heear anymore about PINS, dammitt!

On 9/15/2023 6:37 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
> "Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote
>
> | And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
> | Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.
>
> Yes, what the bleep is a local account. I'm officially
> a user, if that's what you mean. It means nothing.

A local account is not a domain account.

If you were at work, you could sit at any PC, log in as
Maya and the same password would work everywhere. The
"Roaming" section of your profile, would be staged on a
departmental server. This provides a uniform environment,
and might even make file sharing work better.

when you're at home, without a server, without a defined
Domain to log into (server-verified password), then
each PC keeps the local password.

Machine1 Maya 12345678
Machine2 Maya 87654321

The SID (Security ID) on each Maya account is different.
They aren't really the same account after all. That's
why you may notice some peculiar things happen, when
dealing with an NTFS drive from a second PC, on your
primary machine. The File Explorer may do an Implicit TakeOwn
(File Explorer shows an advancing green bar while it runs),
and add a SID to each file in your home directory, allowing
two machine OSes to have authority to view the profile folder
of your account.

So yes, there are local accounts. They're local accounts,
because you don't have a Domain.

Microsoft tried to shoehorn "fake Domain" behavior into
your home computer room. But there are some rough edges,
and it may take a user a while to figure out exactly
what those rough edges are.

An MSA account, is similar to a Domain account, in the
sense that the password is the same everywhere, and it's
a "long and strong" password, to prevent Internet hijinks.
You definitely do not use a "12345" password on an MSA.
Because you may be logging into the Microsoft server, and
getting your Bitlocker recovery key from it.

Paul

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 00:10:48 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>In message <hayw9p1jc5gj$.lcmg4d2q7gsl.dlg@40tude.net> at Fri, 15 Sep
>2023 15:05:39, Vic <vic@smurfing.com> writes
>[]
>>why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
>>just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
>>"account" nonsense.
>
>At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
>default, I can't remember.
>
>If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
>your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
>needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
>name.

You can also see your account name at any time by running "whoami" in a Command
Prompt. (no quotes)

On 9/15/2023 10:46 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 00:10:48 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <hayw9p1jc5gj$.lcmg4d2q7gsl.dlg@40tude.net> at Fri, 15 Sep
>> 2023 15:05:39, Vic <vic@smurfing.com> writes
>> []
>>> why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
>>> just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
>>> "account" nonsense.
>>
>> At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
>> default, I can't remember.
>>
>> If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
>> your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
>> needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
>> name.
>
> You can also see your account name at any time by running "whoami" in a Command
> Prompt. (no quotes)
>

You can also use the command, to tell if you're elevated.

whoami /user /priv

If the privilege section contains around 24 items, you're elevated.
If the privilege section contains around 5 items, you're not elevated.

It may not be intended for that purpose, but that's what
I notice is different.

If you enable the administrator account, and log in as "real administrator",
it should be similar to the elevated version of a user (a user
belonging to the administrator group).

Paul

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 21:46:45 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 00:10:48 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <hayw9p1jc5gj$.lcmg4d2q7gsl.dlg@40tude.net> at Fri, 15 Sep
>>2023 15:05:39, Vic <vic@smurfing.com> writes
>>[]
>>>why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
>>>just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
>>>"account" nonsense.
>>
>>At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
>>default, I can't remember.
>>
>>If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
>>your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
>>needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
>>name.
>
>You can also see your account name at any time by running "whoami" in a Command
>Prompt. (no quotes)

That just seems to pop up the name of the computer and the user name I
set up. My dog is on the MSA account. Back when I was buying AOL you
could set up Email IDs with no real verification (phone number etc)
and I set one up for my dog when he got his facebook page. I just used
that. Once you are a "person" Facebook, you can log onto all sorts of
stuff tho. (hop over pay walls etc) My dog's mailbox is always packed
tho.

"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote

|
| So yes, there are local accounts. They're local accounts,
| because you don't have a Domain.
| | Microsoft tried to shoehorn "fake Domain" behavior into
| your home computer room. But there are some rough edges,
| and it may take a user a while to figure out exactly
| what those rough edges are.
| | An MSA account, is similar to a Domain account, in the
| sense that the password is the same everywhere, and it's
| a "long and strong" password, to prevent Internet hijinks.
| You definitely do not use a "12345" password on an MSA.
| Because you may be logging into the Microsoft server, and
| getting your Bitlocker recovery key from it.
|

I see. Thanks. I'd never heard that jargon before, I guess
because I've never paid much attention to the requirement
that I choose a "user name" on a standalone computer. So
I've thought in terms of "users" rather than "accounts".

I did know about the Roaming folder, though again, it's
never been anything more than a nuisance for me because
I've never worked at a corporate job and the Roaming design
is post-XP. Even when designing software installers I don't
need to know the details because I just ask the system for
the paths to the personal app data folder and the all users
app data folder.

Interesting about MSA. I'd assumed it was only a shopping
account for apps. But I suppose the Microsoft Club must have
a wider definition, including OneDrive and "conveniences", like
getting activation help easier. In the computer age, impersonal
IDs have become the way to feel personally known, as computer
voices enthusiastically tell us, "Welcome back" when we try to
reach human tech support.

Poor Microsoft never seems to get the hang of these things.
I don't know how many people use OneDrive vs GoogleDrive,
or MSAs vs gmail accounts, but I do know that people expecting
me to access their files on GD are common and I don't remember
more than once or twice seeing a link to OneDrive.

I decided to check out their presentation out of curiosity,
but MS websites are so broken these days without javascript
that the only information available was the blurbs on DuckDuckGo.
It looks like I could have a TB of storage free, just for joining
the Microsoft Family (R). That's very nice of them. Though the
info that I found only says "sign up for free". That sounds like
the software sites that say "download free" but the product
is actually crippleware.

MS never seem to quite get the idea with these things. Google
have been very cleverly evil in getting 90% of the population
to be completely hooked on gmail, Google search, Google maps,
and so on. If Google refused to handle non-gmail tomorrow,
people would call me without a second thought to tell me I'll
need a gmail account so that they can reach me. No one even
knows what a Microsoft account is. sucker@Microsoft.com?
sucker@outlook.com? sucker@live.com? sucker@passport.com?
sucker@hailstorm.com? kinuser235436@kin.com?
sucker@surface.com? sucker@onedrive.com? Can I still
get an address at ActiveDesktop.com to add to my antique
collection of Mindspring and AOL addresses?

"Vic" <vic@smurfing.com> wrote

| I still have no flipp'ng idea what you people are talking about with
| this account stuff. I had both my XP and 7 machine built at a a local
| shop. There is no password or "pin" I need to get into 7. Although I
| do know I have a choice with 7 of having the thing locked with a
| password, which I choose not to do.
|

This is actually a very insidious strategy on the part
of MS. By locking down the system and calling you a "user",
MS are further preparing the ground to force Windows
customers into being service users. They're stealing your
car and putting a taxi in the driveway.

For corporate employees it's always been this way. They
don't have a right -- or ability -- to access anything on their
computer beyond writing MSWord DOCs and such. Over the
years, MS have been spreading that to non-corporate
systems. Home and Pro are now zombie beta test machines
for Microsoft.

The logic makes some sense. They're locking down for
better security and providing user options for families where
Dad might not want Disney Frozen characters on his Desktop.
But the real scheme is that MS essentially becomes your
corporate boss.

In Win9x there was no security, and none possible. On
XP there's some control, such as files you can't delete without
special incantations. But mostly XP was just like the old days:
You install software into Program Files. The settings are in
Program Files. No one knows what My Documents is. No one's
ever seen Application Data folders. It's your car and there's no
acceleration limiter. Everyone was an Administrator and an
Admin really was an Admin.

That changed with Vista/7. Notably, it had to be on an NTFS
file system, allowing for the whole permissions thing that's really
designed for corporate lackey computers. Program Files became
restricted, so software had to be installed as for corporate
"seats" rather than SOHo PCs. The only way to be an admin now
is to activate the account named "Administrator". Along with that
have come various basic changes, such as the almost complete
inability to stop Windows from updating willy nilly. Gradually MS
plan to show ads, and already have to some extent. But they seem
to be waiting until the majority of people who expect to own what
they buy have died off.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:56:23 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

> "Vic" <vic@smurfing.com> wrote
>
>| I still have no flipp'ng idea what you people are talking about with
>| this account stuff. I had both my XP and 7 machine built at a a local
>| shop. There is no password or "pin" I need to get into 7. Although I
>| do know I have a choice with 7 of having the thing locked with a
>| password, which I choose not to do.
>|
>
> This is actually a very insidious strategy on the part
> of MS. By locking down the system and calling you a "user",
> MS are further preparing the ground to force Windows
> customers into being service users. They're stealing your
> car and putting a taxi in the driveway.

From what I've read on the Web, the car manufacturers have already
turned new cars into spyware. And some features are by subscription
only.

>
> For corporate employees it's always been this way. They
> don't have a right -- or ability -- to access anything on their
> computer beyond writing MSWord DOCs and such. Over the
> years, MS have been spreading that to non-corporate
> systems. Home and Pro are now zombie beta test machines
> for Microsoft.

I'd go back to Command Line DOS and Gopher before I let that happen to
me. I'm just a Home user. Screw them with their "corporate" takeover
stunt.

> The logic makes some sense. They're locking down for
> better security and providing user options for families where
> Dad might not want Disney Frozen characters on his Desktop.
> But the real scheme is that MS essentially becomes your
> corporate boss.

See my line above about DOS and Gopher.

> In Win9x there was no security, and none possible. On
> XP there's some control, such as files you can't delete without
> special incantations. But mostly XP was just like the old days:
> You install software into Program Files. The settings are in
> Program Files. No one knows what My Documents is. No one's
> ever seen Application Data folders. It's your car and there's no
> acceleration limiter. Everyone was an Administrator and an
> Admin really was an Admin.

Well, it seems as ignorant as I am on the subject, I was right about
XP. It was the last attempt by Redmond at commonsense and priority of
ownership regarding the user/buyer.

> That changed with Vista/7. Notably, it had to be on an NTFS
> file system, allowing for the whole permissions thing that's really
> designed for corporate lackey computers. Program Files became
> restricted, so software had to be installed as for corporate
> "seats" rather than SOHo PCs. The only way to be an admin now
> is to activate the account named "Administrator". Along with that
> have come various basic changes, such as the almost complete
> inability to stop Windows from updating willy nilly. Gradually MS
> plan to show ads, and already have to some extent. But they seem
> to be waiting until the majority of people who expect to own what
> they buy have died off.

I used Gibson's No Update proggie from his GRC site to stop any Win 10
updating nonsense. Matter of fact, I have updates turned off on about
all programs. FFX is an example of what a horrific mess an update can
turn into. (I still long for the never-to-be return of simple
Netscape. Ahh, there was simplicity.)

In message <1aayen9ipmtby.124u532325m9b$.dlg@40tude.net> at Fri, 15 Sep
2023 20:02:22, Vic <vic@smurfing.com> writes
>On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 00:10:48 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>> If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
>> your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
>> needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
>> name.
>
>I still have no flipp'ng idea what you people are talking about with
>this account stuff. I had both my XP and 7 machine built at a a local
[]
(As someone else pointed out, whoami will also tell you.) You have - and
are using - an account, you have just chosen to never see its name. (On
recovering from sleep/hibernate you may have to click on it - it'll be
the only one there.) from what you say, it's your machine/user name. (On
here - I'm the same as you, I never see it - whois tells me it's
stone-pc\stone.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm a paranoid agnostic. I doubt the existence of God, but I'm sure there is
some force, somewhere, working against me." - Marc Maron

In message <ue47g1$3qp32$1@dont-email.me> at Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:35:26,
Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> writes
[]
>a wider definition, including OneDrive and "conveniences", like
[]
In UK, public conveniences are what in US would be called public
bathrooms. (You know, those places with no bath in them.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm a paranoid agnostic. I doubt the existence of God, but I'm sure there is
some force, somewhere, working against me." - Marc Maron