I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer. I
hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the "new"
disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the spare disk
I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I had
decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I shut down
immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it won't boot up into
Win10. I can get it to the blue Repair screen where I can do a Windows
Reset, boot to Safe Mode (haven't tried that yet, but I don't expect it
to work), etc. I CAN get to a command prompt where I can see everything
on the C drive. I can get to a Repair thing where it appears to do a
CHKDSK-type check, but that doesn't help, of course.

Any suggestions how I can get this thing back on its feet? Will a
"Windows Reset" work (not quite sure what this does - it claims to not
disturb my data files, so maybe it just reinstalls Windows only?) Am I
correct in assuming that restoring from a Restore Point is not likely
to help?

"Nil" <rednoise9@rednoise9.invalid> wrote

|I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer. I
| hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the "new"
| disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the spare disk
| I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I had
| decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I shut down
| immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it won't boot up into
| Win10.

Not sure, but it sounds like you might just need to boot
to something like a partition manager and reset the active partition.
Simply booting into Win7 shouldn't have damaged anything.

In general I never do anything except with a tool. (I use
BootIt.) Windows has become increasingly worse about doing
what you want it to do in terms of booting, partitions, etc.

On 20 Feb 2023, "Newyana2" <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

> "Nil" <rednoise9@rednoise9.invalid> wrote
>
>|I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer.
>|I
>| hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the
>| "new" disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the
>| spare disk I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I
>| had decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I
>| shut down immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it
>| won't boot up into Win10.
>
> Not sure, but it sounds like you might just need to boot
> to something like a partition manager and reset the active
> partition. Simply booting into Win7 shouldn't have damaged
> anything.
>
> In general I never do anything except with a tool. (I use
> BootIt.) Windows has become increasingly worse about doing
> what you want it to do in terms of booting, partitions, etc.

Is this what you're referring to?

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-uefi/

Is this something I could do from Windows command prompt? I can get
that far from the Repair screen.

Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:25 PM:
> I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer. I
> hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the "new"
> disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the spare disk
> I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I had
> decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I shut down
> immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it won't boot up into
> Win10. I can get it to the blue Repair screen where I can do a Windows
> Reset, boot to Safe Mode (haven't tried that yet, but I don't expect it
> to work), etc. I CAN get to a command prompt where I can see everything
> on the C drive. I can get to a Repair thing where it appears to do a
> CHKDSK-type check, but that doesn't help, of course.
>
> Any suggestions how I can get this thing back on its feet? Will a
> "Windows Reset" work (not quite sure what this does - it claims to not
> disturb my data files, so maybe it just reinstalls Windows only?) Am I
> correct in assuming that restoring from a Restore Point is not likely
> to help?
>
Win10
Do you recall if your old boot disk was GPT formatted.
Do you recall if the Win7 disk is MBR

Access your UEFI or BIOS and determine which disk is enabled as the
primary boot device. Don't make any changes, just look.
Exit UEFI or BIOS

Disconnect the Win7 disk
Access the UEFI or BIOS and ensure the Win10 disk is the boot device.
- if not, make it the first booting device.

Exit the UEFI or BIOS and see if the device boots to Windows 10

Report the results.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 20 Feb 2023, =?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsSA=?=
<winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-10:

> Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:25 PM:
>> I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer.
>> I hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the
>> "new" disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the
>> spare disk I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I
>> had decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I
>> shut down immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it
>> won't boot up into Win10. I can get it to the blue Repair screen
>> where I can do a Windows Reset, boot to Safe Mode (haven't tried
>> that yet, but I don't expect it to work), etc. I CAN get to a
>> command prompt where I can see everything on the C drive. I can
>> get to a Repair thing where it appears to do a CHKDSK-type check,
>> but that doesn't help, of course.
>>
>> Any suggestions how I can get this thing back on its feet? Will a
>> "Windows Reset" work (not quite sure what this does - it claims
>> to not disturb my data files, so maybe it just reinstalls Windows
>> only?) Am I correct in assuming that restoring from a Restore
>> Point is not likely to help?
>>

I got the disk back. I tried several things, not sure what was the
magic trick that got it going. In the process I did some of what you
suggest...

> Win10
> Do you recall if your old boot disk was GPT formatted.
> Do you recall if the Win7 disk is MBR

The Win10 disk is GPT. I think the Win7 disk is MBR but not sure.
> Access your UEFI or BIOS and determine which disk is enabled as
> the primary boot device. Don't make any changes, just look.
> Exit UEFI or BIOS
>
> Disconnect the Win7 disk
> Access the UEFI or BIOS and ensure the Win10 disk is the boot
> device.
> - if not, make it the first booting device.

I had already disconnected the Win7 disk, but I went into UEFI. At
first it didn't seem to detect the HD at all, but after a couple of
power-downs it did, and I set it to be the first boot device, with the
CD drive as second.

> Exit the UEFI or BIOS and see if the device boots to Windows 10

It did not boot to Win10 at this point. I got into a command prompt and
executed some DISKPART commands I found on the net, which was
nervewracking because I don't really understand what they do. That may
have helped me mark a correct partition as Active.

Next restart it still didn't boot to windows, but when I went to UEFI a
third boot option is now there that I don't recall seeing before,
"Windows Boot Manager". I set IT to be the first boot device and now I
can boot up to Windows 10 seemingly like I did before.
> Report the results.

The new Boot Manager bothers me - I feel like it wasn't there before -
but it functions the way it should, so I'll consider that later, unless
you have some thoughts about it.

Thank you.

On 20 Feb 2023, "Newyana2" <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

> "Nil" <rednoise9@rednoise9.invalid> wrote
>
>|I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer.
>|I
>| hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the
>| "new" disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the
>| spare disk I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I
>| had decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I
>| shut down immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it
>| won't boot up into Win10.
>
> Not sure, but it sounds like you might just need to boot
> to something like a partition manager and reset the active
> partition. Simply booting into Win7 shouldn't have damaged
> anything.
>
> In general I never do anything except with a tool. (I use
> BootIt.) Windows has become increasingly worse about doing
> what you want it to do in terms of booting, partitions, etc.

I'm back in the saddle for now, see my reply to winston. Not sure if
it's the way it was before, but it's working. I wish I knew better what
I specifically did to get it going...

On 2/20/2023 7:59 PM, Nil wrote:
> On 20 Feb 2023, =?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsSA=?=
> <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-10:
>
>> Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:25 PM:
>>> I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer.
>>> I hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the
>>> "new" disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the
>>> spare disk I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I
>>> had decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I
>>> shut down immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it
>>> won't boot up into Win10. I can get it to the blue Repair screen
>>> where I can do a Windows Reset, boot to Safe Mode (haven't tried
>>> that yet, but I don't expect it to work), etc. I CAN get to a
>>> command prompt where I can see everything on the C drive. I can
>>> get to a Repair thing where it appears to do a CHKDSK-type check,
>>> but that doesn't help, of course.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions how I can get this thing back on its feet? Will a
>>> "Windows Reset" work (not quite sure what this does - it claims
>>> to not disturb my data files, so maybe it just reinstalls Windows
>>> only?) Am I correct in assuming that restoring from a Restore
>>> Point is not likely to help?
>>>
>
> I got the disk back. I tried several things, not sure what was the
> magic trick that got it going. In the process I did some of what you
> suggest...
>
>> Win10
>> Do you recall if your old boot disk was GPT formatted.
>> Do you recall if the Win7 disk is MBR
>
> The Win10 disk is GPT. I think the Win7 disk is MBR but not sure.
>
>> Access your UEFI or BIOS and determine which disk is enabled as
>> the primary boot device. Don't make any changes, just look.
>> Exit UEFI or BIOS
>>
>> Disconnect the Win7 disk
>> Access the UEFI or BIOS and ensure the Win10 disk is the boot
>> device.
>> - if not, make it the first booting device.
>
> I had already disconnected the Win7 disk, but I went into UEFI. At
> first it didn't seem to detect the HD at all, but after a couple of
> power-downs it did, and I set it to be the first boot device, with the
> CD drive as second.
>
>> Exit the UEFI or BIOS and see if the device boots to Windows 10
>
> It did not boot to Win10 at this point. I got into a command prompt and
> executed some DISKPART commands I found on the net, which was
> nervewracking because I don't really understand what they do. That may
> have helped me mark a correct partition as Active.
>
> Next restart it still didn't boot to windows, but when I went to UEFI a
> third boot option is now there that I don't recall seeing before,
> "Windows Boot Manager". I set IT to be the first boot device and now I
> can boot up to Windows 10 seemingly like I did before.
>
>> Report the results.
>
> The new Boot Manager bothers me - I feel like it wasn't there before -
> but it functions the way it should, so I'll consider that later, unless
> you have some thoughts about it.
>
> Thank you.

I've had a slight bit of trouble with my own machine here, and it
seems to be a UEFI issue. The machine, instead of spotting the
Windows Boot Manager on the GPT disk, uses legacy analysis and
"finds nothing suitable" and gives that two-line "message of despair" :-)

Using the popup boot key, and selecting the UEFI entry for the
drive explicitly, allows it to boot.

In the past, if you did that, succeeded in getting it to boot
manually via popup boot, via cached boot paths it could manage
to repeat the process on its own the next time. However, that
wasn't working either at one point.

Crap like this, hardly elicits any response at all from me any more :-)
I know I can fix these, so it doesn't even raise my blood pressure.

While an MSDOS partitioned MBR disk has an Active, a
GPT disk does not have an Active. As far as I know, the
MBR boot code storage area does not play a part either.
On an MSDOS MBR disk, the MBR boot code looks for the
first partition with the boot flag set (0x80). If there is
a boot flag set on this MBR, it is not part of the boot function.

Not used System Partition
+-----+------------+--------------------+---------------+-----------+---------------------------------------+
| MBR | Boot Track | ESP (FAT32 hidden) | 16MB reserved | C: NTFS | System Reserved Hidden NTFS WinRE.wim | GPT
+-----+------------+--------------------+---------------+-----------+---------------------------------------+
Microsoft and No file
|<--- 1MB worth ---> Ubuntu folders system present
etcetera

The BCD file is stored inside the ESP, in a Microsoft folder. You can
look in there with TestDisk. (I'm sure this paste is full of tab
characters, so don't be surprised if the alignment is ruined.)

TestDisk 7.0, Data Recovery Utility, April 2015
Christophe GRENIER <grenier@cgsecurity.org>
http://www.cgsecurity.org
P MS Data 2048 206847 204800 [NO NAME] <=== this is the ESP partition
Directory /EFI/Microsoft/Recovery
>drwxr-xr-x 0 0 0 5-Feb-2022 15:33 .
drwxr-xr-x 0 0 0 5-Feb-2022 15:33 ..
-rwxr-xr-x 0 0 28672 4-Oct-2022 12:50 BCD <=== this file is binary, it parses via bcdedit
-rwxr-xr-x 0 0 32768 5-Feb-2022 15:33 BCD.LOG
-rwxr-xr-x 0 0 0 5-Feb-2022 15:33 BCD.LOG1
-rwxr-xr-x 0 0 0 5-Feb-2022 15:33 BCD.LOG2

In an Administrator terminal, you can use this command. In the
example, I show a dual boot Win10/Win11, with much of the
detail removed. The only detail I am trying to show, is
the namespace of the partition identification.

bcdedit

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {bootmgr}
device partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1 <=== it uses the partition number to find the ESP.
path \EFI\MICROSOFT\BOOT\BOOTMGFW.EFI
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
....

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {current}
device partition=C: <=== identified by letter??? How????
path \WINDOWS\system32\winload.efi these letters are contextual and since I'm
description Windows 11 booted into Windows 11, "then this must be C: "
locale en-US
inherit {bootloadersettings}
....

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {745d2745-db40-11ec-b94a-2cff5dd90734}
device partition=H:
path \WINDOWS\system32\winload.efi
description Windows 10
locale en-us
inherit {bootloadersettings}
....

Linux does something similar, with GRUB. At
least one of the pointers is based on a partition number.
Very occasionally, after some partition management steps,
you can break the numbering.

Macrium Reflect rescue CD has a boot repair. You should
execute this, with just the OS drives connected, for best results.
Boot repair will regenerate a BCD file after a fashion.
Usually, this works. The three-stage Windows Repair can also
fix it, but the Macrium has a better track record. When Macrium
gets it wrong... now your blood pressure is going up.

Paul

Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:59 PM:
> On 20 Feb 2023, =?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsSA=?=
> <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-10:
>
>> Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:25 PM:
>>> I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer.
>>> I hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the
>>> "new" disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the
>>> spare disk I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I
>>> had decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I
>>> shut down immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it
>>> won't boot up into Win10. I can get it to the blue Repair screen
>>> where I can do a Windows Reset, boot to Safe Mode (haven't tried
>>> that yet, but I don't expect it to work), etc. I CAN get to a
>>> command prompt where I can see everything on the C drive. I can
>>> get to a Repair thing where it appears to do a CHKDSK-type check,
>>> but that doesn't help, of course.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions how I can get this thing back on its feet? Will a
>>> "Windows Reset" work (not quite sure what this does - it claims
>>> to not disturb my data files, so maybe it just reinstalls Windows
>>> only?) Am I correct in assuming that restoring from a Restore
>>> Point is not likely to help?
>>>
>
> I got the disk back. I tried several things, not sure what was the
> magic trick that got it going. In the process I did some of what you
> suggest...
>
>> Win10
>> Do you recall if your old boot disk was GPT formatted.
>> Do you recall if the Win7 disk is MBR
>
> The Win10 disk is GPT. I think the Win7 disk is MBR but not sure.
>
>> Access your UEFI or BIOS and determine which disk is enabled as
>> the primary boot device. Don't make any changes, just look.
>> Exit UEFI or BIOS
>>
>> Disconnect the Win7 disk
>> Access the UEFI or BIOS and ensure the Win10 disk is the boot
>> device.
>> - if not, make it the first booting device.
>
> I had already disconnected the Win7 disk, but I went into UEFI. At
> first it didn't seem to detect the HD at all, but after a couple of
> power-downs it did, and I set it to be the first boot device, with the
> CD drive as second.
>
>> Exit the UEFI or BIOS and see if the device boots to Windows 10
>
> It did not boot to Win10 at this point. I got into a command prompt and
> executed some DISKPART commands I found on the net, which was
> nervewracking because I don't really understand what they do. That may
> have helped me mark a correct partition as Active.
>
> Next restart it still didn't boot to windows, but when I went to UEFI a
> third boot option is now there that I don't recall seeing before,
> "Windows Boot Manager". I set IT to be the first boot device and now I
> can boot up to Windows 10 seemingly like I did before.
>
>> Report the results.
>
> The new Boot Manager bothers me - I feel like it wasn't there before -
> but it functions the way it should, so I'll consider that later, unless
> you have some thoughts about it.
>
> Thank you.
>
The Windows Boot Manager on UEFI is normal.
- i.e. it's the correct choice

What happened?
Connecting the Win7 disk with a bootable System partition realigned the
available devices in the UEFI negating the pre-Win7 connected disk
condition that booted using the System partition on the Win10 disk.
- Your two disks have two possibilities
Both GPT or the Win10 GPT and Win7 MBR

There's a possibility that your UEFI has multiple configurations for the
type of connected devices that allows you to select the type of devices
that you want to boot.
UEFI only
UEFI and Legacy
Legacy only
=> MBR is Legacy.
If the Win7 device is MBR and connected and ordered as priority for
present bootable devices then any setting that uses Legacy when the Win7
MBR disk has priority will use that MBR Win7 disk to boot.
If the Win7 device is GPT but ordered as a priority over the Win10 disk
that priority will use the GPT Win7 disk
- in both cases it uses the wrong device(disk) instead of Win10's disk
and the UEFI setting - Windows Boot Manager
(on some Win7 devices using MBR, the System and the Windows partition may
be the same rather separate partitions on the disk.

You can probably still connect that Windows 7 disk and wipe it and use
for data or other non-booting means.
- Shutdown the device
- Connect it
- Access the UEFI(ensure you know how to prevent it being bypassed and
booting)
- Verify that the correct Win10 disk is first in the device boot order
and Windows Boot Manager is selected. If necessary save these settings.
- Look in the UEFI for Boot options noted above(UEFI, UEFI&Legacy,
Legacy) - if present, ensure that UEFI or UEFI and Legacy are selected -
the former is prefered since its highly likely that the Win7 disk is MBR
- Reverify that the Win10 disk and Windows Boot Manager are still selected
- Save the UEFI setting, Exit the UEFI and boot the device
(optionally you may be able in some UEFI settings to exit the UEFI by
selecting the Boot device(the Windows Boot Manager) to directly boot the
Win10 disk while exiting the UEFI.
- If successful, navigate to Disk Management and do what you wanted to
do with that Win7 disk - select the volume(the disk), wipe the entire
disk to bare metal unallocated space, format as GPT, assign a drive
letter(if not pre-populated), close Disk Management, then use File
Explorer to do what you want - create folder, copy folders, copy files, etc.

Once done, you can go back to the UEFI settings, the Win7 device will not
be present as a possible booting device - no longer having a System
parition(alone or on the same partition as Windows 7).

Good luck.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 2/20/23 16:59, Nil wrote:
> On 20 Feb 2023, =?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsSA=?=
> <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-10:
>
>> Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:25 PM:
>>> I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer.
>>> I hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the
>>> "new" disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the
>>> spare disk I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I
>>> had decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I
>>> shut down immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it
>>> won't boot up into Win10. I can get it to the blue Repair screen
>>> where I can do a Windows Reset, boot to Safe Mode (haven't tried
>>> that yet, but I don't expect it to work), etc. I CAN get to a
>>> command prompt where I can see everything on the C drive. I can
>>> get to a Repair thing where it appears to do a CHKDSK-type check,
>>> but that doesn't help, of course.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions how I can get this thing back on its feet? Will a
>>> "Windows Reset" work (not quite sure what this does - it claims
>>> to not disturb my data files, so maybe it just reinstalls Windows
>>> only?) Am I correct in assuming that restoring from a Restore
>>> Point is not likely to help?
>>>
>
> I got the disk back. I tried several things, not sure what was the
> magic trick that got it going. In the process I did some of what you
> suggest...
>
>> Win10
>> Do you recall if your old boot disk was GPT formatted.
>> Do you recall if the Win7 disk is MBR
>
> The Win10 disk is GPT. I think the Win7 disk is MBR but not sure.
>
>> Access your UEFI or BIOS and determine which disk is enabled as
>> the primary boot device. Don't make any changes, just look.
>> Exit UEFI or BIOS
>>
>> Disconnect the Win7 disk
>> Access the UEFI or BIOS and ensure the Win10 disk is the boot
>> device.
>> - if not, make it the first booting device.
>
> I had already disconnected the Win7 disk, but I went into UEFI. At
> first it didn't seem to detect the HD at all, but after a couple of
> power-downs it did, and I set it to be the first boot device, with the
> CD drive as second.
>
>> Exit the UEFI or BIOS and see if the device boots to Windows 10
>
> It did not boot to Win10 at this point. I got into a command prompt and
> executed some DISKPART commands I found on the net, which was
> nervewracking because I don't really understand what they do. That may
> have helped me mark a correct partition as Active.
>
> Next restart it still didn't boot to windows, but when I went to UEFI a
> third boot option is now there that I don't recall seeing before,
> "Windows Boot Manager". I set IT to be the first boot device and now I
> can boot up to Windows 10 seemingly like I did before.
>
>> Report the results.
>
> The new Boot Manager bothers me - I feel like it wasn't there before -
> but it functions the way it should, so I'll consider that later, unless
> you have some thoughts about it.
>
> Thank you.

Hi Nil,

I often mount a customer old hard drive in their
new computers so I can have access to their
old files.

But, before booting normally, I boot into an Xfce
Fedora Live USB, fire up gparted and turn off the
old drive's boot flag. If I forget, I wind up
booting their old drive instead of their new
drive and sometimes randomly at that. I might
have said a few bad words. Maybe. I ain't saying.

-T

"Nil" <rednoise9@rednoise9.invalid> wrote

| Is this what you're referring to?
| | https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-uefi/
|

Yes. Though there are other options. I like
BootIt because it deals with everything, very dependably,
at a fair price. Generally this is something you boot from
a CD or USB stick. It's a DOS-style GUI.

I like to use a boot manager and boot a system
from there. That includes Win10. Windows has become
so badly behaved that I lke to install, then copy that
over to my boot disk, leaving BootIt in charge of boot.
Even some Linux systems these days will take over
and break your boot setup. Awhile back I was trying
out Linux versions and I think it was Fedora that erased
by boot manager and took over. I asked about it in a
support group. They told me it's supposed to do that
because most people don't understand multi-boot!
Windows was obnoxiously parochial long before Linux
started behaving that way. At least since Win7 it just
refuses to recognize anything currently unsupported
by MS, yet it also wants to take over. So I never let
these installers have access to my main disk.

In your case, I would have boooted into BootIt and
worked on the disk before doing anything else. But it
sounds like you got it worked out.

On 21/2/2023 8:25 am, Nil wrote:
> I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer. I
> hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the "new"
> disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the spare disk
> I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I had
> decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I shut down
> immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it won't boot up into
> Win10. I can get it to the blue Repair screen where I can do a Windows
> Reset, boot to Safe Mode (haven't tried that yet, but I don't expect it
> to work), etc. I CAN get to a command prompt where I can see everything
> on the C drive. I can get to a Repair thing where it appears to do a
> CHKDSK-type check, but that doesn't help, of course.

I don't remember Win 7 being able to boot from a USB...

Last resort: get a 3rd spare/new hard disk to reinstall Win 10 after
unplugging the old Win 10 drive?!

On 21 Feb 2023, =?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsSA=?=
<winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-10:

> Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:59 PM:
>> On 20 Feb 2023, =?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsSA=?=
>> <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-10:
>>
>>> Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:25 PM:
>>>> I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10
>>>> computer. I hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to
>>>> reformat the "new" disk and move some data to it. I realized
>>>> too late that the spare disk I hooked up was a previous Windows
>>>> 7 boot disk that I had decommissioned. The computer proceeded
>>>> to boot up to Win7. I shut down immediately and unplugged the
>>>> Win7 disk, but now it won't boot up into Win10. I can get it to
>>>> the blue Repair screen where I can do a Windows Reset, boot to
>>>> Safe Mode (haven't tried that yet, but I don't expect it to
>>>> work), etc. I CAN get to a command prompt where I can see
>>>> everything on the C drive. I can get to a Repair thing where it
>>>> appears to do a CHKDSK-type check, but that doesn't help, of
>>>> course.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions how I can get this thing back on its feet? Will
>>>> a "Windows Reset" work (not quite sure what this does - it
>>>> claims to not disturb my data files, so maybe it just
>>>> reinstalls Windows only?) Am I correct in assuming that
>>>> restoring from a Restore Point is not likely to help?
>>>>
>>
>> I got the disk back. I tried several things, not sure what was
>> the magic trick that got it going. In the process I did some of
>> what you suggest...
>>
>>> Win10
>>> Do you recall if your old boot disk was GPT formatted.
>>> Do you recall if the Win7 disk is MBR
>>
>> The Win10 disk is GPT. I think the Win7 disk is MBR but not sure.
>>
>>> Access your UEFI or BIOS and determine which disk is enabled as
>>> the primary boot device. Don't make any changes, just look.
>>> Exit UEFI or BIOS
>>>
>>> Disconnect the Win7 disk
>>> Access the UEFI or BIOS and ensure the Win10 disk is the boot
>>> device.
>>> - if not, make it the first booting device.
>>
>> I had already disconnected the Win7 disk, but I went into UEFI.
>> At first it didn't seem to detect the HD at all, but after a
>> couple of power-downs it did, and I set it to be the first boot
>> device, with the CD drive as second.
>>
>>> Exit the UEFI or BIOS and see if the device boots to Windows 10
>>
>> It did not boot to Win10 at this point. I got into a command
>> prompt and executed some DISKPART commands I found on the net,
>> which was nervewracking because I don't really understand what
>> they do. That may have helped me mark a correct partition as
>> Active.
>>
>> Next restart it still didn't boot to windows, but when I went to
>> UEFI a third boot option is now there that I don't recall seeing
>> before, "Windows Boot Manager". I set IT to be the first boot
>> device and now I can boot up to Windows 10 seemingly like I did
>> before.
>>
>>> Report the results.
>>
>> The new Boot Manager bothers me - I feel like it wasn't there
>> before - but it functions the way it should, so I'll consider
>> that later, unless you have some thoughts about it.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
> The Windows Boot Manager on UEFI is normal.
> - i.e. it's the correct choice
>
> What happened?
> Connecting the Win7 disk with a bootable System partition
> realigned the
> available devices in the UEFI negating the pre-Win7 connected disk
> condition that booted using the System partition on the Win10
> disk.
> - Your two disks have two possibilities
> Both GPT or the Win10 GPT and Win7 MBR
>
> There's a possibility that your UEFI has multiple configurations
> for the type of connected devices that allows you to select the
> type of devices that you want to boot.
> UEFI only
> UEFI and Legacy
> Legacy only
> => MBR is Legacy.
> If the Win7 device is MBR and connected and ordered as priority
> for
> present bootable devices then any setting that uses Legacy when
> the Win7 MBR disk has priority will use that MBR Win7 disk to
> boot.
> If the Win7 device is GPT but ordered as a priority over the
> Win10 disk
> that priority will use the GPT Win7 disk
> - in both cases it uses the wrong device(disk) instead of Win10's
> disk and the UEFI setting - Windows Boot Manager
> (on some Win7 devices using MBR, the System and the Windows
> partition may be the same rather separate partitions on the disk.
>
> You can probably still connect that Windows 7 disk and wipe it and
> use for data or other non-booting means.
> - Shutdown the device
> - Connect it
> - Access the UEFI(ensure you know how to prevent it being bypassed
> and booting)
> - Verify that the correct Win10 disk is first in the device boot
> order and Windows Boot Manager is selected. If necessary save
> these settings. - Look in the UEFI for Boot options noted
> above(UEFI, UEFI&Legacy, Legacy) - if present, ensure that UEFI or
> UEFI and Legacy are selected - the former is prefered since its
> highly likely that the Win7 disk is MBR - Reverify that the Win10
> disk and Windows Boot Manager are still selected - Save the UEFI
> setting, Exit the UEFI and boot the device
> (optionally you may be able in some UEFI settings to exit the
> UEFI by
> selecting the Boot device(the Windows Boot Manager) to directly
> boot the Win10 disk while exiting the UEFI.
> - If successful, navigate to Disk Management and do what you
> wanted to
> do with that Win7 disk - select the volume(the disk), wipe the
> entire disk to bare metal unallocated space, format as GPT, assign
> a drive letter(if not pre-populated), close Disk Management, then
> use File Explorer to do what you want - create folder, copy
> folders, copy files, etc.
>
> Once done, you can go back to the UEFI settings, the Win7 device
> will not be present as a possible booting device - no longer
> having a System parition(alone or on the same partition as Windows
> 7).
>
> Good luck.

Thank you! So, I guess I panicked, and by removing the Win7 disk I left
the system without a viable boot disk. I should have left it in there,
interrupted the boot to Windows, gone to UEFT to chosen the Win10 disk
as the first boot device. I still could, I guess, but I don't need to
any more.

My original goal was to blow away the old Win7 disk to be used as a 2nd
storage disk. I was trying to save some effort by doing it all with the
SATA connectors on the motherboard while I have the case open. I also
have a USB hard disk dock that I can use, which will be safer, or at
least not as prone to carelessness on my part.

Thanks, again.

On 21 Feb 2023, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote
in alt.comp.os.windows-10:

> On 21/2/2023 8:25 am, Nil wrote:
>> I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10 computer.
>> I hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to reformat the
>> "new" disk and move some data to it. I realized too late that the
>> spare disk I hooked up was a previous Windows 7 boot disk that I
>> had decommissioned. The computer proceeded to boot up to Win7. I
>> shut down immediately and unplugged the Win7 disk, but now it
>> won't boot up into Win10. I can get it to the blue Repair screen
>> where I can do a Windows Reset, boot to Safe Mode (haven't tried
>> that yet, but I don't expect it to work), etc. I CAN get to a
>> command prompt where I can see everything on the C drive. I can
>> get to a Repair thing where it appears to do a CHKDSK-type check,
>> but that doesn't help, of course.
>
> I don't remember Win 7 being able to boot from a USB...

This was all done cabled to the motherboard SATA ports, not USB. I
would have been better off using my USB hard disk docking station
because Windows would have already been fully booted up. I was lazy -
the old Win7 disk is in a caddy that just slips into a rack inside the
case I was trying to avoid unscrewing 4 screws to remove it. Doh!
> Last resort: get a 3rd spare/new hard disk to reinstall Win 10
> after unplugging the old Win 10 drive?!

Fortunately I didn't have to resort to that. Reinstalling Windows 10
would be a very last resort, though I was considering it. My computer
is so highly tuned for my use that it would be a major PITA to have
reinstall everything.

Nil wrote on 2/21/2023 1:41 PM:
> On 21 Feb 2023, =?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsSA=?=
> <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-10:
>
>> Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:59 PM:
>>> On 20 Feb 2023, =?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsSA=?=
>>> <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-10:
>>>
>>>> Nil wrote on 2/20/2023 5:25 PM:
>>>>> I was proceeding to add a second hard disk to my Win 10
>>>>> computer. I hooked up a spare HD and booted up, intending to
>>>>> reformat the "new" disk and move some data to it. I realized
>>>>> too late that the spare disk I hooked up was a previous Windows
>>>>> 7 boot disk that I had decommissioned. The computer proceeded
>>>>> to boot up to Win7. I shut down immediately and unplugged the
>>>>> Win7 disk, but now it won't boot up into Win10. I can get it to
>>>>> the blue Repair screen where I can do a Windows Reset, boot to
>>>>> Safe Mode (haven't tried that yet, but I don't expect it to
>>>>> work), etc. I CAN get to a command prompt where I can see
>>>>> everything on the C drive. I can get to a Repair thing where it
>>>>> appears to do a CHKDSK-type check, but that doesn't help, of
>>>>> course.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions how I can get this thing back on its feet? Will
>>>>> a "Windows Reset" work (not quite sure what this does - it
>>>>> claims to not disturb my data files, so maybe it just
>>>>> reinstalls Windows only?) Am I correct in assuming that
>>>>> restoring from a Restore Point is not likely to help?
>>>>>
>>>
>>> I got the disk back. I tried several things, not sure what was
>>> the magic trick that got it going. In the process I did some of
>>> what you suggest...
>>>
>>>> Win10
>>>> Do you recall if your old boot disk was GPT formatted.
>>>> Do you recall if the Win7 disk is MBR
>>>
>>> The Win10 disk is GPT. I think the Win7 disk is MBR but not sure.
>>>
>>>> Access your UEFI or BIOS and determine which disk is enabled as
>>>> the primary boot device. Don't make any changes, just look.
>>>> Exit UEFI or BIOS
>>>>
>>>> Disconnect the Win7 disk
>>>> Access the UEFI or BIOS and ensure the Win10 disk is the boot
>>>> device.
>>>> - if not, make it the first booting device.
>>>
>>> I had already disconnected the Win7 disk, but I went into UEFI.
>>> At first it didn't seem to detect the HD at all, but after a
>>> couple of power-downs it did, and I set it to be the first boot
>>> device, with the CD drive as second.
>>>
>>>> Exit the UEFI or BIOS and see if the device boots to Windows 10
>>>
>>> It did not boot to Win10 at this point. I got into a command
>>> prompt and executed some DISKPART commands I found on the net,
>>> which was nervewracking because I don't really understand what
>>> they do. That may have helped me mark a correct partition as
>>> Active.
>>>
>>> Next restart it still didn't boot to windows, but when I went to
>>> UEFI a third boot option is now there that I don't recall seeing
>>> before, "Windows Boot Manager". I set IT to be the first boot
>>> device and now I can boot up to Windows 10 seemingly like I did
>>> before.
>>>
>>>> Report the results.
>>>
>>> The new Boot Manager bothers me - I feel like it wasn't there
>>> before - but it functions the way it should, so I'll consider
>>> that later, unless you have some thoughts about it.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>> The Windows Boot Manager on UEFI is normal.
>> - i.e. it's the correct choice
>>
>> What happened?
>> Connecting the Win7 disk with a bootable System partition
>> realigned the
>> available devices in the UEFI negating the pre-Win7 connected disk
>> condition that booted using the System partition on the Win10
>> disk.
>> - Your two disks have two possibilities
>> Both GPT or the Win10 GPT and Win7 MBR
>>
>> There's a possibility that your UEFI has multiple configurations
>> for the type of connected devices that allows you to select the
>> type of devices that you want to boot.
>> UEFI only
>> UEFI and Legacy
>> Legacy only
>> => MBR is Legacy.
>> If the Win7 device is MBR and connected and ordered as priority
>> for
>> present bootable devices then any setting that uses Legacy when
>> the Win7 MBR disk has priority will use that MBR Win7 disk to
>> boot.
>> If the Win7 device is GPT but ordered as a priority over the
>> Win10 disk
>> that priority will use the GPT Win7 disk
>> - in both cases it uses the wrong device(disk) instead of Win10's
>> disk and the UEFI setting - Windows Boot Manager
>> (on some Win7 devices using MBR, the System and the Windows
>> partition may be the same rather separate partitions on the disk.
>>
>> You can probably still connect that Windows 7 disk and wipe it and
>> use for data or other non-booting means.
>> - Shutdown the device
>> - Connect it
>> - Access the UEFI(ensure you know how to prevent it being bypassed
>> and booting)
>> - Verify that the correct Win10 disk is first in the device boot
>> order and Windows Boot Manager is selected. If necessary save
>> these settings. - Look in the UEFI for Boot options noted
>> above(UEFI, UEFI&Legacy, Legacy) - if present, ensure that UEFI or
>> UEFI and Legacy are selected - the former is prefered since its
>> highly likely that the Win7 disk is MBR - Reverify that the Win10
>> disk and Windows Boot Manager are still selected - Save the UEFI
>> setting, Exit the UEFI and boot the device
>> (optionally you may be able in some UEFI settings to exit the
>> UEFI by
>> selecting the Boot device(the Windows Boot Manager) to directly
>> boot the Win10 disk while exiting the UEFI.
>> - If successful, navigate to Disk Management and do what you
>> wanted to
>> do with that Win7 disk - select the volume(the disk), wipe the
>> entire disk to bare metal unallocated space, format as GPT, assign
>> a drive letter(if not pre-populated), close Disk Management, then
>> use File Explorer to do what you want - create folder, copy
>> folders, copy files, etc.
>>
>> Once done, you can go back to the UEFI settings, the Win7 device
>> will not be present as a possible booting device - no longer
>> having a System parition(alone or on the same partition as Windows
>> 7).
>>
>> Good luck.
>
> Thank you! So, I guess I panicked, and by removing the Win7 disk I left
> the system without a viable boot disk. I should have left it in there,
> interrupted the boot to Windows, gone to UEFT to chosen the Win10 disk
> as the first boot device. I still could, I guess, but I don't need to
> any more.
>
> My original goal was to blow away the old Win7 disk to be used as a 2nd
> storage disk. I was trying to save some effort by doing it all with the
> SATA connectors on the motherboard while I have the case open. I also
> have a USB hard disk dock that I can use, which will be safer, or at
> least not as prone to carelessness on my part.
>
> Thanks, again.
>
You're welcome.
Just insert it in the external carrier(powered on)then access in Disk
Managment or other 3rd party disk or partitioning software.
- remove all partitions, format as GPT, assign label(if not done
automatically) then use as is, or connect to the SATA in the main device.

If installing in the device, one up in Windows, look in Disk Management
you'll be able to see the Disk # assignment
- Some SATA mobos enumerate the device disk # based on the Sata
configuration to the mobo(in UEFI the connection is usually SATA 1, SATA
2, etc), others might if SSD or NVME/M.2 are present assign disk #
differently.
Bottom line - good idea to always know which disk #...one never knows
when they might have to use Diskpart where disk # is important.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 2/21/2023 3:41 PM, Nil wrote:

>
> Thank you! So, I guess I panicked, and by removing the Win7 disk I left
> the system without a viable boot disk. I should have left it in there,
> interrupted the boot to Windows, gone to UEFT to chosen the Win10 disk
> as the first boot device. I still could, I guess, but I don't need to
> any more.
>
> My original goal was to blow away the old Win7 disk to be used as a 2nd
> storage disk. I was trying to save some effort by doing it all with the
> SATA connectors on the motherboard while I have the case open. I also
> have a USB hard disk dock that I can use, which will be safer, or at
> least not as prone to carelessness on my part.
>
> Thanks, again.

Probably both disks had boot materials on them, but one of them
could do nothing but jam up. As long as the boot order was set
to start from that drive, nothing good would happen.

Disk drive layouts, consist of component parts. Most of the time,
the "invisible" data is sane, and you want to keep it. Macrium Reflect
backup software for example, not only records the partition you ask it
to save, it also records lots of little stuff near the origin of the disk.

What then, should you do, if you want to sanitize a disk ?

*******

This allows you to keep a partition in a container, without
regard to anything else.

https://linux.die.net/man/8/ntfsclone

Sites like this one, help with the education process.

https://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/index.html

You could zero out everything from 0x000 to 0x1B2 inclusive in the MBR.
The data drive is not going to be a boot drive any more. Hopefully
the drive is not using crypto which is dependent on the MBR.

Much of the rest of it can be left in place.

You can edit the MBR, with this.

https://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/

When run as Administrator, you can use the Open Disk Drive option and
edit sector 0 if you want.

To interpret the partition table, there is PTEDIT32.exe . It is
a free program included with licensed software. You extract the
program from the package, for personal usage.

********* canned paragraph on PTEDIT32... **********

http://www.download3k.com/System-Utilities/File-Disk-Management/Download-Partition-Magic.html

enpm800retaildemo.zip 23,776,770 bytes

You can use 7ZIP to burrow into the file and extract
the copy of PTEDIT32.exe.

L:\enpm800retaildemo.zip\Setup\PMagic.cab\
PTEDIT32.EXE 503,808 bytes September 16, 2002, 2:24:48 AM

Once extracted, you run that as Administrator, or otherwise
it won't be able to access the MBR and present a nice table
of partitions. An "Error 5" means you didn't elevate it
as Administrator.

********* END: canned paragraph on PTEDIT32... **********

Using PTEDIT32, you can locate the boot flag, and write 0x00
over it to turn it off.

http://mistyprojects.co.uk/documents/ptedit/img/mbr1.jpg

You don't really need the partition table, and you can zero
all the fields out, if you don't feel like doing it with HxD
hex editor.

If a disk is small enough, you can wipe the drive entirely,
and put back a single NTFS partition you recorded with ntfsclone.
As an example of a way of doing it, without Macrium putting
anything back that you do not want put back.

You can wipe a drive using diskpart and "clean all" on a drive.
With only the target hard drive in the computer, you can boot
a Macrium Reflect rescue CD and do the diskpart sequence from there.
(Macrium Reflect has a Command Prompt in the tray.)
Since only the disk drive needing cleaning is connected, it's pretty
hard to damage anything else in the computer.

Disks get exactly the same cleaning, if you use dd in an admin Command Prompt.

dd.exe --list # shows disks and partitions, shows *size*

dd.exe if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda # Using defined values of block size bs=
# and count= , you can zero every last byte
# on the hard drive more efficiently. The command
# as shown, is slow.

Put back an MBR with dd.exe

dd.exe if=C:\users\username\Downloads\mbr.bin of=/dev/sda # deposited at offset 0
# MBR.bin is 512 bytes in length

Using your MBR (or even, editing it), you can beat it into shape.

Then use ntfsclone to put back the files, as before.

*******

The task then, is finding sufficient tools for the component parts,
tools which give the level of precision required for surgery. Then
practicing, until you get all the procedures right.

A data drive only absolutely needs GPT, if it is larger than 2.2TB .
(I'm leaving out a lot of details making that statement.)

Diskpart "clean" or "clean all" will both remove the duplicate GPT
partition tables, and this avoids less hygienic tools from leaving
bits of the GPT behind, and some other tool trip over it.

This is the essence of disk maintenance. There are certain things
which cause "tripping" and "stumbling" such as you experienced.
If you remove sufficient boot-like materials from drives, then
just maybe, the UEFI will stop analyzing these drives and jumping
to the wrong conclusions. While it is fun to dodge bullets like
Neo, using the popup boot table, in the long run, using a "dirty"
setup is just wrong. Sooner or later, something far more complicated
will happen, and you'll be sorry.

For example, if all boot materials are damaged, hmmm. If you have a
backup of your ESP, you might escape. You never know.

Paul

On 22/2/2023 4:47 am, Nil wrote:
>
> Fortunately I didn't have to resort to that. Reinstalling Windows 10
> would be a very last resort, though I was considering it. My computer
> is so highly tuned for my use that it would be a major PITA to have
> reinstall everything.

Glad that you solved the problem!

On 2023-02-21 15:47, Nil wrote:

> My computer
> is so highly tuned for my use that it would be a major PITA to have
> reinstall everything.

Wow! I've never ever said that[1].

[1] Okay, I can't back that up.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee