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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

SubjectAuthor
* How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
+* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAndy Burns
|+* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
||`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|| +* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
|| |+* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchgtr
|| ||`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchIncubus
|| || `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchDanS
|| ||  `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|| ||   `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchDanS
|| ||    `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|| ||     `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchDanS
|| ||      `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|| |`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchKen Blake
|| | +* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|| | |`- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchKen Blake
|| | +* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAnt
|| | |+* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
|| | ||`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAnt
|| | || `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|| | |`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|| | | `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchKen Blake
|| | |  +* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAndy Burns
|| | |  |`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchKen Blake
|| | |  | `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAndy Burns
|| | |  |  `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|| | |  |   `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
|| | |  |    `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|| | |  `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|| | `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
|| |  `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|| |   `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
|| |    `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|| `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchRonTheGuy
|`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
| `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchNewyana2
|  `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|   +* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAlan Browne
|   |`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|   | +* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAlan Browne
|   | |`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|   | | `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAlan Browne
|   | `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
|   |  `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|   +- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchKen Blake
|   `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchNewyana2
|    `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|     +* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAlan Browne
|     |`- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|     `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchNY
+* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchMajorLanGod
|`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
| `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
|  `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
|   `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchdan
+* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchJeff Barnett
|`- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchLars Anders
+* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchZaghadka
|+- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchnospam
|`* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchChar Jackson
| `* Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchZaghadka
|  +- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchAndy Burnelli
|  `- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchZaghadka
`- Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switchBob F

Pages:123
Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

<kdt90i57cqtldq46uk5stko5hv2n2r7olh@4ax.com>

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From: non...@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
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 by: Char Jackson - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 20:15 UTC

On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 17:16:44 -0200, dan <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 20:41:36 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:
>
>
>> Every router with more than one LAN port has an Ethernet switch built
>> in, almost always a 5-port switch where the 5th port is internally
>> connected to the router section.
>
>I found out that you're right that the DD-WRT software I flashed has an
>option to turn the now unused WAN RJ45 port into a usable LAN RJ45 port.
>
>Repeater Bridge DD-WRT Setup > Basic Setup > Network Setup > WAN Port >
>Assign WAN Port to Switch = checkbox
>
>That makes all five ports (4 LAN + 1 WAN) RJ45s into usable LAN ports.
>
>Yesterday I finished setting it up as what DD-WRT calls a Repeater Bridge.
>https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Image:Repeater_Bridge.jpg
>
>My plan is to plop that Repeater Bridge (inside or outside) wherever I need
>stronger signal (if it has enough signal from any access point nearby).
>
>Not only does that "new" Repeater Bridge give me instant strong signal
>anywhere I plug it in, but it also gives me those five Ethernet ports
>I had asked for when I first opened this thread.
>
>One of those five Ethernet ports could be useful to plug a pc into if the
>pc doesn't have a wireless NIC but if it only has an Ethernet NIC instead.
>
>That way the Repeater Bridge also adds Wi-Fi to a pc.
>
>All this is for free.
>[1] Instant high signal strength for wireless devices like phones & laptops
>[2] No wires other than the need for the power connection
>[3] Five Ethernet ports
>[4] Connects to any access point (not just to the one main home router)
>
>I'm trying to think of a downside to having set up the spare router as a
>Repeater Bridge, and I just can't think of any. Is there any downside?

The last time I tried a repeater experiment, which was also the first
time I tried a repeater experiment, the current WiFi protocol was
802.11g, which provides up to 54 megabits of throughput in theory. A
repeater necessarily cuts that in half, minus a bit more for switching
overhead and collisions, so I was hoping to see about 20-25 mbits but I
could only manage about 12-15mbits. That was the end of that experiment.

WiFi has come a long way since then, but repeaters still suck, in my
mind, because whatever WiFi protocol your old router supports, you're
only likely to see about 35-40% of the theoretical rate. That's too much
of a hit for me, so I always look for other options.

Bottom line, your LAN ports may or may not be limited to only 100mbits,
but that's probably not the limiting factor. It's probably the WiFi
link. Note that signal strength doesn't necessarily correlate to
throughput capacity. It's possible to have a very strong signal that's
completely unusable.

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

<tu2um9$3a3ht$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=69501&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#69501

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From: nos...@nospam.com (dan)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2023 18:39:49 -0200
Organization: To protect and to server
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 by: dan - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 20:39 UTC

On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 13:41:09 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

>> That's pretty useful don't you think?
>
> Yes indeed - glad this is working for you.

What I didn't know was how VERSATILE a router is, where, in the end, I got
my five Ethernet ports after all.
https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Image:Repeater_Bridge.jpg

What I love is this DD-WRT Repeater Bridge is portable.

I can plop it to anywhere inside or out that needs more signal strength.
Or that needs Ethernet ports.

All for free.

> I have a spare WiFi router
> and now I'm tempted to do similar.

I watched this great Repeater Bridge setup video but only after I couldn't
get the DD-WRT Repeater Bridge to connect to the Internet.
https://youtu.be/oJaYE9Yk7gc

The issues I think had prevented Internet connections were [1] the Gateway
& Local DNS had to be the same and [2] I didn't know that I had to choose
in the "Advanced Routing" tab between the "Operating Mode" of "Router" &
"Gateway" and [3] I think it was important that I finally played with the
boolean choices for the "Services" settings on "DNSMasq" & "Local DNS."

I'm not sure if I needed all three, but only after changing all three did
the Internet suddenly show up using the router as a DD-WRT Repeater Bridge.

> I can put it in the attic above the centre of the house.

Portability is the beauty of this Repeater Bridge.

The only requirements I can think of are these as far as I know.
[1] You need AC power in your attic
[2] You need "some" signal strength from any access point in your LAN
[3] Your router has to be a Wi-Fi router that DD-WRT supports

> Has to go through the ceiling but that's better
> than the 2 walls it's penetrating now to get to the kitchen and patio (3
> walls). OTOH, it would made wired access to the router not very practical.

I think you only need to decide between a Client Bridge or Repeater Bridge.
https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Image:Client_Bridge.jpg
https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/images/9/9b/Repeater_Bridge.jpg

This is a humorous video explaining the kinds of choices involved.
https://youtu.be/rmB7n-ABNaA

For a single subnet LAN, I think the Repeater Bridge works the best.
https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeater_Bridge

Notice that most of the time people seem to connect it to the access point
which is inside the main home router but mine connects to any access point.

There are even ways to set up the Repeater Bridge in dual band mode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJYb3bMzN6g

> Another route would be a (brieflyly exposed) cable through the basement
> into the crawlspace and up into the LR. Already have some speaker wire
> on that last segment.

Cabling is nice. But more physical work.

If you do set up your extra router with DD-WRT as a Repeater Bridge, you'll
want to specifically make a decision about these three issues which got me.

DD-WRT Repeater Bridge https://youtu.be/ByB8vVGBjh4?t=35
Setup > Basic Setup > Network Setup > "Gateway" & "Local DNS" settings
[1] I didn't have Internet until I set them both to "192.168.1.1"

DD-WRT Repeater Bridge
Setup > Advanced Routing > Operating Mode > "Router" & "Gateway" setting
[2] I didn't have Internet until I changed from "Gateway" to "Router"

DD-WRT Repeater Bridge
Services > Services Management > DNSMasq > "DNSMasq" & "Local DNS" settings
[3] I didn't have Internet until I enabled both of them but the videos
say to disable "DNSMasq" but it didn't work for me so maybe it doesn't
matter because after I did all three, finally the Internet showed up.

I'm still a noob but if you have questions, feel free to ask for help.
A friend said he'd give me an old router so I can try setting up another.

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

<tu2vtb$3a7tr$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=69503&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#69503

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From: nos...@nospam.com (dan)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2023 19:00:40 -0200
Organization: To protect and to server
Message-ID: <tu2vtb$3a7tr$1@paganini.bofh.team>
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 by: dan - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 21:00 UTC

On Sun, 05 Mar 2023 14:15:40 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

>> I'm trying to think of a downside to having set up the spare router as a
>> Repeater Bridge, and I just can't think of any. Is there any downside?
>
> The last time I tried a repeater experiment, which was also the first
> time I tried a repeater experiment, the current WiFi protocol was
> 802.11g, which provides up to 54 megabits of throughput in theory.

Also for me the last time I tried a repeater experiment (which was also the
first time I tried a repeater experiment) the router was the WRT54Gv5.

I think at the time it wouldn't handle wireless repeating so I wired it.
That's (I hope) the last time I'll ever crawl around stringing cables!

I do understand that the main downside you're saying is the router is old.

> A
> repeater necessarily cuts that in half, minus a bit more for switching
> overhead and collisions, so I was hoping to see about 20-25 mbits but I
> could only manage about 12-15mbits. That was the end of that experiment.

Does this "dual band" DD-WRT "Repeater Bridge" solve the speed problem?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJYb3bMzN6g

> WiFi has come a long way since then, but repeaters still suck, in my
> mind, because whatever WiFi protocol your old router supports, you're
> only likely to see about 35-40% of the theoretical rate. That's too much
> of a hit for me, so I always look for other options.

That seems reasonable that the biggest drawback is likely that the speed is
probably something less than half of what it would be had it been wired.

> Bottom line, your LAN ports may or may not be limited to only 100mbits,
> but that's probably not the limiting factor. It's probably the WiFi
> link. Note that signal strength doesn't necessarily correlate to
> throughput capacity. It's possible to have a very strong signal that's
> completely unusable.

That makes a second drawback which is that the ports on an older router are
likely to be slower than the ports that might be on a newer router.

So that's two known drawbacks.
[1] The speed is less when it's a Repeater Bridge than if it was wired
[2] The five Ethernet ports are still slower than the latest in speeds

Thanks!

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

<tu31i3$3ad1u$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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From: nos...@nospam.com (dan)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2023 19:28:47 -0200
Organization: To protect and to server
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 by: dan - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 21:28 UTC

On Sun, 05 Mar 2023 13:53:58 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

>>What you gain with a Repeater Bridge wherever you plop it down, is
>>[1] You gain five Ethernet RJ45 ports for free (one is configurable)
>>[2] You gain a strong access point wherever you plop the Repeater Bridge
>>[3] I can't figure out even a single downside to a Repeater Bridge setup
>
> Low throughput comes to mind when dealing with repeaters. If you're ok
> with that, the rest is good.

Thank you for all your help and advice which was instrumental in getting
the Repeater Bridge working as a portable hotspot with Ethernet ports.

It seems that's the main drawback which is lower speed because of two
things that conspire together, the first being it's an old router after all
(so for example, the Ethernet ports are not the fastest speeds) and the
Repeater Bridge function itself lowers the throughput.

Two things I briefly tested because I was curious are NEVER shown in any of
the descriptions I've seen so far of how Repeater Bridges work are
[1] You can connect to any of your LAN access points, not just the router
[2] Any client can still connect to the same access point you bridged to

That's kind of neat in that everything that worked for wireless clients
(like phones & laptops) before the Repeater Bridge was set up, still works.

I had thought making the router bridge to (let's call it) AccessPoint1,
that AccessPoint1 wouldn't be available to other wireless clients at the
same time. But it is.

What's even better is that a friend gave me a second (even older) router to
play with today and I set it up to connect to the same AccessPoint1.

So, for example, I can bring up BOTH Repeater Bridges on my PC so that I
could take screen shots of each page side by side in my web browser to
compare the setup differences (they're versions of the DD-WRT software).
https://freeimage.host/i/HWGtxCx

In one old router, for example, you can see the Repeater Bridge only seemed
to have worked when I set "DNSMasq" to Enable & "Local DNS" to Disable.
https://forum.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=319049

In another old router, the Repeater Bridge only seemed to have worked when
I set both the "DNSMasq" & "Local DNS" to Enable.

It doesn't help things that I don't even know what a "DNSMasq" is. :-(

This description says it's just a cache so I don't see why it mattered.
https://blog.flashrouters.com/2011/10/10/advantages-of-dd-wrt-3-what-is-dnsmasq/

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

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Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
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 by: NY - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 22:02 UTC

On 05/03/2023 18:25, dan wrote:
> I apologize that I started asking only how to turn the old router into a
> dumb switch but then when I started learning what an old router could do, I
> "moved the goalposts" to asking how to make it a more useful Repeater
> Bridge.

I used an old router as a wifi access point on a different LAN segment.
I was having (and I'm still occasionally having) problems accessing a
certain website from my Android phone, but only over my VDSL internet
connection and not over anyone else's or over my phone's mobile internet
connection. Sometimes the network gets into a state where a request for
a page on the site times out.

So I wanted to get a Wireshark trace of the conversation. Sadly I fell
foul of the router's desire to keep traffic local to one LAN segment. I
tried with a Wireshark PC connected to the same wireless access point as
the phone, as opposed to PC on an Ethernet port and phone on wifi, but
even that didn't see all the traffic for a web-page access. I thought
that all devices connected to the same wifi node were regarded as the
same "LAN segment" in terms of traffic filtering - evidently not.

So I bought a managed switch which offered port mirroring: one Ethernet
port is *defined* to see all the traffic on another port. Not having a
wireless access point, I connected an old router (with NAT turned off)
to the port that was being mirrored, having given that router a unique
SSID to which I connected my phone. I connected the Wireshark PC to the
port that was receiving a mirror of the router/access-point, with
another port connected to the rest of my LAN. Now I could guarantee that
any traffic between my phone and the internet (and hence the misbehaving
site) would be echoed to the Wireshark PC.

It worked a treat. I saw some very odd behaviour, with TCP packets from
the phone to the site retrying at 2, 4, 8, ... seconds because they
never got a response from the web server. I'm not sure quite how to
interpret the results and where the blame might lie, but at least I've
got the trace so my ISP and/or the web site owner can investigate further.

For now I take the coward's way out: when I want to access that site I
turn off wifi on my phone to force it to use mobile internet instead.
Normally it works, but then for a week or so it consistently fails. My
router gets allocated various different WAN addresses by my ISP, in
various different subnets; also the order of primary and secondary DNS
alternates from time to time (presumably the DHCP-like mechanism that
the ISP uses to allocate WAN IP to the router hands out different
addresses when the connection is renewed). However my theory was untrue:
whether the phone could or couldn't access the site did not seem to be
affected by which range of IP addresses or which order DNS server were
used by the router's WAN connection.

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:49 -0600
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 by: Zaghadka - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 02:32 UTC

On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 17:08:46 -0600, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Char
Jackson wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 13:12:14 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 17:27:47 -0200, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, dan wrote:
>>
>>>But how would I turn the old router from routing into a "dumb" switch?
>>
>>Basically, you don't. You will get more complicated answers. But they
>>will vary from "not worth it" to "you can't."
>
>You may not have read the thread or you'd see that it's beyond simple.
>
>Disable DHCP, configure a static LAN IP, and don't use the WAN port. Now
>you have an unmanaged switch, and you can do it with virtually every
>SOHO router, with or without WiFi. No extra software required, you can
>do those simple tasks right from the router's GUI.

My mistake then. I didn't think mine had the ability to configure a
static IP for the router. You can do it for the WAN port, but that's not
the same thing. I thought mine was hardcoded to be 192.168.0.1.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

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From: nos...@nospam.net (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2023 15:15:42 +0000
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 15:15 UTC

Zaghadka wrote:

> My mistake then. I didn't think mine had the ability to configure a
> static IP for the router. You can do it for the WAN port, but that's not
> the same thing. I thought mine was hardcoded to be 192.168.0.1.

I used to set my gateway to 10.20.30.40 because I thought, at the time,
that anyone could "guess" that it's 192.168.{0,1}.1 but over time, it
became a pain to constantly change all the defaults so I let it go.

I used to change the router MAC addresses for the same reason, but then I
realized you can't change the _one_ MAC that matters most for privacy.

For most of us (all of us?) the incoming WAN IP address is handed to us by
the ISP, where mine is a WISP so mine comes to me from a variety of access
points, all of which are miles away (so my WAN is set to get it by DHCP).
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg> Typical range is about 10 miles

Given most of us are using MAC randomization now, that negates the
"assignment" of a static IP on the router to be handed to devices.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Rh87RNrV/macaddr02.jpg> Random MAC on every connect

This is particularly pernicious when you have an iPad as Android handles
the MAC randomization better (IMHO) in that Android 10 made it the default
for MAC randomization per SSID (which routers can easily handle); but
Android 11 added the capability (which I use all the time) for MAC
randomization per connection (which routers have a hard time handling).

Hence, for a "static IP address" on my Android, I make that request on the
phone itself, using a set of IP addresses outside the router DHCP range.

I never fully understood how reserving IP addresses works, but if you
randomize your MAC address per connection, it's harder on the router.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nchSVcmS/vysor30.jpg> Static/Reserved IP address

If you ask why you want a static IP address when you're randomizing the MAC
on every connections, it's because of Windows scripts I use with Android.
<https://i.postimg.cc/5NrK7jtg/scrcpy16.jpg> powershell hide-console trick

Some of those scripts use the Android unique serial number though, and
therefore those scripts which don't need a static IP address work anyway.
<https://i.postimg.cc/tgvzsMRm/scrcpy25.jpg> Connect over Wi-Fi sans USB

But many of the Windows networking scripts require the Android IP address.
<https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg> Both sdcards mounted

These scripts are mostly needed when you're networking Android to Windows.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hjkVFyqJ/scrcpy07.jpg> Android mnt as drive letter

Such that, for example, you download a file on Windows and it's on Android.
<https://i.postimg.cc/9FJMKYch/scrcpy21.jpg> Windows Drive: === Android

By doing this magic, you can now just _slide_ APKs from Windows to Android
and they automatically install themselves, which makes setup really easy.
<https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg> Drag APK from Windows

Of course, I'm sure if you're a good Windows coder, you don't need a static
IP address in your scripts so then you can concentrate on solving the fact
that Android randomizes every Wi-Fi connection to the PC using a unique
so-called Wi-Fi Debugging Pairing Code (which changes on every connect).
<https://i.postimg.cc/SRRXtvKh/adb16.jpg> Android 12 Wireless Pairing

If someone could solve _that_ problem, they'd be a genius in my book.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully add related technical experience.

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2023 11:46:39 -0600
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 by: Zaghadka - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:46 UTC

On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:49 -0600, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Zaghadka
wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 17:08:46 -0600, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Char
>Jackson wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 13:12:14 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 17:27:47 -0200, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, dan wrote:
>>>
>>>>But how would I turn the old router from routing into a "dumb" switch?
>>>
>>>Basically, you don't. You will get more complicated answers. But they
>>>will vary from "not worth it" to "you can't."
>>
>>You may not have read the thread or you'd see that it's beyond simple.
>>
>>Disable DHCP, configure a static LAN IP, and don't use the WAN port. Now
>>you have an unmanaged switch, and you can do it with virtually every
>>SOHO router, with or without WiFi. No extra software required, you can
>>do those simple tasks right from the router's GUI.
>
>My mistake then. I didn't think mine had the ability to configure a
>static IP for the router. You can do it for the WAN port, but that's not
>the same thing. I thought mine was hardcoded to be 192.168.0.1.

Finally found it! Netgear R7000. It was very, very buried on the advanced
page (LAN setup). It simply doesn't exist on the basic page.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

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Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
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 by: DanS - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 17:46 UTC

Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com> wrote in
news:ttufsu$t021$1@dont-email.me:


> In the end analysis, assuming you have a normal dual access
> point router set up either as a wireless client bridge or
> as a wireless repeater, as far as I can tell from thinking
> about it, both do the same job except the wireless repeater
> is restricted to connecting to only another router (and not
> another access point) and the wireless repeater is limited
> in speed.

Your end analysis isn't quite on the mark.

First off, a router and access point, are technically two different things. A router (in the
SOHO world) is a device that provides NAT translation so many different IP devcies
'inside' the network can share one sinlge 'global' IP address.

An access point, is a wireless device acting as a master radio, that multiple clients can
connect to to get onto a LAN.

A router can be standalone, an access point can be standalone, or it can be a combo-
device offering both functionalites.

So why use an old router as a 'client bridge'? For one, to extend the network, and offer
additional wired ports for other devices. OK...that's it. For one...There is no other use
than to provide a LAN connection for a group of wired devices that may not have
wireless capabilities of their own. Three devices can be wired into the LAN ports, and
then all three share the wireless connectivity back to the main AP. One thing it does
do, however, is provide slightly better aggregate throughput, back to that main AP.
There is only one WLAN connection serving those three devices, rather than all three
of them trying to coordinate their WLAN functionality separately.

The other thing, if that old router/AP, IS concurrent dual band, you may be able to
connect the WLAN devices on 2.4, and 'backhaul' it to the main AP at 5.8 or visa-
versa. That way, no speed is 'cut in half' receiving and then retransmitting on the same
AP. Any speed loss that way, is based on the quality and max connection speed of 2.4
& 5.8G connections to said repeater, not because it gets cut in half trying to
rebroadcast on the same 2.4 or 5.8Ghz AP.

But, WIRED IS ALWAYS BETTER for reliability and speeds.

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

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 by: nospam - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 20:24 UTC

In article <XnsAFC382006F148thisnthatroadrunnern@69.80.101.19>, DanS
<t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote:

>
> The other thing, if that old router/AP, IS concurrent dual band, you may be
> able to
> connect the WLAN devices on 2.4, and 'backhaul' it to the main AP at 5.8 or
> visa-
> versa. That way, no speed is 'cut in half' receiving and then retransmitting
> on the same
> AP. Any speed loss that way, is based on the quality and max connection speed
> of 2.4
> & 5.8G connections to said repeater, not because it gets cut in half trying
> to
> rebroadcast on the same 2.4 or 5.8Ghz AP.

true but in that scenario, you'd be limited to 2.4gz speeds, which are
*slow*.

a better option is a tri-band unit, which uses a second 5ghz band for
the backhaul. there are also quad-band routers.

an even better option (in most cases) is a wired backhaul, however,
wired isn't always an option, and for wifi 6 (and later), wired gigabit
will be a bottleneck.

> But, WIRED IS ALWAYS BETTER for reliability and speeds.

not always. that depends on the wire and wireless.

wifi 6 is *faster* than gigabit wired ethernet, but not as fast as
2.5/5/10gb-e wired, which although not common (yet), is starting to
become more prevalent.

most people have gigabit, making it the limiting factor, which is why
many wifi 6 routers have at least one 2.5gb port, some 10gb-e.

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

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Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
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 by: DanS - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:24 UTC

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
news:100320231524307943%nospam@nospam.invalid:

> In article
> <XnsAFC382006F148thisnthatroadrunnern@69.80.101.19>, DanS
> <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> The other thing, if that old router/AP, IS concurrent dual
>> band, you may be able to
>> connect the WLAN devices on 2.4, and 'backhaul' it to the
>> main AP at 5.8 or visa-
>> versa. That way, no speed is 'cut in half' receiving and
>> then retransmitting on the same
>> AP. Any speed loss that way, is based on the quality and
>> max connection speed of 2.4
>> & 5.8G connections to said repeater, not because it gets
>> cut in half trying to
>> rebroadcast on the same 2.4 or 5.8Ghz AP.
>
> true but in that scenario, you'd be limited to 2.4gz
> speeds, which are *slow*.

That is true. But I was just repurposing old gear.

> a better option is a tri-band unit, which uses a second
> 5ghz band for the backhaul. there are also quad-band
> routers.
>
> an even better option (in most cases) is a wired backhaul,
> however, wired isn't always an option, and for wifi 6 (and
> later), wired gigabit will be a bottleneck.
>
>> But, WIRED IS ALWAYS BETTER for reliability and speeds.
>
> not always. that depends on the wire and wireless.
>
> wifi 6 is *faster* than gigabit wired ethernet, but not as
> fast as 2.5/5/10gb-e wired, which although not common
> (yet), is starting to become more prevalent.

Sure, in theory. In a real-world scenario, I'd doubt it. Beleive me, my job *is* wireless.

So, the signalling rate of 2 chain AC radios is up to 866 mbps. I've done a lot of testing,
with these, and the max actual user throughput, is around 600mbps, using UDP only.
To get that speed, you need pristine conditions, signal level up in the neg 40's, and one
AP with only one client.

Once other devices are added to the mix, at different signal levels, which use different
modulation rates, you will never get an aggregate user bandwidth even near that
600mbps mark.

Even WiFi-6 same, thing. Sure, the high theoretical throughput sounds great, but once
you add devices that aren't operating at the highest mod rates at strong signal
levels...that will drop.

In reality, GB ethernet isn't 1GB in speed. It's typically full duplex, so simultaneously
1GB in each direction (subject to the capabilities of the PC/switch/gear of the action).

This page has a chart for AC gear, that tells you the required RSSI per modulation rate.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/wi-fi-explained-part-iii-assi-abramovitz/

These are theoretical minimum signal levels. This is without multipath, without other
vying for signal time, without outside interference.

Those really high speed numbers for AX are also based on really wide channels, like
160MHz wide, which is 8 'standard' 20mhz wide channels. Right there, subject to
massive interference.

I'm going to stick with my original statement...

....for performance and reliability, wired will always beat wireless, at this time.

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

<130320232227338438%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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 by: nospam - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 02:27 UTC

In article <XnsAFC47E35FB124thisnthatroadrunnern@69.80.101.13>, DanS
<t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote:

> >> But, WIRED IS ALWAYS BETTER for reliability and speeds.
> >
> > not always. that depends on the wire and wireless.
> >
> > wifi 6 is *faster* than gigabit wired ethernet, but not as
> > fast as 2.5/5/10gb-e wired, which although not common
> > (yet), is starting to become more prevalent.
>
> Sure, in theory. In a real-world scenario, I'd doubt it. Beleive me, my job
> *is* wireless.
>
> So, the signalling rate of 2 chain AC radios is up to 866 mbps. I've done a
> lot of testing,

ac (wifi 5) is old.

ax (wifi 6) is the current norm, with wifi 6e available (although
expensive) and soon wifi 7.

> Once other devices are added to the mix, at different signal levels, which
> use different
> modulation rates, you will never get an aggregate user bandwidth even near
> that
> 600mbps mark.

other devices slow down wired connections too.

> Even WiFi-6 same, thing. Sure, the high theoretical throughput sounds great,
> but once
> you add devices that aren't operating at the highest mod rates at strong
> signal
> levels...that will drop.

legacy devices can go on 2.4ghz (or a second or even third 5ghz band if
available). mimo also helps.

> In reality, GB ethernet isn't 1GB in speed. It's typically full duplex, so
> simultaneously
> 1GB in each direction (subject to the capabilities of the PC/switch/gear of
> the action).

it's slightly less. the difference is not significant in this context.

> This page has a chart for AC gear, that tells you the required RSSI per
> modulation rate.

again, ac is old.

real world wifi 6 (ax) speeds at 10 feet, topping out over 1.6 gbit/s:
<https://i0.wp.com/dongknows.com/wp-content/uploads/Asus-GT-AX11000-Pro-
Wi-Fi-AX-Performance-Short-Range.png>

real world wifi 6 (ax) speeds at 40 feet, topping out over 1.4 gbit/s
(although a different router):
<https://i0.wp.com/dongknows.com/wp-content/uploads/Asus-GT-AX11000-Pro-
Wi-Fi-AX-Performance-Long-Range.png>

note the sharp drop-off for routers with gigabit ports, which top out
just over 0.9 gbit/s, a little more than half that of the fastest
multi-gig router.

> Those really high speed numbers for AX are also based on really wide
> channels, like
> 160MHz wide, which is 8 'standard' 20mhz wide channels. Right there, subject
> to
> massive interference.

there isn't that much interference, most clients support 80 mhz and two
mesh units can use a 160 mhz backhaul.

> I'm going to stick with my original statement...
>
> ...for performance and reliability, wired will always beat wireless, at this time.

and i'm going to stick to mine, that that it's not that clear cut.

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

<XnsAFC77114C31A4thisnthatroadrunnern@69.80.102.22>

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Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch
From: t.h.i.s....@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m (DanS)
References: <ttthn7$2f3or$1@paganini.bofh.team> <k6f1pjF68l5U1@mid.individual.net> <i2050i1vt0s65v30hak1rht23fovs95jc5@4ax.com> <ttu95e$2m1r5$1@paganini.bofh.team> <9ga50i5fna05h5brsg58i1vflfdnt17bq5@4ax.com> <ttue6k$sr7t$1@dont-email.me> <ttufsu$t021$1@dont-email.me> <XnsAFC382006F148thisnthatroadrunnern@69.80.101.19> <100320231524307943%nospam@nospam.invalid> <XnsAFC47E35FB124thisnthatroadrunnern@69.80.101.13> <130320232227338438%nospam@nospam.invalid>
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 by: DanS - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:07 UTC

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
news:130320232227338438%nospam@nospam.invalid:


> again, ac is old.

No sh*t?

>
> real world wifi 6 (ax) speeds at 10 feet, topping out over
> 1.6 gbit/s:
> <https://i0.wp.com/dongknows.com/wp-content/uploads/Asus-GT-
> AX11000-Pro- Wi-Fi-AX-Performance-Short-Range.png>
>
> real world wifi 6 (ax) speeds at 40 feet, topping out over
> 1.4 gbit/s (although a different router):
> <https://i0.wp.com/dongknows.com/wp-content/uploads/Asus-GT-
> AX11000-Pro- Wi-Fi-AX-Performance-Long-Range.png>
>
> note the sharp drop-off for routers with gigabit ports,
> which top out just over 0.9 gbit/s, a little more than half
> that of the fastest multi-gig router.

Note, those are tests of ONE router, with ONE client that is capable if WiFi6.

That is just not real world.

Let's see with a few other devices of varying capabilities. Maybe one wireless
streaming Netflix, another XBox playing a network game, and several phones, etc. And
let's have varying distances and obstructions, like a home would have.

Re: How do I turn a spare router into a dumb switch

<140320231654419444%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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 by: nospam - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 20:54 UTC

In article <XnsAFC77114C31A4thisnthatroadrunnern@69.80.102.22>, DanS
<t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote:

> > real world wifi 6 (ax) speeds at 10 feet, topping out over
> > 1.6 gbit/s:
> > <https://i0.wp.com/dongknows.com/wp-content/uploads/Asus-GT-
> > AX11000-Pro- Wi-Fi-AX-Performance-Short-Range.png>
> >
> > real world wifi 6 (ax) speeds at 40 feet, topping out over
> > 1.4 gbit/s (although a different router):
> > <https://i0.wp.com/dongknows.com/wp-content/uploads/Asus-GT-
> > AX11000-Pro- Wi-Fi-AX-Performance-Long-Range.png>
> >
> > note the sharp drop-off for routers with gigabit ports,
> > which top out just over 0.9 gbit/s, a little more than half
> > that of the fastest multi-gig router.
>
> Note, those are tests of ONE router, with ONE client that is capable if WiFi6.

correct, which is what's needed for a comparison without adding any
confounding factors.

> That is just not real world.

it's very much real world, versus the (inflated) marketing numbers.

> Let's see with a few other devices of varying capabilities. Maybe one
> wireless
> streaming Netflix, another XBox playing a network game, and several phones,
> etc. And
> let's have varying distances and obstructions, like a home would have.

that has nothing to do with wired versus wireless, and anyone can
create a scenario to fit whatever conclusion they want.

nevertheless, in the above scenario, a gaming router (which is
basically just canned qos settings) would be a good choice for
prioritizing the xbox. streaming video doesn't use much bandwidth and
phones are normally idle (and rarely use much bandwidth when not), so
custom qos settings might not even be needed.

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