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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

SubjectAuthor
* Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleMichael
+* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleAndy Burns
|+* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command examplePaul
||+* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleBill
|||`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command examplePaul
||| `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleCarlos E.R.
||`- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleCommander Kinsey
|`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command examplegtr
| `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleAndy Burns
|  `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command examplegtr
+* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleVanguardLH
|`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleMichael
| `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleVanguardLH
+* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleChar Jackson
|`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleStan Brown
| `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleChar Jackson
+* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleZaidy036
|`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleCarlos E.R.
| `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleStan Brown
`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer
 `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  +* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer
  |`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  | `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer
  |  `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleVanguardLH
  |   +* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer
  |   |+- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   |+* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleVanguardLH
  |   ||`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   || +* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer
  |   || |`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   || | +- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleBugsy
  |   || | `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer
  |   || |  `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   || |   `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer
  |   || |    `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   || |     `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer
  |   || |      `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   || |       `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer
  |   || |        `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   || `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleVanguardLH
  |   ||  `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   ||   `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleVanguardLH
  |   ||    `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   ||     `* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleVanguardLH
  |   ||      +* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleStan Brown
  |   ||      |`- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHeron
  |   ||      `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  |   |`* Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleKen Blake
  |   | `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFrank Slootweg
  |   `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleFreethinker
  `- Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command exampleHerbert Kleebauer

Pages:123
Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

<tv7dmd$33109$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=69798&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#69798

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: kle...@unibwm.de (Herbert Kleebauer)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 17:36:29 +0100
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 by: Herbert Kleebauer - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:36 UTC

On 19.03.2023 14:54, VanguardLH wrote:
> Note: OP originally posted to:
>
> alt.comp.os.windows-10
> alt.comp.os.windows-11
> alt.internet.wireless
>
> When Kleebauer replied, he stripped out the last 2 newsgroups leaving:
>
> alt.comp.os.Windows-10

Because I couldn't post the message when it was cross posted to
these 3 groups. news.aioe.org doesn't exist anymore so I now use
news.eternal-september.org and there is no alt.comp.os.windows-11
so I replied only to the group I have subscribed.

> Then when he replied later, he added:>
> alt.comp.microsoft.windows

No, freethinker added in a reply the two groups:

alt.comp.microsoft.windows
alt.internet.wireless

Because alt.comp.microsoft.windows is is available here,
I only dropped alt.internet.wireless.

> which does not exist on my NNTP server. Maybe it does on his.
> Regardless of cause, I removed the *.windows newsgroup since it was
> probably a typo. My reply was therefore submitted to just:
>
> alt.comp.os.windows-10

No, you cross posted also to:

alt.comp.microsoft.windows

> If I added back the original 2 newsgroups that Kleebauer stripped, this
> subthread would appear disconnected from the *.windows-11 and *.wireless
> newsgroups perhaps causing confusing for why there was missing posts.

Usenet is dead, especially the alt. hierarchy.

> Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> wrote:
>> Freethinker wrote:
>>
>>> We're both doing the same thing but different ways.
>>> You're using the PATH for what it was designed for.
>>> I'm using the AppPaths for what it was designed for.
>>
>> I think, there is a big difference. The first is "one for all"
>> and the second "one for one". I add a single directory to
>> the PATH variable when I set up a new PC. That's all what
>> is needed for the current and all future utilities I use.
>> You have to do it for any utility you use and, if you setup
>> a new PC, you have to do it again for all of them.

> AppPaths is defined in the registry under:
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths

> The PATH environment variable consists of sysPATH (global) and userPATH
> (per Windows account).

> Unlike PATH which can have sys (global) and user constituents, the
> AppPaths registry entries are under HKLM, so everyone sees those.
>
> Sorry if I misunderstood. In "one for all" and "one for one", no way to
> tell which one was which.

Yes, you misunderstood completely what I said. I have more than
100 utilities (.exe .com .bat) in d:\dos622\befehle (many don't
work anymore in 64 bit Windows because they are 16 bit code).
By just adding one entry to the PATH variable when setting up
a new PC, all these utilities are available from any directory
in a CMD window because there location is in the PATH variable.
That's what I called "one (entry) for all (utilities)".

If you use the AppPaths method, you need a registry entry for
each of the more than 100 utilities. That's what I called "one
(entry) for one (utilities)". And if you get a new PC, you have
to create all these entries again.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

<tv7fa9$339r5$1@dont-email.me>

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From: freethin...@mymail.com (Freethinker)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:04:24 +0200
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 by: Freethinker - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 17:04 UTC

On 19.03.23 14:54, VanguardLH wrote:
>> I think, there is a big difference. The first is "one for all"
>> and the second "one for one". I add a single directory to
>> the PATH variable when I set up a new PC. That's all what
>> is needed for the current and all future utilities I use.
>> You have to do it for any utility you use and, if you setup
>> a new PC, you have to do it again for all of them.
>
> AppPaths is defined in the registry under:
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> \___ Everyone gets this.
>
> The definition is under HKLM, so every Windows account will see those
> definitions.

I think Herbert meant every physical computer gets it if you copy it over.

It's really two different ways to approach the same problem set where
there's nothing stopping you from exporting the Windows AppPaths key on one
computer and importing it to the second, third, fourth, etc computer.

In fact, that's exactly what I do, which is why I said I'll be using his
batch file solution on all my computers a decade or more from now.

There's nothing to remember on any computer once you copy stuff over.
Win+R & then manpath (and then hit the enter key).

Where of course I have the Win+R already pinned to the taskbar so it's just
(Click on the taskbar Win+R icon) > manpath (and then hit the enter key).

It would be nice to list the pros and cons of each method, where I can't
think of any reason why _both_ methods can't work seamlessly together.

I assume most people use the $PATH though because they don't know about
AppPaths, but Herbert has a better system than most people because it's my
assumption that most people constantly add more and more paths to the path.

Herbert does not do that.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

<tv7gaf$33fnb$1@dont-email.me>

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From: freethin...@mymail.com (Freethinker)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:21:35 +0200
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 by: Freethinker - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 17:21 UTC

On 19.03.23 18:36, Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
> Yes, you misunderstood completely what I said. I have more than
> 100 utilities (.exe .com .bat) in d:\dos622\befehle (many don't
> work anymore in 64 bit Windows because they are 16 bit code).
> By just adding one entry to the PATH variable when setting up
> a new PC, all these utilities are available from any directory
> in a CMD window because there location is in the PATH variable.
> That's what I called "one (entry) for all (utilities)".

Each method has pros and cons where there's nothing preventing a user from
implementing both methods and copying them to every computer for years on
end (where it's two easy and obvious steps on that second computer).

I don't use your single-path method but I assume you first copy over the
directory to the second computer & then you append that location to the
$PATH and voila, you have a replication that works on every computer.

I follow the same two-step approach for every computer by first copying
over the batch file directory and then importing the App Paths registry sub
key to that second computer, and voila, I have an exact replication too.

To do both would be a combination culminating in a three-step process.
[1] First you copy the batch file hierarchy from PC1 to PC2, PC3, etc.
[2] Then Herbert appends the path to that hierarchy on PC2, PC3, etc.
[3] Then I import the AppPaths registry subkey into PC2, PC3, etc.

At that point, both methods work on PC2, PC3, etc.

One mainly works from the command line ($PATH).
The other mainly works off the task bar (App Paths).

Each have their pros and cons, such as the Windows RUN command *remembers*
what you typed into it so you can just scroll down the list of all the
previously used commands while the Windows command line doesn't have a
history that I know of (I wish it did but that's why commands are made to
be easily remembered).

Another pro of the App Paths method is you can easily have two commands
with the exact same name (if you want to do that), which can sometimes
happen (such as "update" or "todo" or "calendar" or whatever).

With the $PATH, not only can you not have two commands with the same name
in the same single entry, but if you have the same command in different
locations, you have to remember which location is first in the path because
it will (almost) never find the same-name command in the second location.

As I said, each method has its own pros and cons but both are easy.

It's just that most people aren't aware of the App Paths sub key while
everyone knows about the $PATH.
> If you use the AppPaths method, you need a registry entry for
> each of the more than 100 utilities. That's what I called "one
> (entry) for one (utilities)". And if you get a new PC, you have
> to create all these entries again.

What would be nice would be to list the pros and cons of each method.

For example, the App Paths method works nicely on the taskbar and it
remembers what you used and presents a short list to you if you want.

The $PATH method works nicely on the command line, but it doesn't have that
history (that I know of) but it works without needing to use the Win+R key.

Maybe we should work together to list the pros and cons, but those seem to
me to be the main differences, where copying the command to PC2 and PC3
isn't a problem because it's the same two-step process of copying the
directory of commands, and then copying over either the $PATH addition, or
importing the text file of the registry addition.

Same thing. Two different ways. Slightly different. But same end result.
Win+R manpage enter

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

<1mhys263xn7di.dlg@v.nguard.lh>

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From: V...@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:29:45 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:29 UTC

Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> wrote:

> No, you cross posted also to:
>
> alt.comp.microsoft.windows

Yeah, realized I hadn't edited the Newsgroups header before I submitted
after I hit the Send button. Got interrupted with a delivery, so I sent
immediately since I didn't know when I'd be back. My fuckup. However,
since you say alt.comp.microsoft.windows is available on your NNTP
server, probably a good thing I accidentally left it included in reply,
so I left it in for this reply, too.

> Usenet is dead, especially the alt. hierarchy.

Oh, we must be zombies that still have fingers on our rotting corpses to
type in replies. I might look like one in the morning until I shave,
shower, and have some coffee.

Noobs were weaned on web browsers. The vast majority of users haven't a
clue what is NNTP, or how to configure an NNTP client. We die off, the
noobs stick with the Web, so Usenet dies as we old farts die.

> Yes, you misunderstood completely what I said. I have more than
> 100 utilities (.exe .com .bat) in d:\dos622\befehle (many don't
> work anymore in 64 bit Windows because they are 16 bit code).
> By just adding one entry to the PATH variable when setting up
> a new PC, all these utilities are available from any directory
> in a CMD window because there location is in the PATH variable.
> That's what I called "one (entry) for all (utilities)".

Again, depends on whether you added the path to sysPATH or userPATH. If
added to sysPATH, every Windows account will have PATH envvar pointing
to your tools path. If added to userPATH, only your Windows account
will have PATH envvar pointing to your tools path. Not mentioned is
*how* you are adding your tools path to the PATH envvar.

> If you use the AppPaths method, you need a registry entry for
> each of the more than 100 utilities. That's what I called "one
> (entry) for one (utilities)". And if you get a new PC, you have
> to create all these entries again.

Or export the regkey to a .reg file, and include in your backups. On a
new setup, just 'run' the .reg file. If you want just the apppaths
listed for only your tools, edit the .reg file to remove other entries
before including the .reg file in your backups.

Personally using the AppPaths registry entries should really only be
done by installers. Far too much a nuisance for a user to be
monitoring, editing, exporting, backing up, and restoring these registry
entries. So, I, like you, use the PATH envvar. Since I want access to
my utilities under any Windows account, the tools path gets added to the
sysPATH. I really don't want to add it to userPATH since I want to use
those tools under any Windows account, including Administrator if shit
happens and I need to resort to use that account that I would otherwise
never touch except for emergencies (and because user profiles can get
corrupted, I also have an AdminBackup account as a backup to the
emergency-only Administrator account).

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

<s20f1ihe6kdfhdcpumh02p311p9k2n8gra@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:36:58 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 21:36 UTC

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 17:36:29 +0100, Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de>
wrote:

>Usenet is dead, especially the alt. hierarchy.

Certainly dying, but fortunately not yet dead.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

<tv9ri0.bec.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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From: thi...@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: 20 Mar 2023 13:45:29 GMT
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 by: Frank Slootweg - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:45 UTC

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 17:36:29 +0100, Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de>
> wrote:
>
> >Usenet is dead, especially the alt. hierarchy.
>
> Certainly dying, but fortunately not yet dead.

After our extended holiday there were some 8,000 articles waiting in 6
high volume groups. Not dead at all, I would say! :-)

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: freethin...@mymail.com (Freethinker)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 21:09:25 +0200
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 by: Freethinker - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 19:09 UTC

On 20.03.23 00:59, VanguardLH wrote:
> Personally using the AppPaths registry entries should really only be
> done by installers. Far too much a nuisance for a user to be
> monitoring, editing, exporting, backing up, and restoring these registry
> entries. So, I, like you, use the PATH envvar. Since I want access to
> my utilities under any Windows account, the tools path gets added to the
> sysPATH. I really don't want to add it to userPATH since I want to use
> those tools under any Windows account, including Administrator if shit
> happens and I need to resort to use that account that I would otherwise
> never touch except for emergencies (and because user profiles can get
> corrupted, I also have an AdminBackup account as a backup to the
> emergency-only Administrator account).

I think there is nothing wrong with using %path% but it has severe
limitations which the App Paths sub key does not have (and vice versa).

They are different.

For example, if you want to open up the Windows font folder, you just type
"Win+R fonts" and if you want to edit one of your files you type "Win+R
myfile" or if you want to run any of your shortcuts you type "Win+R
myshortcut", etc.

You can do all that using the %path% as Herbert suggested but unless you
put all your executables and shortcuts and batch files into the same
folder, it will mess up %path% won't it?

Worse, how do you run firefox.exe from three different locations using the
%path% when it's super trivial to run each of those from the App Paths
subkey (as explained in another thread on the subject I posted later)?

You can also run programs and open up folders and run any shortcut.
These are just off the cuff examples I typed up for Stan Brown.

This is my App Paths sub key to bring up all the %keywords% from MS.
HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\%.exe
@Default=C:\path\keywords.ppt
Which lists all the %keyword% Windows keywords for me, lest I forget.
%PATH% �V C:\Windows\system32;C:\Windows;C:\Windows\System32\Wbem
%PATHEXT% �V .com;.exe;.bat;.cmd;.vbs;.vbe;.js;.jse;.wsf;.wsh;.msc
%HOMEPATH% -C:\Users\<username>
%LOCALAPPDATA% �V C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local
%PSMODULEPATH% �V %SystemRoot%\system32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\Modules\

The App Path is useful if you want to open something up without having to
create a shortcut (although the App Path can run a shortcut also).

It's probably important to note (because it's not intuitive) that the name
of the subkey can be anything but it must end with "exe" for some reason.

To take a common example likely everyone has, this common app path sub key:
HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\firefox.exe
@Default=C:\path\firefox.exe
Doesn't actually have to be "firefox.exe" but even "f.exe" would work.
HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f.exe
@Default=C:\path\firefox.exe

That is, the only meaningful part of the sub key name is the "exe" and the
fact that it has to be a unique sub key within the App Paths registry key.

That gives you an advantage if, for example, you want to make a few Firefox
App Paths sub keys (which I haven't tested) such as this off the cuff set.

HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f1.exe
@Default=C:\path\firefox.exe (with no options invoked)

HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f2.exe
@Default=C:\path\firefox.exe (with one set of options invoked)

HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f3.exe
@Default=C:\path\firefox.exe (with another set of options invoked)

Where those sets of options can be targets inside separate shortcuts,
but where those shortcuts don't have to clutter your GUI if you use
them a lot at all you need to remember is f1, f2 and f3 to run them.

In addition, you might have firefox in your path but maybe you want to run
a different firefox, which the App Paths sub key allows you to easily do.

HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f4.exe
@Default=C:\different-path\firefox.exe

To run each of these, you'd only need to pin the Win+R icon to the taskbar
and then tap that icon and a selection of previous choices can be made
from a list of the most recently used that Windows automatically maintains.

You can turn that remembering off, of course, and of course you can always
check your App Paths subkey if you forget the names you assigned to them.

To import into a second computer, of course you'd need to be well
organized that you put your scripts and folders in the same location.

Notice that it also opens documents, which I use for frequently used stuff.
HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\doc1.exe
@Default=C:\path\document.txt

HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\doc2.exe
@Default=C:\path\document.xls

HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\doc3.exe
@Default=C:\path\document.pdf

Once you decide to run shortcuts, you can do almost anything with them.
HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\whatismyipaddress.exe
C:\path\runcurl.lnk
Where the shortcut runcurl.lnk has the following target
%comspec% /k %windir%\system32\curl.exe icanhazip.com

HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\archives.exe
C:\path\archives.lnk
Where the shortcut archives.lnk has the following target
%comspec% /c %windir%\explorer.exe c:\path\archives

HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\admin.exe
C:\path\admim.bat
Where admin.bat sets an obvious color when it invokes an admin window.
@ECHO OFF
SETLOCAL ENABLEEXTENSIONS
IF NOT "%~1"=="" goto :START
SET LogFile=%TEMP%\admin.vbs"
Echo Set UAC = CreateObject("Shell.Application") >"%LogFile%"
Echo UAC.ShellExecute "%~f0", "%cd%", "", "runas", 1 >>"%LogFile%"
Start "" /MIN "%LogFile%"
goto :EOF
:START
cmd /k "CD /D "%*" & Echo Administrator: & color 4F"
REM runas.exe /user:administrator /savecred "put your command here instead, to skip UAC"
:EOF

It's advised to maintain a summary document that explains them all.
HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\apppaths.exe
C:\path\my_app_paths.doc

Which, brings up, for example, something like this quick summary.
Win+R % (brings up all the Windows keywords)
Win+R firefox (runs the default firefox with no options
Win+R f1 (runs a different firefox with no options invoked
Win+R f2 (runs firefox with one set of options invoked
Win+R f3 (runs firefox with another set of options invoked
Win+R f4 (runs yet another firefox)
Win+R doc1 (opens a text document for edit)
Win+R doc2 (opens an excel document for edit)
Win+R doc3 (opens a pdf document for edit)
Win+R whatismyipaddress (determines your current WAN/VPN IP address)
Win+R archives (opens the archives folder in Windows file explorer)
Win+R admin (opens an obvious red administrator command window)
Win+R apppaths (opens a Word document of the app paths subkeys)

Be advised that invoking the app paths sub key does not create the
document but an empty document in its place will work for starters.

While I never change the %path%, there is nothing preventing anyone from
using both the Windows %path% and the App Paths sub key as intended.

If you find out that App Paths does even better stuff, let me know as
I'm always using this feature of Windows 10 every day many times a day.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: kle...@unibwm.de (Herbert Kleebauer)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 01:22:20 +0100
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 by: Herbert Kleebauer - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 00:22 UTC

On 18.03.2023 02:01, Freethinker wrote:

> This is probably what I'll use for the next decade or two because
> it's simple and obvious and elegant enough to be easily remembered
> and when needed, it's eminently extensible as it's self explanatory.

Here a more usable version. Just insert the text between the two lines;

@@keyword
$$keyword

Press q to close the window.

@echo off
if [%1]==[] goto :usage

findstr /b @@%1 %~f0>nul
if errorlevel 1 goto :usage
findstr /b $$%1 %~f0>nul
if errorlevel 1 goto :usage

for /f "tokens=1 delims=:" %%i in ('findstr /n /b @@%1 %~f0') do set m=%%i
for /f "tokens=1 delims=:" %%i in ('findstr /n /b $$%1 %~f0') do set n=%%i
set /a n=n-m
if %n% gtr 50 set /a n=50
mode con cols=100 lines=%n%
color 17
more +%m% %~f0
goto :eof

:usage
mode con cols=80 lines=25
color 17
set m=
for /f "tokens=* delims=@" %%i in ('findstr /b @@ %~f0') do call set m=%%m%% %%i
echo.&echo help available for:&echo.
call :sub %m%
echo.
pause
goto :eof

:sub
if [%1]==[] goto :eof
echo %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8
shift&shift&shift&shift&shift&shift&shift&shift
goto :sub

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

@@netsh

netsh interface ipv4 set address name="eth0" static 192.168.0.2 255.255.255.0 192.168.0.1

$$netsh

@@echo
Insert text about echo
$$echo

@@dir

Insert text about dir
$$dir

@@find

Insert text about find

$$find

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: kle...@unibwm.de (Herbert Kleebauer)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 01:53:26 +0100
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 by: Herbert Kleebauer - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 00:53 UTC

On 20.03.2023 20:09, Freethinker wrote:

> For example, if you want to open up the Windows font folder, you just type
> "Win+R fonts"

Or you type "start fonts" in a CMD window.

> You can do all that using the %path% as Herbert suggested but unless you
> put all your executables and shortcuts and batch files into the same
> folder, it will mess up %path% won't it?

There is no big difference, you put all im ONE registry and I put
it in ONE directory.

> Worse, how do you run firefox.exe from three different locations using the
> %path% when it's super trivial to run each of those from the App Paths
> subkey (as explained in another thread on the subject I posted later)?

You put 3 entries in the registry, I put 3 batch flies (f1.bat, f2.bat
f3.bat) in the directory which is in the PATH.

> You can also run programs and open up folders and run any shortcut.
> These are just off the cuff examples I typed up for Stan Brown.
>
> This is my App Paths sub key to bring up all the %keywords% from MS.
> HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\%.exe
> @Default=C:\path\keywords.ppt

And I could use a batch file with the content:

start C:\path\keywords.ppt

> In addition, you might have firefox in your path but maybe you want to run
> a different firefox, which the App Paths sub key allows you to easily do.
>
> HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f4.exe
> @Default=C:\different-path\firefox.exe

A batch file f4.bat with the content:

C:\different-path\firefox.exe

> To run each of these, you'd only need to pin the Win+R icon to the taskbar
> and then tap that icon and a selection of previous choices can be made
> from a list of the most recently used that Windows automatically maintains.

And where is the difference. You type f4 and firefox is started, either
because there is a batch file f4.bat in the PATH-directory or because
there is an entry in the registry.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: V...@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 19:38:33 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 00:38 UTC

Freethinker <freethinker@mymail.com> wrote:

> You can do all that using the %path% as Herbert suggested but unless
> you put all your executables and shortcuts and batch files into the
> same folder, it will mess up %path% won't it?

I have a C:\Batch folder containing all my .bat files. For some
programs, they're installed or copied under C:\Programs but in
subfolders for each program. I have added the subfolders to PATH for
SysInternals and Nirsoft, but the rest I don't use that often, so I just
use .bat files to find them which, of course, are in my C:\Batch folder.
So, I've got about 3 folders that I add to PATH (and in the sysPATH
envvar since I want the same access under any Windows account under
which I login, including the Administrator account used only for
emergencies): C:\Batch, C:\Programs\SysInternals, and
C:\Programs\Nirsoft. Any other progs under C:\Programs (each in their
own subfolder) are easily ran using the .bat files under C:\Batch. If I
add shortcuts to the Start menu, desktop, or Taskbar toolbars, well, the
path is already specified in the shortcut.

I consider the AppPaths registry entry for use by installers of
programs. That's really meant for their management. AppPaths is
intended for app registration.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/app-registration

As with the AppPaths registry key, there is an Applications registry key
for the same purpose. Apparently more app info can be stored under the
Applications/<prognam> keys than for AppPaths/<progname>. So, now you
have 2 keys, and all their subkeys, to track, synchronize, backup to
..reg file, and import.

If you edit the AppPaths and Applications subkeys, you could end up
fucking up what the installed added, and what the program expects.

> Worse, how do you run firefox.exe from three different locations using
> the %path% when it's super trivial to run each of those from the App
> Paths subkey (as explained in another thread on the subject I posted
> later)?

AppPaths and Applications registry keys only specify a single path to
the executable, not 3 selections for multiple paths.

If you are creating the AppPaths subkeys for multiple but separate
instances of Firefox, like a subkey named firefox.exe, another named
firefox2.exe, and another for firefox3.exe, why can't you do that using
shortcuts, or .bat files in your batch folder added to PATH?

> The App Path is useful if you want to open something up without having
> to create a shortcut (although the App Path can run a shortcut also).

Edit the registry to add a subkey under AppPaths, add all the subkeys
under that subkey for command->open, etc. Or define a shortcut. I
don't see one is easier than the other. In fact, to get all the
sub-subkeys correct under an AppPath/<progname> key is more difficult.

> It's probably important to note (because it's not intuitive) that the
> name of the subkey can be anything but it must end with "exe" for
> some reason.

The subkey for <progname> is expected to match on the executable
filename. That you give it a different program "name" in AppPaths is
because you're creating multiple keys pointing to the same program, but
supposedly something is different in each, like adding an argument to
the open command. You're creating multiple AppPath/<prog> subkeys with
different names like you creating multiple .bat files with different
names that call the same program, but with something different in each
..bat file for why there are multiples of them for the same program
(although with .bat files, you could use command-line arguments when
calling the batch file to specify how to different execute the program).

> To take a common example likely everyone has, this common app path sub
> key:
> HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\firefox.exe
> @Default=C:\path\firefox.exe
> Doesn't actually have to be "firefox.exe" but even "f.exe" would work.
> HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f.exe
> @Default=C:\path\firefox.exe

So, you are not defining separate AppPaths subkeys with differing
prognames, but creating aliases using AppPaths to point at the same
program? Harken the DOSKEY command, or same-content .bat files
executing the same scripts all residing in a folder added to PATH, or
differently named shortcuts all pointing to the same program. Several
ways to skin the same cat.

> Where those sets of options can be targets inside separate shortcuts,
> but where those shortcuts don't have to clutter your GUI if you use
> them a lot at all you need to remember is f1, f2 and f3 to run them.

Shortcuts never have to clutter a GUI. Put the .lnk shortcut files in a
folder you've added to your PATH envvar, like the same one where you're
storing all your .bat files. .lnk shortcut files are executable, so you
can call them from the command line, too. Create a shortcut on your
desktop. Have it load "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe"
(or whatever path you like where an instance is found - and works from
there) along with any command-line arguments. Then move it to your
common batch folder (which has been included in PATH). Name the
shortcut "fx12". In a command shell, run fx12.lnk (you have to include
the extension). Voila, Firefox opens from the shortcut stored in a
PATH'ed location.

> HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f4.exe
> @Default=C:\different-path\firefox.exe

That can run afoul of the program using its install-time defined
AppPaths subkey, like when it runs an external updater that expects run
the executable from the same path as where the updater was stored. Lots
of programs expect pathing to be consistent which means the user hasn't
fucked it up. That is why I said AppPaths (and Applications) are really
for installer-defined and program-managed pathing.

We can argue more example and scenarios, but it comes down to which is
easier to manage. For you, you like AppPaths (and might now explore the
Applications registry key, too). For others, they see no need to putz
around in the registry for what they similarly accomplish with PATH,
shortcuts, batch scripts, or other more "normal" methods of defining
executable paths and arguments.

I knew about AppPaths many years ago. Despite its possible convenience,
I didn't see it as a plausible means to management pathing from my
perspective, and I wasn't going to fuck with how installers, updaters,
or programs were expecting those keys to be defined.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: freethin...@mymail.com (Freethinker)
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 by: Freethinker - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 04:51 UTC

On 21.03.23 02:53, Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
> > For example, if you want to open up the Windows font folder, you just type
> > "Win+R fonts"
>
> Or you type "start fonts" in a CMD window.

Yes. But the App Paths works for thousands upon thousands of useful things,
whereas Microsoft only built in a few hundred things that work that way.

An example is Microsoft didn't build in a way to open up any desired
document just by typing a single word like "family" to open "family.xls".

Neither did Microsoft build in a way to open up a folder in a long path
by typing a single word like "archives" to open up your archival folder.

Likewise, Microsoft didn't build a way to run any shortcut simply by
typing a single word (one per shortcut) no matter where the links are
stored.

> > You can do all that using the %path% as Herbert suggested but unless you
> > put all your executables and shortcuts and batch files into the same
> > folder, it will mess up %path% won't it?
>
> There is no big difference, you put all im ONE registry and I put
> it in ONE directory.

I never said your method didn't work as it works fine.

But if you've searched for something in Windows even once, then that's more
searches than I've needed to run in two decades, just to find my own stuff.

An example of where it's ludicrous that people search for the simplest
things, which I sure you do not do but many people do, is that people use
the search to open up an administrator command window.

Of course Windows supplies a way to open an admin command if you know the
three keys to press after cmd, but what if you want a blue command window
and a red one side by side? You can do that by typing "blue" and then "red"
when you use the App Paths subkey.

Could you do that a different way?
Sure.

In your method, I'm sure you'll put a blue.bat and red.bat in a single path
and then open up a command window and type "blue" and "red" to open them.

In the App Paths method, it's the same single word but the shortcuts or
batch files can be in any path. You could even have multiple blue.bat files
and the App Paths method will call them (lightblue => blue.bat, darkblue
=>blue.bat) where blue.bat is in multiple locations).

App Paths doesn't subtract functionality.
It adds it.


> > Worse, how do you run firefox.exe from three different locations using the
> > %path% when it's super trivial to run each of those from the App Paths
> > subkey (as explained in another thread on the subject I posted later)?
>
> You put 3 entries in the registry, I put 3 batch flies (f1.bat, f2.bat
> f3.bat) in the directory which is in the PATH.

No arguments. All those have to be in the %path% though, whereas with the
App Paths sub key, they can be anywhere you want (even on a portable drive)
and there is no need to slow down Windows always looking on the portable
drive when Windows runs down the %path% to find something.

> > You can also run programs and open up folders and run any shortcut.
> > These are just off the cuff examples I typed up for Stan Brown.
> >
> > This is my App Paths sub key to bring up all the %keywords% from MS.
> > HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\%.exe
> > @Default=C:\path\keywords.ppt
>
> And I could use a batch file with the content:
>
> start C:\path\keywords.ppt

I never said there wasn't more than one way to skin a cat.
This App Paths subkey is designed by Microsoft to be additive.

If you don't want to put an external USB drive in your path, but if you
have a batch file, document or shortcut sitting on that external drive, you
can still run (or open) them with a single word with the App Paths sub key.

Otherwise you may have to add the external drive to your path and that
stinks although you're clever enough to have the command self modify the
path so there are always going to be multiple ways to skin a cat.

Can you find even one negative to the App Paths capability?

I don't mean can you find something it can't do, but I'm asking if I use
the App Paths subkey, am I *losing* any functionality (or only gaining it)?

> > In addition, you might have firefox in your path but maybe you want to run
> > a different firefox, which the App Paths sub key allows you to easily do.
> >
> > HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f4.exe
> > @Default=C:\different-path\firefox.exe
>
> A batch file f4.bat with the content:
>
> C:\different-path\firefox.exe

Yes. But what if you don't want to put f4.bat in your path?
What if f4.bat is on an external drive as just one example?

> > To run each of these, you'd only need to pin the Win+R icon to the taskbar
> > and then tap that icon and a selection of previous choices can be made
> > from a list of the most recently used that Windows automatically maintains.
>
> And where is the difference. You type f4 and firefox is started, either
> because there is a batch file f4.bat in the PATH-directory or because
> there is an entry in the registry.

I'm not saying there isn't an entry in the registry.
Nor are you saying that you don't have to put everything in your path.

These are additive.
If you use both methods, can you come up with even one downside to that?

If there are zero negatives, then what's the problem?

It's like having two screwdrivers, one which you like which is a Phillips
screwdriver, and the other which I like which is a Flathead screwdriver.

It's not negative that one screwdriver does things one way and the other
does them differently, is it?

Why not have both tools so tasks better suited for the %path% use the
Phillips screwdriver and tasks suited to App Paths use the Flathead?

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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 by: Bugsy - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 04:55 UTC

Freethinker <freethinker@mymail.com> wrote:

> Why not have both tools so tasks better suited for the %path% use the
> Phillips screwdriver and tasks suited to App Paths use the Flathead?

It's more like a set of pliers with different shaped heads where both will
do everything but each tool will do some things with fewer keystrokes.
--
Please wear your mask!
Bugs are everywhere. :)
!__!
(@)(@)
\.'||'./
-: :: :-
/'..''..'\

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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 by: Freethinker - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 05:23 UTC

On 21.03.23 19:38, VanguardLH wrote:
>> You can do all that using the %path% as Herbert suggested but unless
>> you put all your executables and shortcuts and batch files into the
>> same folder, it will mess up %path% won't it?
>
> I have a C:\Batch folder containing all my .bat files.

What if you maintain batch files on external drives and in multiple
locations? Do you really add a billion entries to the %path% in that case?

I realize what you're doing is putting everything into a single folder, but
that's a limitation that you don't even think about for the App Paths tool.

It's two different ways to do the same thing, which both will do.

It's like having two grinding wheels or two different grits of sandpaper.
Why would you argue against having the right tool for the job at hand?

It's purely additive in functionality.

> For some
> programs, they're installed or copied under C:\Programs but in
> subfolders for each program. I have added the subfolders to PATH for
> SysInternals and Nirsoft, but the rest I don't use that often, so I just
> use .bat files to find them which, of course, are in my C:\Batch folder.

According to Microsoft, this is precisely why they created the App Paths
subkey in Windows XP.

> So, I've got about 3 folders that I add to PATH (and in the sysPATH
> envvar since I want the same access under any Windows account under
> which I login, including the Administrator account used only for
> emergencies): C:\Batch, C:\Programs\SysInternals, and
> C:\Programs\Nirsoft. Any other progs under C:\Programs (each in their
> own subfolder) are easily ran using the .bat files under C:\Batch. If I
> add shortcuts to the Start menu, desktop, or Taskbar toolbars, well, the
> path is already specified in the shortcut.

I never said a bad thing about the %path% just like I wouldn't call 400
grit sandpaper worse than 300 grit sandpaper.

They're two tools that will do the same job.
One is suited to some jobs better than the other.

To argue vehemently against 300 grit sandpaper in favor of 400 grit sounds
a bit wasteful since there is no disadvantage to using both if you want to.

Or don't use both.
It's up to you which grit sandpaper you want to use for any given task.

> I consider the AppPaths registry entry for use by installers of
> programs. That's really meant for their management. AppPaths is
> intended for app registration.
>
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/app-registration

I'm sure it is.
So what?

> As with the AppPaths registry key, there is an Applications registry key
> for the same purpose. Apparently more app info can be stored under the
> Applications/<prognam> keys than for AppPaths/<progname>. So, now you
> have 2 keys, and all their subkeys, to track, synchronize, backup to
> .reg file, and import.

Yes. But you're arguing that you shouldn't have a Dremel tool because it
can handle all sizes of bits, even if you only really use the cutting
wheel.

That's not sensible.

You can't blame the Dremel tool because it does more than you need it to
do. The way I use the App Paths is with just the "@Default" but if you want
to use it with different bits (as you're describing) then that's not a
negative.

It's a positive.

> If you edit the AppPaths and Applications subkeys, you could end up
> fucking up what the installed added, and what the program expects.

That's kind of like saying that a kitchen should only have forks because if
you use chopsticks, you could end up fucking up the plate of spaghetti.

What do you have against having the choice of forks or chopsticks?

>> Worse, how do you run firefox.exe from three different locations using
>> the %path% when it's super trivial to run each of those from the App
>> Paths subkey (as explained in another thread on the subject I posted
>> later)?
>
> AppPaths and Applications registry keys only specify a single path to
> the executable, not 3 selections for multiple paths.
>
> If you are creating the AppPaths subkeys for multiple but separate
> instances of Firefox, like a subkey named firefox.exe, another named
> firefox2.exe, and another for firefox3.exe, why can't you do that using
> shortcuts, or .bat files in your batch folder added to PATH?

What is your reason for not wanting a variety of shovels to use when you
want to use them, where all shovels end up doing the same thing, don't
they?
https://www.trees.com/gardening-and-landscaping/types-of-shovels

Is it really that bad to have two types of shovels in your tool shed?
>> The App Path is useful if you want to open something up without having
>> to create a shortcut (although the App Path can run a shortcut also).
>
> Edit the registry to add a subkey under AppPaths, add all the subkeys
> under that subkey for command->open, etc. Or define a shortcut. I
> don't see one is easier than the other. In fact, to get all the
> sub-subkeys correct under an AppPath/<progname> key is more difficult.

I'm not sure why you're arguing repeatedly against having multiple shovels.
Don't use the Edging Shovel when you prefer to use the Trench Shovel.

But why chastise me when I prefer to use the Trench Shovel over the Edging
Shovel?

(I'm randomly picking shovel types from the previous list where my argument
is having two types of tools is not a bad thing like you're saying it is).

>> It's probably important to note (because it's not intuitive) that the
>> name of the subkey can be anything but it must end with "exe" for
>> some reason.
>
> The subkey for <progname> is expected to match on the executable
> filename.

That's just false.
You think that.
But it's false.

It's a keyword.
It can be anything.

It just has to end with exe but it could be Poopy.exe for all that matters.
What you said is like saying all shovels must have wooden handles.

It's OK if a shovel has a fiberglass handle instead of a hickory handle.

> That you give it a different program "name" in AppPaths is
> because you're creating multiple keys pointing to the same program, but
> supposedly something is different in each, like adding an argument to
> the open command. You're creating multiple AppPath/<prog> subkeys with
> different names like you creating multiple .bat files with different
> names that call the same program, but with something different in each
> .bat file for why there are multiples of them for the same program
> (although with .bat files, you could use command-line arguments when
> calling the batch file to specify how to different execute the program).

What I'm doing is no different than you owning more than one shovel.
You're making a simple choice of tools into the bogeyman for some reason.

>
>> To take a common example likely everyone has, this common app path sub
>> key:
>> HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\firefox.exe
>> @Default=C:\path\firefox.exe
>> Doesn't actually have to be "firefox.exe" but even "f.exe" would work.
>> HKLM\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\f.exe
>> @Default=C:\path\firefox.exe
>
> So, you are not defining separate AppPaths subkeys with differing
> prognames, but creating aliases using AppPaths to point at the same
> program? Harken the DOSKEY command, or same-content .bat files
> executing the same scripts all residing in a folder added to PATH, or
> differently named shortcuts all pointing to the same program. Several
> ways to skin the same cat.

Again, you may prefer to dig a trench using a pickax and a shovel while I
might want to dig that same trench using just the shovel. Why do you care?

Use the tools that suit you best.
Why is it so bad to have more than one tool that does the job slightly
different?

Is there any disadvantage to having more than one tool?
What is it?

I can't think of any.

>> Where those sets of options can be targets inside separate shortcuts,
>> but where those shortcuts don't have to clutter your GUI if you use
>> them a lot at all you need to remember is f1, f2 and f3 to run them.
>
> Shortcuts never have to clutter a GUI. Put the .lnk shortcut files in a
> folder you've added to your PATH envvar, like the same one where you're
> storing all your .bat files. .lnk shortcut files are executable, so you
> can call them from the command line, too.

What if I don't want to put all my shovels in one tool shed?
What if I just want to leave some scattered about?

What if I want a shovel in the garden.
Another by the compost.
Yet another at the chicken coop?

Why must I put all my shovels in one spot because you do things that way?

> Create a shortcut on your
> desktop. Have it load "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe"
> (or whatever path you like where an instance is found - and works from
> there) along with any command-line arguments. Then move it to your
> common batch folder (which has been included in PATH). Name the
> shortcut "fx12". In a command shell, run fx12.lnk (you have to include
> the extension). Voila, Firefox opens from the shortcut stored in a
> PATH'ed location.


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Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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 by: VanguardLH - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 08:35 UTC

Freethinker <freethinker@mymail.com> wrote:

> On 21.03.23 19:38, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> You can do all that using the %path% as Herbert suggested but unless
>>> you put all your executables and shortcuts and batch files into the
>>> same folder, it will mess up %path% won't it?
>>
>> I have a C:\Batch folder containing all my .bat files.
>
> What if you maintain batch files on external drives and in multiple
> locations? Do you really add a billion entries to the %path% in that case?

An extreme exaggeration. You don't have billions of executables on your
computer. You don't specify billions of additions to PATH, one for each
location of an executable even if they were in separate folders. You
add to the PATH those paths for which you don't want to specify in .bat
files *all* of which are in *one* folder for all .bat files.

If you were editing the PATH envvar for billions of entries, you'd also
be editing billions of entries under AppPaths. Yours is a bad argument.

> I realize what you're doing is putting everything into a single
> folder, but that's a limitation that you don't even think about for
> the App Paths tool.

No, the limitation with AppPaths is you have to specify a subkey for
EVERY program, and you have to be familiar with all the subkeys under
the AppPaths/<prog> subkey. My programs are NOT all in the same folder,
and which you notably omitted in your comment. I use the hierarchical
structure of the file system to put each program into its own folder.
If one is especially important, I can add it to PATH. As I stated, I
only add 3 entries to PATH: C:\Batch, C:\Programs\SysInternals, and
C:\Programs\Nirsoft. Programs that use an installer manage their own
AppPaths entries. Programs that I merely copy or unzip (they don't use
an installer) all go under a subfolder under C:\Programs, but I don't
add every subfolder that ever gets created under there. Batch files
work great to specify where to find programs that would normally not be
found in the working directory, PATH, or AppPaths.

Mine is not a limitation. It is *organization*. Having all exe paths
solely specified in the AppPaths registry entry is like those boobs that
pile every entry in their Start menu in a 1-level hierarchy: a mess. I
also use subfolders in the Start menu to organize those entries, and I
even organize the Start menu tiles into groups.

> It's two different ways to do the same thing, which both will do.
>
> It's like having two grinding wheels or two different grits of sandpaper.
> Why would you argue against having the right tool for the job at hand?

I am arguing your method isn't better than mine, or of others. You want
to extol AppPaths, but it isn't the panacea you proclaim. Just another
method to a similar end.

>> For some
>> programs, they're installed or copied under C:\Programs but in
>> subfolders for each program. I have added the subfolders to PATH for
>> SysInternals and Nirsoft, but the rest I don't use that often, so I just
>> use .bat files to find them which, of course, are in my C:\Batch folder.
>
> According to Microsoft, this is precisely why they created the App Paths
> subkey in Windows XP.

What you can specify is limited compared to what you can script inside a
batch file. Just how, in an AppPaths entry for a program, are you going
to perform any setup before loading a program, do cleanup after exiting
the file, or do anything other than simply specify the executable?

For example, I use a stream capture program called Jaksta, but I don't
like how it leaves behind on its exit a bunch of data that gets reused
in the next session of Jaksta. It's for recovery, like a resume
function, but I don't want it. I can run commands after the program
exits in a batch file to cleanup after its exit (make it pristine
again). Can't do that with an AppPaths entry. There are programs that
when you exit really don't exit. Their window disappears, but their
process remains. In a batch script, I can kill the process to ensure it
really does unload when I "exit" the program. I have batch files that
edit the registry either by using a .reg file or specifying the actual
keys using reg.exe. Requires several regedit lines, and perhaps
multiple executes of reg.exe which cannot be specified in a single open
command subkey under a progkey under AppPaths. What if you want to
flush the local DNS cache? Requires more than one command to do
properly. Perhaps you can specify a .bat file in an AppPaths subkey,
but why? You must already have the batch file, and it's in your
C:\Batch folder which is included in PATH.

> They're two tools that will do the same job.
> One is suited to some jobs better than the other.

Nothing you can do in AppPaths that can't be done in a .bat file.
Lots of things you cannot do with an AppPaths entry that you can do in a
..bat file.

>> I consider the AppPaths registry entry for use by installers of
>> programs. That's really meant for their management. AppPaths is
>> intended for app registration.
>>
>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/app-registration
>
> I'm sure it is.
> So what?

"What" is you don't know how the OS or apps will be using AppPaths, and
you're putzing around in there.

You are also unaware (despite giving you an article mentioning it) that
the maximum string length for an open command in an AppPaths progname
entry is MAX_PATH * 2. Probably the same for the shell when running a
batch inside it; however, rather than list too many arguments on the
command line, you could slice the commands apart in a batch. There are
programs that are recursive, and their command line can get very long.

>> As with the AppPaths registry key, there is an Applications registry
>> key for the same purpose. Apparently more app info can be stored
>> under the Applications/<prognam> keys than for AppPaths/<progname>.
>> So, now you have 2 keys, and all their subkeys, to track,
>> synchronize, backup to .reg file, and import.
>
> Yes. But you're arguing that you shouldn't have a Dremel tool because
> it can handle all sizes of bits, even if you only really use the
> cutting wheel.

Another bad analogy. I mentioned that you have two chuck sizes to
manage instead of one.

> You can't blame the Dremel tool because it does more than you need it to
> do. The way I use the App Paths is with just the "@Default" but if you want
> to use it with different bits (as you're describing) then that's not a
> negative.

Why are you arguing about the 2nd registry key (Applications)? I
mentioned it because it is yet another means of doing what AppPaths
does, so you have to manage 2 keys, not 1.

>> If you edit the AppPaths and Applications subkeys, you could end up
>> fucking up what the installed added, and what the program expects.
>
> That's kind of like saying that a kitchen should only have forks because if
> you use chopsticks, you could end up fucking up the plate of spaghetti.

You're not the one programming the spaghetti as to what is allowed for
its eating utensil.

>> AppPaths and Applications registry keys only specify a single path to
>> the executable, not 3 selections for multiple paths.
>>
>> If you are creating the AppPaths subkeys for multiple but separate
>> instances of Firefox, like a subkey named firefox.exe, another named
>> firefox2.exe, and another for firefox3.exe, why can't you do that using
>> shortcuts, or .bat files in your batch folder added to PATH?
>
> What is your reason for not wanting a variety of shovels to use when you
> want to use them, where all shovels end up doing the same thing, don't
> they?

Another bad analogy. Instead you are calling the same shovel by
multiple names, but the shovel is still a shovel.

>>> The App Path is useful if you want to open something up without having
>>> to create a shortcut (although the App Path can run a shortcut also).
>>
>> Edit the registry to add a subkey under AppPaths, add all the subkeys
>> under that subkey for command->open, etc. Or define a shortcut. I
>> don't see one is easier than the other. In fact, to get all the
>> sub-subkeys correct under an AppPath/<progname> key is more difficult.
>
> I'm not sure why you're arguing repeatedly against having multiple shovels.
> Don't use the Edging Shovel when you prefer to use the Trench Shovel.

You wandered again. I said which incurs more difficulty in creating and
editing and managing. You are still focused on wanting multiple aliases
to the same program defined by AppPaths.

Oh, by the way, all this registry key "stuff" is moot unless you are
logged under a Windows admin-level account. Guess you've never created
restricted accounts for users that you don't want fucking up the setup.
None of the non-admin users can get into the registry. regedit.exe
won't work for them. Double-clicking on a .reg file won't work. Also,
just because the user happens to be the owner of a computer doesn't mean
they log into an admin-level Windows account by default. Many users log
into restricted user accounts to increase security. What a nuisance in
having to logout and login to get into an admin-level account, and then
logout and login again to get back to the safe restricted Windows
account. With shortcuts or batch files, they don't get barred from
creating and editing those.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: kle...@unibwm.de (Herbert Kleebauer)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 10:27:10 +0100
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 by: Herbert Kleebauer - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 09:27 UTC

On 22.03.2023 05:51, Freethinker wrote:

> An example is Microsoft didn't build in a way to open up any desired
> document just by typing a single word like "family" to open "family.xls".

Family.bat in the PATH-directory with the content:

start family.xls

You make an entry in the registry, I make an entry in the
PATH-directory.

I think you see differences where no differences are. It's
just a matter of preferences where you want to store the
information.

The registry is a global data base which is manipulated
by many programs. My PATH-directory is fully under my control,
no other program makes any changes nor can my changes affect
other software. Functionally it is something like a second
private registry which can't interfere with the rest of the
system. I can transfer it to an other PC without the need to
first extract it from the global registry and then import
it on the new PC.

I also install, if possible, portable versions of software
which don't make any entries in the registry but store all
information in ini files in the program directory. This way
you can easily copy it to an other PC (without an installation)
or directly use it from an USB stick on any PC.

You can also store all your writings in a single global
..doc file in the Windows directory and just specify the
pages to print if you want to print one of the letters.
I prefer to have a separate file for each letter in
a user defined directory.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: freethin...@mymail.com (Freethinker)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
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 by: Freethinker - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 15:08 UTC

On 22.03.23 10:35, VanguardLH wrote:
> If you were editing the PATH envvar for billions of entries, you'd also
> be editing billions of entries under AppPaths. Yours is a bad argument.

I have to nod my head in agreement where in the case of the %path% you can
put a billion executable files in one path but App Paths takes a billion
entries instead (you can get fancy to cut that number down, but I don't).

Also I have to assume you're aware of pinned shortcuts, although we all
know many people have a desktop full of them, I assume yours is clean so
that only a small number of shortcuts are pinned to your taskbar currently.

In addition, I have to assume you're aware of menus, which can either be
the Microsoft ones (which I don't normally use because they get attacked by
every program that is installed) and pinned menus (which I sometimes use).

I bring this up because there are many ways to run a program in Windows.
You use the tool that is best suited for your needs, where having them all
is not as bad as you're making it out to be. Use a pick when you want a
pick axe, and use a shovel when you want a shovel.

Both can do the same job.
Each does the same job different.

>> I realize what you're doing is putting everything into a single
>> folder, but that's a limitation that you don't even think about for
>> the App Paths tool.
>
> No, the limitation with AppPaths is you have to specify a subkey for
> EVERY program, and you have to be familiar with all the subkeys under
> the AppPaths/<prog> subkey.

App Paths is no more complex than the %path% is and you can save it once
inside the registry as a Favorite so you don't have to look for it again.

I don't even know what the other sub keys do other than the main one.

> Mine is not a limitation. It is *organization*.

I have to nod my head in agreement as I never said anything was wrong with
the %path% just like I never said a shovel or pick axe is bad.

Each does the same job different.

> Having all exe paths
> solely specified in the AppPaths registry entry is like those boobs that
> pile every entry in their Start menu in a 1-level hierarchy: a mess. I
> also use subfolders in the Start menu to organize those entries, and I
> even organize the Start menu tiles into groups.

Ah. I see where the issue is. You understood me incorrectly. Very
incorrectly if you think "all my executables" go into the App Paths.

For me, only the stuff I want to put in the App Paths go into the App Paths
sub key. Mostly those I wrote myself. Mostly files I use a lot. Mostly
directories I use a lot.

If something is already in the %path%, I don't bother putting an App Paths
sub key for it unless I use it so much that it's more efficient to use the
App Paths but that's what the Windows menus are for.

So my App Paths is mostly just for "my things", and not for everything.

> I am arguing your method isn't better than mine, or of others. You want
> to extol AppPaths, but it isn't the panacea you proclaim. Just another
> method to a similar end.

It's like the difference between a pick and a shovel.
Use the one you like for the job best suited.

Having both has no drawbacks that I can think of.
Can you?

>> According to Microsoft, this is precisely why they created the App Paths
>> subkey in Windows XP.
>
> What you can specify is limited compared to what you can script inside a
> batch file. Just how, in an AppPaths entry for a program, are you going
> to perform any setup before loading a program, do cleanup after exiting
> the file, or do anything other than simply specify the executable?

First off, having both a pick and a shovel isn't as bad as you make it out
to be if you can't find anything wrong with the App Paths subkey other than
to say you like the shovel better than the pick for all jobs possible.

Each does a job and you use the one that is best suited for your needs.
If you have a phone list, for example, you can type "phone" and up it
comes.

I'm sure you can put a batch file in your path but then you need to be on
the command line, so you first have to type cmd and then type phone.

Isn't it double the steps of App Paths to use the %path% to bring up your
phone list?

> For example, I use a stream capture program called Jaksta, but I don't
> like how it leaves behind on its exit a bunch of data that gets reused
> in the next session of Jaksta. It's for recovery, like a resume
> function, but I don't want it. I can run commands after the program
> exits in a batch file to cleanup after its exit (make it pristine
> again). Can't do that with an AppPaths entry.

How do you *start* that Jaksta program?
I'll bet it's more steps than starting it using the App Paths sub key.

First you have to open a command window.
Then you have to run the command.

Shortcuts & menus don't count because you can do that with App Paths also.
You probably start Jaksta from the command line, right?

That's *double* the steps already, than using the App Paths key.

To run your run-and-clean program in the App Paths, you type "runjak" and
that does everything in a single step.

I suspect Apps Paths is half the steps you currently use with %path%.
If you're confused why I say that, just ask and I will explain it to you.

> There are programs that
> when you exit really don't exit. Their window disappears, but their
> process remains. In a batch script, I can kill the process to ensure it
> really does unload when I "exit" the program. I have batch files that
> edit the registry either by using a .reg file or specifying the actual
> keys using reg.exe. Requires several regedit lines, and perhaps
> multiple executes of reg.exe which cannot be specified in a single open
> command subkey under a progkey under AppPaths. What if you want to
> flush the local DNS cache? Requires more than one command to do
> properly. Perhaps you can specify a .bat file in an AppPaths subkey,
> but why? You must already have the batch file, and it's in your
> C:\Batch folder which is included in PATH.

The method you're using requires two steps to do what the App Paths key
does in one step if I understand what you're doing that is.

But two steps isn't bad. It's just that one step is probably better.
Just like a pick axe isn't bad. But sometimes a shovel is better.

>
>> They're two tools that will do the same job.
>> One is suited to some jobs better than the other.
>
> Nothing you can do in AppPaths that can't be done in a .bat file.

That's not true. It means you don't understand App Paths.
You really need to understand it before you say what you just said.

The App Paths subkey definitely does things the %path% doesn't do.
In fact, that's why it exists.

For you to NOT understand that is pretty problematic.
It means you purchased too many arguments this week.

Donate those spurious arguments to the Goodwill store instead.
At least you can claim the tax deduction for your expense.

> Lots of things you cannot do with an AppPaths entry that you can do in a
> .bat file.

If you don't know that I said that already, then you're not reading what I
wrote, and, worse, if you don't know there are things that each does which
the other does NOT do, then it means you're arguing for arguments sake
alone.

Each does the same job.
Different.

There are jobs suited for the App Paths subkey and there are jobs suited
for the %path% just like there are jobs suited for a pick axe and there are
jobs suited for a shovel. Having both has no drawbacks that you've listed.

>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/app-registration
>>
>> I'm sure it is.
>> So what?
>
> "What" is you don't know how the OS or apps will be using AppPaths, and
> you're putzing around in there.

I'm not even going to respond to that given you clearly don't understand
how teh App Paths subkey works (see above where it's clear you don't).

I think you need to use your extra arguments that you purchased on sale
somewhere else because having a pick axe and a shovel is better than having
only one of them because they each can do the same job but they do it
different.

> You are also unaware (despite giving you an article mentioning it) that
> the maximum string length for an open command in an AppPaths progname
> entry is MAX_PATH * 2. Probably the same for the shell when running a
> batch inside it; however, rather than list too many arguments on the
> command line, you could slice the commands apart in a batch. There are
> programs that are recursive, and their command line can get very long.

You're grasping for ways to find that the App Paths has limitations but you
don't even notice that the %path% also has limitations.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: freethin...@mymail.com (Freethinker)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 17:33:41 +0200
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 by: Freethinker - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 15:33 UTC

On 22.03.23 11:27, Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
> > An example is Microsoft didn't build in a way to open up any desired
> > document just by typing a single word like "family" to open "family.xls".
>
> Family.bat in the PATH-directory with the content:
> start family.xls
> You make an entry in the registry, I make an entry in the
> PATH-directory.

As I explained to VanguardLH, apparently Microsoft designed the %path%
first, and then, when problems arose, they added the App Paths somewhere
around the Windows XP time frame, which is when I found out about it.

They both do the same thing different.
Each has pros. Each has cons.

For example, I got hooked on the App Pahts because in those XP days you
could just make the App Paths subkey a folder name, and it would work. That
broke between XP and Windows 10 so now you have to add a shortcut or batch
file call that in the App Paths instead.
> I think you see differences where no differences are.

Actually you're missing the differences I think so we should concentrate on
why you don't see what I see and perhaps why I may not see what you see.

I'll give you the same mano a mano challenge that I gave Vanguard.
Tell me HOW many steps it is for you to execute the family.xls in practice.
I suspect it's _half_ the number of steps to do the same thing with App
Paths.

Half.

Now, of course, I suspect your method is two steps. So half is only one.
But it's still half the number of steps to do what you do with App Paths
than with the %path%.

Note that we're ignoring that you can boot to a command line but most
people do not. And we're ignoring you can have desktop or task bar
shortcuts. And we're ignoring that you can put the command in a menu.

> It's
> just a matter of preferences where you want to store the
> information.

Yes. No.
Yes that both do the same job different.
But I think your method is twice the number of physical steps in use.

Just let me know what steps you take assuming your PC just booted up.
All you have is your desktop like most people have after the PC booted up.

I wager that your method (albeit easy) is *twice* the steps of the App
Paths method (in practice).

> The registry is a global data base which is manipulated
> by many programs. My PATH-directory is fully under my control,
> no other program makes any changes nor can my changes affect
> other software. Functionally it is something like a second
> private registry which can't interfere with the rest of the
> system. I can transfer it to an other PC without the need to
> first extract it from the global registry and then import
> it on the new PC.

VanguardLH brought up that he doesn't like the way Microsoft designed the
registry also. I edit the registry probably, on average, once a week but
sometimes more and sometimes less. It's been more than a decade probably
since I backed one up. I haven't corrupted anything in probably a decade.

You can't tell me you've never edited the registry.

> I also install, if possible, portable versions of software
> which don't make any entries in the registry but store all
> information in ini files in the program directory. This way
> you can easily copy it to an other PC (without an installation)
> or directly use it from an USB stick on any PC.

I'm always wondering what choice to make when Irfanview asks that question.
If you can give me advice on that, it would be helpful because I just take
the default but maybe there's a reason for the ini file instead of the path
when Irfanview installs?

Do you know what I am asking about?
What's your advice when Irfanview asks that question?
> You can also store all your writings in a single global
> .doc file in the Windows directory and just specify the
> pages to print if you want to print one of the letters.
> I prefer to have a separate file for each letter in
> a user defined directory.

There's nothing wrong with using the %path% for everything.
Even though you're executing *twice* the number of steps that I am to do
simple things. Because twice times one is only two.

You're always doing in two steps what I always do in one step.
I'm not chastising you for that.

I'm just saying there are multiple ways to do things, where each way has
its own pros and cons and I only want you to be *aware* of them.

If you don't know why I say your method is two steps, then just let me know
how you execute your method at a cold boot which means what you have in
front of you is what most people have in front of them, which is the
desktop and nothing else but what's on a typical default Windows desktop
other than your personal shortcuts in your taskbar and your menus and your
desktop shortcuts (you know, what most people have on their desktops).

I'll wager your method using the %path% is twice the number of steps than
the App Paths method to bring up that family.xls spreadsheet.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: kle...@unibwm.de (Herbert Kleebauer)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 17:30:52 +0100
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 by: Herbert Kleebauer - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:30 UTC

On 22.03.2023 16:33, Freethinker wrote:

>> > An example is Microsoft didn't build in a way to open up any desired
>> > document just by typing a single word like "family" to open "family.xls".
>>
>> Family.bat in the PATH-directory with the content:
>> start family.xls
>> You make an entry in the registry, I make an entry in the
>> PATH-directory.

> I'll give you the same mano a mano challenge that I gave Vanguard.
> Tell me HOW many steps it is for you to execute the family.xls in practice.
> I suspect it's _half_ the number of steps to do the same thing with App
> Paths.
>
> Half.

I don't understand what you want to say. Didn't you say, you use

<WIN>-r family

You would exactly use the same command if you hadn't made the registry
entry but put the above batch in the PATH-directory. There is no
difference in the behavior, but only in the place where the information
is stored.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: freethin...@mymail.com (Freethinker)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:46:32 +0200
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 by: Freethinker - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 18:46 UTC

On 22.03.23 16:30, Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
> I don't understand what you want to say. Didn't you say, you use
>
> <WIN>-r family
>
> You would exactly use the same command if you hadn't made the registry
> entry but put the above batch in the PATH-directory. There is no
> difference in the behavior, but only in the place where the information
> is stored.

You're right!
I was mistaken.

It's the same number of steps either way.

I just tested it by creating test.bat containing this one line.
%comspec% /k echo hello
I put test.bat into a directory that was in my %path%.

Then I clicked the Win+R icon which is always pinned to my taskbar.
And I typed "test" and then I hit the Enter key.

It works.
You're right.

Both methods are the same number of steps!
One.

I had thought you needed to bring up a command window first.
But the Run icon respects the %path% environment variable.

I then left my "test" App Paths sub key in the form below.
c:\path\family.xls

In that case, the App Paths test.exe won out over the %path%\test.bat file.

So Windows first checks the App Paths, and *then* it consults the %path%.
That's useful in & of itself to override %path% on a case-by-case basis.

Good to know.
Thanks.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: kle...@unibwm.de (Herbert Kleebauer)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
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 by: Herbert Kleebauer - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:02 UTC

On 22.03.2023 19:46, Freethinker wrote:

> In that case, the App Paths test.exe won out over the %path%\test.bat file.
>
> So Windows first checks the App Paths, and *then* it consults the %path%.
> That's useful in & of itself to override %path% on a case-by-case basis.

test.exe wins against test.bat. Put a test.exe in your PATH-directory
than you will know what wins, PATH or App Path.

But I suppose, PATH will win:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/app-registration

The file is sought in the following locations:

The current working directory.
The Windows directory only (no subdirectories are searched).
The Windows\System32 directory.
Directories listed in the PATH environment variable.
Recommended: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: freethin...@mymail.com (Freethinker)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2023 02:50:30 +0200
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 by: Freethinker - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 00:50 UTC

On 23.03.23 01:32, Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
>> So Windows first checks the App Paths, and *then* it consults the %path%.
>> That's useful in & of itself to override %path% on a case-by-case basis.
>
> test.exe wins against test.bat. Put a test.exe in your PATH-directory
> than you will know what wins, PATH or App Path.

Are you telling me App Paths actually lost the race to a technicality? :=)

I'm confused but I think it means we have to be a wee bit careful extension
order when specifically testing the %path% with the App Paths subkey
because with the App Paths, the ".exe" doesn't (usually) even exist, EXCEPT
in the registry itself.

In fact for most of the cases that I use the App Paths for (documents,
folders, shortcuts, etc), the "thing" that the App Paths "text.exe" points
to isn't an executable and the extension (for example *.lnk) isn't in the
path extension shell environment variable which determines action order.

For example, on my system, "echo %PATHEXT%" shows the action order to be
.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH;.MSC

> But I suppose, PATH will win:
>
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/app-registration

Thank you for pointing that out again, as I noticed Microsoft says this.

"When the ShellExecuteEx function is called with the name of an
executable file in its lpFile parameter, there are several places
where the function looks for the file."

Where the next sentence tells us what Microsoft suggests apps use.

"We recommend registering your application in the App Paths
registry subkey. Doing so avoids the need for applications
to modify the system PATH environment variable."

This makes sense because otherwise our %path% could have as many entries as
the number of programs we've installed, each of which added to %path%.

> The file is sought in the following locations:
>
> The current working directory.
> The Windows directory only (no subdirectories are searched).
> The Windows\System32 directory.
> Directories listed in the PATH environment variable.
> Recommended: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths

I see that the LAST place Microsoft looks is App Paths (even as Microsoft
recommends developers use the App Paths subkey instead of the %path%),
so maybe I made a mistake when I had tested the executable order perhaps?

Let me try a different test anyone can reproduce to see what happens.
echo %path%
Put the one-line "test.bat" in the %path%

test.bat (which consists of one line)
%comspec% /k echo hello

Put this one-line "text.exe" subkey into the App Paths.
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\test.exe
@Default=osk

When I type "test" into the run box, the App Paths "osk" wins over %path%.

It's only after I rename the App Paths "test.exe" to something other than
"test" that the %path% wins out over my App Paths in that specific test.

Is it because of the %PATHEXT% ?

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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 by: VanguardLH - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 07:18 UTC

Freethinker <freethinker@mymail.com> wrote:

> Also I have to assume you're aware of pinned shortcuts, although we
> all know many people have a desktop full of them, I assume yours is
> clean so that only a small number of shortcuts are pinned to your
> taskbar currently.

I'm a bit of a neat freak. I don't like messes. That means not having
1 tier to the Start menu, but organized in folders for category of
programs, and subfolders under there for each program. I've seen users
scanning their eyes up and down in a long Start menu trying to find an
entry. There is now a search (just start typing when the Start menu is
display) but that requires you remember the first character(s) of the
entry to find it in a results list from which you pick the one you were
looking for. It's still better than having to scan a mess of 1-tier
entries.

I've tried pinned shortcuts, but don't like them. Consumes realestate
in the Taskbar even when the programs are not running. There is an
indicator showing if a pinned shortcut has a running instance of that
program (it's a tiny indicator, like a blue bar along the top), but I
dislike having my Taskbar polluted with shortcut icons for apps that
aren't even running.

I have a 2-row Taskbar. Bottom row is for toolbars (folders) for:
QuickLaunch (emulate the old QuickLaunch toolbar), web browser,
communication, info & games, security, tools, address bar. The 2-row
setup also makes the systray bigger, so I get more clock data (time,
day-of-week, mm/dd/yyyy), and 2 rows for systray icons (but I still hide
many of them, just show the most used). Got rid of the Search box since
it is superfluous. Just open the Start menu and start typing to get the
same search results. The top row of the Taskbar is *only* to show
currently running programs. I also have the Taskbar configured to group
icons for the same program, and use the popup thumbnails to pick which
in the same set on which to focus. I've played off and on with the
auto-hide option, but found too many programs don't resize when the
Taskbar is unhidden resulting in the bottom portion of the app's window
getting obscured by the Taskbar, so I just stick with always-show for
the Taskbar.

If that level of organization is not sufficient, I will use the virtual
desktop manager to group windows in a screen, like web browsing in one
desktop, coding in another desktop, writing letters in another, playing
a game in another, and so on. Windows 10's virtual screen manager is
sufficient for me. Before that I used Dexpot. There have been times I
wanted multiple monitors, but multiple desktops is good enough, so far.

Pinned shortcuts to the Taskbar is for users that don't mind clutter.
Instead of pinning shortcuts to the Taskbar, I have shortcuts in
toolbars shown in the bottom row of a 2-row Taskbar. I can have a hell
of lot more shortcuts in toolbar than pinned ones in the Taskbar. In
fact, I purposely squash some toolbar to show a right-ward
double-chevron to popup a list of more shortcuts that are normally
hidden. For example, in the web toolbar that is squashed down to show
only 1 icon (for Firefox), the chevron that displays the popup list
shows: Firefox (private), Firefox (safe), Kill all Firefox, No Proxy,
Microsoft Edge. There used to be more, but the list got pared down.
Taskbar toolbars are a far better solution to shortcut access than using
pinned shortcuts.

>> and you have to be familiar with all the subkeys under the
>> AppPaths/<prog> subkey.
>
> App Paths is no more complex than the %path% is and you can save it once
> inside the registry as a Favorite so you don't have to look for it again.

Okay, let's test that claim. You already know the subkey under AppPaths
has the syntax <progname>.exe. Under that subkey, what are the possible
data item names and values? There can be more than just the "(Default)"
key defining a path to the program. There can also be a PATH data item
with a path value. What's the difference between (Default) and PATH
data items? What other data items may be defined under the <progname>
subkey? What are the SaveURL and UseURL data items for? How about the
data items that are unique to a program? What are the sub-subkeys, if
any, under the <progname> subkey for? Maybe they define multiple
protocols supported by the program, or other arguments.

I mentioned there is also the Applications registry key which has a
similar purpose to the AppPaths registry key, except the Applications
subkeys can have more data on identifying the program, and its
attributes or arguments. I gave the MS article mentioned how
Applications has more attributes than does AppPaths. Here it is again
(with a pointer to the section on the Applications key):

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/app-registration#using-the-applications-subkey

Do you have that document memorized, so you know how to properly define
the <prognam> subkey along with all the data items that are appropriate
for each program?

> For me, only the stuff I want to put in the App Paths go into the App
> Paths sub key. Mostly those I wrote myself. Mostly files I use a lot.
> Mostly directories I use a lot.

AppPath entries cannot point at folders. You're not using AppPaths to
specify how to find all executables (and AppPaths never has done that
even with all installers). It's up the installer as to whether or not
it adds an AppPath/<progname>.exe subkey. For you, you're just adding a
few AppPath subkeys for some of your programs. However, you're still
editing the registry. regedit.exe is not a safe tool for editing the
registry.

There is no undo. If you delete something, it's gone forever. If you
make a mistake in the registry, you'll have to restore from an image
backup (you cannot individually restore the registry files since even
admin users won't have permissions), or always remember to export the
registry (or, at least the parent key under which you intend to edit) to
save a .reg file that you can use to restore back to before your screw
up. When editing the registry, all changes are immediate. Some
changes, like under HKU, require you to logout and log back into your
Windows account to effect the changes. When Windows loads, it reads the
HKLM and HKC hives, and when you log into a Windows account the
HKU/<sid> hive is read. The registry is read from files, but stored in
memory for fast binary access. Registry API calls are against the
memory copy, but editing is against the files, so you need to get the
files to overwrite the memory copy. Sometimes F5 (refresh) will work,
or exiting the registry editor which does the refresh. Yet sometimes
you have to logout and login, or even restart Windows, to effect the
changes. The biggest danger to editing the registry is the lack of an
Undo. No matter how much anyone professes to be an expert or uber-guru,
we all mistakes, like deleting the wrong stuff. Editors accomodate our
mistakes by having Undo (and often multiple undo through a history
feature). No undo when registry editing. Oops! Shit!

With editing a .bat file, you always have Undo (Ctrl+Z) to get back what
you deleted. And nothing is effected until you later run the batch
script.

> If something is already in the %path%, I don't bother putting an App
> Paths sub key for it unless I use it so much that it's more efficient
> to use the App Paths but that's what the Windows menus are for.

The installer will decide what to do. It can: update the PATH settings
(sysPATH for global reference, or userPATH for per-account access),
create a shortcut with "Start in" specified to change to that as the
working directory, add an AppPath or Applications entry, a combo of
those, or none of them.

There is also an order to scanning the aggregate PATH envvar. sysPATH
gets used first, then userPATH. That is, the string is concatenated as
sysPATH + userPATH. If you don't specify the file extension for an
executable, and .exe in sysPATH gets used first before the same-named
file in userPATH. That's why, for example, I add C:\Batch at the head
of sysPATH instead of in userPATH. I want my batch files by the same
filename (but with .bat extension) to get used before any .exe by the
same filename found farther down in sysPATH or down in userPATH. I may
want a .bat file to override an .exe file. I might specify the
extension (and have gotten into the habit of always including it) to
make sure which file I actually want to run, but sometimes I forget to
add the extension, and want to run jmr.bat instead of jmr.exe. Both can
be found in the aggregate PATH envvar, but the \Batch folder in PATH is
before the folder for JMR. Sometimes I want something differently setup
for an executable by using a batch file, they have the same names, both
are executable (.bat and .exe), but I was the .bat to be found before
the .exe when they have the same filename. This works because AppPaths
is used last to find an executable.

- The current working directory.
- The Windows directory only (no subdirectories are searched).
- The Windows\System32 directory.
- Directories listed in the PATH environment variable.
- HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths


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Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: kle...@unibwm.de (Herbert Kleebauer)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2023 10:00:05 +0100
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 by: Herbert Kleebauer - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:00 UTC

On 23.03.2023 01:50, Freethinker wrote:

> It's only after I rename the App Paths "test.exe" to something other than
> "test" that the %path% wins out over my App Paths in that specific test.

I did only a quick testing (so I may be wrong) but as I see it:

If you use "start progname" it use %PATH% first and then "App Path"

If you use "<WIN>-r progname" it use "App Path" first and then %PATH%

The first place in the above search order it finds an executable,
it is executed (no matter whether it is a com exe or bat). Only
if there are more executable in this directory, the order is
..com , .exe, .bat

If you open a CMD window and type

wordpad

you get a not found message (because it is not in the %PATH%).

If you use

start wordpad

Wordpad is started (I suppose, because of the "App Path" entry)

<WIN>-r wordpad also starts Wordpad.

Now create a wordpad.bat in a PATH-directory with the content "pause".

"wordpad" and "start wordpad" now start the batch.

Whereas "<WIN>-r wordpad" still starts Wordpad.

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: the_stan...@fastmail.fm (Stan Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2023 07:31:40 -0700
Organization: Oak Road Systems
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 by: Stan Brown - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 14:31 UTC

On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 02:18:10 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
> I'm a bit of a neat freak. I don't like messes. That means not having
> 1 tier to the Start menu, but organized in folders for category of
> programs, and subfolders under there for each program. I've seen users
> scanning their eyes up and down in a long Start menu trying to find an
> entry.

> There is now a search (just start typing when the Start menu is
> display) but that requires you remember the first character(s) of the
> entry to find it in a results list from which you pick the one you were
> looking for. It's still better than having to scan a mess of 1-tier
> entries.

I didn't know I could do that. Thank you!

When I want VirtualBox, it's certainly faster to type Virt{Enter}
than click on one of the alphabet letters, click again on the V in
the letter matrix that appears, click _again_ on the VirtualBox
folder, and then, finally, click on the VirtualBox shortcut -- if I
can still remember why I opened the Start Menu.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example

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From: McKeis...@ipanywhere.com (Heron)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Edit the manpage for a Windows /? command example
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2023 10:27:22 -0500
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 by: Heron - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 15:27 UTC

On 3/23/2023 9:31 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
>> There is now a search (just start typing when the Start menu is
>> display) but that requires you remember the first character(s) of the
>> entry to find it in a results list from which you pick the one you were
>> looking for. It's still better than having to scan a mess of 1-tier
>> entries.
>
> I didn't know I could do that. Thank you!

That's the funny thing about search which is that it's always there.
You don't need a big fat advertisement for cortana just to run a search.

The real problem is that you should never need to run any search on your
computer because that's like searching for your tools when you need them.

You should know where everything is.

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