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computers / comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action / Re: Garriot Returns (again)

SubjectAuthor
* Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
+* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
|`* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
| +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
| `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Ross Ridge
|  `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
|   +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Dimensional Traveler
|   `- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Ross Ridge
+- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
`* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
 `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
  `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
   `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
    +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
    +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
    `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
     `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
      `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
       `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
        +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
        `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
         `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
          `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
           `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
            `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
             `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
              `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
               `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
                `- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.

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Garriot Returns (again)

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 12:09:39 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 16:09 UTC

Richard Garriot is making a new game! I don't think I can stress quite
how much I adored the old "Ultima" games. I absolutely loved those
programs and considered them some of the finest examples of CRPGs
written. To this day, I still put "Ultima VII" on a pedestal.

So why does this news fill me with dread?

Probably because he - like Ken and Roberta Williams - seem to be
banking on nostalgia rather than actual ability. The last truly great
game Garriot could claim a majority stake in developing was Ultima V,
and - as awesome an experience as that game was - it's close to 35
years old. His later projects owed their success as much to others
(including Warren Spector) as to Garriot himself, and games where
Garriot had more exclusive control tended to be... not fun.

It doesn't help that Garriot has espoused an interest in utilizing
'the blockchain' in this as-yet-unnamed game. Yup, NFTs rear their
ugly heads again. I'd love to say that if anyone could make NFTs a
useful part of gaming, it would be Garriot, but a) I don't believe
that, and b) his earlier flirtations with kickstarter ("Shroud of the
Avatar") are ample evidence that he's not to be trusted in that
regard. His interest in blockchain only assures me that he is either a
huckster or a fool, and neither are promising attributes in a game
developer.

So it's with an extremely heavy heart that I read that Garriot is
trying to make a comeback and all I can think is, "Oh god, I hope he
fails miserably and finally learns that his day as a developer is
over." Perhaps this lack of Compassion has cost me an eighth, but
that's just the way it is.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

<t38mb6$ssd$1@dont-email.me>

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:34:44 +0100
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 by: JAB - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 08:34 UTC

On 13/04/2022 17:09, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> Richard Garriot is making a new game! I don't think I can stress quite
> how much I adored the old "Ultima" games. I absolutely loved those
> programs and considered them some of the finest examples of CRPGs
> written. To this day, I still put "Ultima VII" on a pedestal.
>
> So why does this news fill me with dread?
>
> Probably because he - like Ken and Roberta Williams - seem to be
> banking on nostalgia rather than actual ability. The last truly great
> game Garriot could claim a majority stake in developing was Ultima V,
> and - as awesome an experience as that game was - it's close to 35
> years old. His later projects owed their success as much to others
> (including Warren Spector) as to Garriot himself, and games where
> Garriot had more exclusive control tended to be... not fun.
>
> It doesn't help that Garriot has espoused an interest in utilizing
> 'the blockchain' in this as-yet-unnamed game. Yup, NFTs rear their
> ugly heads again. I'd love to say that if anyone could make NFTs a
> useful part of gaming, it would be Garriot, but a) I don't believe
> that, and b) his earlier flirtations with kickstarter ("Shroud of the
> Avatar") are ample evidence that he's not to be trusted in that
> regard. His interest in blockchain only assures me that he is either a
> huckster or a fool, and neither are promising attributes in a game
> developer.
>
> So it's with an extremely heavy heart that I read that Garriot is
> trying to make a comeback and all I can think is, "Oh god, I hope he
> fails miserably and finally learns that his day as a developer is
> over." Perhaps this lack of Compassion has cost me an eighth, but
> that's just the way it is.
>

It's a bit of a shame really when the big hitters don't realise that the
game industry moves fairly rapidly and is also fairly fickle when it
comes to what's the next big thing. It does happen in other parts of the
entertainment industry but games are far more prone to it. My assumption
is that in part that's due to computer games being more lead by
technology than say books or films. The flavour of the month genre may
change (boy I can't wait until we move away from, oh look another
Superhero film how original) but what you're doing is fundamentally the
same.

Another part, which I think applies to products in generally, is that a
lot of it just comes down to having the right product at the right time
also know as luck.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:09:34 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 17:09 UTC

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:34:44 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>On 13/04/2022 17:09, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>> Richard Garriot is making a new game! I don't think I can stress quite
>> how much I adored the old "Ultima" games. I absolutely loved those
>> programs and considered them some of the finest examples of CRPGs
>> written. To this day, I still put "Ultima VII" on a pedestal.

>> So why does this news fill me with dread?

>It's a bit of a shame really when the big hitters don't realise that the
>game industry moves fairly rapidly and is also fairly fickle when it
>comes to what's the next big thing. It does happen in other parts of the
>entertainment industry but games are far more prone to it. My assumption
>is that in part that's due to computer games being more lead by
>technology than say books or films. The flavour of the month genre may
>change (boy I can't wait until we move away from, oh look another
>Superhero film how original) but what you're doing is fundamentally the
>same.

>Another part, which I think applies to products in generally, is that a
>lot of it just comes down to having the right product at the right time
>also know as luck.

There's a lot of ego involved too. Early computer games were made by
individuals or very small groups of people, and it is assumed that any
success can be directly attributed to the skill and creativity of
those developers. But - as you pointed out - it is as often a matter
of timing and luck (not to mention marketing) - that propels one game
above the others as it is the actual content of the game itself.

Was "Bards Tale II" really that much better a game than, say,
"Sentinel Worlds"? Why is "Outrun" remembered as one of the great
classic racers and not "Crazy Cars 2"? Was it really just based on the
product and the crazy talent of its programmers? Of course it wasn't,
but it made great ad-copy to prop up these developers as wunderkinds
from whose minds these games sprung out like Athena from Zeus' skull.
And after decades of that sort of praise, how could even the most
humble programmer not take some of that to heart?

Games in the 80s and 90s were also far more niche than they are today.
Modern games are mass-market products; they need to be designed to
appeal to a huge swathe of the population if they are to make money.
Thirty years ago, the population of gamers was much more restricted -
younger, whiter, more Western - and the games of that day catered to
their specific tastes.

Old-school developers thus have to learn not only new programming
skills, but entirely mind set with how games are made. It's no longer
a single-vision driving a game; now it's a team effort (this is in
particular an area Garriot has repeatedly shown that he lacks skill).
Gameplay needs to be more rounded and diverse; older games - largely
due to technical limitations - usually had simplistic, often one-note
mechanics. We expect better developed game-worlds too, which again
depend heavily on team-effort and not just a solo programmer's input.

Some developers have made that transition. However, these are usually
people who have remained active in the industry throughout, as opposed
to dropping back in after years or decades (and many of them struggled
at times with the systemic changes forced upon their companies by the
hobby's burgeoning success). Garriot - and the Williams - don't have
that hard-won education to help them, and instead seem to believe
their own talent (and recognizable names) will be enough to make a
popular, profitable game. That's pure ego.

And I think they're all in for a rude awakening.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:33:49 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: JAB - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 07:33 UTC

On 14/04/2022 18:09, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> Games in the 80s and 90s were also far more niche than they are today.
> Modern games are mass-market products; they need to be designed to
> appeal to a huge swathe of the population if they are to make money.
> Thirty years ago, the population of gamers was much more restricted -
> younger, whiter, more Western - and the games of that day catered to
> their specific tastes.
>

Agreed the games market is very, very different from the 80's and 90's.
Then I still considered it as a hobby but now I consider it more as a
form of entertainment much then same as films are. I look at quite a few
of the games I used to play and for a lot of them you really needed not
only to read the manual but also do some leg work to get the best out of
the game. For what is now the mass market that's just generally not true
any more and games often go out of their way to make them 'accessible'.

Of course that doesn't mean that I think that's intrinsically wrong nor
that you can't find games that are more what I think of as a hobby. You
see a similar thing in modelling, although to a much lesser extent. When
I was doing that in the 80's the selection of kits was fairly limited
and if you wanted to do any detailing than you had to do it from scratch
and the same for a diorama. Nowadays you can just go out and buy an
update set for almost anything you want and you don't even have to worry
about weathering effects as they've got a product for that as well.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 05:21:43 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ross Ridge - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 05:21 UTC

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>Was "Bards Tale II" really that much better a game than, say,
>"Sentinel Worlds"?

Yah, Bard's Tale II was definitely a better game than Sentinel Worlds I:
Future Magic. Much better? I'd have to go back and play them to go that
far, but I'd say significantly better at least. Sentinel Worlds was a
more ambitious game, more innovative, but I don't it really succeeded
at being what it wanted to be. Bard's Tale II was building on not just
the original Bard's Tale, but also Wizardry and other similar games.
It wasn't very innovative but it was a more polished game,

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
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 by: Werner P. - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:53 UTC

Am 13.04.22 um 18:09 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> So why does this news fill me with dread?
Well not dread, he is on to his usual con artist scheme
this time he is at least honest that he just wants to nickel and dime
the users. His announcement of the new game sounded like a new variant
of the next STD and he was not even talking about the games content.

And yes i loved the Ultimas but Gariott clearly has lost it years ago!

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
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Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 17:27 UTC

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 05:21:43 -0000 (UTC), rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Was "Bards Tale II" really that much better a game than, say,
>>"Sentinel Worlds"?
>
>Yah, Bard's Tale II was definitely a better game than Sentinel Worlds I:
>Future Magic. Much better? I'd have to go back and play them to go that
>far, but I'd say significantly better at least. Sentinel Worlds was a
>more ambitious game, more innovative, but I don't it really succeeded
>at being what it wanted to be. Bard's Tale II was building on not just
>the original Bard's Tale, but also Wizardry and other similar games.
>It wasn't very innovative but it was a more polished game,

Oh, I'm not going to argue that point. But - especially from a modern
perspective - it's difficult to see the differences between the two,
yet one of the games is remembered fondly and the other is essentially
forgotten. Even for its day, both games were satisfying.

Perhaps a better example would have been "Bards Tale I" and "Dragon
Wars"? Why did the latter disappear from the market while the former
series is still revered? It's not because the developer... who happen
to be the same for both games. Certainly it's not the game itself;
personally, I think "Dragon Wars" was the far superior product. It's
the timing of the release and the marketing that played a much bigger
role... yet there is a continued belief in the 'rockstar developer'
that - I think - people like Garriot and Roberta Williams take
advantage of.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:47:13 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 20:47 UTC

On 4/19/2022 10:27 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 05:21:43 -0000 (UTC), rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
> (Ross Ridge) wrote:
>
>> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Was "Bards Tale II" really that much better a game than, say,
>>> "Sentinel Worlds"?
>>
>> Yah, Bard's Tale II was definitely a better game than Sentinel Worlds I:
>> Future Magic. Much better? I'd have to go back and play them to go that
>> far, but I'd say significantly better at least. Sentinel Worlds was a
>> more ambitious game, more innovative, but I don't it really succeeded
>> at being what it wanted to be. Bard's Tale II was building on not just
>> the original Bard's Tale, but also Wizardry and other similar games.
>> It wasn't very innovative but it was a more polished game,
>
> Oh, I'm not going to argue that point. But - especially from a modern
> perspective - it's difficult to see the differences between the two,
> yet one of the games is remembered fondly and the other is essentially
> forgotten. Even for its day, both games were satisfying.
>
> Perhaps a better example would have been "Bards Tale I" and "Dragon
> Wars"? Why did the latter disappear from the market while the former
> series is still revered? It's not because the developer... who happen
> to be the same for both games. Certainly it's not the game itself;
> personally, I think "Dragon Wars" was the far superior product. It's
> the timing of the release and the marketing that played a much bigger
> role... yet there is a continued belief in the 'rockstar developer'
> that - I think - people like Garriot and Roberta Williams take
> advantage of.
>
My experience is that the "rock star developers" aren't actually the
genius behind a good game. (Or at least not what I consider a good
game.) They just happen to be the public face of a team who gets their
name on the box. Sid Meier is an example as well IMO. Civilization and
Civilization II are great games IMHO, a great collaboration between
Meier and Reynolds. CivIII, without Reynolds, and the sequels are trash
that lost the spark and balance that made the first two great. (My
biggest problem with CivIII was that Meier's went to ridiculous lengths
to stop players from expanding by conquest at all and expanding by any
means enough to actually become dominant. Woke game mechanics before
Woke had even woken up. I haven't been tempted to even look at any
Civilization game after that.)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 06:43:54 +0200
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 by: Werner P. - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 04:43 UTC

Am 13.04.22 um 18:09 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> So it's with an extremely heavy heart that I read that Garriot is
> trying to make a comeback and all I can think is, "Oh god, I hope he
> fails miserably and finally learns that his day as a developer is
> over." Perhaps this lack of Compassion has cost me an eighth, but
> that's just the way it is.
He is not interested in games anymore, his vision of a fun game is
selling things and getting a share of every item sold nowadays. He
clearly stated that in the Ultimate Collector, then he tried the same
with Shroud of the Avatar, which was basically a big asset store with a
buggy game attached to it and now he tries the same but adds NFTs.

In one of the interviews he said it irked him that people were earning
money by deals in Ultima Online and he did not get his share of those
deals, he wanted to fix that.

Btw. if you want to see a cringe video check his Ultimate Collector
announcement, this shows much much he has lost it.
And no "rockstar" developers do not necessarily lose it over the years.
Just check Ron Gilbert, he does smaller games with small teams but every
single one of them has been good.

The same goes for the couple who did the Quest for Glory games, they are
doing the occasional game every once in a while, solid good indie
experiences.

Why I hate RG nowadays is, that he is not honest and basically applies
con artist methods in his dealings. He promised stuff which never was
delivered to NCSoft with Tabula Rasa (one of the many reasons why they
ousted him). Then he did the same to the kickstarter backers. After that
basically they he got rid of the liabilities to their investors with
Portalarium and SOTA in a shady way.

And now he runs the same scheme with the same bunch of shady people with
his next project, but plasters NFTs on top of it left and right.

Here is the ultimate collector video I was talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V2PbH1GU0c

He clearly has another vision of fun than everbody else.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 09:11:42 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: JAB - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 08:11 UTC

On 20/04/2022 05:43, Werner P. wrote:
> Am 13.04.22 um 18:09 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>> So it's with an extremely heavy heart that I read that Garriot is
>> trying to make a comeback and all I can think is, "Oh god, I hope he
>> fails miserably and finally learns that his day as a developer is
>> over." Perhaps this lack of Compassion has cost me an eighth, but
>> that's just the way it is.
> He is not interested in games anymore, his vision of a fun game is
> selling things and getting a share of every item sold nowadays. He
> clearly stated that in the Ultimate Collector, then he tried the same
> with Shroud of the Avatar, which was basically a big asset store with a
> buggy game attached to it and now he tries the same but adds NFTs.
>
> In one of the interviews he said it irked him that people were earning
> money by deals in Ultima Online and he did not get his share of those
> deals, he wanted to fix that.
>
> Btw. if you want to see a cringe video check his Ultimate Collector
> announcement, this shows much much he has lost it.
> And no "rockstar" developers do not necessarily lose it over the years.
> Just check Ron Gilbert, he does smaller games with small teams but every
> single one of them has been good.
>
> The same goes for the couple who did the Quest for Glory games, they are
> doing the occasional game every once in a while, solid good indie
> experiences.
>
> Why I hate RG nowadays is, that he is not honest and basically applies
> con artist methods in his dealings. He promised stuff which never was
> delivered to NCSoft with Tabula Rasa (one of the many reasons why they
> ousted him). Then he did the same to the kickstarter backers. After that
> basically they he got rid of the liabilities to their investors with
> Portalarium and SOTA in a shady way.
>
> And now he runs the same scheme with the same bunch of shady people with
> his next project, but plasters NFTs on top of it left and right.
>
> Here is the ultimate collector video I was talking about:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V2PbH1GU0c
>
> He clearly has another vision of fun than everbody else.
>

I did watch the video and yes that's pretty awful. You couldn't get
further away from Ultima if you tried.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:52:33 +0200
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 by: Werner P. - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 12:52 UTC

Am 21.04.22 um 10:11 schrieb JAB:

>> Here is the ultimate collector video I was talking about:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V2PbH1GU0c
>>
>> He clearly has another vision of fun than everbody else.
>>
>
> I did watch the video and yes that's pretty awful. You couldn't get
> further away from Ultima if you tried.

Shroud of the Avatar basically was Ultimate collector reloaded on top of
an Ultimaish setting. And again it bombed. Now his next game is his
third approach on the "Sell things to others and give me a share is so
much fun" game design.

Whatever EA did with the franchise in Ultima Forever with their lootbox
system, what Gariott did in SoTA was ten times worse. Both games bombed,
and rightfully so.

I just wished the series would go into the hands of people actually
wanting to make a solid single player experience instead of selling
overpriced bits and bytes to people.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:34:04 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 22:34 UTC

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:52:33 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>Am 21.04.22 um 10:11 schrieb JAB:

>Shroud of the Avatar basically was Ultimate collector reloaded on top of
>an Ultimaish setting. And again it bombed. Now his next game is his
>third approach on the "Sell things to others and give me a share is so
>much fun" game design.

I'm willing to give Garriot a pass for SotA* because I don't think he
intended it be the pay-to-(win)** shit-show it eventually became. SotA
was intended to half mainstream Ultima & half Ultima Online***, and
took ideas from both. Owning 'land' was one of UO's biggest features,
so it's no surprise it was added to Shroud. Then that became a
convenient way to bring in bit extra development cash... and then it
just spiraled downward, until selling to 'land investors' became the
primary goal, rather than creating an enjoyable game.

Plus, at a certain point Garriot seemed to lose interest in the whole
thing (possibly because it wasn't living up to his initial hopes). Now
the project exists as a zombie-game that seemingly has no purpose but
to funnel cash into the publisher's pockets.**** But this again just
goes to show how Garriot is neither a good project lead nor a good
businessman.

Of course, none of this is news; "Tabula Rasa" had a similar arc
(minus the selling of digital real estate); when it wasn't the instant
success he hoped for, and when the opportunity came for him to go to
space, he pretty much dropped out of that game's development too.

And let us not forget "Ultima 9"... half the reason it's so awful is
because EA forced it out the door long before it was ready because
Garriot was bumbling about and the project was over-budget and
under-done.

So even with this latest announcement of his proposed new NFT-infected
game, I'm hesitant to assume the worst about Garriot. Is he throwing
in with the crypto-bros because he thinks it'd be a great way to
quickly swindle people out of money, or because he himself doesn't
quite understand the technology and its implications? I'm leaning
towards the latter.

Richard was never the best when it came to business; in fact, he hired
his brother to handle the business aspects for Origin so he could
focus on writing the games. It's just not his area of forté. He is a
self-educated middle-class kid come into lots of new money and he
really hasn't done much with all that cash beyond conspicuous
consumption (his ridiculous manors, trips to space, trips to the
Titanic, etc). While I've some moral issues with the latter, he earned
that money through his own hard work, so if he wants to throw it away
foolishly, so be it. But he's hardly the poster-boy I'd want at the
head of my next game.

Garriot is bright, creative and - in his own arena - skilled. His
renown for his older titles is well earned. He just doesn't have what
it takes to make games for a modern audience. Maybe he can claw his
way back into the industry, but not the way he's doing it. He's
cashing in on his name and the associated nostalgia for his older
games; whether this is due to ego (as I believe) or calculated
manipulation is uncertain. But either way, it doesn't inspire any hope
that any games he is developing will be worth buying.

>Whatever EA did with the franchise in Ultima Forever with their lootbox
>system, what Gariott did in SoTA was ten times worse. Both games bombed,
>and rightfully so.

As I said, while the end-product that was SotA was bad, I think the
intent wasn't. "Ultima Forever", on the other hand, was from day-one
intended to be a lootbox game. For me, intent matters as much as
results. As such, I've a bit more loathing for EA's offering... all
the more since it warped Ultima IV into its antithesis.

>I just wished the series would go into the hands of people actually
>wanting to make a solid single player experience instead of selling
>overpriced bits and bytes to people.

Or just let the franchise die. As much as it pains me to say it, as
much as I love the Ultima games, but it's time has come and gone. We
should never forget its lessons but let's build on them rather than
repeat them ad infinitum.

----------------------
* although I'll cheerfully acknowledge I may have a bit of a
blind-spot because of my fondness for his earlier endeavors
** It's not really a pay-to-win game, it's more a
pay-if-you-wana-have-any-fun game
*** a silly idea to start with, and one that satisfied nobody. UO fans
wanted a proper online sequel, single-player games wanted a more
traditional RPG
**** Not into Garriot's, however. He sold the game - and his
development company, Portalarium - to a separate publisher back in
2019

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 08:23:54 +0200
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 by: Werner P. - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 06:23 UTC

Am 22.04.22 um 00:34 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> I'm willing to give Garriot a pass for SotA* because I don't think he
> intended it be the pay-to-(win)** shit-show it eventually became. SotA
> was intended to half mainstream Ultima & half Ultima Online***, and
> took ideas from both. Owning 'land' was one of UO's biggest features,
> so it's no surprise it was added to Shroud. Then that became a
> convenient way to bring in bit extra development cash... and then it
> just spiraled downward, until selling to 'land investors' became the
> primary goal, rather than creating an enjoyable game.

I can´t, I personally think this was his plan all along, the shitshow
started few weeks after the kickstarter ended when they publicly made a
u-turn on their promises. He also was the one who got one of the most
infamous RMTs from the UO era on board, the one who let children in
china loot money for him.

Its not like he never had been lying to investors before the kickstarter
(Tabular Rasa comes to my mind), or lying overall (aka UO being his
design, while someone else pulled it off who came from the Mud scene, or
his overpromising on Ultima 9)

As for crypto, this is SOTA reloaded with NFTs, he even has the same
team on board (aka even guy who is feeding the SOTA corpse by being the
mothers basement CEO of the company they founded to get rid of the nasty
investors asking for their return)

But at least this time he is honest about his intentions upfront unless
he is going to drop the entire after market monetization angle and
delivers actually a game.

I doubht it however just as he saw with SOTA that Chris Roberts was
raking in millions with Star Citizen and tried to pull a similar stunt,
he now has seen that Molineux had pulled in 50 million just with pulling
an NFT stunt.

As I said, he is not in for good game design anymore, his last good game
was Ultima 4 or Ultima 5 after that others pulled it a while up for him
until he took the reigns again with Ultima 9. He is in for elevating to
the next level of millionaire and constantly fails to do so by trying to
apply get rich quick schemes and con artist methods instead of actually
delivering a good game.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 08:28:57 +0200
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 by: Werner P. - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 06:28 UTC

Am 22.04.22 um 00:34 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> Or just let the franchise die. As much as it pains me to say it, as
> much as I love the Ultima games, but it's time has come and gone. We
> should never forget its lessons but let's build on them rather than
> repeat them ad infinitum.

The franchise is basically dead anyway, it is a zombie at this stage.
Younger people dont know it anymore and the old die hards are pushed
away by the constant montarization schemes by EA and Gariott put on top
of the revival games.

It is somehow sad to see it fade it still had so much potential in it,
but the mismanagement from all sides simply killed it. There still is a
timewindow of about 10 years where a revival would be possible but then
it is entirely over and out.

Funny thing is, its biggest competitor in the 80s Wizardry has survived
by going to japan and now being japanese dungeon crawlers.
But how it ended up there is a mess of lawsuits legal mumbo jumbo and
coincidences. But in the west it is basically as dead as Ultima due to
the legal reasons and entanglements.

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 09:14:36 +0100
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 by: JAB - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 08:14 UTC

On 21/04/2022 23:34, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> I just wished the series would go into the hands of people actually
>> wanting to make a solid single player experience instead of selling
>> overpriced bits and bytes to people.
> Or just let the franchise die. As much as it pains me to say it, as
> much as I love the Ultima games, but it's time has come and gone. We
> should never forget its lessons but let's build on them rather than
> repeat them ad infinitum.

I tend to agree, games more than other forms of entrainment are bound by
technology so I wonder how you produce a game that has the feel of
Ultima while at the same time has success beyond for nostalgia reasons.

As a possible counter example, Legend of Grimrock. Now that may not use
the name Dungeon Master (a wildly successful game of its time) but yes
it really is. Looking at the sales figures it seemed to do pretty well
and at least well enough to make a sequel.

I have played it, and I did enjoy it, but I kinda think how make of that
enjoyment was because it reminded my of the gold old days (IMO) of
gaming and how much was because of the gameplay itself. I can't know for
sure but I'm betting the former had a large role in it.

Ultimately though I never finished the game as it just got a bit stale
as Dungeon Master had limitations that were a product of the technology
of the time not because a game designer thought they were a good idea.

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 10:23:53 +0200
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 by: Werner P. - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 08:23 UTC

Am 22.04.22 um 10:14 schrieb JAB:
> On 21/04/2022 23:34, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>> I just wished the series would go into the hands of people actually
>>> wanting to make a solid single player experience instead of selling
>>> overpriced bits and bytes to people.
>> Or just let the franchise die. As much as it pains me to say it, as
>> much as I love the Ultima games, but it's time has come and gone. We
>> should never forget its lessons but let's build on them rather than
>> repeat them ad infinitum.
>
> I tend to agree, games more than other forms of entrainment are bound by
> technology so I wonder how you produce a game that has the feel of
> Ultima while at the same time has success beyond for nostalgia reasons.
>
There have been some, I would add the Piranha Bytes Games to the list
especially Gothic 2 also Divinity Original Sin! Larian has removed the
day and night cycles but outside of that the games feel very Ultimaish.
There also are several indie games which harken back on the old Ultimas
with their tile graphics and there is one in development which tries to
be a 3d Ultima whatever in the veins the original Ultima 9 was planned.
There was a Kickstarter for that a while ago.

> As a possible counter example, Legend of Grimrock. Now that may not use
> the name Dungeon Master (a wildly successful game of its time) but yes
> it really is. Looking at the sales figures it seemed to do pretty well
> and at least well enough to make a sequel.
>
There have been many games in the veigns of dungeon master, but DM was
basically just building on top of Wizardry and added a little
interaction. The real milestones more than DM were in my Opinion the
Ultima Underworlds and Albion. But DM launched tons of tile step dungeon
crawlers following its example, I can give it that and it was innovative.

> I have played it, and I did enjoy it, but I kinda think how make of that
> enjoyment was because it reminded my of the gold old days (IMO) of
> gaming and how much was because of the gameplay itself. I can't know for
> sure but I'm betting the former had a large role in it.
>
> Ultimately though I never finished the game as it just got a bit stale
> as Dungeon Master had limitations that were a product of the technology
> of the time not because a game designer thought they were a good idea.

Yes I never could get into the endless hack and slash dungeon crawling
genre, tried many times, it always ended up terminating the clickfest
for good after a while. I always preferred RPG games with story over those.
In the 90s I once had the thought that those Wizardry/DM inspired
dungeon crawlers are basically the 3d shooters of RPG, light on story if
there even is one except for beating the bad boss and high on combat.

But YMMV there are enough people who loved that genre for the
statistical aspects I guess.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:50:14 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ross Ridge - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:50 UTC

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>Perhaps a better example would have been "Bards Tale I" and "Dragon
>Wars"? Why did the latter disappear from the market while the former
>series is still revered? It's not because the developer... who happen
>to be the same for both games. Certainly it's not the game itself;
>personally, I think "Dragon Wars" was the far superior product. It's
>the timing of the release and the marketing that played a much bigger
>role... yet there is a continued belief in the 'rockstar developer'
>that - I think - people like Garriot and Roberta Williams take
>advantage of.

Dragon Wars had two problems, one it wasn't named Bard's Tale 4, as it
was originally intended to be, and at that point the classic Wizardry
formula had become stale and dated. Dungeon Master, released two years
earlier, blew it out of the water in terms of innovative gameplay,
although at the expense of only working on more modern 16-bit platforms.
Pool of Radiance, released a year earlier, also made it look dated, and
on the same 8-bit platforms, although it did so by partially abandoning
the first-person dungeon crawling interface.

I'm not sure how much this really matters anyways. Richard Garriot's
name is not one that can sell many new products these days. It's not
a name like Sid Meier, which has appeared in the title of numerous
games over the last 20 years, regardless how invovled he was in them.
It's been well over 20 years since an Ultima game has been released
that anyone cared about, so even a "a game from the creator of Ultima"
isn't going to have much weight. Even EA doesn't think the Ultima name
is worth anything today.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 18:44:47 +0100
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 by: JAB - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 17:44 UTC

On 22/04/2022 09:23, Werner P. wrote:
>> As a possible counter example, Legend of Grimrock. Now that may not
>> use the name Dungeon Master (a wildly successful game of its time) but
>> yes it really is. Looking at the sales figures it seemed to do pretty
>> well and at least well enough to make a sequel.
>>
> There have been many games in the veigns of dungeon master, but DM was
> basically just building on top of Wizardry and added a little
> interaction. The real milestones more than DM were in my Opinion the
> Ultima Underworlds and Albion. But DM launched tons of tile step dungeon
> crawlers following its example, I can give it that and it was innovative.
>

DM was definitely the one I remember and part of that was back in the
day most of my purchases came from walking in a shop and then doing that
rather old fashion thing of browsing games and picking up one based on
the box. I spent a lot of time of both on it Chaos Strikes Back. This
was something quite therapeutic about not only have a piece of gridded
paper to map out the level but also a notebook if you found out how a
spell worked.

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 11:54:18 +0200
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 by: Werner P. - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:54 UTC

Am 22.04.22 um 19:44 schrieb JAB:
> On 22/04/2022 09:23, Werner P. wrote:
>>> As a possible counter example, Legend of Grimrock. Now that may not
>>> use the name Dungeon Master (a wildly successful game of its time)
>>> but yes it really is. Looking at the sales figures it seemed to do
>>> pretty well and at least well enough to make a sequel.
>>>
>> There have been many games in the veigns of dungeon master, but DM was
>> basically just building on top of Wizardry and added a little
>> interaction. The real milestones more than DM were in my Opinion the
>> Ultima Underworlds and Albion. But DM launched tons of tile step
>> dungeon crawlers following its example, I can give it that and it was
>> innovative.
>>
>
> DM was definitely the one I remember and part of that was back in the
> day most of my purchases came from walking in a shop and then doing that
> rather old fashion thing of browsing games and picking up one based on
> the box. I spent a lot of time of both on it Chaos Strikes Back. This
> was something quite therapeutic about not only have a piece of gridded
> paper to map out the level but also a notebook if you found out how a
> spell worked.
>
>
DM was the next step up from Bards tale, which added tiles based
Graphics on the Wizardry concept (which used vector graphics just like
the Ukltima dungeons). It added a little bit of interactivity and moving
monsters to the formula. The real milestone was when Ultima Underworld
came out with its 3d movement in all directions even up and down (before
castle wolfenstein 3d btw) and full interactivity in the environment,
NPCs which were lingering around with their own stories and of course
moving monsters. But even that was not the first, Albion added free 3d
first, but with less interactivity. All around the same era (1990 - 1992)
I never really got into dungeon master, went to the pc from the 8 bit
era, but I also could never really get the buzz around it. It probably
has to do that for many DM was the first real dungen crawler. I also
never could get into the hack and slash tiles movement dungeon crawler
genre at all, I tried so many times, that might play into it.

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 11:56:02 +0200
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 by: Werner P. - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:56 UTC

Am 23.04.22 um 11:54 schrieb Werner P.:

> DM was the next step up from Bards tale, which added tiles based
> Graphics on the Wizardry concept (which used vector graphics just like
> the Ukltima dungeons). It added a little bit of interactivity and moving
> monsters to the formula. The real milestone was when Ultima Underworld
> came out with its 3d movement in all directions even up and down (before
> castle wolfenstein 3d btw) and full interactivity in the environment,
> NPCs which were lingering around with their own stories and of course
> moving monsters. But even that was not the first, Albion added free 3d
> first, but with less interactivity. All around the same era (1990 - 1992)
> I never really got into dungeon master, went to the pc from the 8 bit
> era, but I also could never really get the buzz around it. It probably
> has to do that for many DM was the first real dungen crawler. I also
> never could get into the hack and slash tiles movement dungeon crawler
> genre at all, I tried so many times, that might play into it.
>
Heck even Bards Tale was not the first to add tile graphics, it was
Alternate Reality the City which did that.
An almost forgotten series of games (only 2 came out 7 were planned)
It also was one of the games which had an animated intro movie and
pushed the atari 8 bit graphics to its limits.
Too bad the series was stopped after the second part.
I always liked it more than Bards Tale.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

<t41fvc$oi3$1@dont-email.me>

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:19:22 +0100
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 by: JAB - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 18:19 UTC

On 23/04/2022 10:54, Werner P. wrote:
> Am 22.04.22 um 19:44 schrieb JAB:
>> On 22/04/2022 09:23, Werner P. wrote:
>>>> As a possible counter example, Legend of Grimrock. Now that may not
>>>> use the name Dungeon Master (a wildly successful game of its time)
>>>> but yes it really is. Looking at the sales figures it seemed to do
>>>> pretty well and at least well enough to make a sequel.
>>>>
>>> There have been many games in the veigns of dungeon master, but DM
>>> was basically just building on top of Wizardry and added a little
>>> interaction. The real milestones more than DM were in my Opinion the
>>> Ultima Underworlds and Albion. But DM launched tons of tile step
>>> dungeon crawlers following its example, I can give it that and it was
>>> innovative.
>>>
>>
>> DM was definitely the one I remember and part of that was back in the
>> day most of my purchases came from walking in a shop and then doing
>> that rather old fashion thing of browsing games and picking up one
>> based on the box. I spent a lot of time of both on it Chaos Strikes
>> Back. This was something quite therapeutic about not only have a piece
>> of gridded paper to map out the level but also a notebook if you found
>> out how a spell worked.
>>
>>
> DM was the next step up from Bards tale, which added tiles based
> Graphics on the Wizardry concept (which used vector graphics just like
> the Ukltima dungeons). It added a little bit of interactivity and moving
> monsters to the formula. The real milestone was when Ultima Underworld
> came out with its 3d movement in all directions even up and down (before
> castle wolfenstein 3d btw) and full interactivity in the environment,
> NPCs which were lingering around with their own stories and of course
> moving monsters. But even that was not the first, Albion added free 3d
> first, but with less interactivity. All around the same era (1990 - 1992)
> I never really got into dungeon master, went to the pc from the 8 bit
> era, but I also could never really get the buzz around it. It probably
> has to do that for many DM was the first real dungen crawler. I also
> never could get into the hack and slash tiles movement dungeon crawler
> genre at all, I tried so many times, that might play into it.
>

I didn't even realise there was a buzz around it. Unlike when I had a
Speccky 48k and used to expectantly wait for the next issue of Crash
magazine I just didn't buy magazines at all and I was in that cross over
period of drink and drugs was coming to the fore. Within probably a year
or so gaming had taking a complete backseat until I got a PC about ten
years later.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

<t4bhnk$kv6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 15:50:44 +0200
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 by: Werner P. - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:50 UTC

Am 23.04.22 um 20:19 schrieb JAB:
> I didn't even realise there was a buzz around it. Unlike when I had a
> Speccky 48k and used to expectantly wait for the next issue of Crash
> magazine I just didn't buy magazines at all and I was in that cross over
> period of drink and drugs was coming to the fore. Within probably a year
> or so gaming had taking a complete backseat until I got a PC about ten
> years later.
Dungeon master was huge in the late 80s when it came out, it was one of
the showcase titles of the Atari ST and also the blueprint for many tile
based first person rpgs of the early 90s.
I personally found that Alternate reality a few years earlier was way
more innovative then dungeon master, but thats a personal opinion.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 14:14:08 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:14 UTC

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 15:50:44 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 23.04.22 um 20:19 schrieb JAB:
>> I didn't even realise there was a buzz around it. Unlike when I had a
>> Speccky 48k and used to expectantly wait for the next issue of Crash
>> magazine I just didn't buy magazines at all and I was in that cross over
>> period of drink and drugs was coming to the fore. Within probably a year
>> or so gaming had taking a complete backseat until I got a PC about ten
>> years later.

>Dungeon master was huge in the late 80s when it came out, it was one of
>the showcase titles of the Atari ST and also the blueprint for many tile
>based first person rpgs of the early 90s.
>I personally found that Alternate reality a few years earlier was way
>more innovative then dungeon master, but thats a personal opinion.

I remember there being a lot of hype and excitement about the
"Alternate Reality" games when they were first released, but it didn't
seem to last; people were excited about the titles and then just as
quickly forgot them. Finding a copy in the stores - at least 'round my
parts - seemed near impossible too.

"Dungeon Master" had more lasting effect and was long-cited as the
foundational rock upon which other tile-based CRPGs were judged (even
games released years earlier). Unfortunately, by the time I got to
play it in the mid-90s, it was seriously out of date, and I didn't
think it compared all that favorably to similar games of its era
("Bards Tale", "Might & Magic", etc). And of course, by then it was
also significantly outclassed by the "Eye of the Beholder" games,
which themselves were obsoleted by "Underworld", "Arena" and the like.
So it was never a series for which I had any opportunity to be
nostalgic.

But it was really the Gold Box games that put the nail in the coffin
for the genre. Before, they were the standard everyone had to match;
after "Pool of Radiance", tile-based dungeon-crawlers felt old-hat.
They didn't die off immediately, but after the Xeen games, they were
pretty much gone from the market (except for shareware titles and the
like) until a resurgence in 2010s with games like "Legend of Grimrock"
brought them back to prominence (if still somewhat niche).

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

<t4c5pk$v9a$1@dont-email.me>

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 21:33:07 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Werner P. - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:33 UTC

Am 27.04.22 um 20:14 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> I remember there being a lot of hype and excitement about the
> "Alternate Reality" games when they were first released, but it didn't
> seem to last; people were excited about the titles and then just as
> quickly forgot them. Finding a copy in the stores - at least 'round my
> parts - seemed near impossible too.

As far as I have read, it seems the original programmer made relatively
few money despite the games being successfull, basically Datasoft
screwed him out of the money because they could deduct 100% of the
porting costs from the money he was owed. Classical movie industry trick
they applied there, i have read about this cost strategy several times
from the movie industry screwing artists out of their money that way.

Price then left the gaming industry for good.

Personal interpretation, the series died when he left taking the license
with him or parts of the license which prevented further sequels.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:09:12 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 20:09 UTC

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 21:33:07 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 27.04.22 um 20:14 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>> I remember there being a lot of hype and excitement about the
>> "Alternate Reality" games when they were first released, but it didn't
>> seem to last; people were excited about the titles and then just as
>> quickly forgot them. Finding a copy in the stores - at least 'round my
>> parts - seemed near impossible too.

>As far as I have read, it seems the original programmer made relatively
>few money despite the games being successfull, basically Datasoft
>screwed him out of the money because they could deduct 100% of the
>porting costs from the money he was owed. Classical movie industry trick
>they applied there, i have read about this cost strategy several times
>from the movie industry screwing artists out of their money that way.

Bah, amateurs. Hollywood would offer to only pay the developer a
percentage of profits, sure, but also contract the port to an outside
firm (which they actually own), at an outrageously high price. Then,
even though the product sells excellently, because the porting price
was so high, it doesn't show any profit. The original developer gets
nothing (because he was promised only a percentage of profits), the
publisher makes bank through their 'contractor', plus they escape
paying taxes ('cause there's no profit to tax) and may even get
government relief to help their 'failing' company.
Even modern-day software publishers ain't got nuthin' on Hollywood
accounting.

Still shitty behavior on Datasoft's part, if true.

>Price then left the gaming industry for good.
>Personal interpretation, the series died when he left taking the license
>with him or parts of the license which prevented further sequels.

According to The Wiki he tried in the 90s to make an Alternate Reality
MMO with Monolith, but the project failed due to a lack of funds.
Whatever his skill at game development, he was not a lucky guy when it
came to the business side of things ;-)

Then again, even had the original Alternate Reality games been
profitable enough for him to keep making more games, its questionable
that the rest of the series would have fared as well as the first game
(and even that received mixed reviews; IIRC, many praised its ideas
more than the actual implementation). Odds are that the sequels would
have been inferior, as not only would Price have had to keep making
new games, but also updating them with new technologies.

This just goes back to the earlier argument about how the success of
these older games (and modern games too) owes as much to timing and
other factors as the actual game itself, which in itself questions why
we should care if a famous developer from times past throws his hat
back into the ring after years or decades of absence.

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