I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.

MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
uses serial.

Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?

https://ardent-tool.com/video/GA18-2634-0_IBM_3151_ASCII_Display_Station_Reference_Manual_Apr1987.pdf

The U.S. English machine does not use a cartridge for its operation in
native (3151) or built-in emulation mode.

On 7/17/2021 09:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
>
> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
> uses serial.
>
> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?

On Saturday, 17 July 2021 at 15:23:20 UTC+1, Louis Ohland wrote:
> https://ardent-tool.com/video/GA18-2634-0_IBM_3151_ASCII_Display_Station_Reference_Manual_Apr1987.pdf
>
> The U.S. English machine does not use a cartridge for its operation in
> native (3151) or built-in emulation mode.
> On 7/17/2021 09:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
> > I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
> > depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
> >
> > MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
> > uses serial.
> >
> > Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?

I don't know about real 3151 models, but the 3153 InfoWindow II had ASCII and PC keyboard supporting models:
https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/7/649/ENUSA95-1087/index.html&request_locale=en

I have one that takes PC style (PS/2) keyboards.

Tim, is there a network related document on the 3151? The IBMNET
collection has titles that are alpha numeric and they aren't human
understandable.

On 7/17/2021 11:39, WBSTClarke wrote:
> On Saturday, 17 July 2021 at 15:23:20 UTC+1, Louis Ohland wrote:
>> https://ardent-tool.com/video/GA18-2634-0_IBM_3151_ASCII_Display_Station_Reference_Manual_Apr1987.pdf
>>
>> The U.S. English machine does not use a cartridge for its operation in
>> native (3151) or built-in emulation mode.
>> On 7/17/2021 09:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
>>> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
>>> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
>>>
>>> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
>>> uses serial.
>>>
>>> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?
>
> I don't know about real 3151 models, but the 3153 InfoWindow II had ASCII and PC keyboard supporting models:
> https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/7/649/ENUSA95-1087/index.html&request_locale=en
>
> I have one that takes PC style (PS/2) keyboards.
>

This photo gives me hope that it could work:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3101#/media/File:IBM_3151_-_z_klawiatur%C4%85.jpg

But I'm not sure if the regular 122-key InfoWindow K/B is the same as
that Polish one, internally that is. Oh well, we will soon find out...

On 17.7.2021 16:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
>
> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
> uses serial.
>
> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?

Suggests 3151 was designed and built initially in Japan. The 55 in yours
identifies it as Greenock production. If we are lucky, the Japanese
style of component labels will still be used. I hope.

My suspicion is this used latches like the early monitors and will need
a long, thin tool to pop the latches.

On 7/17/2021 13:02, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
> This photo gives me hope that it could work:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3101#/media/File:IBM_3151_-_z_klawiatur%C4%85.jpg
>
> But I'm not sure if the regular 122-key InfoWindow K/B is the same as
> that Polish one, internally that is. Oh well, we will soon find out...
>
> On 17.7.2021 16:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
>> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
>> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
>>
>> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
>> uses serial.
>>
>> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?
>

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/3151/pictures/

On 7/17/2021 15:00, Louis Ohland wrote:
> Suggests 3151 was designed and built initially in Japan. The 55 in yours
> identifies it as Greenock production. If we are lucky, the Japanese
> style of component labels will still be used. I hope.
>
> My suspicion is this used latches like the early monitors and will need
> a long, thin tool to pop the latches.
>
> On 7/17/2021 13:02, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
>> This photo gives me hope that it could work:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3101#/media/File:IBM_3151_-_z_klawiatur%C4%85.jpg
>>
>>
>> But I'm not sure if the regular 122-key InfoWindow K/B is the same as
>> that Polish one, internally that is. Oh well, we will soon find out...
>>
>> On 17.7.2021 16:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
>>> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
>>> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
>>>
>>> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
>>> uses serial.
>>>
>>> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?
>>
>

Damn, the logic is on the same board as the HV stuff? That's kinda
disappointing...

On 17.7.2021 22:21, Louis Ohland wrote:
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/3151/pictures/
>
>
> On 7/17/2021 15:00, Louis Ohland wrote:
>> Suggests 3151 was designed and built initially in Japan. The 55 in
>> yours identifies it as Greenock production. If we are lucky, the
>> Japanese style of component labels will still be used. I hope.
>>
>> My suspicion is this used latches like the early monitors and will
>> need a long, thin tool to pop the latches.
>>
>> On 7/17/2021 13:02, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
>>> This photo gives me hope that it could work:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3101#/media/File:IBM_3151_-_z_klawiatur%C4%85.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> But I'm not sure if the regular 122-key InfoWindow K/B is the same as
>>> that Polish one, internally that is. Oh well, we will soon find out...
>>>
>>> On 17.7.2021 16:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
>>>> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
>>>> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
>>>>
>>>> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
>>>> uses serial.
>>>>
>>>> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?
>>>
>>
>

Backup battery soldered in, meh... meh.

On 17.7.2021 23:14, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
> Damn, the logic is on the same board as the HV stuff? That's kinda
> disappointing...
>
> On 17.7.2021 22:21, Louis Ohland wrote:
>> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/3151/pictures/
>>
>>
>> On 7/17/2021 15:00, Louis Ohland wrote:
>>> Suggests 3151 was designed and built initially in Japan. The 55 in
>>> yours identifies it as Greenock production. If we are lucky, the
>>> Japanese style of component labels will still be used. I hope.
>>>
>>> My suspicion is this used latches like the early monitors and will
>>> need a long, thin tool to pop the latches.
>>>
>>> On 7/17/2021 13:02, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
>>>> This photo gives me hope that it could work:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3101#/media/File:IBM_3151_-_z_klawiatur%C4%85.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But I'm not sure if the regular 122-key InfoWindow K/B is the same as
>>>> that Polish one, internally that is. Oh well, we will soon find out...
>>>>
>>>> On 17.7.2021 16:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
>>>>> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
>>>>> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
>>>>>
>>>>> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
>>>>> uses serial.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

On Saturday, 17 July 2021 at 17:48:38 UTC+1, Louis Ohland wrote:
> Tim, is there a network related document on the 3151? The IBMNET
> collection has titles that are alpha numeric and they aren't human
> understandable.
> On 7/17/2021 11:39, WBSTClarke wrote:
> > On Saturday, 17 July 2021 at 15:23:20 UTC+1, Louis Ohland wrote:
> >> https://ardent-tool.com/video/GA18-2634-0_IBM_3151_ASCII_Display_Station_Reference_Manual_Apr1987.pdf
> >>
> >> The U.S. English machine does not use a cartridge for its operation in
> >> native (3151) or built-in emulation mode.
> >> On 7/17/2021 09:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
> >>> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
> >>> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
> >>>
> >>> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
> >>> uses serial.
> >>>
> >>> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?
> >
> > I don't know about real 3151 models, but the 3153 InfoWindow II had ASCII and PC keyboard supporting models:
> > https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/7/649/ENUSA95-1087/index.html&request_locale=en
> >
> > I have one that takes PC style (PS/2) keyboards.
> >

I don't think there was ever a model that supported the 122-key "Host Connect" PS/2 keyboard, at least not fully, as the extra (left columns) special function keys were 3270-controller specific.
https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/1/897/ENUS189-071/index.html&request_locale=en

On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 15:21:56 -0500, Louis Ohland <ohland@charter.net>
wrote:

>http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/3151/pictures/
>
>
>On 7/17/2021 15:00, Louis Ohland wrote:
>> Suggests 3151 was designed and built initially in Japan. The 55 in yours
>> identifies it as Greenock production. If we are lucky, the Japanese
>> style of component labels will still be used. I hope.
>>
>> My suspicion is this used latches like the early monitors and will need
>> a long, thin tool to pop the latches.
>>
>> On 7/17/2021 13:02, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
>>> This photo gives me hope that it could work:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3101#/media/File:IBM_3151_-_z_klawiatur%C4%85.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> But I'm not sure if the regular 122-key InfoWindow K/B is the same as
>>> that Polish one, internally that is. Oh well, we will soon find out...
>>>
>>> On 17.7.2021 16:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
>>>> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
>>>> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
>>>>
>>>> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
>>>> uses serial.
>>>>
>>>> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?
>>>
>>

These things were FRUs so you know more about them than we did. We
just ordered new one, put a RID tag (hand written S/N) on it and it
was the old one. It didn't take long until the RID tag thing was so
corrupted, if you had a broke one, we would give you a new one if you
had some on maintenance.

Happy to announce that the 122-key InfoWindow keyboard works fine with
the 3151.

The 9595 isn't so happy with this combo - it throws error 306
(Unsupported keyboard attached), but aside from that it works fine too.

But I have to say, the 3151 is really cheaply made... and it's held
together by a single, but very annoying, anti-tamper screw. Meh...

On 17.7.2021 16:14, Louis Ohland wrote:
> I've gone through the RETAIN tips and the few announcement letters,
> depending on model, it's an 84 key, 102 key, or twinax keyboard.
>
> MAJ Tom sniped a 3151, unk model [S/N 55-ADT46 ???], on his side. It
> uses serial.
>
> Can he use a 122 key on it, and just loose support for the extra keys?

Um, why is the 122 key keyboard attached to a 3151 unsupported? I grok
that it most likely uses scan codes a little different, but this is a
serial console attached device.

On 7/30/2021 09:44, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
> The 9595 isn't so happy with this combo - it throws error 306
> (Unsupported keyboard attached), but aside from that it works fine too.

Could be a bug in the POST code... remember how we had to patch the
CONSOLE.COM to enable the "ASCII Terminal" option (without having to
remove the video adapter and what not). There may be more problems in
the firmware and maybe it's testing the local keyboard when it
shouldn't... so it could be unrelated to the 122-key keyboard. But I'd
expect 301 in that case. Dunno.

I'll check what's going on in the firmware, and I'll also try testing it
on some other system (85 K/N...).

On 30.7.2021 16:46, Louis Ohland wrote:
> Um, why is the 122 key keyboard attached to a 3151 unsupported? I grok
> that it most likely uses scan codes a little different, but this is a
> serial console attached device.
>
> On 7/30/2021 09:44, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
>> The 9595 isn't so happy with this combo - it throws error 306
>> (Unsupported keyboard attached), but aside from that it works fine too.
>

Yeah I think it's touching the local keyboard when it shouldn't. If I
force it to use the 3151 even with local video/keyboard connected by
setting the console option to "ASCII Terminal", it's happy. But if I
disconnect the local keyboard in this mode, it throws the 306 I've
mentioned.

The local K/B is disabled if the terminal mode is active, so this must
be a bug... if you run the diags after the 306 (as it tells you to do)
it then throws 301 during the K/B tests.

The ASCII console feature is a little bit janky tbh. Maybe it worked
better in the earlier firmware/refdisk versions and they just didn't
bother testing it properly with the subsequent releases... introducing
new bugs to the code. Or maybe it was never polished that much to begin
with. But it's still kinda neat.

https://ardent-tool.com/3151/3151_95_Refdisk_Logo.jpg

I'll try to make it available outside of the system programs later on...

On 30.7.2021 17:04, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
> Could be a bug in the POST code... remember how we had to patch the
> CONSOLE.COM to enable the "ASCII Terminal" option (without having to
> remove the video adapter and what not). There may be more problems in
> the firmware and maybe it's testing the local keyboard when it
> shouldn't... so it could be unrelated to the 122-key keyboard. But I'd
> expect 301 in that case. Dunno.
>
> I'll check what's going on in the firmware, and I'll also try testing it
> on some other system (85 K/N...).
>
> On 30.7.2021 16:46, Louis Ohland wrote:
>> Um, why is the 122 key keyboard attached to a 3151 unsupported? I grok
>> that it most likely uses scan codes a little different, but this is a
>> serial console attached device.
>>
>> On 7/30/2021 09:44, Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
>>> The 9595 isn't so happy with this combo - it throws error 306
>>> (Unsupported keyboard attached), but aside from that it works fine too.
>>
>