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computers / comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action / Re: Garriot Returns (again)

SubjectAuthor
* Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
+* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
|`* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
| +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
| `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Ross Ridge
|  `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
|   +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Dimensional Traveler
|   `- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Ross Ridge
+- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
`* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
 `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
  `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
   `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
    +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
    +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
    `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
     `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
      `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
       `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
        +- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
        `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)JAB
         `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
          `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
           `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
            `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
             `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
              `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.
               `* Re: Garriot Returns (again)Spalls Hurgenson
                `- Re: Garriot Returns (again)Werner P.

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Re: Garriot Returns (again)

<t4dcl1$tkn$1@dont-email.me>

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:36:16 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Werner P. - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 06:36 UTC

Am 27.04.22 um 22:09 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> Then again, even had the original Alternate Reality games been
> profitable enough for him to keep making more games
According to an interview with him Datasoft made millions on the games,
they sold really well, but he was offered peanuts aka a small expense
compensation to hold him for sequels. He left because he was sick
earning 15.000 per year and basically having to live from a backyard
garage while they were raking in millions from Alternate Reality. He
still worked later in the gaming business but more on the military avian
simulation side where he could program "games" but still made better
money. I cannot find the interview anymore but you can google it up
somehwere.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

<t4dcs5$usa$1@dont-email.me>

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:40:04 +0200
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 by: Werner P. - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 06:40 UTC

Am 28.04.22 um 08:36 schrieb Werner P.:
> According to an interview with him Datasoft made millions on the games,
> they sold really well, but he was offered peanuts aka a small expense
> compensation to hold him for sequels. He left because he was sick
> earning 15.000 per year and basically having to live from a backyard
> garage while they were raking in millions from Alternate Reality. He
> still worked later in the gaming business but more on the military avian
> simulation side where he could program "games" but still made better
> money. I cannot find the interview anymore but you can google it up
> somehwere.
Either way he worked on both games the same time, left when The City was
done and the Dungeon was fairly far in progress, others picked up where
he left The Dungeon and wrapped it up as finished game, after that no
other parts came out. The interview stated that he had planned the game
as expansion game, every part expanded the original city with new
portals into new worlds hence rewriting the original city executable
slightly. In the end he wanted to have a continous portal world
consisting of the 7 parts planned and various different endings on how
you leave the planet for good.
Would not have worked out on the 8 bit versions because the line of
computers basically died for good in 1987 (85 the city was released)
might have worked out for the 16 bit ports though.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:24:31 -0400
Message-ID: <4r7l6htq3qstvhp2lppmvv9ju7m50m0jf1@4ax.com>
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:24 UTC

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:40:04 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 28.04.22 um 08:36 schrieb Werner P.:
>> According to an interview with him Datasoft made millions on the games,
>> they sold really well, but he was offered peanuts aka a small expense
>> compensation to hold him for sequels. He left because he was sick
>> earning 15.000 per year and basically having to live from a backyard
>> garage while they were raking in millions from Alternate Reality. He
>> still worked later in the gaming business but more on the military avian
>> simulation side where he could program "games" but still made better
>> money. I cannot find the interview anymore but you can google it up
>> somehwere.
>Either way he worked on both games the same time, left when The City was
>done and the Dungeon was fairly far in progress, others picked up where
>he left The Dungeon and wrapped it up as finished game, after that no
>other parts came out. The interview stated that he had planned the game
>as expansion game, every part expanded the original city with new
>portals into new worlds hence rewriting the original city executable
>slightly. In the end he wanted to have a continous portal world
>consisting of the 7 parts planned and various different endings on how
>you leave the planet for good.
>Would not have worked out on the 8 bit versions because the line of
>computers basically died for good in 1987 (85 the city was released)
>might have worked out for the 16 bit ports though.

Given it took two years between the release of AR:TC and AR:TD, I
don't think it would have worked on 16-bits either. At that rate, it
would have taken until 1997 to finish the series, and there is a lot
of difference between the games of '85 and games of '97... certainly a
lot more than what could be added by tweaking the executables.

If the goal was to create a continuous world that included all six
(seven) games, he'd either a) have had to be constantly redesigning
the earlier games to make them fit in with the newer games, b) try to
sell what was essentially an 8-bit game against titles like "Quake 2",
or c) abandon the whole concept and create what were franchise sequels
that shared the IP but were otherwise wholey separate. This latter
option would have been the most workable (and sellable) of the three,
but it would have reduced the series to nothing more special than any
of its competitors.

The conceit behind the Alternate Reality games was a nifty one - and
largely why it gained such high praise on its initial release - but
its acutal implementation was all but impossible back then. The speed
at which the technology was evolving and the small size of the
development teams made it unworkable.

It probably could work today, though. Graphics have, for a long time,
been 'good enough', especially if go for a more stylistic approach,
and there's a 'common core' to controls and basic game mechanics. In
1997, few people would have wanted to play a game 12 years out of
date, because the games looked and played old. These days, it's common
to do so (e.g., "Minecraft"). There's also a lot more support for
games developed by small (or even 1-man) development houses.

If Price has truly left the industry, it's a shame, because he
probably could have pulled off his vision more easily today than back
in 1985. All the more so since 'retro' gaming is more popular than
ever.

Re: Garriot Returns (again)

<t4ecav$cjb$1@dont-email.me>

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Garriot Returns (again)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:37:02 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Werner P. - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:37 UTC

Am 28.04.22 um 16:24 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> If Price has truly left the industry, it's a shame, because he
> probably could have pulled off his vision more easily today than back
> in 1985. All the more so since 'retro' gaming is more popular than
> ever.
Well he was an early genious who was shafted out of the industry by
greedy executives. It really is a shame he ever only did 2 games, it
would have been interesting what he could have done in the 90s when
small teams were possible to pull big commercial projects, given his
ideas he was floating. Nowadays as you said it is again possible with
the better tooling to get projects up with small teams if you cut down
on the artwork and people would accept it, but I doubt we will ever see
another game from him again.

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