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computers / comp.ai.philosophy / Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..

SubjectAuthor
* Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..olcott
`* Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..Mr Flibble
 `- Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..olcott

1
Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..

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Subject: Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..
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From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:06:09 -0500
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 by: olcott - Tue, 27 Jul 2021 21:06 UTC

On 7/27/2021 2:47 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 14:14:20 -0500
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/27/2021 2:02 PM, Peter wrote:
>>> Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>> .. due to the infinite recursion missed by Strachey blowing the
>>>> stack of any turing machine simulator with finite memory (stack)
>>>> size.  One
>>>
>>> Turing machines don't have stacks.  Stack machines have (of course)
>>> stacks of limitless length.
>>>
>>
>> Flibble's reasoning is correct, yet based on my 2016 reasoning.
>
> It is based on my own reasoning not yours, dear.
>
> /Flibble
>

It is documented that I came up with the idea of infinitely nested
recursion/simulation in 2016. I have posted this idea very extensively
in this forum long before you even understood the nature of the halting
problem proofs.

It looks like the original specification provided
in the Linz text may be infinitely recursive in
that each TM requires its own input.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307509556_Self_Modifying_Turing_Machine_SMTM_Solution_to_the_Halting_Problem_concrete_example

It was shortly before you posted this message that you showed that you
understood the difference between refuting the halting problem proofs
and solving the halting problem.

On 7/10/2021 12:00 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> I agree with Olcott that a halt decider can NOT be part of that which
> is being decided (see [Strachey 1965]) which, if Olcott is correct,
> falsifies a collection of proofs (which I don't have the time to
> examine) which rely on that mistake. >
> /Flibble
>

Prior to this there was no indication that you understood the mechanism
of the conventional proofs at all. After this you proved that you
understood this mechanism far better that most everyone else.

--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein

Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..

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From: flib...@reddwarf.jmc (Mr Flibble)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy,comp.software-eng,sci.math.symbolic
Subject: Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..
Message-ID: <20210728173514.00003a18@reddwarf.jmc>
References: <20210727183426.00002ff2@reddwarf.jmc>
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 by: Mr Flibble - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 16:35 UTC

On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:06:09 -0500
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:

> On 7/27/2021 2:47 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 14:14:20 -0500
> > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/27/2021 2:02 PM, Peter wrote:
> >>> Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>>> .. due to the infinite recursion missed by Strachey blowing the
> >>>> stack of any turing machine simulator with finite memory (stack)
> >>>> size.  One
> >>>
> >>> Turing machines don't have stacks.  Stack machines have (of
> >>> course) stacks of limitless length.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Flibble's reasoning is correct, yet based on my 2016 reasoning.
> >
> > It is based on my own reasoning not yours, dear.
> >
> > /Flibble
> >
>
> It is documented that I came up with the idea of infinitely nested
> recursion/simulation in 2016. I have posted this idea very
> extensively in this forum long before you even understood the nature
> of the halting problem proofs.
>
> It looks like the original specification provided
> in the Linz text may be infinitely recursive in
> that each TM requires its own input.
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307509556_Self_Modifying_Turing_Machine_SMTM_Solution_to_the_Halting_Problem_concrete_example
>
>
> It was shortly before you posted this message that you showed that
> you understood the difference between refuting the halting problem
> proofs and solving the halting problem.
>
> On 7/10/2021 12:00 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > I agree with Olcott that a halt decider can NOT be part of that
> > which is being decided (see [Strachey 1965]) which, if Olcott is
> > correct, falsifies a collection of proofs (which I don't have the
> > time to examine) which rely on that mistake. >
> > /Flibble
> >
>
> Prior to this there was no indication that you understood the
> mechanism of the conventional proofs at all. After this you proved
> that you understood this mechanism far better that most everyone else.
Two people can arrive at the same conclusion independently you know. I
pointed out to you that [Strachey 1965] was pathological/erroneous due
to the decider being part of or called by that which is being decided
(P) which gives arise to a necessarily tri-state decision result with
the third result state being that P is invalid.

/Flibble

Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 12:31:08 -0500
Subject: Re: The contradiction that the HP is predicated on is detectable ..
Newsgroups: comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy,comp.software-eng,sci.math.symbolic
References: <20210727183426.00002ff2@reddwarf.jmc>
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<20210728173514.00003a18@reddwarf.jmc>
From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 12:31:07 -0500
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 by: olcott - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 17:31 UTC

On 7/28/2021 11:35 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:06:09 -0500
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/27/2021 2:47 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 14:14:20 -0500
>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/27/2021 2:02 PM, Peter wrote:
>>>>> Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>> .. due to the infinite recursion missed by Strachey blowing the
>>>>>> stack of any turing machine simulator with finite memory (stack)
>>>>>> size.  One
>>>>>
>>>>> Turing machines don't have stacks.  Stack machines have (of
>>>>> course) stacks of limitless length.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Flibble's reasoning is correct, yet based on my 2016 reasoning.
>>>
>>> It is based on my own reasoning not yours, dear.
>>>
>>> /Flibble
>>>
>>
>> It is documented that I came up with the idea of infinitely nested
>> recursion/simulation in 2016. I have posted this idea very
>> extensively in this forum long before you even understood the nature
>> of the halting problem proofs.
>>
>> It looks like the original specification provided
>> in the Linz text may be infinitely recursive in
>> that each TM requires its own input.
>>
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307509556_Self_Modifying_Turing_Machine_SMTM_Solution_to_the_Halting_Problem_concrete_example
>>
>>
>> It was shortly before you posted this message that you showed that
>> you understood the difference between refuting the halting problem
>> proofs and solving the halting problem.
>>
>> On 7/10/2021 12:00 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> > I agree with Olcott that a halt decider can NOT be part of that
>> > which is being decided (see [Strachey 1965]) which, if Olcott is
>> > correct, falsifies a collection of proofs (which I don't have the
>> > time to examine) which rely on that mistake. >
>> > /Flibble
>> >
>>
>> Prior to this there was no indication that you understood the
>> mechanism of the conventional proofs at all. After this you proved
>> that you understood this mechanism far better that most everyone else.
>
> Two people can arrive at the same conclusion independently you know. I
> pointed out to you that [Strachey 1965] was pathological/erroneous due
> to the decider being part of or called by that which is being decided
> (P) which gives arise to a necessarily tri-state decision result with
> the third result state being that P is invalid.
>
> /Flibble
>

I said this back in 2004.

--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein

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