This is a technical and not a moral question.
It's often said that the more you share, the faster the downloads.
But is it?

How does the bit torrent app know you've shared a lot already?

If the algorithm does make your downloads faster if you're uploading, how
does it know what you did yesterday or the day before?

Or is it only on the current file you're downloading that the sharing
speeds up the downloading?

On 6/11/2023 5:15 PM, Beyond the pale wrote:
> This is a technical and not a moral question.
> It's often said that the more you share, the faster the downloads.
> But is it?
>
> How does the bit torrent app know you've shared a lot already?
>
> If the algorithm does make your downloads faster if you're uploading, how
> does it know what you did yesterday or the day before?
>
> Or is it only on the current file you're downloading that the sharing
> speeds up the downloading?
>

Find a thread and see how the kids do it ?

https://forum.utorrent.com/topic/38802-what-is-a-good-share-ratio/

Torrents have an up/down ratio. However, asymmetric network interfaces
(like ADSL), your upload bandwidth is pretty limited, and that
works against you. You can't really have a high ratio, because if
you allow too much uploads, it interferes with ACK packets for your
downloaded content. This means that the Internet type you use,
determines whether you're a leech or not. A leech is someone
who does not give back. I have 15:1 ADSL2, and I can't exactly
do a lot of uploads -- I can barely Zoom Conference.

It's possible to do a torrent, and nothing is uploaded.

You could, for example, leave the computer running, and after
enough days, your up/down ratio might be looking good. I don't
know enough about the protocol and metadata, to say how much
weight is given to your behavior as a user.

Torrenting can involve a lot of connections. The connection
table in your router can overflow (due to stale connections
not aging out fast enough to make room for new connections).
The above thread refers to outsiders interfering with the
torrent process, by offering useless links, and that's the
sort of thing that could tip over your router. (Routers
sometimes reboot, a flashing light may be seen on the router,
and your torrent session will have to recover itself later.)

Various articles, refer to routers that are better for
torrenting, and less likely to tip over when you're out
of the room.

My router is so so weak, Windows Update tipped it over one day :-)
The red LED came on, the router rebooted. I thought this
was pretty funny. Rickety piece of shit. At the time, Windows
Update could open maybe 20 connections (and such behavior,
"starves" other computers using that same router). They have
since adjusted that behavior, so it doesn't use quite as many
connections today. And that's the kind of router, that would be
a "forget it" if testing a Torrent was called for.

The connection table on a good home router, might support 1K connections
without too much sweat. You can see how far from "good" my little
router is.

Paul

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 04:43:49 -0400, Paul wrote:

> Find a thread and see how the kids do it ?
>
> https://forum.utorrent.com/topic/38802-what-is-a-good-share-ratio/

Thank you for digging up that thread from about 15 years ago as it's
essentially the same question I've been wondering for about as long.

That thread exemplifies why I asked if it's an old wives tales or not.

The first post saw no difference between downloads at a share ratio of 1:1
versus 2:1, and even then, he doesn't say if it's only one item shared.

Another guy asks how to get the share ratio & the answer was you can't.
The implication is the software can figure that out, but is that a myth?

It was never determined whether the share ratio is truly used, nor if it is
used, if it's for only the one file you're obtaining or for your history.

> Torrents have an up/down ratio. However, asymmetric network interfaces
> (like ADSL), your upload bandwidth is pretty limited, and that
> works against you. You can't really have a high ratio, because if
> you allow too much uploads, it interferes with ACK packets for your
> downloaded content. This means that the Internet type you use,
> determines whether you're a leech or not. A leech is someone
> who does not give back. I have 15:1 ADSL2, and I can't exactly
> do a lot of uploads -- I can barely Zoom Conference.

They said a 2:1 is good where I generally set mine to stop at 4:1,
but that doesn't seem to change my speeds - which is why I asked.

> It's possible to do a torrent, and nothing is uploaded.

That would be a dick thing to do.
> You could, for example, leave the computer running, and after
> enough days, your up/down ratio might be looking good. I don't
> know enough about the protocol and metadata, to say how much
> weight is given to your behavior as a user.

I don't see any difference in download even with a 4:1 ratio.

> Torrenting can involve a lot of connections. The connection
> table in your router can overflow (due to stale connections
> not aging out fast enough to make room for new connections).
> The above thread refers to outsiders interfering with the
> torrent process, by offering useless links, and that's the
> sort of thing that could tip over your router. (Routers
> sometimes reboot, a flashing light may be seen on the router,
> and your torrent session will have to recover itself later.)

I don't have that issue as far as I'm aware of such things.

> Various articles, refer to routers that are better for
> torrenting, and less likely to tip over when you're out
> of the room.

Mine is a standard high end consumer router that works fine.

> My router is so so weak, Windows Update tipped it over one day :-)
> The red LED came on, the router rebooted. I thought this
> was pretty funny. Rickety piece of shit. At the time, Windows
> Update could open maybe 20 connections (and such behavior,
> "starves" other computers using that same router). They have
> since adjusted that behavior, so it doesn't use quite as many
> connections today. And that's the kind of router, that would be
> a "forget it" if testing a Torrent was called for.
>
> The connection table on a good home router, might support 1K connections
> without too much sweat. You can see how far from "good" my little
> router is.

I am beginning to suspect that the share ratio common wisdom is a myth.

On 6/12/2023 5:52 AM, Beyond the pale wrote:

> I am beginning to suspect that the share ratio common wisdom is a myth.
>

I decided to take a look here for fun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent

"Private host/tracker sites operate like public ones except that they
may restrict access to registered users and may also keep track of
the amount of data each user uploads and downloads, in an attempt
to reduce "leeching".
"

So I would guess you'd need a significant amount of experience
to have seen all these things. Me downloading a Linux ISO over
torrent, wasn't exactly "experience".

Paul

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 14:01:14 -0400, Paul wrote:

>> I am beginning to suspect that the share ratio common wisdom is a myth.
>>
>
> I decided to take a look here for fun.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent
>
> "Private host/tracker sites operate like public ones except that they
> may restrict access to registered users and may also keep track of
> the amount of data each user uploads and downloads, in an attempt
> to reduce "leeching".
> "
>
> So I would guess you'd need a significant amount of experience
> to have seen all these things. Me downloading a Linux ISO over
> torrent, wasn't exactly "experience".

Thank you for looking that up, where the fact that the "private" site can
keep track of your history is kind of where I was leaning on share ratios.

I think the whole share ratio thing is almost completely a myth.

I think, practically, given a public torrent and a normal torrent app like
{qBittorrent,uTorrent,Vuze,Transmission,Tixati,qBittorrent,FrostWire,etc}
there's nothing they can track other than your IP address which itself is
almost always going to be a VPN so even that isn't likely to be consistent.

In a purely practical sense, the only thing the bittorent server can know
about you given the nature of what people torrent, is the file you want.

For that file, they can certainly track your download and upload ratio.
But in general you have zero percent at the start & 100% at the finish.

So there's nothing, really, that the client "can" do, to change speeds.
Does that logic make sense to you?

If that's true, then it's a myth that the torrent speeds up when you've
shared more since you haven't shared much until you've already gotten it.

I guess if you shared that one file for a month, and then you tried to get
ANOTHER file, then (and only then) could it prioritize your next download.

But who leaves their torrent client running fulltime? Not me.
I run it when I need a torrent, and then I have the share ratio set to 4:1.
When that's reached, I flip it off (usually I let it run overnight).

I don't want it running while I'm doing things during the day.
I would think most people are this way. Aren't they?

On 6/12/2023 11:45 PM, Beyond the pale wrote:

>
> But who leaves their torrent client running fulltime? Not me.
> I run it when I need a torrent, and then I have the share ratio set to 4:1.
> When that's reached, I flip it off (usually I let it run overnight).
>
> I don't want it running while I'm doing things during the day.
> I would think most people are this way. Aren't they?
>

People who do this stuff continuously, they use a separate
machine and that is not their daily driver. If they're going out
of the house, they shut down their daily driver, and the torrent
machine just keeps going.

Paul

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 01:25:04 -0400, Paul wrote:

>> But who leaves their torrent client running fulltime? Not me.
>> I run it when I need a torrent, and then I have the share ratio set to 4:1.
>> When that's reached, I flip it off (usually I let it run overnight).
>>
>> I don't want it running while I'm doing things during the day.
>> I would think most people are this way. Aren't they?
>>
>
> People who do this stuff continuously, they use a separate
> machine and that is not their daily driver. If they're going out
> of the house, they shut down their daily driver, and the torrent
> machine just keeps going.

I don't think anyone has ever lost a case contesting a torrent in the USA
but I'm sure many have received the mandatory DMCA notices from their ISP.
https://www.bittorrentvpn.com/what-is-dmca-notice/

I'm sure plenty of people just paid rather than contest the torrent in
court but USA laws make it almost impossible (if not impossible) to lose a
case that you contest because they have to prove you shared the whole file.

And you probably didn't (unless you seeded it for a very long time).

Even so, nobody wants a DMCA warning from there ISP where I'm told my ISP
has sent my neighbors notices but that's all the ISP can do as far as I
know. I have never gotten any DMCA notice (but I use VPN when torrenting).

My neighbors tell me my ISP uses the six strikes rule before suspension.
But with a VPN, you're not the one uploading anyway. The VPN is.

At least that is what is says here.
https://www.raynersw.com/netshade/bait-torrents-and-dmca-spam

"When bait-torrents catch a would-be Game of Thrones downloader who's using
a VPN, they send a DMCA email to whoever owns the IP address of the VPN
server. The problem is that the notice claims that the person is hosting
the torrent (since torrent clients usually share files in both directions,)
but when you're using a VPN the torrent is 1-directional so you're not
hosting anything."

The guys who run a separate server must be doing it on a full time VPN.
Legally, that says it's the VPN who is doing the torrenting. Not you.