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computers / alt.os.linux.mint / Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

SubjectAuthor
* ssd about to fail - what to do?Monsieur
+* Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Nic
|`* Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Monsieur
| `- Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Nic
+- Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Gordon
+- Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Big Al
+* Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Paul
|`- Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Monsieur
`* Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Monsieur
 `* Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Paul
  `- Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?Monsieur

1
ssd about to fail - what to do?

<ukfpsj$28o8s$1@solani.org>

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From: Monsi...@notreal.invalid (Monsieur)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: ssd about to fail - what to do?
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2023 18:35:15 +0100
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 by: Monsieur - Sat, 2 Dec 2023 17:35 UTC

I have 2 ssd's in my pc: sda and sdb. Mint is on sdb2.

About a month ago, Mint started booting into a "Busybox" instead of
booting normally. Looked on the internet, typed "exit" to see what was
wrong (something with sdb2) and applied "fsck /dev/sdb2 -y" as
suggested. That made the problem go away for a while, but it came back
quite a few times.

Meanwhile the problem got worse. I have no more Busyboxes when booting,
but Mint just freezes execution at the Mint logo. Restarting helps, but
sometimes I need to restart three or four times. Even then, I sometimes
boot into my desktop where every icon is locked and the whole sdb2 is
"read-only". Yet another reboot fixes the problem most of the time.

So I think it's about time I did something about it, but I'm not sure what.

Could I just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free) and boot from
there? This probably is too simple and I guess Mint would just go crazy.

Using disks, I made an image of the partition. Would it help if I
formatted sdb2 and put the image back?

Or should I just buy a new ssd and copy the whole disk using dd? Would
that work?

Thanks for any ideas.

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<N%JaN.138146$cAm7.58301@fx18.iad>

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Subject: Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?
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From: Nic...@none.net (Nic)
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 by: Nic - Sat, 2 Dec 2023 17:42 UTC

On 12/2/23 12:35 PM, Monsieur wrote:
>
> I have 2 ssd's in my pc: sda and sdb. Mint is on sdb2.
>
> About a month ago, Mint started booting into a "Busybox" instead of
> booting normally. Looked on the internet, typed "exit" to see what was
> wrong (something with sdb2) and applied "fsck /dev/sdb2 -y" as
> suggested. That made the problem go away for a while, but it came back
> quite a few times.
>
> Meanwhile the problem got worse. I have no more Busyboxes when
> booting, but Mint just freezes execution at the Mint logo. Restarting
> helps, but sometimes I need to restart three or four times. Even then,
> I sometimes boot into my desktop where every icon is locked and the
> whole sdb2 is "read-only". Yet another reboot fixes the problem most
> of the time.
>
> So I think it's about time I did something about it, but I'm not sure
> what.
>
> Could I just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free) and boot
> from there? This probably is too simple and I guess Mint would just go
> crazy.
>
> Using disks, I made an image of the partition. Would it help if I
> formatted sdb2 and put the image back?
>
> Or should I just buy a new ssd and copy the whole disk using dd? Would
> that work?
>
> Thanks for any ideas.
just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free), is your best option

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<ukfre7$28p6v$1@solani.org>

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From: Monsi...@notreal.invalid (Monsieur)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2023 19:01:42 +0100
Message-ID: <ukfre7$28p6v$1@solani.org>
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 by: Monsieur - Sat, 2 Dec 2023 18:01 UTC

Nic wrote:
> On 12/2/23 12:35 PM, Monsieur wrote:

>> Could I just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free) and boot
>> from there? This probably is too simple and I guess Mint would just go
>> crazy.
>>
>> Using disks, I made an image of the partition. Would it help if I
>> formatted sdb2 and put the image back?
>>
>> Or should I just buy a new ssd and copy the whole disk using dd? Would
>> that work?
>>
>> Thanks for any ideas.
> just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free), is your best option

Thanks I'll give it a try. I would have thought this would not work, but
it can't hurt to try and see what happens.

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<Q_LaN.168461$BbXa.73072@fx16.iad>

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Subject: Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?
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 by: Nic - Sat, 2 Dec 2023 19:57 UTC

On 12/2/23 1:01 PM, Monsieur wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> On 12/2/23 12:35 PM, Monsieur wrote:
>
>>> Could I just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free) and boot
>>> from there? This probably is too simple and I guess Mint would just
>>> go crazy.
>>>
>>> Using disks, I made an image of the partition. Would it help if I
>>> formatted sdb2 and put the image back?
>>>
>>> Or should I just buy a new ssd and copy the whole disk using dd?
>>> Would that work?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any ideas.
>> just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free), is your best option
>
> Thanks I'll give it a try. I would have thought this would not work,
> but it can't hurt to try and see what happens.
>
>
>
There is the matter of a corrupted installation that could cause
problems, moving the contents of the questionable drive to the working
drive would vindicate a corrupted installation an verify a bad drive.

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<kt1oljF3u8eU5@mid.individual.net>

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From: Gor...@leaf.net.nz (Gordon)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?
Date: 2 Dec 2023 22:16:19 GMT
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 by: Gordon - Sat, 2 Dec 2023 22:16 UTC

On 2023-12-02, Monsieur <Monsieur@notreal.invalid> wrote:
>
> I have 2 ssd's in my pc: sda and sdb. Mint is on sdb2.
>
> About a month ago, Mint started booting into a "Busybox" instead of
> booting normally. Looked on the internet, typed "exit" to see what was
> wrong (something with sdb2) and applied "fsck /dev/sdb2 -y" as
> suggested. That made the problem go away for a while, but it came back
> quite a few times.
>
> Meanwhile the problem got worse. I have no more Busyboxes when booting,
> but Mint just freezes execution at the Mint logo. Restarting helps, but
> sometimes I need to restart three or four times. Even then, I sometimes
> boot into my desktop where every icon is locked and the whole sdb2 is
> "read-only". Yet another reboot fixes the problem most of the time.
>
> So I think it's about time I did something about it, but I'm not sure what.
>
> Could I just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free) and boot from
> there? This probably is too simple and I guess Mint would just go crazy.
>
> Using disks, I made an image of the partition. Would it help if I
> formatted sdb2 and put the image back?
>
> Or should I just buy a new ssd and copy the whole disk using dd? Would
> that work?
>
> Thanks for any ideas.

Right, first thing is to copy the data off, or check the backup us up to
date.

Now as Nic said dd will likely copy across any errors.

Starting a fresh install on a new SSD seems to be the route to me. Or if
money is tight install it onto the blank SSD. Try dd if you like as it might
work, work. I seem to recall that dd fails if it can not read the byte. dd
rescure keeps trying.kx

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<ukgael$2h7pl$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Bea...@invalid.com (Big Al)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2023 17:17:57 -0500
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 by: Big Al - Sat, 2 Dec 2023 22:17 UTC

On 12/2/23 12:35 PM, this is what Monsieur wrote:
>
> I have 2 ssd's in my pc: sda and sdb. Mint is on sdb2.
>
> About a month ago, Mint started booting into a "Busybox" instead of booting normally. Looked on the internet, typed
> "exit" to see what was wrong (something with sdb2) and applied "fsck /dev/sdb2 -y" as suggested. That made the problem
> go away for a while, but it came back quite a few times.
>
> Meanwhile the problem got worse. I have no more Busyboxes when booting, but Mint just freezes execution at the Mint
> logo. Restarting helps, but sometimes I need to restart three or four times. Even then, I sometimes boot into my desktop
> where every icon is locked and the whole sdb2 is "read-only". Yet another reboot fixes the problem most of the time.
>
> So I think it's about time I did something about it, but I'm not sure what.
>
> Could I just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free) and boot from there? This probably is too simple and I guess
> Mint would just go crazy.
>
> Using disks, I made an image of the partition. Would it help if I formatted sdb2 and put the image back?
>
> Or should I just buy a new ssd and copy the whole disk using dd? Would that work?
>
> Thanks for any ideas.
If you can, or need the space on sda1, then buy a new ssd, if money isn't an issue.
Either way you do it, get that ssd out.
Have you seen the smart stats?
--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<ukgbpg$2hfrj$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
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 by: Paul - Sat, 2 Dec 2023 22:40 UTC

On 12/2/2023 12:35 PM, Monsieur wrote:
>
> I have 2 ssd's in my pc: sda and sdb. Mint is on sdb2.
>
> About a month ago, Mint started booting into a "Busybox" instead of booting normally. Looked on the internet, typed "exit" to see what was wrong (something with sdb2) and applied "fsck /dev/sdb2 -y" as suggested. That made the problem go away for a while, but it came back quite a few times.
>
> Meanwhile the problem got worse. I have no more Busyboxes when booting, but Mint just freezes execution at the Mint logo. Restarting helps, but sometimes I need to restart three or four times. Even then, I sometimes boot into my desktop where every icon is locked and the whole sdb2 is "read-only". Yet another reboot fixes the problem most of the time.
>
> So I think it's about time I did something about it, but I'm not sure what.
>
> Could I just dd the partition sdb2 to sda1 (which is free) and boot from there? This probably is too simple and I guess Mint would just go crazy.
>
> Using disks, I made an image of the partition. Would it help if I formatted sdb2 and put the image back?
>
> Or should I just buy a new ssd and copy the whole disk using dd? Would that work?
>
> Thanks for any ideas.

A person such as yourself, should have a Boot-Repair CD.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair

https://sourceforge.net/projects/boot-repair-cd/files/

boot-repair-disk-32bit.iso 2021-12-16 975.2 MB
boot-repair-disk-64bit.iso 2020-06-13 922.7 MB

I want you to have a tool, so you can help yourself.
I cannot predict, what will happen. If this is your only
computer and you have no other, you may lose communications
with us.

This is the best I can do, as an "automated repair", and the
Boot-Repair is not perfection. It has rough edges. It does
not like "strange" setups and can make a mess if you challenge it.

*******

Personal opinion, if you're not comfortable sorting boot issues,
you should clone at the full disk level.

SDA
SDB ------- clone -----> New_SSD

Use a LiveDVD and do the cloning from there.

Now, once the cloning is complete (there are three drives in the
PC at the moment), you will be unplugging SDB and using New_SSD
in its place. DO NOT try to boot from any hard drive , until
this step is complete!

SDA
New_SSD # SDB is now sitting on the table, and it is retired.
# Do not plug SDB into the PC, while New_SSD is plugged in.
# This ensures it boots OK, the New_SSD.

Since none of the BLKIDs were changed, the relative position of
partitions on the disk is unchanged, now the computer will boot
EXACTLY as it did before. There should not be a need for the
Boot-Repair CD at this point. It is still good to have at
least one Boot-Repair CD handy.

*******

ntfsclone and partclone/extclone are "helper" applications in Clonezilla.
This is what gives Clonezilla its prowess as a "smart cloner".
A Smart Cloner wears on the new SSD, a lot less than using
"dd" to clone would do. This is a preferred solution for cloning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonezilla

The interface is command line (ugh!)

You can trundle through this.

https://clonezilla.org/downloads.php

Or you can see the potential download sizes, with this.

# Ubuntu based

https://sourceforge.net/projects/clonezilla/files/clonezilla_live_alternative_testing/20231125-mantic/

# Debian based

https://sourceforge.net/projects/clonezilla/files/clonezilla_live_stable/3.1.1-27/

Both appear to fit on CDs.
You can boot that CD, when the three drives are
present, and clone the broken drive, to the new_SSD.

The new drive should be the same size, or it could be
bigger than the old drive.

Many drives, have CHS-based size declarations that are the same
as one another, which means fewer complaints from
cloning software that checks the disk size for
compatibility. Thus, both 512GB SSDs will report the same
size to the cloning software.

To move a larger disk drive to a smaller new disk drive,
takes some kind of partition management software. gparted
can help.

But WARNING: -- you should NOT be making excessive writes to
drive SDB at the current time, as it is near failure. The
drive should be treated with respect, if you expect to
clone it, before it is too late. Consequently, DO NOT use
GParted on SDB. Just safely clone the information to new_SSD,
and we can worry about other issues later. If New_SSD is
bigger than SDB, there will be a large unallocated section
on the right.

This means, your new drive should be same-size or it should be
bigger, than SDB. This can result in the least wear and tear on SDB.

*******

You can use backup and restore methods, if you are in a "well equipped lab" setting.

*******

When you make the CDs, obviously you should not be doing two ISO
downloads onto SDB as the booted OS drive. That's taking a risk
you could kill the SDB drive, which is weak and of unknown remaining
lifespan.

Ideally, you need a second computer, to prepare the materials
mentioned above. The DVD for Boot-Repair and the CD for Clonezilla.

*******

If the clone attempt fails, the alternative is gddrescue package
and the ddrescue executable. It can copy disks which have CRC errors.

gnome-disks # Makes visualizing the disks a bit easier.

sudo apt install gddrescue

man ddrescue # make sure the arguments are correct
# make doubly-sure the sdX identifiers are correct!!!

sudo ddrescue -n /dev/sdb /dev/sdc rescued.log # First pass...

gedit rescued.log # examine to see errors
# if you are curious

sudo ddrescue -r 1 /dev/sda /dev/sdc rescued.log # Second pass tries to
# copy just the CRC error sectors,
# It reads "rescued.log" to figure out
# the large sections that don't need to be copied.

Paul

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<ukio4p$2a8uo$1@solani.org>

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From: Monsi...@notreal.invalid (Monsieur)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 21:23:52 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <ukgbpg$2hfrj$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Monsieur - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 20:23 UTC

Paul wrote:

> A person such as yourself, should have a Boot-Repair CD.
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/boot-repair-cd/files/
>
> boot-repair-disk-32bit.iso 2021-12-16 975.2 MB
> boot-repair-disk-64bit.iso 2020-06-13 922.7 MB
>
> I want you to have a tool, so you can help yourself.
> I cannot predict, what will happen. If this is your only
> computer and you have no other, you may lose communications
> with us.
>
> This is the best I can do, as an "automated repair", and the
> Boot-Repair is not perfection. It has rough edges. It does
> not like "strange" setups and can make a mess if you challenge it.

Yes, I tried the boot-repair cd (well, usb-stick) but that didn't do
much to be honest. If I'm not mistaken, the main application of that cd
(boot repair) is also included in any Mint live-iso (but isn't included
when you install Mint).

> Personal opinion, if you're not comfortable sorting boot issues,
> you should clone at the full disk level.
>
> SDA
> SDB ------- clone -----> New_SSD
>
> Use a LiveDVD and do the cloning from there.
>
> Now, once the cloning is complete (there are three drives in the
> PC at the moment), you will be unplugging SDB and using New_SSD
> in its place. DO NOT try to boot from any hard drive , until
> this step is complete!
>
> SDA
> New_SSD # SDB is now sitting on the table, and it is retired.
> # Do not plug SDB into the PC, while New_SSD is plugged in.
> # This ensures it boots OK, the New_SSD.
>
> Since none of the BLKIDs were changed, the relative position of
> partitions on the disk is unchanged, now the computer will boot
> EXACTLY as it did before. There should not be a need for the
> Boot-Repair CD at this point. It is still good to have at
> least one Boot-Repair CD handy.

Understood. I have just ordered a new 1Tb ssd from Amazon, so I'll start
cloning as soon as it arrives in the mail.

>
> *******
>
> ntfsclone and partclone/extclone are "helper" applications in Clonezilla.
> This is what gives Clonezilla its prowess as a "smart cloner".
> A Smart Cloner wears on the new SSD, a lot less than using
> "dd" to clone would do. This is a preferred solution for cloning.

Does it really have to be Clonezilla? I already cloned sdb2 with the
program "disks" from the Mint accessories menu. Isn't that one smart enough?

[...]

> The new drive should be the same size, or it could be
> bigger than the old drive.

It will be the same size (1Tb) and I just know that Clonezilla will
complain about this, just like it did in a previous attempt a few years ago:

https://www.cjoint.com/data/MLdujaWI16B_Clonezilla.png

That's why I really don't like Clonezilla... 209716 Mb is *NOT* smaller
than 209716 Mb. Those Clonezilla guys should learn to count properly.

[...]

> This means, your new drive should be same-size or it should be
> bigger, than SDB. This can result in the least wear and tear on SDB.

It will be the same size, but like I said, Clonezilla will probably make
a fuss about it anyway.

Anyway, thank you for your help and taking your time to explain the
process in so much detail.

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<ul4389$2j4ms$1@solani.org>

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From: Monsi...@notreal.invalid (Monsieur)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 11:17:44 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <ukfpsj$28o8s$1@solani.org>
 by: Monsieur - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 10:17 UTC

Monsieur wrote:
>
> I have 2 ssd's in my pc: sda and sdb. Mint is on sdb2.
>
> About a month ago, Mint started booting into a "Busybox" instead of
> booting normally. Looked on the internet, typed "exit" to see what was
> wrong (something with sdb2) and applied "fsck /dev/sdb2 -y" as
> suggested. That made the problem go away for a while, but it came back
> quite a few times.
>
> Meanwhile the problem got worse. I have no more Busyboxes when booting,
> but Mint just freezes execution at the Mint logo. Restarting helps, but
> sometimes I need to restart three or four times. Even then, I sometimes
> boot into my desktop where every icon is locked and the whole sdb2 is
> "read-only". Yet another reboot fixes the problem most of the time.
>
> So I think it's about time I did something about it, but I'm not sure what.

Well everything is fine again. I cloned the disk with Clonezilla (took
11 hours) and plugged it in. Grub of course was very confused, but
fortunately a boot repair from a live usb was all that was needed to
repair it. Now Mint on sdb2 no longer trips on bad sectors and no longer
freezes during boot.

The luks-partition sdb3 however did not work. Clonezilla had used dd to
clone this one, but when I tried to mount it afterwards I got all kinds
of weird errors. Bad magic number, bad superblock and other scary stuff.
Spent a few hours online to try to fix it, but in the end I completely
messed up the partition. So I reformatted it, and copied the contents
from the old disk to the freshly formatted one. All good.

Lesson learned: never clone a luks-partition, just copy the contents
directly to another drive/partition.

Have a nice day.

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<ul4n0l$2nq4m$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 10:54:59 -0500
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In-Reply-To: <ul4389$2j4ms$1@solani.org>
 by: Paul - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 15:54 UTC

On 12/10/2023 5:17 AM, Monsieur wrote:
> Monsieur wrote:
>>
>> I have 2 ssd's in my pc: sda and sdb. Mint is on sdb2.
>>
>> About a month ago, Mint started booting into a "Busybox" instead of booting normally. Looked on the internet, typed "exit" to see what was wrong (something with sdb2) and applied "fsck /dev/sdb2 -y" as suggested. That made the problem go away for a while, but it came back quite a few times.
>>
>> Meanwhile the problem got worse. I have no more Busyboxes when booting, but Mint just freezes execution at the Mint logo. Restarting helps, but sometimes I need to restart three or four times. Even then, I sometimes boot into my desktop where every icon is locked and the whole sdb2 is "read-only". Yet another reboot fixes the problem most of the time.
>>
>> So I think it's about time I did something about it, but I'm not sure what.
>
> Well everything is fine again. I cloned the disk with Clonezilla (took 11 hours) and plugged it in. Grub of course was very confused, but fortunately a boot repair from a live usb was all that was needed to repair it. Now Mint on sdb2 no longer trips on bad sectors and no longer freezes during boot.
>
> The luks-partition sdb3 however did not work. Clonezilla had used dd to clone this one, but when I tried to mount it afterwards I got all kinds of weird errors. Bad magic number, bad superblock and other scary stuff. Spent a few hours online to try to fix it, but in the end I completely messed up the partition. So I reformatted it, and copied the contents from the old disk to the freshly formatted one. All good.
>
> Lesson learned: never clone a luks-partition, just copy the contents directly to another drive/partition.
>
> Have a nice day.

When you worked on the LUKS partition, was the thing
not being accessed at the time ?

Anything being dd-copied, needs to be "at rest" when copied.
It can't be "open". It can't be "mounted".

Clonezilla is likely smart enough to dis-mount a regular
partition, but it might not be "LUKS-aware" enough to do
the job for that, and it would be up to the human
operator to quiesce (close/dismount) the chunk of stuff being copied.

If your plan is to continue using LUKS, I would practice
my handling procedures some more, until I could make a copy
without a problem showing up.

Paul

Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?

<ul4tmb$2jr9n$1@solani.org>

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From: Monsi...@notreal.invalid (Monsieur)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: ssd about to fail - what to do?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:48:59 +0100
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 by: Monsieur - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 17:48 UTC

Paul wrote:

> When you worked on the LUKS partition, was the thing
> not being accessed at the time ?
>
> Anything being dd-copied, needs to be "at rest" when copied.
> It can't be "open". It can't be "mounted".

Of course not. I booted Clonezilla from a live-usb, so how could I have
mounted it?

> Clonezilla is likely smart enough to dis-mount a regular
> partition, but it might not be "LUKS-aware" enough to do
> the job for that, and it would be up to the human
> operator to quiesce (close/dismount) the chunk of stuff being copied.

Well, that was not the problem. Nothing was mounted or open.

> If your plan is to continue using LUKS, I would practice
> my handling procedures some more, until I could make a copy
> without a problem showing up.

I did everything correctly. I have been using LUKS partitions and disks
for years and never had any problem, never had the need to go
troubleshooting anything. LUKS "just works".

See also:

6.15 Can I clone a LUKS container?

https://gitlab.com/cryptsetup/cryptsetup/-/wikis/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#6-backup-and-data-recovery

"The right way to do this is to first luksFormat the target container,
then to clone the contents of the source container, with both containers
mapped, i.e. decrypted. You can clone the decrypted contents of a LUKS
container in binary mode, although you may run into secondary issues
with GUIDs in filesystems, partition tables, RAID-components and the
like. These are just the normal problems binary cloning causes."

Look like I just ran into one of those secondary issues. Perhaps it was
the grub-update that caused the problem? Anyway, whatever it was,
recreating the partition from scratch and copying the contents was
indeed "the right way to do this".

1
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