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computers / alt.os.linux.mint / Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

SubjectAuthor
* [OT] New desktop (part 4)pinnerite
+* Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)Nic
|`* Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)pinnerite
| `* Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)Jeff Layman
|  `* Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)pinnerite
|   `- Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)pinnerite
+- Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)Paul
+- Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)Heinz Schmitz
+- Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)pinnerite
`* Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)pinnerite
 `- Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)Paul

1
[OT] New desktop (part 4)

<20231201155852.72eafeb08f3fcba7a5207816@gmail.com>

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From: pinner...@gmail.com (pinnerite)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: [OT] New desktop (part 4)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 15:58:52 +0000
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 by: pinnerite - Fri, 1 Dec 2023 15:58 UTC

Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).

I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!

I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.

I am in the UK by the way!

--
Linux Mint 21.1 kernel version 5.15.0-89-generic Cinnamon 5.6.8
AMD Phenom II x4 955 CPU 16Gb Dram 2TB Barracuda

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

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 by: Nic - Fri, 1 Dec 2023 16:34 UTC

On 12/1/23 10:58 AM, pinnerite wrote:
> Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
> I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).
>
> I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!
>
> I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
> I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.
>
> I am in the UK by the way!
>
>
Look here https://pcpartpicker.com/products/case/

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

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From: pinner...@gmail.com (pinnerite)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 17:56:40 +0000
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 by: pinnerite - Fri, 1 Dec 2023 17:56 UTC

On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 11:34:41 -0500
Nic <Nic@none.net> wrote:

> On 12/1/23 10:58 AM, pinnerite wrote:
> > Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
> > I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).
> >
> > I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!
> >
> > I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
> > I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.
> >
> > I am in the UK by the way!
> >
> >
> Look here https://pcpartpicker.com/products/case/

Thank you. The site doesn't give dimensions and it is based on the other side of the world.

:(

--
Linux Mint 21.1 kernel version 5.15.0-89-generic Cinnamon 5.6.8
AMD Phenom II x4 955 CPU 16Gb Dram 2TB Barracuda

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 13:12:48 -0500
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 by: Paul - Fri, 1 Dec 2023 18:12 UTC

On 12/1/2023 10:58 AM, pinnerite wrote:
> Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
> I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).
>
> I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!
>
> I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
> I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.
>
> I am in the UK by the way!

Knowing the make and model of the computer case would help,
for the one you've got. Is it officially classed as a "Mid-tower",
or did it receive some other classification ?

My current case, is 47cm to the front of the facade, while the
metal frame work end to end is 45cm.

My Sonata is 45cm from back-of-case to optical-drive-facade.

These are older mid-tower cases and irrelevant.

By selecting a higher power PSU, the metal casing on those is longer.
And you need to allocate some room for bending radius of the
exiting loom. Or, room for the modular cables to turn and descend.
That's if you have the PSU up-top, on a conventional case design.

My PSU is 14CM or so, depth, which leaves a gap to the back
of the optical drive bay. Some of the quad transformer PSUs,
the casing was so long, it pulled right up to the back of the
optical drive. Optical drives got a bit shorter over time, as
they removed excess volume from them.

*******

If you want a bigger case, try adding "EATX" into the search.

Skybuck got a monster case, MSI branded (Prospect 700R), and
it has the PSU on the bottom instead of up-top. When the PSU
is on the bottom, it tends to make the upper section look
"more roomy". But MSI has also done away with conventional
storage though. You can't use a Fortron PSU on a thing like
that, as you need extra cable length on the PSU for routing.

This isn't the Prospect, which is just, too expensive for
a computer case. This is another MSI, just to illustrate
the PSU on the bottom concept. I'm not recommending this,
because of the handling of storage.

"MPG GUNGNIR 300R Airflow" Unimaginatively, "everything is fans fans fans"
(Half the price of the Prospect 700R, but still expensive, and bad HDD handling)

https://www.amazon.ca/MSI-Premium-Mid-Tower-Gaming-Case/dp/B0CJ5YM9N3

And that much airflow, simply isn't necessary. You need a decent
front to back flow. You can put a 37.5mm thick fan on the back, if you
want a bloody Hoover. (I have such a fan here, and it draws 1 amp
of current. It was an impulse buy, back when we had an electronics
store. I bought it, because it's all metal, and doubles as a
Cuisinart. It would do a real job on fingers.)

OK, here we have a winner.

Many flaws, but it covers off the essentials. It is around 1/4 the
price of the 700R, and it has conventional storage. Both the front
and back panels come off. It has provision for backside cable routing.
PSU is in the bottom. I hate glass panels, but what are you gonna do.
I would be adding pieces of rubber, to damp the glass panel, if it
doesn't already have rubber.

"Phanteks Enthoo Pro TG PH-ES614PTG_BK Tempered Glass ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Black"

Motherboard Compatibility *E-ATX* / ATX / uATX / mITX / SSI EEB

Max GPU Length 13.6 inches w/ HDD cages in place

https://www.newegg.com/black-phanteks-enthoo-pro-atx-full-tower/p/N82E16811854069

Here is a UK URL for the thing.

https://www.novatech.co.uk/products/phanteks-enthoo-pro-black-tempered-glass-tower-chassis/ph-es614ptg_bk.html

Find a review somewhere, before buying anything, as a good review
can spot issues before you do.

I don't know how best to help you on the "system didn't start".
Check for +5VSB. I keep a power LED inside the chassis of mine,
to tell me +5VSB is there. Systems will still start and present
fan spinning, even with the ATX12V CPU power connector missing
in action (on a Biostar, you can burn something if you run it
that way, since they connect ATX12V rails to main 24-pin rail,
which you should not do).

Usually, the FP header for the reset and power buttons, is defensively
designed, so it's pretty hard to mis-align the connectors and
actually burn something. If you short out +5VSB, it is a relatively
low power output, it is current limited, and it will silently
sit there while you work out where the short is. If you have a
monitor LED, it makes it easier to determine the +5VSB is not
present (yet).

Since you're a former computer builder, you would have an adapter
for PSU test, to make a connection from GND to PS_ON#. You test
the PSU, before the build starts. I have a jig to apply a
dummy load to the thing as well But a GND to PS_ON# test will
verify that "some fan starts to spin" or whatever.

Paul

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

<ukd83p$1v9ag$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Jef...@invalid.invalid (Jeff Layman)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 18:19:37 +0000
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 by: Jeff Layman - Fri, 1 Dec 2023 18:19 UTC

On 01/12/2023 17:56, pinnerite wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 11:34:41 -0500
> Nic <Nic@none.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12/1/23 10:58 AM, pinnerite wrote:
>>> Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
>>> I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).
>>>
>>> I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!
>>>
>>> I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
>>> I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.
>>>
>>> I am in the UK by the way!
>>>
>>>
>> Look here https://pcpartpicker.com/products/case/
>
> Thank you. The site doesn't give dimensions and it is based on the other side of the world.

It does, but it's a bit awkward to find out. Firstly, click on the
dropdown arrow next to "United States" at top right, and select "United
Kingdom" (if you can see it! It's just above United States at the
bottom). Then you have to choose cases of interest by ticking the box
next to them, and then clicking on "Compare selected" at the top of the
list. A new page opens with info on the selected cases, including
dimensions.

--

Jeff

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 18:50:54 +0000
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 by: pinnerite - Fri, 1 Dec 2023 18:50 UTC

On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 18:19:37 +0000
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 01/12/2023 17:56, pinnerite wrote:
> > On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 11:34:41 -0500
> > Nic <Nic@none.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/1/23 10:58 AM, pinnerite wrote:
> >>> Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
> >>> I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).
> >>>
> >>> I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!
> >>>
> >>> I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
> >>> I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.
> >>>
> >>> I am in the UK by the way!
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Look here https://pcpartpicker.com/products/case/
> >
> > Thank you. The site doesn't give dimensions and it is based on the other side of the world.
>
> It does, but it's a bit awkward to find out. Firstly, click on the
> dropdown arrow next to "United States" at top right, and select "United
> Kingdom" (if you can see it! It's just above United States at the
> bottom). Then you have to choose cases of interest by ticking the box
> next to them, and then clicking on "Compare selected" at the top of the
> list. A new page opens with info on the selected cases, including
> dimensions.
>
> --
>
> Jeff
>

You are right but I still don't see the depth measurement which is
important to me. I may have found somthing suitable and have written
for clarification.

Regards, Alan

--
Linux Mint 21.1 kernel version 5.15.0-89-generic Cinnamon 5.6.8
AMD Phenom II x4 955 CPU 16Gb Dram 2TB Barracuda

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

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Subject: Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)
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 by: Heinz Schmitz - Sat, 2 Dec 2023 09:17 UTC

pinnerite wrote:

>Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
>I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).

I am surprised:
- to hear that a standard PC-case is too small to take up standard
PC-components. My guess is that most purchases of such are made
by walk-in customers and that most of them just buy what is
available, instead of a a special brand with special dimensions,
- to have to fear that the proper working of a PC depends on the
size of the casing, like ours would depend on the size of our
underpants.

>I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!
>
>I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
>I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.

In such a case I visit the kitchen, eat a bite, and return to read
again all the accompanying papers and check all diagrams,
because it will be certain that I made a mistake somewhere.

>I am in the UK by the way!

When I had to enjoy life on your island, I too suffered from the
local crooked units of measurement. Only the queen used to
keep a trace of order and reason :-).

Regards,
H.

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

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 by: pinnerite - Mon, 4 Dec 2023 19:32 UTC

On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 15:58:52 +0000
pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:

> Having got all the bits, I started to install them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
> I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).
>
> I plugged all the leads in, switched on and waited to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to check anything. On top of which wverything is black!
>
> I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
> I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.
>
I found one on Overclockers site. It will be delivered tomorrow.
I would like to continue to use a caddy for a 5.25" HD but it may not accept it.
A minor disapointment if so.

Regards, Alan

--
Linux Mint 21.1 kernel version 5.15.0-89-generic Cinnamon 5.6.8
AMD Phenom II x4 955 CPU 16Gb Dram 2TB Barracuda.

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

<20231207190210.bca91b49c4e9a3e6ea255d69@gmail.com>

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From: pinner...@gmail.com (pinnerite)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2023 19:02:10 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: pinnerite - Thu, 7 Dec 2023 19:02 UTC

On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 18:50:54 +0000
pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 18:19:37 +0000
> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On 01/12/2023 17:56, pinnerite wrote:
> > > On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 11:34:41 -0500
> > > Nic <Nic@none.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 12/1/23 10:58 AM, pinnerite wrote:
> > >>> Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
> > >>> I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).
> > >>>
> > >>> I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!
> > >>>
> > >>> I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
> > >>> I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.
> > >>>
> > >>> I am in the UK by the way!
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> Look here https://pcpartpicker.com/products/case/
> > >
> > > Thank you. The site doesn't give dimensions and it is based on the other side of the world.
> >
> > It does, but it's a bit awkward to find out. Firstly, click on the
> > dropdown arrow next to "United States" at top right, and select "United
> > Kingdom" (if you can see it! It's just above United States at the
> > bottom). Then you have to choose cases of interest by ticking the box
> > next to them, and then clicking on "Compare selected" at the top of the
> > list. A new page opens with info on the selected cases, including
> > dimensions.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Jeff
> >
>
> You are right but I still don't see the depth measurement which is
> important to me. I may have found somthing suitable and have written
> for clarification.
>
> Regards, Alan

I found exactly the right case at Overclockers. the depth is about 50cm.
Well not quite exactly I couldn't mount a bare 3.5" drive. Anyway I have ordered a 5.25" to 3.5" bracket for £4.99.It arrives next week.

Onto the software.

Regards, Alan

--
Linux Mint 21.1 kernel version 5.15.0-89-generic Cinnamon 5.6.8
AMD Phenom II x4 955 CPU 16Gb Dram 2TB Barracuda

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

<20231208215140.679e9cfc17afaa6519c6e23d@gmail.com>

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From: pinner...@gmail.com (pinnerite)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 21:51:40 +0000
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 by: pinnerite - Fri, 8 Dec 2023 21:51 UTC

On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 15:58:52 +0000
pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:

> Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
> I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).
>
> I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!
>
> I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
> I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.
>
> I am in the UK by the way!

I found a replacement case on Overclockers.
Jonsbo QT01-Black Midi Tower Case £79.99 a bit pricey but very well
made.

The only problem was that facilities for fitting a 3.5" drive
into a 5.25" bay was not included.

There were loads of fixings for things I couldn't work out what they
could be.

A bracket to fit the drive is coming next week. Meanwhile everything
else is installed. I am nervous to start testing before everything is
in place for fear of mucking up my sdx numbers.
Unfortunately space and lead length makes it dodgy to place the case on
its side and rest th drive on the metalwork.

Patience my mother use to quote, is a virtue. I've always wanted to be
virtuous. Time to start I suppose.

--
Linux Mint 21.1 kernel version 5.15.0-89-generic Cinnamon 5.6.8
AMD Phenom II x4 955 CPU 16Gb Dram 2TB Barracuda

Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)

<ul07b6$1tjg4$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mint
Subject: Re: [OT] New desktop (part 4)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 18:03:01 -0500
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 by: Paul - Fri, 8 Dec 2023 23:03 UTC

On 12/8/2023 4:51 PM, pinnerite wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 15:58:52 +0000
> pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Having got all the bits, I started to instal them only to discover front-to-back the case was 50mm shorter than the two I have now.
>> I persevered and got everything in (with an HD caddy and a DVD player sticking out by about 5mm).
>>
>> I plugged all the leads in, switched on nd wased to see the screens powering up but nothing else happened. There is no space to anything. On top of which wverything is black!
>>
>> I decided it was hopeless and time to find an alternative Midi case.
>> I am damned if I can find one 45cm deep.
>>
>> I am in the UK by the way!
>
> I found a replacement case on Overclockers.
> Jonsbo QT01-Black Midi Tower Case £79.99 a bit pricey but very well
> made.
>
> The only problem was that facilities for fitting a 3.5" drive
> into a 5.25" bay was not included.
>
> There were loads of fixings for things I couldn't work out what they
> could be.
>
> A bracket to fit the drive is coming next week. Meanwhile everything
> else is installed. I am nervous to start testing before everything is
> in place for fear of mucking up my sdx numbers.
> Unfortunately space and lead length makes it dodgy to place the case on
> its side and rest th drive on the metalwork.
>
> Patience my mother use to quote, is a virtue. I've always wanted to be
> virtuous. Time to start I suppose.
>

Adapters for 3.5" drives in 5.25" bays were hardly, if ever, included
as part of the computer case.

The computer case comes with "sliders" to slide the 5.25" device into
its 5.25" bay. You buy spacers (U-channels in the old days), which come
with screws, and the U-channels bolt to the smaller drive and increase
the width dimension. Then, the sliders that came with the computer case,
bold to the side of the U-channel.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/d1bdjTnT/3point5-rail-kit.gif

It's possible that particular kit, came in a Maxtor retail box. Retail disk
drive boxes have included in the past, as promotions (one of these items,
per box):

rail kit
copy of Photoshop Lite
Promise UltraTX2 IDE card

I was pulling some prehistoric crud out of a computer case yesterday
(reusing the case for newer hardware), and it had one of those in it.
A 3.5" drive in a 5.25" hole.

I have my doubts I could find a U-channel kit at my computer store.

And that U-channel kit, won't bolt to a 22TB HDD. The HDD has the
holes in the wrong place. 6TB or lower drives, might have the mounting
holes, where the rail-kit will work.

Paul

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