Older desktop with 4 GB of ram installed. It is a bit confusing on
whether or not I can use 4 GB sticks to get to a total of 8 GB ram since
I've updated this to 64 bit Win 10 . Though the board actually has
positions for 4 slots, only 2 actual memory slots were used.
Documentation says you can use twice the amount of ram if you go 64 over
32 bit.

The board in question is an Asus Motherboard M2N68-LA Rev:A01

<https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/855392/ASUS/M2N68-LA/1>

I realize it might not help much, but now for example, it is using 89%
of the 4GB installed just writing this. I guess the question is did
Asus limit what they say could be installed because that is only what
they tested at the time back then? Some of my searching does seem to
suggest people are running 4 GB sticks in each slot just fine, though
they might have a later revision than mine. One I read said that
Windows showed the 8 GB, but the bios didn't recognize it. I'm OK with
that as long as it runs with the desired amount.

It does take a not so great ram, "240-pin DDR2 DIMM slots Supports Dual
Channel DDR2 800/667/533 MHz non-ECC, un-buffered memory (Max 4GB)",
that is not as cheap as newer stuff. But, I'd be willing to try and get
some if anyone thinks it would recognize it.

I might just try it either way, so I wouldn't hold it against anyone
if'n it doesn't recognize it. Just looking for a little more wisdom
than I have on this problem.

sticks

On 08/08/2023 17:38, sticks wrote:

> Older desktop with 4 GB of ram installed.  It is a bit confusing on
> whether or not I can use 4 GB sticks to get to a total of 8 GB ram since
> I've updated this to 64 bit Win 10 .  Though the board actually has
> positions for 4 slots, only 2 actual memory slots were used.

the manual says it only support 1GB sized sticks, though if you have 4GB
from two stick, it actually must support 2GB sticks (not uncommon for
BIOS updates to improve that)

So I think it'd be a worthwhile shot to fit 4x2GB for 8GB

> Documentation says you can use twice the amount of ram if you go 64 over
> 32 bit.

Windows 32 bit was only licenced for 4GB (minus about 400MB reserved
space) so that's probably what it means, 64bit doesn't have that limit.

> The board in question is an Asus Motherboard M2N68-LA Rev:A01
>
> <https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/855392/ASUS/M2N68-LA/1>
>
> I realize it might not help much, but now for example, it is using 89%
> of the 4GB installed just writing this.  I guess the question is did
> Asus limit what they say could be installed because that is only what
> they tested at the time back then?  Some of my searching does seem to
> suggest people are running 4 GB sticks in each slot just fine, though
> they might have a later revision than mine.  One I read said that
> Windows showed the 8 GB, but the bios didn't recognize it.  I'm OK with
> that as long as it runs with the desired amount.
>
> It does take a not so great ram, "240-pin DDR2 DIMM slots Supports Dual
> Channel DDR2 800/667/533 MHz non-ECC, un-buffered memory (Max 4GB)",
> that is not as cheap as newer stuff.  But, I'd be willing to try and get
> some if anyone thinks it would recognize it.
>
> I might just try it either way, so I wouldn't hold it against anyone
> if'n it doesn't recognize it.  Just looking for a little more wisdom
> than I have on this problem.

There seems to be either misinformation or confusion out there abot what
it can actually take, do you know whether it's marked as Narra3, Narra5,
Narra6 anywhere?

DDR2 machines are pretty well into good money after bad territory in my
book.

On 8/8/2023 12:00 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> On 08/08/2023 17:38, sticks wrote:
>
>> Older desktop with 4 GB of ram installed.  It is a bit confusing on
>> whether or not I can use 4 GB sticks to get to a total of 8 GB ram
>> since I've updated this to 64 bit Win 10 .  Though the board actually
>> has positions for 4 slots, only 2 actual memory slots were used.
>
> the manual says it only support 1GB sized sticks, though if you have 4GB
> from two stick, it actually must support 2GB sticks (not uncommon for
> BIOS updates to improve that)
>
> So I think it'd be a worthwhile shot to fit 4x2GB for 8GB

That's how I took it. Was probably an XP machine to start with. I
think I upgraded it from windows 7.

>> Documentation says you can use twice the amount of ram if you go 64
>> over 32 bit.
>
> Windows 32 bit was only licenced for 4GB (minus about 400MB reserved
> space) so that's probably what it means, 64bit doesn't have that limit.
>
>> The board in question is an Asus Motherboard M2N68-LA Rev:A01
>>
>> <https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/855392/ASUS/M2N68-LA/1>
>>
>> I realize it might not help much, but now for example, it is using 89%
>> of the 4GB installed just writing this.  I guess the question is did
>> Asus limit what they say could be installed because that is only what
>> they tested at the time back then?  Some of my searching does seem to
>> suggest people are running 4 GB sticks in each slot just fine, though
>> they might have a later revision than mine.  One I read said that
>> Windows showed the 8 GB, but the bios didn't recognize it.  I'm OK
>> with that as long as it runs with the desired amount.
>>
>> It does take a not so great ram, "240-pin DDR2 DIMM slots Supports
>> Dual Channel DDR2 800/667/533 MHz non-ECC, un-buffered memory (Max
>> 4GB)", that is not as cheap as newer stuff.  But, I'd be willing to
>> try and get some if anyone thinks it would recognize it.
>>
>> I might just try it either way, so I wouldn't hold it against anyone
>> if'n it doesn't recognize it.  Just looking for a little more wisdom
>> than I have on this problem.
>
> There seems to be either misinformation or confusion out there abot what
> it can actually take, do you know whether it's marked as Narra3, Narra5,
> Narra6 anywhere?

I believe it's a Narra5, I think that's what the rev 5.00 means on the
board. Looks like this one
<https://www.amazon.com/HP-M2n68-Narra5-Asus-Motherboard/dp/B003A902PG>

> DDR2 machines are pretty well into good money after bad territory in my
> book.

Yes, I would agree. But for a computer I use for just viewing repair
videos in the shop, and relatively simple things, I don't have a bunch
into it having bought it used for $50 awhile back. It looks like I can
find the ram for about $26 for two sticks. I kinda want to try it just
to see if it works.

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

> Older desktop with 4 GB of ram installed. It is a bit confusing on
> whether or not I can use 4 GB sticks to get to a total of 8 GB ram since
> I've updated this to 64 bit Win 10 . Though the board actually has
> positions for 4 slots, only 2 actual memory slots were used.
> Documentation says you can use twice the amount of ram if you go 64 over
> 32 bit.
>
> The board in question is an Asus Motherboard M2N68-LA Rev:A01
>
> <https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/855392/ASUS/M2N68-LA/1>
>
> I realize it might not help much, but now for example, it is using 89%
> of the 4GB installed just writing this. I guess the question is did
> Asus limit what they say could be installed because that is only what
> they tested at the time back then? Some of my searching does seem to
> suggest people are running 4 GB sticks in each slot just fine, though
> they might have a later revision than mine. One I read said that
> Windows showed the 8 GB, but the bios didn't recognize it. I'm OK with
> that as long as it runs with the desired amount.
>
> It does take a not so great ram, "240-pin DDR2 DIMM slots Supports Dual
> Channel DDR2 800/667/533 MHz non-ECC, un-buffered memory (Max 4GB)",
> that is not as cheap as newer stuff. But, I'd be willing to try and get
> some if anyone thinks it would recognize it.
>
> I might just try it either way, so I wouldn't hold it against anyone
> if'n it doesn't recognize it. Just looking for a little more wisdom
> than I have on this problem.
>
> sticks

That mobo could has 4 solder pads for 4 possible slot headers, but 2
solder pad sets are unused, or all 4 solder pad sets are all used.

4 solder pads, 2 slots:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jJEAAOSwwXRiXeG~/s-l1600.jpg

4 solder pads, 4 slots:
https://theretroweb.com/motherboard/image/20221119-120823-6378b96ce5472374538434.jpg

The 2nd photo is for the 3.02 revision of the mobo. How much memory can
be addressed depends on how many address lines the mobo supports.
32-bit addressing can get to 4 GB of RAM. 64-bit addressing can get to
much higher, but there are likely restrictions in the BIOS and hardware,
along with restrictions in the version of Windows or whatever OS runs on
that hardware.

Asus doesn't specify submodel or revision numbers on their mobo models,
so what I found for M2N68 was:

https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/m2n68/helpdesk_manual/

The English manual says for memory specs:

Dual-channel memory architecture
4 x 240-pin DIMM sockets support up to 8 GB of ECC and non-ECC
unbuffered 1066/800/667/533/400 Mhz DDR2 memory modules

That means across all 4 slots the maximum memory supported is 8 GB. Do
you have 4 physical slots, or 2 physical slots and 2 solder pad sets
with no slots?

Section 1.7.2, "Memory configurations", says:
You may install 512 MB, 1 GB, and 2 GB unbuffered ECC and non-ECC DDR2
DIMMs into the DIMM sockets.

Well, with 2 GB the maximum addressable per socket, and across 4
sockets, you can get up to 8 GB of RAM (2 GB x 4). That's if you have 4
sockets. If you have only 2 sockets, you still can only go up to a 2 GB
module in each socket, so that would be 4 GB max (2 GB x 2).

You will have to physically inspect the motherboard to see if there are
2 or 4 memory sockets. That max memory module capacity per socket is
2 GB, or 2 GB per socket.

There are other caveats mentions in the manual. When all 4 sockets are
populated, max frequency drops from 1600 to 800 MHz. So you get more
capacity, but slower access.

Different revisions of the mobo may have different supported number of
addressing lines and later BIOS versions, and why folks with later revs
of the mobo can use the 4 GB memory modules. Yours is a A01 revision
which is perhaps the earliest (oldest) version available.

If you are currently at 89% consumption of RAM, why do you need more
RAM? Unused memory is wasted memory. You're at 4 GB RAM now. The
manual (without mentioning revisions of mobo) says you can use 2 GB per
socket. If there are 4 sockets, you could use 2 GB in each to get up to
8 GB total RAM.

The manual you found differs from the one that I found regarding the
maximum size supported per DIMM DDR2 socket. The manual you found is
dated Oct 2007. The one I found is dated July 2008. Neither one
mentions for which revisions of the mobo covered by the manual. You may
have to contact Asus technical support for clarification.

The mobo didn't come with a manual?

On 8/8/23 13:17, this is what sticks wrote:
> Yes, I would agree.  But for a computer I use for just viewing repair videos in the shop, and relatively simple things,
> I don't have a bunch into it having bought it used for $50 awhile back.  It looks like I can find the ram for about $26
> for two sticks.  I kinda want to try it just to see if it works.
Hell if $26 bucks won't break your budget, I'd do it! At least you'd have spare memory for later :-)

Even if your memory is maxed out though, you do know that it will swap to the hard drive, so it keeps on plugging, just
a bit slower.

If you're just, JUST, viewing videos, you can get some very slim versions of Linux. To run youtube or open a video file
and watch it, is something every Linux (I think) will do for you
--
Linux Mint 21.1 Cinnamon 5.6.8
Al

On 8/8/2023 1:00 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> On 08/08/2023 17:38, sticks wrote:
>
>> Older desktop with 4 GB of ram installed.  It is a bit confusing on whether or not I can use 4 GB sticks to get to a total of 8 GB ram since I've updated this to 64 bit Win 10 .  Though the board actually has positions for 4 slots, only 2 actual memory slots were used.
>
> the manual says it only support 1GB sized sticks, though if you have 4GB from two stick, it actually must support 2GB sticks (not uncommon for BIOS updates to improve that)
>
> So I think it'd be a worthwhile shot to fit 4x2GB for 8GB
>
>> Documentation says you can use twice the amount of ram if you go 64 over 32 bit.
>
> Windows 32 bit was only licenced for 4GB (minus about 400MB reserved space) so that's probably what it means, 64bit doesn't have that limit.
>
>> The board in question is an Asus Motherboard M2N68-LA Rev:A01
>>
>> <https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/855392/ASUS/M2N68-LA/1>
>>
>> I realize it might not help much, but now for example, it is using 89% of the 4GB installed just writing this.  I guess the question is did Asus limit what they say could be installed because that is only what they tested at the time back then?  Some of my searching does seem to suggest people are running 4 GB sticks in each slot just fine, though they might have a later revision than mine.  One I read said that Windows showed the 8 GB, but the bios didn't recognize it.  I'm OK with that as long as it runs with the desired amount.
>>
>> It does take a not so great ram, "240-pin DDR2 DIMM slots Supports Dual Channel DDR2 800/667/533 MHz non-ECC, un-buffered memory (Max 4GB)", that is not as cheap as newer stuff.  But, I'd be willing to try and get some if anyone thinks it would recognize it.
>>
>> I might just try it either way, so I wouldn't hold it against anyone if'n it doesn't recognize it.  Just looking for a little more wisdom than I have on this problem.
>
> There seems to be either misinformation or confusion out there abot what it can actually take, do you know whether it's marked as Narra3, Narra5, Narra6 anywhere?
>
> DDR2 machines are pretty well into good money after bad territory in my book.
>

The Narra6 motherboard has four DDR2 pads in the layout, and only
two DIMM slots are populated. That's how this gets a 2x2GB max config.

Manufacturers Model: Narra6-GL6 612501-001
Sold with AMD Sempron 140 2.7GHz CPU + Fan and I/O Plate
CPU type Socket AM3
NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 Chipset

( https://www.amazon.ca/HP-Narra6-GL6-612501-001-Motherboard-Sempron/dp/B00PDBU67I )

The Narra5 similarly has only two DIMM slots installed. Pegatron is the contract
manufacturing arm of Asus corporation (makes boards for HP etc).

( https://www.amazon.ca/HP-Narra5-GL6-513426-001-Pegatron-Motherboard/dp/B003A902PG )

The Narra3 has four slots (no picture).

( https://www.memorystock.com/memory/ASUSM2N68LANARRA3GL8EMotherboard.html )

An HP thread, offers this for Narra3.

Dual channel memory architecture

Four 240-pin DDR2 DIMM sockets
Supported DIMM types:
PC2-5300 (667 MHz)
PC2-6400 (800 MHz) <=== if the BIOS wants, it can tone this down...
Non-ECC memory only, unbuffered
supports 2GB DDR2 DIMMs
Supports up to 8 GB on 64 bit PCs

Picture of Narra 3, showing four DIMM slots. (Likely Narra3-GL8E)

( https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Pavilion-M2N68-NARRA3-462798-001-459164-001/dp/B00FJ1DZMU )

As far as I know, this model has RAM off the CPU. That means no janky NVidia chipset
RAM support is involved (a good thing). Some of the gamer chipsets (probably Intel side),
were pretty bad on RAM stability.

I tried both Google and Bing searches, and I'm being denied a block diagram.
My search results were reduced to two pages. I've been "shown the door" so to speak.

*******

Since I'm not allowed to search, I can only use my own memory. There is a bit
of a bus loading effect. Not so noticeable on Intel DDR2, but with AMD, the
pad drivers were only 8mA when they could have been 16mA to good advantage.

If the RAM throws errors, you can down-clock (DDR2-800 to DDR2-667).

The HP BIOS can do this automatically, and with HP, there will be no RAM
menu to make adjustments. Either the HP BIOS works, or, it does not.

To pre-test (characterize the system), you take your current two sticks, and put them
on the same channel. Measure the bandwidth in dual channel mode
(how you have it now), first. Then change the config so the two
sticks are on the same channel (this requires moving only one of the sticks).

Move the stick, with all power removed from the PC.

The loading compensation should have to take place, in two-stick-single-channel mode.
You can then use CPUZ and vet what happened, as well as using, say, memtest,
to get a graphic output of the memory bandwidth. There is a bandwidth indicator in the memtest screen.

By watching the behavior while switching from dual channel to single channel,
you have some idea what the BIOS will do with 4x2GB.

Some of the earlier AMD processors, weren't that flexible on RAM, and only
ran in dual channel mode. Without search, I cannot create a map for anyone at
the moment.

Some of the AMDs were expensive in that era, which is why I avoided them.
(S754, S939).

As for horsepower, if it is just a Sempron, I would not bother. A Phenom
would give more cores, and Win10 would probably smile kindly on extra cores.
It would punish a Sempron owner, that's for sure. SSD or no SSD.

On my DDR2 system, I went through three sets of sticks. The Kingston CAS6,
sucked donkey balls and the chips ran hot. Those eventually failed. I got
lucky, and there was a set of four CAS5 enthusiast sticks at the
local computer store. But the motherboard eventually croaked, so
that took all the joy out of finding such nice RAM.

And DDR2 can behave nicely. At DDR2-533 (slow... as... molasses).
But hay, who is complaining. I had a VIA chipset board that ran
DDR2-533, and no complains about RAM errors on that thing. If you go
slow enough "it really works". That board took a Core2 dual core (E7500?).
A nice, low power, solution. Not really enough horsepower for a
convincing Win10 session, but it would have worked.

Paul

On 8/8/2023 12:52 PM, Big Al wrote:
> On 8/8/23 13:17, this is what sticks wrote:
>> Yes, I would agree.  But for a computer I use for just viewing repair
>> videos in the shop, and relatively simple things, I don't have a bunch
>> into it having bought it used for $50 awhile back.  It looks like I
>> can find the ram for about $26 for two sticks.  I kinda want to try it
>> just to see if it works.
> Hell if $26 bucks won't break your budget, I'd do it!  At least you'd
> have spare memory for later :-)

I'm gonna do it. Curiosity has taken over. ;-)

> Even if your memory is maxed out though, you do know that it will swap
> to the hard drive, so it keeps on plugging, just a bit slower.

Yeah, I also have a 4 GB USB stick I put in and use ReadyBoost with it.
It might help a little, but nothing major.

> If you're just, JUST, viewing videos, you can get some very slim
> versions of Linux.  To run youtube or open a video file and watch it, is
> something every Linux (I think) will do for you

Yeah, someday I'll have to get around to the whole Linux thing. I've
never seriously looked into it.

On 8/8/2023 2:23 PM, sticks wrote:
> On 8/8/2023 12:52 PM, Big Al wrote:
>> On 8/8/23 13:17, this is what sticks wrote:
>>> Yes, I would agree.  But for a computer I use for just viewing repair videos in the shop, and relatively simple things, I don't have a bunch into it having bought it used for $50 awhile back.  It looks like I can find the ram for about $26 for two sticks.  I kinda want to try it just to see if it works.
>> Hell if $26 bucks won't break your budget, I'd do it!  At least you'd have spare memory for later :-)
>
> I'm gonna do it.  Curiosity has taken over.  ;-)
>
>> Even if your memory is maxed out though, you do know that it will swap to the hard drive, so it keeps on plugging, just a bit slower.
>
> Yeah, I also have a 4 GB USB stick I put in and use ReadyBoost with it. It might help a little, but nothing major.
>
>> If you're just, JUST, viewing videos, you can get some very slim versions of Linux.  To run youtube or open a video file and watch it, is something every Linux (I think) will do for you
>
> Yeah, someday I'll have to get around to the whole Linux thing.  I've never seriously looked into it.
>

The 4GB sticks are a density switch.

That could involve nibble wide chips (x4) rather than
the 16 of the x8 type on a 2GB DDR2 DIMM.

AMD is tolerant of such things. Doing that on my Intel X48
would have been out of the question. The nibble RAM doubles
the load on the CS signal.

Another question, is whether the HP BIOS is ready
for a stick like that. It has to parse the SPD and
set up the hardware for it (map the DIMM).

On my VIA chipset board, it did not have BIOS programming
to set Tsu and Th for denser RAM. Errors galore on bigger
RAM sticks was the result.

Paul

On 8/8/2023 1:33 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 8/8/2023 2:23 PM, sticks wrote:
>> On 8/8/2023 12:52 PM, Big Al wrote:
>>> On 8/8/23 13:17, this is what sticks wrote:
>>>> Yes, I would agree.  But for a computer I use for just viewing repair videos in the shop, and relatively simple things, I don't have a bunch into it having bought it used for $50 awhile back.  It looks like I can find the ram for about $26 for two sticks.  I kinda want to try it just to see if it works.
>>> Hell if $26 bucks won't break your budget, I'd do it!  At least you'd have spare memory for later :-)
>>
>> I'm gonna do it.  Curiosity has taken over.  ;-)
>>
>>> Even if your memory is maxed out though, you do know that it will swap to the hard drive, so it keeps on plugging, just a bit slower.
>>
>> Yeah, I also have a 4 GB USB stick I put in and use ReadyBoost with it. It might help a little, but nothing major.
>>
>>> If you're just, JUST, viewing videos, you can get some very slim versions of Linux.  To run youtube or open a video file and watch it, is something every Linux (I think) will do for you
>>
>> Yeah, someday I'll have to get around to the whole Linux thing.  I've never seriously looked into it.
>>
>
> The 4GB sticks are a density switch.
>
> That could involve nibble wide chips (x4) rather than
> the 16 of the x8 type on a 2GB DDR2 DIMM.
>
> AMD is tolerant of such things. Doing that on my Intel X48
> would have been out of the question. The nibble RAM doubles
> the load on the CS signal.
>
> Another question, is whether the HP BIOS is ready
> for a stick like that. It has to parse the SPD and
> set up the hardware for it (map the DIMM).
>
> On my VIA chipset board, it did not have BIOS programming
> to set Tsu and Th for denser RAM. Errors galore on bigger
> RAM sticks was the result.

It has a limited access bios Core version 6.0 BIOS revision 5.59
(05/20/2010) and has nothing you can do with RAM. I've read of people
trying to update for upgrading processor, and not reporting the best
result. I'll just leave well enough alone. Thanks

I'll let you'll know if it worked or not when I get the sticks.

sticks (heh, that's me and I could use an upgrade too!)

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

> Yeah, I also have a 4 GB USB stick I put in and use ReadyBoost with it.
> It might help a little, but nothing major.
>
>> If you're just, JUST, viewing videos, you can get some very slim
>> versions of Linux.  To run youtube or open a video file and watch it, is
>> something every Linux (I think) will do for you
>
> Yeah, someday I'll have to get around to the whole Linux thing. I've
> never seriously looked into it.

You'll need flash memory for a USB drive. Spinners are not fast enough
hence not compatible with ReadyBoost. After injecting and mounting the
USB drive, right-click on it in File Explorer, and look under the
ReadyBoost tab to see if Windows considers that drive as compatible.

Flash memory is self-destructive: every write damages the NAND junction
due to oxide stress. Eventually the flash drive will catastrophically
fail, plus the redirects for remapped bad blocks increases access time.
Flash memory is no where near as reliable as DRAM, nor is it nowhere as
fast. It was a temporary fix to get users of old hardware to up their
RAM spec to allow using a later version of Windows, but that stop-gap
approach was an unreliable and poor choice. Stay away from ReadyBoost.
Flash memory should only be used for once writes (you write but not
rewrite), and really as archive storage, not active memory substitute.

Then there is the write speed of the Flash drive which most users don't
check. Cheap flash drives are s-l-o-w. Users buy them because they
only look at capacity, not read/write speed. Fast flash drives cost
more. Check the read/write specs (mbps or IOPS) of your flash drives,
if the manufacturer even provides the specs. If the maker doesn't
provide specs, you've got crappy flash drives that sell only on
capacity. When adding a USB drive for ReadyBoost, Windows will test the
performance to ensure the flash drive won't hugely impact performance
(it still gets impacted since flash is slower than DRAM). You might get
disappointed to have Windows report some cheap flash drive is not
compatible with ReadyBoost. Some flash drive makers will note if their
product is ReadyBoost compatible.

Since you leave the USB flash drive constantly plugged in, a USB port
gets consumed on your computer. Because the USB drive is always plugged
in, and for a mobile computer (e.g., laptop) get a shortie model that is
just a stub sticking out to prevent accidental damage from getting
smacked. For a desktop PC, use a USB port on the backside.

My recommendation is to never use ReadyBoost. You'll be disappointed,
especially when the device instantly and catastrophically fails after
LOTS of writes when used as system memory. Get more memory whether than
means adding more on your current mobo (you may lose the old memory to
install larger capacity modules), or get a new mobo. However, besides
the extra cost of larger memory modules (which you are already
considering), you'll end up paying more for a newer CPU, so figure the
new CPU into the cost of replacing the old mobo with a new one. In
addition, you might want to go with faster DDR5 instead of the old DDR2.

I think your old mobo came out around 2007. Might be time for a new
one, but depends on your ability to buy new hardware. According to
Microsoft for Windows 10, 1 GB RAM is needed for 32-bit, and 2 GB for
64-bit, so you are over the minimum requirement. Since you are not yet
consuming all of the system RAM, you have more than you need for how
your use Windows 10. Unused RAM is wasted RAM, but apparently you
already have a reserve. More likely you should investigate everything
that is running on the computer since context switching slows them down.
Cleaning up (paring down) the loaded processes could make your old
computer perform better.

On 8/8/2023 2:05 PM, sticks wrote:
> On 8/8/2023 1:33 PM, Paul wrote:
>> On 8/8/2023 2:23 PM, sticks wrote:
>>> On 8/8/2023 12:52 PM, Big Al wrote:
>>>> On 8/8/23 13:17, this is what sticks wrote:
>>>>> Yes, I would agree.  But for a computer I use for just viewing
>>>>> repair videos in the shop, and relatively simple things, I don't
>>>>> have a bunch into it having bought it used for $50 awhile back.  It
>>>>> looks like I can find the ram for about $26 for two sticks.  I
>>>>> kinda want to try it just to see if it works.
>>>> Hell if $26 bucks won't break your budget, I'd do it!  At least
>>>> you'd have spare memory for later :-)
>>>
>>> I'm gonna do it.  Curiosity has taken over.  ;-)
>>>
>>>> Even if your memory is maxed out though, you do know that it will
>>>> swap to the hard drive, so it keeps on plugging, just a bit slower.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I also have a 4 GB USB stick I put in and use ReadyBoost with
>>> it. It might help a little, but nothing major.
>>>
>>>> If you're just, JUST, viewing videos, you can get some very slim
>>>> versions of Linux.  To run youtube or open a video file and watch
>>>> it, is something every Linux (I think) will do for you
>>>
>>> Yeah, someday I'll have to get around to the whole Linux thing.  I've
>>> never seriously looked into it.
>>>
>>
>> The 4GB sticks are a density switch.
>>
>> That could involve nibble wide chips (x4) rather than
>> the 16 of the x8 type on a 2GB DDR2 DIMM.
>>
>> AMD is tolerant of such things. Doing that on my Intel X48
>> would have been out of the question. The nibble RAM doubles
>> the load on the CS signal.
>>
>> Another question, is whether the HP BIOS is ready
>> for a stick  like that. It has to parse the SPD and
>> set up the hardware for it (map the DIMM).
>>
>> On my VIA chipset board, it did not have BIOS programming
>> to set Tsu and Th for denser RAM. Errors galore on bigger
>> RAM sticks was the result.
>
> It has a limited access bios Core version 6.0 BIOS revision 5.59
> (05/20/2010) and has nothing you can do with RAM.  I've read of people
> trying to update for upgrading processor, and not reporting the best
> result.  I'll just leave well enough alone.  Thanks
>
> I'll let you'll know if it worked or not when I get the sticks.
>
> sticks (heh, that's me and I could use an upgrade too!)

Got the sticks in the mail today, finally. Stuck them in and booted up,
and the bios did recognize and display proper size for both sticks. It
rebooted and just left a blank screen. No windows.

Disappointing, but not totally unexpected. I am going to check around
and see if there is perhaps a motherboard driver upgrade or something,
but I didn't see anything like that before. Any other ideas on how to
get this board to use 8 Gig instead of 4 would be appreciated.

sticks

On 8/21/2023 5:55 PM, sticks wrote:
> On 8/8/2023 2:05 PM, sticks wrote:
>> On 8/8/2023 1:33 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> On 8/8/2023 2:23 PM, sticks wrote:
>>>> On 8/8/2023 12:52 PM, Big Al wrote:
>>>>> On 8/8/23 13:17, this is what sticks wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, I would agree.  But for a computer I use for just viewing repair videos in the shop, and relatively simple things, I don't have a bunch into it having bought it used for $50 awhile back.  It looks like I can find the ram for about $26 for two sticks.  I kinda want to try it just to see if it works.
>>>>> Hell if $26 bucks won't break your budget, I'd do it!  At least you'd have spare memory for later :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm gonna do it.  Curiosity has taken over.  ;-)
>>>>
>>>>> Even if your memory is maxed out though, you do know that it will swap to the hard drive, so it keeps on plugging, just a bit slower.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I also have a 4 GB USB stick I put in and use ReadyBoost with it. It might help a little, but nothing major.
>>>>
>>>>> If you're just, JUST, viewing videos, you can get some very slim versions of Linux.  To run youtube or open a video file and watch it, is something every Linux (I think) will do for you
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, someday I'll have to get around to the whole Linux thing.  I've never seriously looked into it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The 4GB sticks are a density switch.
>>>
>>> That could involve nibble wide chips (x4) rather than
>>> the 16 of the x8 type on a 2GB DDR2 DIMM.
>>>
>>> AMD is tolerant of such things. Doing that on my Intel X48
>>> would have been out of the question. The nibble RAM doubles
>>> the load on the CS signal.
>>>
>>> Another question, is whether the HP BIOS is ready
>>> for a stick  like that. It has to parse the SPD and
>>> set up the hardware for it (map the DIMM).
>>>
>>> On my VIA chipset board, it did not have BIOS programming
>>> to set Tsu and Th for denser RAM. Errors galore on bigger
>>> RAM sticks was the result.
>>
>> It has a limited access bios Core version 6.0 BIOS revision 5.59 (05/20/2010) and has nothing you can do with RAM.  I've read of people trying to update for upgrading processor, and not reporting the best result.  I'll just leave well enough alone.  Thanks
>>
>> I'll let you'll know if it worked or not when I get the sticks.
>>
>> sticks (heh, that's me and I could use an upgrade too!)
>
> Got the sticks in the mail today, finally.  Stuck them in and booted up, and the bios did recognize and display proper size for both sticks.  It rebooted and just left a blank screen.  No windows.
>
> Disappointing, but not totally unexpected.  I am going to check around and see if there is perhaps a motherboard driver upgrade or something, but I didn't see anything like that before.  Any other ideas on how to get this board to use 8 Gig instead of 4 would be appreciated.
>
> sticks

You would start by trying one stick at a time.

*******

But this assumes the AMD processor is not so old, it
will only run in dual channel mode or something. I think they
could run on one stick, the old ones, but the manual tells you
which slot to use if only one stick is available.

Early AMD processors, the developers did not waste their time
doing a "FLEX RAM" implementation, and there were some arcane rules
for RAM installation as a result. Today, AMD and Intel are just as
equal on FLEX RAM, and just about anything works on modern systems.
They've both done their homework now.

If the chips are nibble-wide (instead of the more common 8-bit memory chips),
then the loading on ChipSelect is double the normal value.

The labeling on DIMMs is pretty well useless, in terms of warning
humans about what they bought. If you dump the SPD table, it's
a chore to interpret that and make sense out of what it says.

I have a portable floppy drive (USB to floppy) and an old memtest
diskette, and I can boot some of the older computers with that,
to test the RAM. You don't generally start by attempting to boot
Windows, because sometimes the Registry gets damaged by a nearly
successful startup.

I also have a memtest 6 beta USB flash stick, which is suited
to the AMD system I got about two years ago. No OS required while
that is doing the testing. An older version of memtest, one of
the tests runs a lot slower on AMD than it should.

Paul

On 8/21/2023 5:50 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 8/21/2023 5:55 PM, sticks wrote:
>> On 8/8/2023 2:05 PM, sticks wrote:
>>> On 8/8/2023 1:33 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>> On 8/8/2023 2:23 PM, sticks wrote:
>>>>> On 8/8/2023 12:52 PM, Big Al wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/8/23 13:17, this is what sticks wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, I would agree.  But for a computer I use for just viewing repair videos in the shop, and relatively simple things, I don't have a bunch into it having bought it used for $50 awhile back.  It looks like I can find the ram for about $26 for two sticks.  I kinda want to try it just to see if it works.
>>>>>> Hell if $26 bucks won't break your budget, I'd do it!  At least you'd have spare memory for later :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm gonna do it.  Curiosity has taken over.  ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Even if your memory is maxed out though, you do know that it will swap to the hard drive, so it keeps on plugging, just a bit slower.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I also have a 4 GB USB stick I put in and use ReadyBoost with it. It might help a little, but nothing major.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're just, JUST, viewing videos, you can get some very slim versions of Linux.  To run youtube or open a video file and watch it, is something every Linux (I think) will do for you
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, someday I'll have to get around to the whole Linux thing.  I've never seriously looked into it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The 4GB sticks are a density switch.
>>>>
>>>> That could involve nibble wide chips (x4) rather than
>>>> the 16 of the x8 type on a 2GB DDR2 DIMM.
>>>>
>>>> AMD is tolerant of such things. Doing that on my Intel X48
>>>> would have been out of the question. The nibble RAM doubles
>>>> the load on the CS signal.
>>>>
>>>> Another question, is whether the HP BIOS is ready
>>>> for a stick  like that. It has to parse the SPD and
>>>> set up the hardware for it (map the DIMM).
>>>>
>>>> On my VIA chipset board, it did not have BIOS programming
>>>> to set Tsu and Th for denser RAM. Errors galore on bigger
>>>> RAM sticks was the result.
>>>
>>> It has a limited access bios Core version 6.0 BIOS revision 5.59 (05/20/2010) and has nothing you can do with RAM.  I've read of people trying to update for upgrading processor, and not reporting the best result.  I'll just leave well enough alone.  Thanks
>>>
>>> I'll let you'll know if it worked or not when I get the sticks.
>>>
>>> sticks (heh, that's me and I could use an upgrade too!)
>>
>> Got the sticks in the mail today, finally.  Stuck them in and booted up, and the bios did recognize and display proper size for both sticks.  It rebooted and just left a blank screen.  No windows.
>>
>> Disappointing, but not totally unexpected.  I am going to check around and see if there is perhaps a motherboard driver upgrade or something, but I didn't see anything like that before.  Any other ideas on how to get this board to use 8 Gig instead of 4 would be appreciated.
>>
>> sticks
>
> You would start by trying one stick at a time.

I will try that, after doing the memtest you describe.

>
> *******
>
> But this assumes the AMD processor is not so old, it
> will only run in dual channel mode or something. I think they
> could run on one stick, the old ones, but the manual tells you
> which slot to use if only one stick is available.
>
> Early AMD processors, the developers did not waste their time
> doing a "FLEX RAM" implementation, and there were some arcane rules
> for RAM installation as a result. Today, AMD and Intel are just as
> equal on FLEX RAM, and just about anything works on modern systems.
> They've both done their homework now.
>
> If the chips are nibble-wide (instead of the more common 8-bit memory chips),
> then the loading on ChipSelect is double the normal value.
>
> The labeling on DIMMs is pretty well useless, in terms of warning
> humans about what they bought. If you dump the SPD table, it's
> a chore to interpret that and make sense out of what it says.
>
> I have a portable floppy drive (USB to floppy) and an old memtest
> diskette, and I can boot some of the older computers with that,
> to test the RAM. You don't generally start by attempting to boot
> Windows, because sometimes the Registry gets damaged by a nearly
> successful startup.

When I put the old ram back in it immediately went to windows need
fixing screen with two options: simply restart or go to advanced
options. I chose the restart it seems to be like it was before.

>
> I also have a memtest 6 beta USB flash stick, which is suited
> to the AMD system I got about two years ago. No OS required while
> that is doing the testing. An older version of memtest, one of
> the tests runs a lot slower on AMD than it should.

I have memtest on a bootable CD in the house. I've used it before and
will give it a try just to make sure the memory seems ok.

Thanks for the help!

On 8/21/2023 5:50 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 8/21/2023 5:55 PM, sticks wrote:
>> On 8/8/2023 2:05 PM, sticks wrote:
>>> On 8/8/2023 1:33 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>> On 8/8/2023 2:23 PM, sticks wrote:
>>>>> On 8/8/2023 12:52 PM, Big Al wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/8/23 13:17, this is what sticks wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, I would agree.  But for a computer I use for just viewing repair videos in the shop, and relatively simple things, I don't have a bunch into it having bought it used for $50 awhile back.  It looks like I can find the ram for about $26 for two sticks.  I kinda want to try it just to see if it works.
>>>>>> Hell if $26 bucks won't break your budget, I'd do it!  At least you'd have spare memory for later :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm gonna do it.  Curiosity has taken over.  ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Even if your memory is maxed out though, you do know that it will swap to the hard drive, so it keeps on plugging, just a bit slower.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I also have a 4 GB USB stick I put in and use ReadyBoost with it. It might help a little, but nothing major.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're just, JUST, viewing videos, you can get some very slim versions of Linux.  To run youtube or open a video file and watch it, is something every Linux (I think) will do for you
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, someday I'll have to get around to the whole Linux thing.  I've never seriously looked into it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The 4GB sticks are a density switch.
>>>>
>>>> That could involve nibble wide chips (x4) rather than
>>>> the 16 of the x8 type on a 2GB DDR2 DIMM.
>>>>
>>>> AMD is tolerant of such things. Doing that on my Intel X48
>>>> would have been out of the question. The nibble RAM doubles
>>>> the load on the CS signal.
>>>>
>>>> Another question, is whether the HP BIOS is ready
>>>> for a stick  like that. It has to parse the SPD and
>>>> set up the hardware for it (map the DIMM).
>>>>
>>>> On my VIA chipset board, it did not have BIOS programming
>>>> to set Tsu and Th for denser RAM. Errors galore on bigger
>>>> RAM sticks was the result.
>>>
>>> It has a limited access bios Core version 6.0 BIOS revision 5.59 (05/20/2010) and has nothing you can do with RAM.  I've read of people trying to update for upgrading processor, and not reporting the best result.  I'll just leave well enough alone.  Thanks
>>>
>>> I'll let you'll know if it worked or not when I get the sticks.
>>>
>>> sticks (heh, that's me and I could use an upgrade too!)
>>
>> Got the sticks in the mail today, finally.  Stuck them in and booted up, and the bios did recognize and display proper size for both sticks.  It rebooted and just left a blank screen.  No windows.
>>
>> Disappointing, but not totally unexpected.  I am going to check around and see if there is perhaps a motherboard driver upgrade or something, but I didn't see anything like that before.  Any other ideas on how to get this board to use 8 Gig instead of 4 would be appreciated.
>>
>> sticks
>
> You would start by trying one stick at a time.
>
> *******
>
> But this assumes the AMD processor is not so old, it
> will only run in dual channel mode or something. I think they
> could run on one stick, the old ones, but the manual tells you
> which slot to use if only one stick is available.
>
> Early AMD processors, the developers did not waste their time
> doing a "FLEX RAM" implementation, and there were some arcane rules
> for RAM installation as a result. Today, AMD and Intel are just as
> equal on FLEX RAM, and just about anything works on modern systems.
> They've both done their homework now.
>
> If the chips are nibble-wide (instead of the more common 8-bit memory chips),
> then the loading on ChipSelect is double the normal value.
>
> The labeling on DIMMs is pretty well useless, in terms of warning
> humans about what they bought. If you dump the SPD table, it's
> a chore to interpret that and make sense out of what it says.
>
> I have a portable floppy drive (USB to floppy) and an old memtest
> diskette, and I can boot some of the older computers with that,
> to test the RAM. You don't generally start by attempting to boot
> Windows, because sometimes the Registry gets damaged by a nearly
> successful startup.
>
> I also have a memtest 6 beta USB flash stick, which is suited
> to the AMD system I got about two years ago. No OS required while
> that is doing the testing. An older version of memtest, one of
> the tests runs a lot slower on AMD than it should.

Writing this now with one 4GB stick in. This stick took about 25
minutes for the test to finish.
The second 4GB stick failed the memtest badly. So for now I at least
know that one slot will read a 4GB stick.

Now, I guess I'll stick in a 2 GB stick in the other slot and see if it
will boot up.

On 8/22/2023 11:11 AM, sticks wrote:
> On 8/21/2023 5:50 PM, Paul wrote:
>> On 8/21/2023 5:55 PM, sticks wrote:
>>> On 8/8/2023 2:05 PM, sticks wrote:
>>> Got the sticks in the mail today, finally.  Stuck them in and booted
>>> up, and the bios did recognize and display proper size for both
>>> sticks.  It rebooted and just left a blank screen.  No windows.
>>>
>>> Disappointing, but not totally unexpected.  I am going to check
>>> around and see if there is perhaps a motherboard driver upgrade or
>>> something, but I didn't see anything like that before.  Any other
>>> ideas on how to get this board to use 8 Gig instead of 4 would be
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> sticks
>>
>> You would start by trying one stick at a time.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> But this assumes the AMD processor is not so old, it
>> will only run in dual channel mode or something. I think they
>> could run on one stick, the old ones, but the manual tells you
>> which slot to use if only one stick is available.
>>
>> Early AMD processors, the developers did not waste their time
>> doing a "FLEX RAM" implementation, and there were some arcane rules
>> for RAM installation as a result. Today, AMD and Intel are just as
>> equal on FLEX RAM, and just about anything works on modern systems.
>> They've both done their homework now.
>>
>> If the chips are nibble-wide (instead of the more common 8-bit memory
>> chips),
>> then the loading on ChipSelect is double the normal value.
>>
>> The labeling on DIMMs is pretty well useless, in terms of warning
>> humans about what they bought. If you dump the SPD table, it's
>> a chore to interpret that and make sense out of what it says.
>>
>> I have a portable floppy drive (USB to floppy) and an old memtest
>> diskette, and I can boot some of the older computers with that,
>> to test the RAM. You don't generally start by attempting to boot
>> Windows, because sometimes the Registry gets damaged by a nearly
>> successful startup.
>>
>> I also have a memtest 6 beta USB flash stick, which is suited
>> to the AMD system I got about two years ago. No OS required while
>> that is doing the testing. An older version of memtest, one of
>> the tests runs a lot slower on AMD than it should.
>
> Writing this now with one 4GB stick in.  This stick took about 25
> minutes for the test to finish.
> The second 4GB stick failed the memtest badly.  So for now I at least
> know that one slot will read a 4GB stick.
>
> Now, I guess I'll stick in a 2 GB stick in the other slot and see if it
> will boot up.

I believe I'm actually getting somewhere. Memtested a 2GB stick alone
in the other slot and it was fine. Put them together and just started a
test and it had no immediate errors as before. Exited and the box
booted up Win10 and shows 6 GB of installed ram.

So, now I have to brush up on my Chinese and ask for a replacement stick
I guess. So, in the end, contrary to what the makers say, this board
will recognize and run on more than 2GB sticks in each slot. That was
the what I was trying to find out in the first place.

Thanks for the help!!

On 8/22/2023 11:35 AM, sticks wrote:
>>
>> Writing this now with one 4GB stick in.  This stick took about 25
>> minutes for the test to finish.
>> The second 4GB stick failed the memtest badly.  So for now I at least
>> know that one slot will read a 4GB stick.
>>
>> Now, I guess I'll stick in a 2 GB stick in the other slot and see if
>> it will boot up.
>
> I believe I'm actually getting somewhere.  Memtested a 2GB stick alone
> in the other slot and it was fine.  Put them together and just started a
> test and it had no immediate errors as before.  Exited and the box
> booted up Win10 and shows 6 GB of installed ram.
>
> So, now I have to brush up on my Chinese and ask for a replacement stick
> I guess.  So, in the end, contrary to what the makers say, this board
> will recognize and run on more than 2GB sticks in each slot.  That was
> the what I was trying to find out in the first place.
>
> Thanks for the help!!

Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB
stick. Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I was
like a little kid and just couldn't wait. Bios recognized it and so did
windows. It has really made a difference in how this box works. Where
I used to get the little hiccups when the RAM got over 90% used. Now it
stays down and it is the processor getting to 100% load more often it
seems. Doesn't stutter and the load goes down quickly, though.

I think this is well enough for this box. I don't need to go to an SSD,
or try for a 4 core processor. It runs Win 10 good enough for this
garage system. For a cheap box that I have about $75 into now, I'm
satisfied and will just let it chug on.

Thanks all!

sticks wrote:

> Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB
> stick.  Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I was
> like a little kid and just couldn't wait.  Bios recognized it and so did
> windows.

Good result ..

Was the duff one NOS, or secondhand?

On 9/3/2023 11:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> sticks wrote:
>
>> Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB
>> stick.  Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I was
>> like a little kid and just couldn't wait.  Bios recognized it and so
>> did windows.
>
> Good result ..
>
> Was the duff one NOS, or secondhand?
>

Not sure what you are asking, but I originally bought two on Amazon from
a supplier that shipped from China. They shipped a replacement as soon
as I said one didn't work. All three were new. Looking at the reviews
just now, it appears I was not the only one getting a stick that didn't
work, which they also replaced. Coming from there it took a while, but
the price was good for this type of RAM.

On 9/3/2023 7:12 PM, sticks wrote:
> On 9/3/2023 11:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> sticks wrote:
>>
>>> Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB
>>> stick.  Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I was
>>> like a little kid and just couldn't wait.  Bios recognized it and so
>>> did windows.
>>
>> Good result ..
>>
>> Was the duff one NOS, or secondhand?
>>
>
> Not sure what you are asking, but I originally bought two on Amazon from
> a supplier that shipped from China.  They shipped a replacement as soon
> as I said one didn't work.  All three were new.  Looking at the reviews
> just now, it appears I was not the only one getting a stick that didn't
> work, which they also replaced.  Coming from there it took a while, but
> the price was good for this type of RAM.

I found it and here is the actual link.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0924CQY87

On 04/09/2023 16:48, sticks wrote:

> On 9/3/2023 7:12 PM, sticks wrote:
>> On 9/3/2023 11:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> sticks wrote:
>>>
>>>> Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB
>>>> stick.  Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I
>>>> was like a little kid and just couldn't wait.  Bios recognized it
>>>> and so did windows.
>>>
>>> Good result ..
>>>
>>> Was the duff one NOS, or secondhand?
>>>
>>
>> Not sure what you are asking
>
> I found it and here is the actual link.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0924CQY87

OK, by NOS, i meant new old stock, rather than second hand or "seller
refurbished" whatever that means ...

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:45:58 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>On 04/09/2023 16:48, sticks wrote:
>
>> On 9/3/2023 7:12 PM, sticks wrote:
>>> On 9/3/2023 11:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> sticks wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB
>>>>> stick.  Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I
>>>>> was like a little kid and just couldn't wait.  Bios recognized it
>>>>> and so did windows.
>>>>
>>>> Good result ..
>>>>
>>>> Was the duff one NOS, or secondhand?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure what you are asking
>>
>> I found it and here is the actual link.
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0924CQY87
>
>OK, by NOS, i meant new old stock, rather than second hand or "seller
>refurbished" whatever that means ...

It's almost always best to avoid using abbreviations in newsgroups,
except for very common ones like USA, UK, etc.

I didn't know what you meant by NOS, and I suspect that lots of others
here also didn't

On 9/4/2023 11:48 AM, sticks wrote:
> On 9/3/2023 7:12 PM, sticks wrote:
>> On 9/3/2023 11:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> sticks wrote:
>>>
>>>> Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB stick.  Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I was like a little kid and just couldn't wait.  Bios recognized it and so did windows.
>>>
>>> Good result ..
>>>
>>> Was the duff one NOS, or secondhand?
>>>
>>
>> Not sure what you are asking, but I originally bought two on Amazon from a supplier that shipped from China.  They shipped a replacement as soon as I said one didn't work.  All three were new.  Looking at the reviews just now, it appears I was not the only one getting a stick that didn't work, which they also replaced.  Coming from there it took a while, but the price was good for this type of RAM.
>
> I found it and here is the actual link.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0924CQY87

Ouch.

That's nibble-wide RAM, single sided, (16) x4.

That style of memory is supposed to include a Disclaimer on
the web page, about marginal compatibility. The sellers at one
time, they copied that info onto their web page -- this is
to reduce customer returns by people who didn't know.

The way that particular web page is crafted, it is crafted
as a "blame the customer" web page. Great. Traditional, even.
Now, who does not enjoy grinding customers into the dirt ? :-/

If I had bought that memory, I would do:

memtest

Prime95 Torture Test

and see whether it was a good deal for me or not.

I would want at least four hours of Prime95, error free, as an acceptance test.
You can run it for longer (like overnight), if you want. It also
doubles as a "CPU cooler test", as it should make the CPU hot.
You would have to watch that, on modern stuff like Ken Blakes
computer, and keep an eye on your CPU temperature while it runs.
I have a nice utility from AMD, for my AMD CPU for that purpose.
Modern computers turbo to 228 watts for example.

https://www.mersenne.org/download/

If, at runtime, the tool says "Join GIMPS", the answer is "No, just testing".
The Torture Test is intended to prove computer integrity, before
doing any long-term search for Mersenne Prime Numbers. There is a
cash reward for finding a prime number. At the forty million digit
level, the chances of finding one now are just about zero. Such numbers
(polynomial coefficients) are useful for crypto and such. The sieve
relies on FFTs (Fast Fourier Transform) as an accelerated technique
that is a lot more efficient than a traditional sieve. Maybe 50x better at it.

Paul

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:45:58 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >On 04/09/2023 16:48, sticks wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/3/2023 7:12 PM, sticks wrote:
> >>> On 9/3/2023 11:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> >>>> sticks wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB
> >>>>> stick.  Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I
> >>>>> was like a little kid and just couldn't wait.  Bios recognized it
> >>>>> and so did windows.
> >>>>
> >>>> Good result ..
> >>>>
> >>>> Was the duff one NOS, or secondhand?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Not sure what you are asking
> >>
> >> I found it and here is the actual link.
> >> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0924CQY87
> >
> >OK, by NOS, i meant new old stock, rather than second hand or "seller
> >refurbished" whatever that means ...
>
>
> It's almost always best to avoid using abbreviations in newsgroups,
> except for very common ones like USA, UK, etc.
>
> I didn't know what you meant by NOS, and I suspect that lots of others
> here also didn't

In this case it isn't unambiguous, but doing a 'define: NOS' in Google
gets you close:

"What is NOS in business" -> "New old stock" ->

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_old_stock>

A search in Wikipedia gives the same result.

On 5 Sep 2023 15:54:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

>Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:45:58 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On 04/09/2023 16:48, sticks wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 9/3/2023 7:12 PM, sticks wrote:
>> >>> On 9/3/2023 11:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> >>>> sticks wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB
>> >>>>> stick.  Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I
>> >>>>> was like a little kid and just couldn't wait.  Bios recognized it
>> >>>>> and so did windows.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Good result ..
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Was the duff one NOS, or secondhand?
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Not sure what you are asking
>> >>
>> >> I found it and here is the actual link.
>> >> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0924CQY87
>> >
>> >OK, by NOS, i meant new old stock, rather than second hand or "seller
>> >refurbished" whatever that means ...
>>
>>
>> It's almost always best to avoid using abbreviations in newsgroups,
>> except for very common ones like USA, UK, etc.
>>
>> I didn't know what you meant by NOS, and I suspect that lots of others
>> here also didn't
>
> In this case it isn't unambiguous, but doing a 'define: NOS' in Google
>gets you close:
>
>"What is NOS in business" -> "New old stock" ->
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_old_stock>
>
> A search in Wikipedia gives the same result.

It's generally true that when I see an unknown abbreviation, a search
will find what it means. I sometimes do that, but rarely.

But as far as I'm concerned, that doesn't matter. My point is simple:
the person who posts should not make extra work for his readers. It's
the writer's responsibility to make what he writes understandable, not
the reader's to have to figure it out.

Ken Blake wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:45:58 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 04/09/2023 16:48, sticks wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/3/2023 7:12 PM, sticks wrote:
>>>> On 9/3/2023 11:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> sticks wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Got the replacement 4GB stick and just stuck it in replacing the 2GB
>>>>>> stick.  Figured I probably should do a memtest on it first, but I
>>>>>> was like a little kid and just couldn't wait.  Bios recognized it
>>>>>> and so did windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good result ..
>>>>>
>>>>> Was the duff one NOS, or secondhand?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what you are asking
>>>
>>> I found it and here is the actual link.
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0924CQY87
>>
>> OK, by NOS, i meant new old stock, rather than second hand or "seller
>> refurbished" whatever that means ...
>
>
> It's almost always best to avoid using abbreviations in newsgroups,
> except for very common ones like USA, UK, etc.
>
> I didn't know what you meant by NOS, and I suspect that lots of others
> here also didn't
>

NOS - Normally not seen often in the pc hardware market. I recognized
the term since it's used in the auto parts market - OEM and 3rd party
resellers that buy excess inventory from manufacturer and OEM's.

Years ago(1990) , I traded a 1953 Buick Special Water Pump[and $200}
sitting on the shelf in a then closed Connecticut garage/gas
station(took three months to find it through a network of gearheads) for
a dusty(hanging on the wall in a hardware store) 1954 Fender Telecaster.
- the hardware store owner had the Buick, I asked what he wanted for
the guitar. We settled on the cash after I notified I had the water
pump. Shipping cost and travel for all parts and the guitar to the
Custom Fender Shop cost ~$700. Most of that cost was to Fender to clean
up, install a few wires, a pot, two new frets and resolder and validate
the authenticity. Still have the guitar.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ