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computers / comp.sys.raspberry-pi / Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

SubjectAuthor
* Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|+- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
| | |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | |   `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
| | |    `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | |     +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
| | |     |+- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | |     |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pidruck
| | |     | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |     |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
| | |     |   +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |     |   |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piRichard Harnden
| | |     |   | +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| | |     |   | |`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
| | |     |   | `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |     |   `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piTauno Voipio
| | |     |    +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |     |    `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| | |     `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |      +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
| | |      |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | |      | `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
| | |      `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
| |  +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| |  |+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  ||+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piPancho
| |  |||+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  ||||`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piPancho
| |  |||| +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  |||| |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  |||| | +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
| |  |||| | |`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  |||| | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  |||| |  `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  |||| `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  |||`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  ||`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piCharlie Gibbs
| |  || `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  ||  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  ||   `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  ||    `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  |`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
| |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |   +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |   +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piCharlie Gibbs
| |   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piComputer Nerd Kev
| +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMrtn
| |+- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
| |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMrtn
| |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piCharlie Gibbs
| `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|  |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|  |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  |   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|  +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|  `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piComputer Nerd Kev
|+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piR.Wieser
||`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
|| `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piR.Wieser
||  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
||   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piR.Wieser
|`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| | +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piCharlie Gibbs
| `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piComputer Nerd Kev
|  +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  |+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|  ||`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  || `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|  |`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pidruck
|   `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|    +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|    |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|    | +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAndy Burns
|    | |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|    | | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
|    | |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|    | |   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
|    | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|    |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|    +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAndy Burns
|    `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pidruck
+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi56g.1173

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Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<5ae5bad225bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:00:25 +0100
Organization: None
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 by: Bob Latham - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:00 UTC

In article <650786bd@news.ausics.net>,
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:

> Using Tar as suggested is one option. If you still want to use raw
> image files where the partitioning is already done for you, then
> what I've done for that is create a blank disk image file of the
> size I want (using dd reading from /dev/zero), then partition that
> and copy over the system files before writing that image to a real
> SD card.

I think I understand the principle there (just), but dear me.
What is dd?
What is /dev/zero is that a drive?

I'd love to do it but don't have anywhere near enough knowledge to do
it?

> I've also had success with simply creating a partition table with
> blank space at the end of an SD card. If you just copy over as much
> data as will fit on the smaller SD card, it should still work if
> the partitions had all ended before the space ran out. Resizing
> the last partition on the existing card should work too (make a
> backup first). But doing the work on a file instead of a real card
> is probably safer and less confusing. Faster too, especially if
> you create it in /tmp so the write operations all happen in RAM,
> provided you have enough.

No idea how to create a partition table. Wouldn't know where to start.

Thanks for trying to help me but you're way above my level.

Cheers,

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<slrnugg2jt.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>

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From: ${send-d...@jusme.com (Ian)
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:29:49 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Wet Socks!
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 by: Ian - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:29 UTC

On 2023-09-17, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> Oh dear. I have zero understanding of that. I'm not going to manage
> this am I?

If you follow the instructions exactly, and it all works (!), you should
be able to manage it. If things are different for your setup (quite
likely, unfortunately), then some understanding will be needed to figure
out how to keep on track...

>> Be sure to do it all from a root shell, not via individual sudo
>> calls btw, some of the commands need to be in the same shell as
>> previous ones, and sudo breaks that.

If you log in to the pi as "pi", then issue commands prefixed with "sudo"
so they run as root (administrator), each command runs in its own "shell",
which terminates when the command completes. This means the effects of
some commands don't persist from one call to another, e.g.:

$ sudo pwd
/home/ian

$ sudo cd /tmp

$ sudo pwd
/home/ian ## pwd not changed!

If you log in as "root", or get a root shell by calling "sudo bash",
things work as expected:

$ sudo bash

# pwd
/home/ian

# cd /tmp

# pwd
/tmp

(Note the convention of using "$" to indicate commands that are executed
as a normal user, and '#' for those executed as root. On sane systems,
this reflects the shell prompt).

--
Ian

"Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<5ae5bedd7fbob@sick-of-spam.invalid>

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:44:36 +0100
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 by: Bob Latham - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:44 UTC

In article
<slrnugg2jt.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
> On 2023-09-17, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> > Oh dear. I have zero understanding of that. I'm not going to
> > manage this am I?

[Snip]

> If you log in to the pi as "pi", then issue commands prefixed with
> "sudo" so they run as root (administrator), each command runs in
> its own "shell", which terminates when the command completes. This
> means the effects of some commands don't persist from one call to
> another, e.g.:

[Snip]

> (Note the convention of using "$" to indicate commands that are
> executed as a normal user, and '#' for those executed as root. On
> sane systems, this reflects the shell prompt).

Ian, fantastic post. Such a lot explained.

Thank you so much.

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<ue94fq$1mbio$9@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:15:38 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:15 UTC

On 17/09/2023 18:11, Mrtn wrote:
> Since the horse already left the stable, you can put all this in the
> afterburner.

What a wonderful mixed metaphor..
I smell a rat.
I feel it in the air.
We must nip it in the bud...
--
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<ue94sn$1mbio$10@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:22:31 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:22 UTC

On 17/09/2023 21:02, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article
> <slrnugegu8.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
> Ian
> <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-09-17, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> I'll have another go tomorrow.
>
>> Good luck!
>
>> Be sure to do it all from a root shell, not via individual sudo
>> calls btw, some of the commands need to be in the same shell as
>> previous ones, and sudo breaks that.
>
> Oh dear. I have zero understanding of that. I'm not going to manage
> this am I?
>
> Bob.
>

Yes you are. One step at a time.

There is a super user account that can do everything. It's called root.
There are two easy ways you can get to 'be root'

One is 'sudo bash', and the other is 'su -'

Both will ask for a password - in the first case it will be yours, in
the second case it will be root's.

Root doesn't come with a password set by default, so the first thing you
need to do is to give it one...

'sudo passwd' will ask for YOUR password, then ask you to type in one
for root, twice. To make sure of whatever.

Then 'su - ' will work, every time.

One of the first things I do is set a root password, because I hate
using sudo when I have a lot of configuration work to do.

--
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<ue9577$1mres$1@dont-email.me>

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From: chr...@mshome.net (Chris Elvidge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:28:02 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Chris Elvidge - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:28 UTC

On 18/09/2023 10:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 17/09/2023 21:02, Bob Latham wrote:
>> In article
>> <slrnugegu8.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
>>
>> Ian
>> <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2023-09-17, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> I'll have another go tomorrow.
>>
>>> Good luck!
>>
>>> Be sure to do it all from a root shell, not via individual sudo
>>> calls btw, some of the commands need to be in the same shell as
>>> previous ones, and sudo breaks that.
>>
>> Oh dear. I have zero understanding of that. I'm not going to manage
>> this am I?
>>
>> Bob.
>>
>
> Yes you are. One step at a time.
>
> There is a super user account that can do everything. It's called root.
> There are two easy ways you can get to 'be root'
>
> One is 'sudo bash', and the other is 'su -'

'sudo -i' always works for me.

>
> Both will ask for a password - in the first case it will be yours, in
> the second case it will be root's.
>
> Root doesn't come with a password set by default, so the first thing you
> need to do is to give it one...
>
> 'sudo passwd' will ask for YOUR password, then ask you to type in one
> for root, twice. To make sure of whatever.
>
> Then 'su - ' will work, every time.
>
> One of the first things I do is set a root password, because I hate
> using sudo when I have a lot of configuration work to do.
>
>

--
Chris Elvidge, England
FIVE DAYS IS NOT TOO LONG TO WAIT FOR A GUN

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:46:23 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:46 UTC

On 17/09/2023 23:54, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> Using the 'apropos' and 'man' commands is the fastest way I know of of
> finding a standard issue Linux program that will do what you need it to
> do and finding out how to use it,

I would argue it is the slowest.

It's like reading the whole workshop manual of your new car to find out
where the button is to open the fuel flap.

One of the worst features of both Unix and Linux has always been
documentation

The first time we got a SUN server equipped with system V unix, and
discovered that LPR had gone, and we have no way to make it print to its
parallel port, was such a nightmare for the company that I drove into
town at lunchtime, and went to the university bookstore and paid £55 for
a book on SUNS unix V, because it had one line of about 300 characters
in it which was 'how you enable printing on a system V Unix parallel port'

Today we have CUPS which hides all the ugliness. Just like we have
window managers to hide all the ugliness of X windows.

These days I never use man at all. If I can't remember the command
syntax I google it and chances are someone else has documented a crib
that does what I need it to do.

Like I ripped a CD onto my server and all the song title filenames came
with underscores instead of spaces.

Try invoking 'apropos spaces' .

But googling 'change underscores to spaces in linux file names' got me
three lines of bash that simply WORKED

The problem is 'man' tells you how the command works in enough detail to
warrant suicide.

It doesn't tell you whether or not the command will, in the end perform
the task you want.

Like my problem was how to get my Pi to look like an ethernet device
when plugged into a host computer, set that interface to a static
address and then issue DHCP data to the host computer.

It is not immediately obvious that 'dnsmasq' has anything to do with
DHCP at all, or that on a Pi you have to add a magic spell to a file in
the boot partition to enable the 'I am really an ethernet device' option.

The great thing about the web is that someone somewhere has most
probably done it all before, and if they haven't, and you have to puzzle
it out, then documenting it yourself is a kind thing to do for the next
poor sucker.

The greatest frustration I had working with Apple OS/X was that no one
documented anything. The attitude was 'reinstall OS/X. If it doesn't
work then it cant be done'

Linux and unix documentation has always been command based rather than
task based. And unless you have someone in your company who reads
through and memorises every single command and its syntax, knowing which
command to use is always the problem before you even get to work out the
syntax.

--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:54:07 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:54 UTC

On 18/09/2023 08:50, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <ue8042$il0u$1@dont-email.me>,
> Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
>> Now you know how to mount a disk, you need to know how to find
>> Linux commands that can help you do what you want to do with the
>> RPi. For the rest of this info to work, you need to know how to
>> login as the default user AND how to log in as root:
>
>> 1 the 'man name' command shows you a page (which can be very long)
>> that tells you what 'name' does and how to use it, Name can be
>> anything from a command to a Linux system call or function.
>
>> 2 the "apropos 'text' command shows you a list of commands whose
>> manual pages have 'text' in their first line of their manual
>> pages.
>
>> 3 Using the 'apropos' and 'man' commands is the fastest way I know
>> of of finding a standard issue Linux program that will do what
>> you need it to do and finding out how to use it,
>
>> 4 If you like reading books rather than screens, consider getting a
>> copy of "UNIX in a Nutshell" or "Linux in a Nutshell" - both are
>> concise references to the way UNIX/Linux works and how to use it.
>
>> There's also "Unix Systems Programming for SVR4" which, although
>> quite old now, is still a useful guide to writing programs and
>> applications in C.
>
> Thank you for that information. Scary stuff. I've done what I've done
> so far by googling for answers and a little experimenting. I'm
> neither clever nor an academic.
>
> I wanted to learn how to write code for tcpip comms for another
> platform, I was advised to get a book called "Unix Network
> Programming". It's a thick book and cost a lot of money. I got to
> about page 3 before I was out of my depth and beyond rescue. That's
> why I have not got any linux books.
>

LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy, got
as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner of the
room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'

I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far the
quickest way, or asking here.

In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP client
for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a dozen books
will teach you.

Just keep muddling along and be grateful that these days you can buy a
fully operational multi user multitasking computer that will run a full
linux distro for £15 when back in the day it was nearer £15,000...

--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Bob Latham - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:04 UTC

In article <ue94sn$1mbio$10@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Yes you are. One step at a time.

> There is a super user account that can do everything. It's called
> root. There are two easy ways you can get to 'be root'

> One is 'sudo bash', and the other is 'su -'

> Both will ask for a password - in the first case it will be yours,
> in the second case it will be root's.

> Root doesn't come with a password set by default, so the first
> thing you need to do is to give it one...

> 'sudo passwd' will ask for YOUR password, then ask you to type in
> one for root, twice. To make sure of whatever.

> Then 'su - ' will work, every time.

> One of the first things I do is set a root password, because I hate
> using sudo when I have a lot of configuration work to do.

Brilliant and helpful post. I'm doing well today. So many good
teachers generous with their time.

Thanks.

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Pancho - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:05 UTC

On 18/09/2023 10:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>
> LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
> Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy, got
> as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner of the
> room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'
>
> I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far the
> quickest way, or asking here.
>
> In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP client
> for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a dozen books
> will teach you.
>
> Just keep muddling along and be grateful that these days you can buy a
> fully operational multi user multitasking computer that will run a full
> linux distro for £15 when back in the day it was nearer £15,000...
>

It was never £15,000. Back in 1992 a reasonable PC cost about £2000.

Prior to Linux, late 80s, Xenix ran impressively on a 386. The writing
was on the wall for minis.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
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Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:06:48 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:06 UTC

On 18/09/2023 09:00, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <650786bd@news.ausics.net>,
> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Using Tar as suggested is one option. If you still want to use raw
>> image files where the partitioning is already done for you, then
>> what I've done for that is create a blank disk image file of the
>> size I want (using dd reading from /dev/zero), then partition that
>> and copy over the system files before writing that image to a real
>> SD card.
>
> I think I understand the principle there (just), but dear me.
> What is dd?

I think it stands for 'direct disk' Unix was written in the days long
before even a CRT terminal was common and so its commands were
deliberately short.

What it does is ignore the niceties of partitions and files and just
copy a disk sector by sector into a file or vice versa. Conventionally
the files are *.img extensions and, if copied back onto a fresh disk (or
SD card) will recreate not only the files, but the partitions
informations was well (and in the case of Intel machines, the boot
sector as well)

> What is /dev/zero is that a drive?
>

It is a pseudo file, which is infinitely long and contains an infinite
source of binary zeroes.

Whatever you do to it, how ever many characters you read from it, they
will all always be zero.

Unix tried to make everything look like a file, so this is a special
file that looks like a file, acts like a file but contains no data, or
if you prefer an infinite amount of data guaranteed to be 0.

There is another pseudo file called /dev/null, which is an infinite sink
of data. A write only file. If you have a program that insists on
chattering output to you that yo really don't care about you can
'redirect' its output to /dev/null

If only such a thing existed for my Australian cousin....

....
> No idea how to create a partition table. Wouldn't know where to start.
>
There is a command called 'parted' (PARTitionEDitor) that allows you to
do exactly that.
> Thanks for trying to help me but you're way above my level.
>
No, he is not. Only just above your level. One step and a time

--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:07:04 +0100
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 by: Bob Latham - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:07 UTC

In article <ue9577$1mres$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:

> 'sudo -i' always works for me.

Thanks. I've seen that before in the distant past. Didn't understand
why it might be different to just sudo.

Bob.

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
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Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:22 UTC

On 18/09/2023 11:05, Pancho wrote:
> On 18/09/2023 10:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>
>> LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
>> Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy,
>> got as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner of
>> the room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'
>>
>> I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far the
>> quickest way, or asking here.
>>
>> In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP client
>> for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a dozen
>> books will teach you.
>>
>> Just keep muddling along and be grateful that these days you can buy a
>> fully operational multi user multitasking computer that will run a
>> full linux distro for £15 when back in the day it was nearer £15,000...
>>
>
> It was never £15,000. Back in 1992 a reasonable PC cost about £2000.
>
> Prior to Linux, late 80s, Xenix ran impressively on a 386. The writing
> was on the wall for minis.

Back in the early 80s, you needed a PDP/11 to run Unix. They were about
£15,000
Or a VAX. They were a LOT more. The Internet ran on VAXes to start with.

Xenix was much later . And it wasn't a whole lot of cop. The best 'PC
Unix' was SCO and if you wanted BSD you bought a SUN SPARC, but that
was long after the PDP era.

The fact that a PI Zero is probably a better computer than a VAX was
back in the day is - astonishing.

All it lacks is a hard drive.

--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: chr...@mshome.net (Chris Elvidge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:23:09 +0100
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 by: Chris Elvidge - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:23 UTC

On 18/09/2023 11:07, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <ue9577$1mres$1@dont-email.me>,
> Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
>
>> 'sudo -i' always works for me.
>
> Thanks. I've seen that before in the distant past. Didn't understand
> why it might be different to just sudo.
>
> Bob.
>

'-i' forces a login shell, as in runs target user's .login,
..bash_profile or .profile, and .bashrc
see: 'man sudo'

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT SELL MIRACLE CURES

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: chr...@mshome.net (Chris Elvidge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:34:14 +0100
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 by: Chris Elvidge - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:34 UTC

On 18/09/2023 07:42, R.Wieser wrote:
> Computer Nerd Kev (and others),
>
>> I've also had success with simply creating a partition table
>> with blank space at the end of an SD card.
>
> I've got the same problem as the OP, and also thought of the above as the
> simpelest solution to the problem.
>
> Question : I'm using an OS image (bullseye, bullseye lite) as can be
> downloaded here :
>
> https://www.raspberrypi.com/software/operating-systems/
>
> Is there a possibility to edit it in such a way that it will automatically
> reserve some space (dummy partition or otherwise) at the end of the SD card
> ?
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser
>
>

On a 'new' copy on an SD card, /boot/cmdline.txt finishes with:
init=/usr/lib/raspberrypi-sys-mods/firstboot

If you either remove that bit (not recommended), or edit
/usr/lib/raspberrypi-sys-mods/firstboot to remove (or comment out) the
bulk of the 'do_resize' function (add return just after the definition)
before you start the Pi for the first time, you may be lucky.
You can use (g)parted to resize the partition manually (obviously on
another machine).

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT SELL MIRACLE CURES

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:14:47 +0100
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 by: Bob Latham - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:14 UTC

In article <5ae5599655bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
> Ian
> <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:

> > 1. Clone the SD card you're trying to shrink (using dd,
> > Win32DiskImager or whatever you normally use to read/write SD
> > card images), just in case.

Right. I have got quite a bit further but stumped now. :-)

I typed sudo passwd <ret>

It asked for a new password x2

Never asked for existing password for pi user oddly.

after that su - worked fine.

On stage 3. mkdir /mnt/x
I got: Cannot create directory, file exists.
I presume that is from my attempts yesterday.
How would I remove that file/directory or whatever it is?

Anyway I ignored it and persisted with
mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/x

seemed to work, no error.

Stage 4.
cd /mnt/x worked fine.
tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz .
this went away for more than 18 minutes, I thought it had crashed.
Got 22 lines of this...

tar: ./var/lib/samba/private/msg.sock/ nnnnn socket ignored.

eventually machine came back.

stage 5

cd
umount /mnt/x

seemed to go fine.

stage 6
fdisk /dev/sda2

I ASSUME sda2 is correct ???

P

Lots of text and red writing about 'ext4' signatures...

Then a table very similar to your example but after the line:
Disk identifier: 0x9b19dd1d

I did not get the 3 lines

Device Boot start End sectors size Id Type
/dev...
/dev...

Just didn't happen.

Help !

Thanks.

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: Pancho.J...@proton.me (Pancho)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:17:39 +0100
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 by: Pancho - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:17 UTC

On 18/09/2023 11:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 18/09/2023 11:05, Pancho wrote:
>> On 18/09/2023 10:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
>>> Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy,
>>> got as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner of
>>> the room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'
>>>
>>> I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far the
>>> quickest way, or asking here.
>>>
>>> In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP client
>>> for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a dozen
>>> books will teach you.
>>>
>>> Just keep muddling along and be grateful that these days you can buy
>>> a fully operational multi user multitasking computer that will run a
>>> full linux distro for £15 when back in the day it was nearer £15,000...
>>>
>>
>> It was never £15,000. Back in 1992 a reasonable PC cost about £2000.
>>
>> Prior to Linux, late 80s, Xenix ran impressively on a 386. The writing
>> was on the wall for minis.
>
> Back in the early 80s, you needed a PDP/11 to run Unix. They were about
> £15,000
> Or a VAX. They were a LOT more. The Internet ran on VAXes to start with.
>

OK, I know you meant Unix, but you said Linux.

> Xenix was much later . And it wasn't a whole lot of cop. The best 'PC
> Unix' was SCO  and if you wanted BSD you bought a SUN SPARC, but that
> was long after the PDP era.
>

I can't remember if it was SCO or Xenix, I just remember being impressed
how quick a 386 PC was compared to minis.

> The fact that a PI Zero is probably a better computer than a VAX was
> back in the day is - astonishing.
>

The rPi3 is hugely faster, than a VAX 11/780, probably the rPi Zero too.
Somewhere between 10-20 times as fast running old software, to a 1000
times as fast if you allow for modern software.

Back in the late 1980s, the company I worked for bankrupted themselves
by trying to develop an Ingress SQL database driven multiuser system on
VAX minis. The hardware just wasn't powerful enough. This was around the
time of the MicroVAX 2000. There was discussion of giving every user
their own MicroVax 2000, which sounded OK to me at the time, but in
hindsight I don't know how they would have distributed the central
database access.

Anyway, I left the company, before it went tits up.

> All it lacks is a hard drive.
>
>
Is the SD card, not a hard drive?

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com>
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Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Ian - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:24 UTC

On 2023-09-18, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> On stage 3. mkdir /mnt/x
> I got: Cannot create directory, file exists.
> I presume that is from my attempts yesterday.
> How would I remove that file/directory or whatever it is?

Yes, probably.

rmdir /mnt/x would work (if it's still empty, which it should be),
but that's not necessary.

> Anyway I ignored it and persisted with
> mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/x
>
> seemed to work, no error.
>
> Stage 4.
> cd /mnt/x worked fine.
> tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz .
> this went away for more than 18 minutes, I thought it had crashed.
> Got 22 lines of this...
>
> tar: ./var/lib/samba/private/msg.sock/ nnnnn socket ignored.

That's fine. Sockets are what running processes use to talk to each
other, they live in the filesystem so they can be found. It makes
no sense to "archive" them, so they're ignored by tar.

> eventually machine came back.

Yes, these things take time...

> stage 6
> fdisk /dev/sda2
>
> I ASSUME sda2 is correct ???

It should be /dev/sda for your environment.

/dev/sda is the whole disc. /dev/sda1 is the first partition (a subset
of the whole disc), /dev/sda2 the second partition. fdisk is about
manipulating partitions, so needs to work on the whole disc.
(The partition table is in the first sector/block of the disc)

--
Ian

"Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:27 UTC

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:46:23 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 17/09/2023 23:54, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > Using the 'apropos' and 'man' commands is the fastest way I know of of
> > finding a standard issue Linux program that will do what you need it
> > to do and finding out how to use it,
>
> I would argue it is the slowest.
>
> It's like reading the whole workshop manual of your new car to find out
> where the button is to open the fuel flap.

Indeed the man pages are reference material, on a good system they
are complete and correct and occupy a similar position to the datasheet for
an IC - essential when you need the precise detail.

They are not and never were intended to be tutorials any more than
a complete set of TTL datasheets will tell you which chips to use and how
to connect them in order to construct a clock.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:18 UTC

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:05:38 +0100
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

> Prior to Linux, late 80s, Xenix ran impressively on a 386. The writing
> was on the wall for minis.

I used to run Xenix on a 15MHz 80286 system, it worked fine.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
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Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:59 UTC

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:17:39 +0100
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

> I can't remember if it was SCO or Xenix, I just remember being impressed
> how quick a 386 PC was compared to minis.

SCO bought Xenix from Microsoft, later the product became SCO Unix
after the SysVR4 changes were merged into it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:57 UTC

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:06:48 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 18/09/2023 09:00, Bob Latham wrote:

> > I think I understand the principle there (just), but dear me.
> > What is dd?
>
> I think it stands for 'direct disk' Unix was written in the days long
> before even a CRT terminal was common and so its commands were
> deliberately short.

It's far more obscure than that :)

The dd name was a joke reference to the IBM JCL command DD (data
definition). Originally dd was the universal data format conversion tool
capable of converting between ASCII and EBCDIC, adjusting parity,
converting case, swapping bytes (endian conversion) and dealing with moving
data between block structured devices/files with different block sizes
performing block padding as needs be.

It can still do all of this (check the conv section of man dd)
should you ever find a need to do *any* of it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
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Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Bob Latham - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:10 UTC

In article
<slrnuggcrs.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:

> It should be /dev/sda for your environment.

> /dev/sda is the whole disc. /dev/sda1 is the first partition (a
> subset of the whole disc), /dev/sda2 the second partition. fdisk is
> about manipulating partitions, so needs to work on the whole disc.
> (The partition table is in the first sector/block of the disc)

Okay thanks Ian.

I've now got passed stage 10 and looking at 11.

Lots of questions now...

Do I need to create a script from your text or can I just copy and
paste line by line?

How do I change where to put the new image?

Any suggestions where to put it?

Can I just copy out the image using samba with something I
understand. :-)

How do I delete the tarfile and where is it?

Why did we use a tarfile, was it just to reduce the storage size?

Cheers,

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 13:23:31 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:23 UTC

On 18/09/2023 12:14, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <5ae5599655bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
> Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article
>> <slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
>> Ian
>> <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
>
>>> 1. Clone the SD card you're trying to shrink (using dd,
>>> Win32DiskImager or whatever you normally use to read/write SD
>>> card images), just in case.
>
> Right. I have got quite a bit further but stumped now. :-)
>
> I typed sudo passwd <ret>
>
> It asked for a new password x2
>
> Never asked for existing password for pi user oddly.
>

Sudo sorta remembers you for a time. Very confusing. I dont remember it
douing that tears ago..

> after that su - worked fine.
>
>
> On stage 3. mkdir /mnt/x
> I got: Cannot create directory, file exists.
> I presume that is from my attempts yesterday.
> How would I remove that file/directory or whatever it is?
>
rmdir /mnt/x

> Anyway I ignored it and persisted with
> mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/x
>
> seemed to work, no error.
>
> Stage 4.
> cd /mnt/x worked fine.
> tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz .
> this went away for more than 18 minutes, I thought it had crashed.

next time use cvzf to get it to tell you what its doing.

> Got 22 lines of this...
>
> tar: ./var/lib/samba/private/msg.sock/ nnnnn socket ignored.
>
I wonder why id did that? patently that is not something worth backing
up, but nevertheless...

> eventually machine came back.
>
> stage 5
>
> cd
> umount /mnt/x
>
> seemed to go fine.
>
looks OK

>
> stage 6
> fdisk /dev/sda2

>
> I ASSUME sda2 is correct ???
>
No. partititons are applied to the WHOLE disk which is /dev/sda

so fdisk /dev/sda

https://tldp.org/HOWTO/Partition/fdisk_partitioning.html

> P
>
> Lots of text and red writing about 'ext4' signatures...
>
> Then a table very similar to your example but after the line:
> Disk identifier: 0x9b19dd1d
>
> I did not get the 3 lines
>
> Device Boot start End sectors size Id Type
> /dev...
> /dev...
>
> Just didn't happen.
>
> Help !
>

Ok just one misstep, but defiinitely three steps forward

You remind me of just how weird and crappy Unix at the command line
seemed, back when I first had to do stuff with it

>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob.
>

--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 13:25:43 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:25 UTC

On 18/09/2023 12:17, Pancho wrote:
> On 18/09/2023 11:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 18/09/2023 11:05, Pancho wrote:
>>> On 18/09/2023 10:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
>>>> Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy,
>>>> got as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner
>>>> of the room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'
>>>>
>>>> I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far
>>>> the quickest way, or asking here.
>>>>
>>>> In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP
>>>> client for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a
>>>> dozen books will teach you.
>>>>
>>>> Just keep muddling along and be grateful that these days you can buy
>>>> a fully operational multi user multitasking computer that will run a
>>>> full linux distro for £15 when back in the day it was nearer £15,000...
>>>>
>>>
>>> It was never £15,000. Back in 1992 a reasonable PC cost about £2000.
>>>
>>> Prior to Linux, late 80s, Xenix ran impressively on a 386. The
>>> writing was on the wall for minis.
>>
>> Back in the early 80s, you needed a PDP/11 to run Unix. They were
>> about £15,000
>> Or a VAX. They were a LOT more. The Internet ran on VAXes to start with.
>>
>
> OK, I know you meant Unix, but you said Linux.
>
>> Xenix was much later . And it wasn't a whole lot of cop. The best 'PC
>> Unix' was SCO  and if you wanted BSD you bought a SUN SPARC, but that
>> was long after the PDP era.
>>
>
> I can't remember if it was SCO or Xenix, I just remember being impressed
> how quick a 386 PC was compared to minis.
>
>> The fact that a PI Zero is probably a better computer than a VAX was
>> back in the day is - astonishing.
>>
>
> The rPi3 is hugely faster, than a VAX 11/780, probably the rPi Zero too.
> Somewhere between 10-20 times as fast running old software, to a 1000
> times as fast if you allow for modern software.
>
> Back in the late 1980s, the company I worked for bankrupted themselves
> by trying to develop an Ingress SQL database driven multiuser system on
> VAX minis. The hardware just wasn't powerful enough. This was around the
> time of the MicroVAX 2000. There was discussion of giving every user
> their own MicroVax 2000, which sounded OK to me at the time, but in
> hindsight I don't know how they would have distributed the central
> database access.
>
> Anyway, I left the company, before it went tits up.
>
>> All it lacks is a hard drive.
>>
>>
> Is the SD card, not a hard drive?

I'd say it was quite an easy drive, but it isn't really suitable for the
sorts of crap we used to put on an PDP/11. That drive was spinning all
day with half a dozen of us doing stuff on it

--
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

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