On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:01:51 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-11-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> > However IBM published every detail of the PC (and AT) and the
> > market for a cheap IBM workalike was so obvious that it exploded almost
> > instantly and became brutally competitive.
>
> IBM realized their error and tried to reverse it with MicroChannel,
> but it was too late; as with Pandora, the box had been opened and
> couldn't be closed again.
>
> > Notice that IBM no longer play in the market they created,
> > they've retreated to their comfort zone of high support mainframes.
>
> They don't like to play in areas they can't control, and they
> realized they had lost control of the PC.
>
They also tried with Token Ring to get into the PC networking market;
another fail. (more proprietry h/w and worse of all, slower).

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> However IBM published every detail of the PC (and AT) and the
> market for a cheap IBM workalike was so obvious that it exploded almost
> instantly and became brutally competitive. Then the chipsets appeared
> making PC and AT clones really easy (and cheap) to make. The 80386
> delivered the final nail in the coffin for everything else but by then
> there wasn't much left to kill apart from the Apple who took some important
> niches and hung on. After the 80386 the PC design started to take over the
> data centre starting with minis - which by then were mostly unix boxes. The
> BSDs and Linux accelerated that process dramatically (wot no license fee).

a couple years ago there was analysis of IBM revenue ... mainframe
hardware had dropped to couple percent of revenue ... but the mainframe
group was 25 percent of revenue (and 40% of profit, effectively all
software and services).

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

On 2022-11-18, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-11-18 17:26, greymaus wrote:
>> On 2022-11-18, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2022-11-18 09:53, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> On 17 Nov 2022 08:18:39 GMT
>>>> greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> the amiga was doomed because it was fun.
>>>>>
>>>>> The IBMPC had the name IBM on it.
>>>>
>>>> Quite so, but alone that would not have killed the Amiga because it
>>>> was clunky, slow and expensive - which was fine for IBM's market.
>>>>
>>>> However IBM published every detail of the PC (and AT) and the
>>>> market for a cheap IBM workalike was so obvious that it exploded almost
>>>> instantly and became brutally competitive. Then the chipsets appeared
>>>> making PC and AT clones really easy (and cheap) to make. The 80386
>>>> delivered the final nail in the coffin for everything else but by then
>>>> there wasn't much left to kill apart from the Apple who took some important
>>>> niches and hung on.
>>>
>>> And there was an explosion of software, too.
>>>
>>> I bought a PC clone mid 80's because the chaps at the students club at
>>> uni told me that they could provide me with the software I needed, and
>>> everybody, including teachers were using PCs. I would be alone if I got
>>> a Mac, or any other thing. Compatibility was the word.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> From memory, both A500 (amiga) and the early Mac's needed extra memory
>> to do anything serious. Compared to present computers, their memory
>> installed memory was tiny. A lot of the present need is bloat, IMHO.
>
> Well, that PC had 512 KB. It was in the name: Amstrad PC 1512DD.
>

I remember an Amstrad, ran Locoscript, an incredible usefull machine. I
saw them in small garages or workshops, covered in dirt, but any one could
use them. CP/M?

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2022-11-18 21:52, greymaus wrote:
> On 2022-11-18, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2022-11-18 17:26, greymaus wrote:
>>> On 2022-11-18, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-11-18 09:53, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>> On 17 Nov 2022 08:18:39 GMT
>>>>> greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> the amiga was doomed because it was fun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The IBMPC had the name IBM on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Quite so, but alone that would not have killed the Amiga because it
>>>>> was clunky, slow and expensive - which was fine for IBM's market.
>>>>>
>>>>> However IBM published every detail of the PC (and AT) and the
>>>>> market for a cheap IBM workalike was so obvious that it exploded almost
>>>>> instantly and became brutally competitive. Then the chipsets appeared
>>>>> making PC and AT clones really easy (and cheap) to make. The 80386
>>>>> delivered the final nail in the coffin for everything else but by then
>>>>> there wasn't much left to kill apart from the Apple who took some important
>>>>> niches and hung on.
>>>>
>>>> And there was an explosion of software, too.
>>>>
>>>> I bought a PC clone mid 80's because the chaps at the students club at
>>>> uni told me that they could provide me with the software I needed, and
>>>> everybody, including teachers were using PCs. I would be alone if I got
>>>> a Mac, or any other thing. Compatibility was the word.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> From memory, both A500 (amiga) and the early Mac's needed extra memory
>>> to do anything serious. Compared to present computers, their memory
>>> installed memory was tiny. A lot of the present need is bloat, IMHO.
>>
>> Well, that PC had 512 KB. It was in the name: Amstrad PC 1512DD.
>>
>
> I remember an Amstrad, ran Locoscript, an incredible usefull machine. I
> saw them in small garages or workshops, covered in dirt, but any one could
> use them. CP/M?

No, this one had an 8086 (not 8088) and run DOS 3.1 or .2

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> Espon Escape codes; takes me back.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESC/P
> (but most of the links there are dead; I had hoped to link to a list of
> Esc codes)

'Epson FX-80 compatible' was usually advertised.

http://www.lprng.com/RESOURCES/EPSON/epson.htm
suggests it was ESC R and then byte 0 to 12 to set the international charset.

https://files.support.epson.com/pdf/general/escp2ref.pdf
for a 'modern' (1997) list. ESC/P2 was fancier and used on some inkjets,
while ESC/P was for 24 pin dot matrix. That says there's a 9-pin ESC/P,
although the FX-80 isn't listed - possibly it was an earlier subset.

I think the DIP switches typically selected the default charset, and with
the control code you could change it from software.

Theo

On 2022-11-18 22:52, Theo wrote:
> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> Espon Escape codes; takes me back.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESC/P
>> (but most of the links there are dead; I had hoped to link to a list of
>> Esc codes)
>
> 'Epson FX-80 compatible' was usually advertised.
>
> http://www.lprng.com/RESOURCES/EPSON/epson.htm
> suggests it was ESC R and then byte 0 to 12 to set the international charset.
>
> https://files.support.epson.com/pdf/general/escp2ref.pdf
> for a 'modern' (1997) list. ESC/P2 was fancier and used on some inkjets,
> while ESC/P was for 24 pin dot matrix. That says there's a 9-pin ESC/P,
> although the FX-80 isn't listed - possibly it was an earlier subset.
>
> I think the DIP switches typically selected the default charset, and with
> the control code you could change it from software.

There are pin printers sold and used today, so I suppose they still use
that language. Also thermal printers.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-11-18 22:52, Theo wrote:
>> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>> Espon Escape codes; takes me back.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESC/P
>>> (but most of the links there are dead; I had hoped to link to a list of
>>> Esc codes)
>>
>> 'Epson FX-80 compatible' was usually advertised.
>>
>> http://www.lprng.com/RESOURCES/EPSON/epson.htm
>> suggests it was ESC R and then byte 0 to 12 to set the international charset.
>>
>> https://files.support.epson.com/pdf/general/escp2ref.pdf
>> for a 'modern' (1997) list. ESC/P2 was fancier and used on some inkjets,
>> while ESC/P was for 24 pin dot matrix. That says there's a 9-pin ESC/P,
>> although the FX-80 isn't listed - possibly it was an earlier subset.
>>
>> I think the DIP switches typically selected the default charset, and with
>> the control code you could change it from software.
>
> There are pin printers sold and used today, so I suppose they still use
> that language.

I occasionally see them in applications that want carbon-paper copies.
Auto-repair shops seem to be big users.

> Also thermal printers.
>

--
Pete

On 11/15/2022 3:43 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2022-11-15 20:41, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 20:15:05 +0100
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-11-15 19:28, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 17:39:26 GMT
>>
>>>>     We got the 19 inch NCDs - despite the procurement officer
>>>> declaring that we would have them over his dead body - we called our
>>>> fixer and they were delivered to our office the next day *and* he sent
>>>> a memo complaining about the lack of the promised dead body.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I had to google NCD.
>>
>>     I expect they didn't last long past that era.
>
> I saw something similar in 1998, in colour. We also used Windows
> computers with software to work as X terminal, I don't remember the
> name. It's no the tip of my tongue, but doesn't roll.
>
> Memory is the second thing to get lost with age.
>

The three signs of old age are 1) loss of memory... and I cannot recall
the other two... ;-) :-(

--

Charles Richmond

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 11/18/2022 6:03 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2022-11-18 03:25, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 17:00:07 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 20:09:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it was not only the currency symbols, but also some other
>>>>> letters used in Spain.
>>>>
>>>> Which one's you meañ? ;-)
>>>
>>> ¿¡
>>
>> Ah, I forgot those. That sentences with "!" and questions start with.
>
> Yep. And accented vowels. And ª, used on numbers, like 1º or 1ª. Meaning
> "first", female or male. It is the letter 'a' 'o' with an underscore,
> upperscript. Similar, but not the same as '°' used on '°C', meaning
> "degrees".
>
> It is not a problem if the printer supports unicode, but it seems this
> is not universal, or not done on cheap printers.
>
>

Do *not* forget the cedilla (c with a squiggle tail under it) used in
French, Portuguese, etc.

--

Charles Richmond

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 2022-11-19 02:09, Peter Flass wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2022-11-18 22:52, Theo wrote:
>>> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>>> Espon Escape codes; takes me back.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESC/P
>>>> (but most of the links there are dead; I had hoped to link to a list of
>>>> Esc codes)
>>>
>>> 'Epson FX-80 compatible' was usually advertised.
>>>
>>> http://www.lprng.com/RESOURCES/EPSON/epson.htm
>>> suggests it was ESC R and then byte 0 to 12 to set the international charset.
>>>
>>> https://files.support.epson.com/pdf/general/escp2ref.pdf
>>> for a 'modern' (1997) list. ESC/P2 was fancier and used on some inkjets,
>>> while ESC/P was for 24 pin dot matrix. That says there's a 9-pin ESC/P,
>>> although the FX-80 isn't listed - possibly it was an earlier subset.
>>>
>>> I think the DIP switches typically selected the default charset, and with
>>> the control code you could change it from software.
>>
>> There are pin printers sold and used today, so I suppose they still use
>> that language.
>
> I occasionally see them in applications that want carbon-paper copies.
> Auto-repair shops seem to be big users.

Some banks, institutions... there are procedures that require carbon copies.

I wonder what cable they use to connect now. The old centronics cable,
or USB? I see cables that convert from both.

>
>> Also thermal printers.
>>
>
>
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:50:19 +0100
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-11-18 15:43, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:03:58 +0100
> > "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> It is not a problem if the printer supports unicode, but it seems this
> >> is not universal, or not done on cheap printers.
> >
> > Even with unicode support I doubt there's a printer around with
> > *all* the glyphs.
>
> That too.

So I got curious - I have a test file lurking called UTF-8-demo.txt
so I just threw it to the printer (a Kyocera PostScript laser) with
lpr-cups. Overall not bad but not great - a few missing glyphs in the
maths, the combining characters didn't (bad) and a clean miss on Thai,
Amharic, Runes and Braille.

In vim in a urxvt window it's just missing Amharic and Runes which I
could fix if ICBA to figure out what fonts to install for them.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2022-11-19 12:36, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:50:19 +0100
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-11-18 15:43, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:03:58 +0100
>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is not a problem if the printer supports unicode, but it seems this
>>>> is not universal, or not done on cheap printers.
>>>
>>> Even with unicode support I doubt there's a printer around with
>>> *all* the glyphs.
>>
>> That too.
>
> So I got curious - I have a test file lurking called UTF-8-demo.txt
> so I just threw it to the printer (a Kyocera PostScript laser) with
> lpr-cups. Overall not bad but not great - a few missing glyphs in the
> maths, the combining characters didn't (bad) and a clean miss on Thai,
> Amharic, Runes and Braille.

But that's cheating, you are converting text to postscript in the
computer, I understand.

You have to send the text as is to the printer.

>
> In vim in a urxvt window it's just missing Amharic and Runes which I
> could fix if ICBA to figure out what fonts to install for them.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 13:18:02 +0100
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-11-19 12:36, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:50:19 +0100

> > So I got curious - I have a test file lurking called
> > UTF-8-demo.txt so I just threw it to the printer (a Kyocera PostScript
> > laser) with lpr-cups. Overall not bad but not great - a few missing
> > glyphs in the maths, the combining characters didn't (bad) and a clean
> > miss on Thai, Amharic, Runes and Braille.
>
> But that's cheating, you are converting text to postscript in the
> computer, I understand.

This is true.

> You have to send the text as is to the printer.

It doesn't do that, I tried putting the text file onto a USB stick
and plugging it into the printer but the only thing it offered to print was
a PDF left there by the maker of the stick.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2022-11-19 14:25, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 13:18:02 +0100
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-11-19 12:36, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:50:19 +0100
>
>>> So I got curious - I have a test file lurking called
>>> UTF-8-demo.txt so I just threw it to the printer (a Kyocera PostScript
>>> laser) with lpr-cups. Overall not bad but not great - a few missing
>>> glyphs in the maths, the combining characters didn't (bad) and a clean
>>> miss on Thai, Amharic, Runes and Braille.
>>
>> But that's cheating, you are converting text to postscript in the
>> computer, I understand.
>
> This is true.
>
>> You have to send the text as is to the printer.
>
> It doesn't do that, I tried putting the text file onto a USB stick
> and plugging it into the printer but the only thing it offered to print was
> a PDF left there by the maker of the stick.

Right, not all postscript printers can print raw text directly. I think
it was the original hp laserjet that could, because it was going to be
used from MsDOS.

Maybe I can try mine.

cer@Telcontar:~> cat hello
Hello world
cer@Telcontar:~> lpr -o raw hello
cer@Telcontar:~>

It printed correctly :-)

Where did you get that UTF-8-demo.txt file?
My printer is old (HP CP1515n), I very much doubt it will cope.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 15:02:15 +0100
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> Where did you get that UTF-8-demo.txt file?

It originated with Markus Kuhn at Cambridge (dated 2002). I'm not
sure now where I found it (some unicode info site possibly belonging to
the consortium), but you can find it here if you want:

http://www.sohara.org/Misc/UTF-8-demo.txt

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-11-19 14:25, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 13:18:02 +0100
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-11-19 12:36, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:50:19 +0100
>>
>>>> So I got curious - I have a test file lurking called
>>>> UTF-8-demo.txt so I just threw it to the printer (a Kyocera PostScript
>>>> laser) with lpr-cups. Overall not bad but not great - a few missing
>>>> glyphs in the maths, the combining characters didn't (bad) and a clean
>>>> miss on Thai, Amharic, Runes and Braille.
>>>
>>> But that's cheating, you are converting text to postscript in the
>>> computer, I understand.
>>
>> This is true.
>>
>>> You have to send the text as is to the printer.
>>
>> It doesn't do that, I tried putting the text file onto a USB stick
>> and plugging it into the printer but the only thing it offered to print was
>> a PDF left there by the maker of the stick.
>
> Right, not all postscript printers can print raw text directly. I think
> it was the original hp laserjet that could, because it was going to be
> used from MsDOS.
>
> Maybe I can try mine.
>
> cer@Telcontar:~> cat hello
> Hello world
> cer@Telcontar:~> lpr -o raw hello
> cer@Telcontar:~>
>
> It printed correctly :-)
>
> Where did you get that UTF-8-demo.txt file?
> My printer is old (HP CP1515n), I very much doubt it will cope.
>

I’ve never heard of a printer that couldn’t print a plain text file.

--
Pete

On 2022-11-19 15:40, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 15:02:15 +0100
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Where did you get that UTF-8-demo.txt file?
>
> It originated with Markus Kuhn at Cambridge (dated 2002). I'm not
> sure now where I found it (some unicode info site possibly belonging to
> the consortium), but you can find it here if you want:
>
> http://www.sohara.org/Misc/UTF-8-demo.txt
>

I cut a bit of it to another file, not wanting to waste a lot of paper,
and tried: it only printed a single line.

I guess the printer want CR·LF terminated lines.

cer@Telcontar:~/samples> unix2dos -n p p1
unix2dos: converting file p to file p1 in DOS format...
cer@Telcontar:~/samples> file p p1
p: UTF-8 Unicode text
p1: UTF-8 Unicode text, with CRLF line terminators
cer@Telcontar:~/samples>
cer@Telcontar:~/samples> lpr -o raw p1
cer@Telcontar:~/samples>

And it printed garbage, as I expected.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:

> and then from 1984 to 1987 the ibm pc (and clones) starting to
> completely swamp
> http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/total-share.ars/5

Still, would've been nice if some other players had survived, other than
Apple. I did always like Apple's hardware but not their prices or
software. Usually not the owners either.

On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 18:53:25 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 17:15:38 -0000 (UTC), Ben Collver wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-11-15, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>> On 2022-11-15, Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:
>>>> Nice question. Do you mean the me of the present, or me as i was in
>>>> 1989? On the exotic front, i'd consider the MSX2+
>>>>
>>>> https://www.msx.org/wiki/Panasonic_FS-A1WSX
>>>
>>> That was the one, made by several companies, but with the same OS..Nice
>>> keyboard?.. I have one regret, buying a spectrum instead of a C64.
>>> The Amiga was whole generation ahead of the MSX.
>>
>> I like that the MSX had an open specification.
>>
>> An uncle of a friend used an Amiga for video production in the early
>> 90's. The Amiga was definitely ahead. OTOH, the Amiga and MSX game
>> lists are both about 2,000 games long.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MSX_games
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amiga_games
>
>Amazing the Amiga didn't really kick off in the US. From 1985 to may be
>1988 (which was a "generation" or two back then) it blew everything out
>of the water, especially at that price. Like the IBM PC and its clones. And
>the Macintosh only just got color and couldn't even do preemptive
>multitasking.
>
>Amazing the Amiga didn't really caught on in the US.

I had an Amiga then. Most people wanted to know why it didn't run
ms-dos programs. One person tried to tell me if it didn't run ms-dos,
it was illegal. Many claimed, as they saw me using an Amiga computer,
that such machines didn't exist. All in the US.
--
Jim

On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:47:01 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
<admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:01:51 GMT
>Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-11-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>> > However IBM published every detail of the PC (and AT) and the
>> > market for a cheap IBM workalike was so obvious that it exploded almost
>> > instantly and became brutally competitive.
>>
>> IBM realized their error and tried to reverse it with MicroChannel,
>> but it was too late; as with Pandora, the box had been opened and
>> couldn't be closed again.
>>
>> > Notice that IBM no longer play in the market they created,
>> > they've retreated to their comfort zone of high support mainframes.
>>
>> They don't like to play in areas they can't control, and they
>> realized they had lost control of the PC.
>>
>They also tried with Token Ring to get into the PC networking market;
>another fail. (more proprietry h/w and worse of all, slower).

For a very short time my university had Token Ring in the admin
building and the student lab.

More than once, "What is this for ?" and the student unplugs the
cable.
--
Jim

On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 10:31:42 -0600
D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:47:01 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
> <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:01:51 GMT
> >Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-11-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > However IBM published every detail of the PC (and AT) and the
> >> > market for a cheap IBM workalike was so obvious that it exploded almost
> >> > instantly and became brutally competitive.
> >>
> >> IBM realized their error and tried to reverse it with MicroChannel,
> >> but it was too late; as with Pandora, the box had been opened and
> >> couldn't be closed again.
> >>
> >> > Notice that IBM no longer play in the market they created,
> >> > they've retreated to their comfort zone of high support mainframes.
> >>
> >> They don't like to play in areas they can't control, and they
> >> realized they had lost control of the PC.
> >>
> >They also tried with Token Ring to get into the PC networking market;
> >another fail. (more proprietry h/w and worse of all, slower).
>
> For a very short time my university had Token Ring in the admin
> building and the student lab.
>
> More than once, "What is this for ?" and the student unplugs the
> cable.

That was another thing; really clunky connectors (even if it was
hermaphroditic):
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WibILqsOlLg/TERCVsQsw0I/AAAAAAAAAu0/3Keynxh6YMU/s320/tokenring.jpg

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 2022-11-21, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:

> I had an Amiga then. Most people wanted to know why it didn't run
> ms-dos programs.

Because you didn't put a bridge board in it. :-)
I did a lot of MS-DOS development work on my Amiga,
first with a 286 bridge board, later a 386SX bridge board.

> One person tried to tell me if it didn't run ms-dos,
> it was illegal.

Well, "PC" also stands for Politically Correct...

> Many claimed, as they saw me using an Amiga computer,
> that such machines didn't exist. All in the US.

That reminds me of the 1984 lightbulb joke:

Q: How many thought police does it take to change a light bulb?
A: There never was a light bulb.

See my .sig.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On 2022-11-21, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-11-21, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>
>> I had an Amiga then. Most people wanted to know why it didn't run
>> ms-dos programs.
>
> Because you didn't put a bridge board in it. :-)
> I did a lot of MS-DOS development work on my Amiga,
> first with a 286 bridge board, later a 386SX bridge board.
>
>> One person tried to tell me if it didn't run ms-dos,
>> it was illegal.
>
> Well, "PC" also stands for Politically Correct...
>
>> Many claimed, as they saw me using an Amiga computer,
>> that such machines didn't exist. All in the US.
>
> That reminds me of the 1984 lightbulb joke:
>
> Q: How many thought police does it take to change a light bulb?
> A: There never was a light bulb.
>
> See my .sig.
>

I had a bridgeboard for ms.dos. I had decided to get a PC and have it
boot to either Linux or Windows (The first one, I think), so I had that
working, when Xmas week arrived, and a present was required for someone
that I couldn't be bothered to visit, and the enhanced Amiga was sent on
to amuse the people at the party. It came back later with the board
removed, and a cigarette burn where it had been. Never again. The PC was
a quality built machine, that crowd that had cows as an advertisement.

My daughter told me recently that _her_ daughter had asked her to be
absent for the girls Xmas party. Do things ever change?.

Happy thanksgiving to all USAians.

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 10:24:18 -0600, D.J. wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 18:53:25 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
>>
>>Amazing the Amiga didn't really kick off in the US. From 1985 to may be
>>1988 (which was a "generation" or two back then) it blew everything out
>>of the water, especially at that price. Like the IBM PC and its clones. And
>>the Macintosh only just got color and couldn't even do preemptive
>>multitasking.
>>
>>Amazing the Amiga didn't really caught on in the US.
>
> I had an Amiga then. Most people wanted to know why it didn't run
> ms-dos programs. One person tried to tell me if it didn't run ms-dos,
> it was illegal.

Holy sh*t!

> Many claimed, as they saw me using an Amiga computer, that such
> machines didn't exist. All in the US.

They might even have thought you came from outer space. *g*
--
Andreas

On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 19:18:28 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
> On 2022-11-21, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>
>> I had an Amiga then. Most people wanted to know why it didn't run
>> ms-dos programs.
>
> Because you didn't put a bridge board in it. :-)
> I did a lot of MS-DOS development work on my Amiga,
> first with a 286 bridge board, later a 386SX bridge board.

I remember on the Amiga's introduction at Lincoln Center in NYC in 1985
they showed an MS-DOS emulator booted from floppy IIRC towards the end of
the show. Almost like it would had been Steve Jobs almost leaving the
stage and saying: "Oh, one more thing".

This show is available on Youtube (probably elsewhere) and not only Amiga
fans should have watched it.

There are also some rumors that when Andy Warhol digitized Debbie Harry
and did some "art" on the Amiga he was told before not to use the
bucket-fill function of Deluxe Paint, as the program was still alpha and
that function buggy. But he did, and because it was a life show the
producers started shitting bricks. Luckily the program did not crash.

Awesome presentation!
--
Andreas

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