Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> news:3sFzM.519885$AsA.335213@fx18.iad
Sun, 06 Aug 2023 04:37:19 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On Aug 5, 2023 at 3:28:17 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <5vpzM.383381$TCKc.8306@fx13.iad>:
>
> I was very close to right.

Maybe if we're playing horse shoes or using hand grenades; where accuracy
isn't so important.

> He is pretending I did not know what I showed
> him and he mocked me for and clearly did NOT understand.

I'm not pretending anything. You made it very clear you didn't know the
details. I do, though. :) And, I made that very clear, too.

>> FromTheRafters 'knows his stuff' and it seem he doesn't agree with you.
>> As I said before, I know next to nothing about this subject, so cannot
>> make a judgement call. It's only mildly interesting to me as I've got
>> LOADS of free space!
>
> I suppose it is possible Gremlin focused more on his need to attack and
> insult and brag than he did tech info... but either way, he presented
> himself as being ignorant of this information.

I dunno how you think the first part of your reply here even makes sense,
but the rest of it where you claimed I was ignorant of the information is
wrong. Here's proof:

Message-ID: <uaj6pk$1b1kc$1@dont-email.me>
He said that Gremlin was lost on the whole idea of a 'copy' not taking
up storage space ... I said he was not. As far as which Apple
filesystem uses it and when, I couldn't care any less. Copy on write is
well known in the fast storage realm.

***

Message-ID: <uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me>
Snit wrote:
> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy not
taking
> any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.

And FTR replied with this:

You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy' in
the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to actually
be created with the modifications and the two files would then be
different.

I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was discussed
before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest. Fact is, you
can see this happening if you copy a large file to the same and
different volumes and note the difference in time to complete the task.
***

> The more important thing, though, is the tech info, and the video shows
> it clearly. Let me know if you have any questions.

The tech is the most important thing, followed up by who actually knows the
material vs who was trying hard to roll coal on poor David here. It's
obvious which category you fit, Snit!

You can't dismiss what FtR wrote concerning me, and your assumptions, there,
Snit. So sorry :)

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
news:ekHzM.295655$U3w1.287136@fx09.iad Sun, 06 Aug 2023 06:45:30 GMT in
alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On 06/08/2023 05:37, Snit wrote:
>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 3:28:17 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>> <5vpzM.383381$TCKc.8306@fx13.iad>:
> [....]
>>>
>>> Oops! I've missed a video, eh?
>>>
>>> Please will you post again? TIA
>>
>> Sure. Here is the original text:
>>
>> -----
>> A shame you cannot even try to learn from what you read. But this is a
>> good chance to educate you. Here is a video example:
>>
>> https://youtu.be/fd9X6Tg3XwQ
>>
>> Hopefully that helps you.
>>
>> My prediction: you will pretend you already knew this and then jump to
>> some nonsense about how I must have meant from one volume to another or
>> some other nonsense BS to try to protect your ego. I hope you prove me
>> wrong. ------
>>
>> I was very close to right. He is pretending I did not know what I
>> showed him and he mocked me for and clearly did NOT understand.
>>
>>> FromTheRafters 'knows his stuff' and it seem he doesn't agree with
>>> you. As I said before, I know next to nothing about this subject, so
>>> cannot make a judgement call. It's only mildly interesting to me as
>>> I've got LOADS of free space!
>>
>> I suppose it is possible Gremlin focused more on his need to attack and
>> insult and brag than he did tech info... but either way, he presented
>> himself as being ignorant of this information.
>>
>> The more important thing, though, is the tech info, and the video shows
>> it clearly. Let me know if you have any questions.
>
> That video puts everything into perspective!

Snit didn't create it. And, it backs what I already wrote about the subject.
:)

Not what snit tried to roll coal on you over, but what I told you about it.
> THANK YOU, Snit! :-D

LOL!

You do realize that you're thanking him, in public, for a hand job, right?

You asked for FtRs take. You said he knows his stuff. Here's what wrote:
Message-ID: <uaj6pk$1b1kc$1@dont-email.me>
He said that Gremlin was lost on the whole idea of a 'copy' not taking
up storage space ... I said he was not. As far as which Apple
filesystem uses it and when, I couldn't care any less. Copy on write is
well known in the fast storage realm.

***

Message-ID: <uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me>
Snit wrote:
> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy not
taking
> any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.

And FTR replied with this:

You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy' in
the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to actually
be created with the modifications and the two files would then be
different.

I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was discussed
before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest. Fact is, you
can see this happening if you copy a large file to the same and
different volumes and note the difference in time to complete the task.
***

Are you sure you should be thanking Snit for misleading you? The videos he
shared don't even back what he told you, the first time around. You know,
before he had to start making revisions due to my replies about it. He
filled you full of shit, Why are you thanking him for doing that?

> May I suggest that you post it onto the ASC forum thread so that other
> folk may be able understand too? You could do so in response to
> 'etresoft' and ask if he agrees. Thanks if you do.

LOL! Why are you still after that author? They didn't do you any harm.

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> news:GEPzM.444810$SuUf.261935@fx14.iad
Sun, 06 Aug 2023 16:13:26 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> Exactly what I was talking about. Gremlin's need to attack and mock got
> the better of him.

Dude, just because you can roll coal on David with ease, doesn't mean you
can me or others who post here. David respects FtRs tech opinion. And this
is what FtR wrote about you and I concerning this subject.

Message-ID: <uaj6pk$1b1kc$1@dont-email.me>
He said that Gremlin was lost on the whole idea of a 'copy' not taking
up storage space ... I said he was not. As far as which Apple
filesystem uses it and when, I couldn't care any less. Copy on write is
well known in the fast storage realm.

***

Message-ID: <uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me>
Snit wrote:
> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy not
taking
> any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.

And FTR replied with this:

You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy' in
the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to actually
be created with the modifications and the two files would then be
different.

I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was discussed
before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest. Fact is, you
can see this happening if you copy a large file to the same and
different volumes and note the difference in time to complete the task.
***

Let's see you wiggle around that, Snit. Should be a fun read!

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org>
news:7osvcilhqmqsrsqnk3gd89or05k0i87ogc@4ax.com Sun, 06 Aug 2023 19:24:31
GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 07:45:30 +0100, David Brooks
> <David.B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>>On 06/08/2023 05:37, Snit wrote:
>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 3:28:17 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <5vpzM.383381$TCKc.8306@fx13.iad>:
>>[....]
>>>>
>>>> Oops! I've missed a video, eh?
>>>>
>>>> Please will you post again? TIA
>>>
>>> Sure. Here is the original text:
>>>
>>> -----
>>> A shame you cannot even try to learn from what you read. But this is a
>>> good chance to educate you. Here is a video example:
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/fd9X6Tg3XwQ
>>>
>>> Hopefully that helps you.
>>>
>>> My prediction: you will pretend you already knew this and then jump to
>>> some nonsense about how I must have meant from one volume to another
>>> or some other nonsense BS to try to protect your ego. I hope you prove
>>> me wrong. ------
>>>
>>> I was very close to right. He is pretending I did not know what I
>>> showed him and he mocked me for and clearly did NOT understand.
>>>
>>>> FromTheRafters 'knows his stuff' and it seem he doesn't agree with
>>>> you. As I said before, I know next to nothing about this subject, so
>>>> cannot make a judgement call. It's only mildly interesting to me as
>>>> I've got LOADS of free space!
>>>
>>> I suppose it is possible Gremlin focused more on his need to attack
>>> and insult and brag than he did tech info... but either way, he
>>> presented himself as being ignorant of this information.
>>>
>>> The more important thing, though, is the tech info, and the video
>>> shows it clearly. Let me know if you have any questions.
>>
>>That video puts everything into perspective!
>>
>>THANK YOU, Snit! :-D
>>
>>May I suggest that you post it onto the ASC forum thread so that other
>>folk may be able understand too? You could do so in response to
>>'etresoft' and ask if he agrees. Thanks if you do.
>
> David, are you incapable of doing ANYTHING on your own? Why must you
> always beg others to do what you should be able to do?
>
> (I think everyone knows why, at this point, everyone except possibly
> you.)

You just reminded me of another Double standard Snit displays often. He
ignores when David Begs. While incorrectly labeling me a begger for ASKING A
QUESTION about something he(snit) wrote. And I usually have to ask specific
questions because he's so damn vague with his replies to David.
This thread where it derailed with snits awful explanation of cloning is a
great example of what being vague gets him, isn't it? :)

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
news:PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad Sat, 05 Aug 2023 13:52:46 GMT in
alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
>> David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>> news:_rSyM.473125$TPw2.189493@fx17.iad Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:35:38 GMT in
>> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/08/2023 03:23, Gremlin wrote:
>>>> It's always teasing with you when you get called out for doing very
>>>> dishonest shit towards someone else. I don't recall you admitting you
>>>> were trolling me or anyone else previously though. Interesting.
>>>
>>> Please enter the fray on the ASC forum and let the gurus there school
>>> you. If you dare!
>>
>> I know some of the individuals who make use of that forum. Some of them
>> are gurus, many are not.
>
> *WHICH* posting names do you know on the ASC forums, Gremlin?
> Are such folk misusing the forums for malicious purposes ....
> or actually trying to help folk?

They help people, David. I don't think i'll provide you a list of targets to
stalk.

>> More are like Snit than they are like me, if that helps
>> you. I'll play along though, it beats well, you know. What do you think
>> they will be schooling me in?
>
> Honesty? Accuracy?

Do I need to repeat my question in order for you to provide a real answer to
it?
How many times have you had your account posting priviledges removed for
being honest or accurate, there, David?ROFL!

>> I only ask this because you incorrectly thought Snit got one over on
>> me. You were confident, in fact, that he'd done so. Isn't it nice to
>> read from some of the others who post here with technical backgrounds
>> have all backed up what I wrote, while, not supporting - as in telling
>> him that he's wrong - Snit. What do you have to say about that David?
>> It didn't turn out as you expected, eh, old bean.
>
> I'm not yet convinced that Snit *WAS* wrong.

Hmm...
Message-ID: <uaj6pk$1b1kc$1@dont-email.me>
He said that Gremlin was lost on the whole idea of a 'copy' not taking
up storage space ... I said he was not. As far as which Apple
filesystem uses it and when, I couldn't care any less. Copy on write is
well known in the fast storage realm.

***

Message-ID: <uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me>
Snit wrote:
> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy not
taking
> any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.

And FTR replied with this:

You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy' in
the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to actually
be created with the modifications and the two files would then be
different.

I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was discussed
before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest. Fact is, you
can see this happening if you copy a large file to the same and
different volumes and note the difference in time to complete the task.
***
FtR said he was.
Kelly said he was.
SC said he was.
I've said he was.

How many more of us need to repeat that in order for you to comprehend that
snit mislead you? :) Multiple times, openly, mislead you, as he tried to
attack me.

> Please add your thoughts to the thread here:-
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853

That thread has nothing to do with Snit having written bullshit about me and
what he thought I did or didn't know, David.

Bullshit that you are presently still trying to support him in writing.
I don't think you really want me to join that forum and respond to Snits
comments...It wouldn't go over well. He'd try what he does here, and I'd
have to school him, as I do here. As part of the schooling, I'd have to
disclose what I know of his background. Except unlike you when you disclose
mine, I won't have to lie about any of his to make him look worse than he
already does.

The truth fucks him, just as it sets me free; which is why you often *don't
tell the truth* when you write about me. You only write about a past that
was long over and done with, years before I met you. You don't say fuckall
about what I'd been doing since that time when you bring it up, because none
of it's malicious and so, doesn't support your character assasination
attempts on me.

> FWIW, the thread has NO input from me; none at all.

Let's resolve this thread before you ask for another to be worked on. :)

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
news:wZIzM.486443$TPw2.313533@fx17.iad Sun, 06 Aug 2023 08:37:48 GMT in
alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On 06/08/2023 01:38, Paul wrote:
> Thank you for taking time out to help me, Paul. I really do appreciate
> it. :-D

As with the rest of us, he'll regret it in due course.

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away" He
said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin place
you got that train"

David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
news:7kLzM.107475$JG_b.59537@fx39.iad Sun, 06 Aug 2023 11:18:27 GMT in
alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> He simply didn't listen. :-(

I correctly read and understood what Snit wrote, and I responded to it.

FtR has written about this, after you asked for his opinion.
Message-ID: <uaj6pk$1b1kc$1@dont-email.me>
He said that Gremlin was lost on the whole idea of a 'copy' not taking
up storage space ... I said he was not. As far as which Apple
filesystem uses it and when, I couldn't care any less. Copy on write is
well known in the fast storage realm.

***

Message-ID: <uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me>
Snit wrote:
> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy not
taking
> any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.

And FTR replied with this:

You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy' in
the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to actually
be created with the modifications and the two files would then be
different.

I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was discussed
before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest. Fact is, you
can see this happening if you copy a large file to the same and
different volumes and note the difference in time to complete the task.
***

The opinion doesn't support Snit. Is that why you aren't interested in
further discussion? :)

> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.

Actually, I did. You might want to try refreshing your memory while sober,
if you can.

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
news:gc4AM.310541$U3w1.239320@fx09.iad Mon, 07 Aug 2023 11:03:40 GMT in
alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On 06/08/2023 16:36, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
> [....]
>>>> � � � � -----
>>>> � � � � Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>> � � � � file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>> � � � � the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>> � � � � a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>> � � � � being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>> � � � � havent even made yet?
>>>> � � � � -----
>>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>>
>>>> � � � � -----
>>>> � � � � If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>> � � � � should be a complete copy.
>>>> � � � � -----
>>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file
>>>> browser) but
>>>> it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>>
>>>> � � � � -----
>>>> � � � � It can't track differences and
>>>> � � � � just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>> � � � � changes to the original.
>>>> � � � � -----
>>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is incoherent
>>>> nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced file
>>>> changes being
>>>> tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I do not know... but his
>>>> comment is gibberish.
>>>>
>>>> � � � � ----
>>>> � � � � You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>> � � � � in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>> � � � � specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>> � � � � -----
>>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land
>>>> of APFS
>>>> being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new, which it is
>>>> compared
>>>> to other natural file systems to compare it to (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS...
>>>> maybe
>>>> even FAT32/64) he could not understand that, either.
>>>>
>>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and went
>>>> into
>>>> nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>>
>>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>
>>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>
>> This one is a little longer, perhaps better, explainer video.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I7fg930Deg
>
> Hi Rafters :-D
>
> Thank you so much for providing this video. I've now had the chance to
> watch it and gain a modicum of understanding. So much has changed over
> the last 40 years. I've 'found' a missing photograph of my late son,
> Nick, working at our BBC 'B' computer circa 1983/84.
> https://ibb.co/B3Hk0gT
> I learned, along with him, all there was to know about basic computing
> way back then, but I was never, ever, a professional in the craft.
>
> The Internet today has so very much to offer and everything here on my
> iMac works as if by magic. I don't NEED to know HOW it works, just make
> sure that it does! ;-)
>
> I really value the help and advice which you have given me over many
> years. Thanks again. It is very much appreciated.

Hahahahaha. Wahahahahaha.

So now, you know, for an absolute fact that Snit did mislead you. That I do
know what the fuck I'm writing about, and always did. Snit didn't teach me
fuckall; contrary to what he claimed.

Thanks so much, David, for once again showing your true nature. YOu're
praising FtR to the point where it looks like you're trying to give him a
rim job, being super careful not to credit me for anything as you're also
being super careful not to tell Snit that FtR and myself proved he's wrong,
and he did mislead you.

Very shady but, you're very good at being shady. You just aren't good at
hiding it.

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org>
news:sfsvcipulpmp0od7lre4icqi66o7tc1ff4@4ax.com Sun, 06 Aug 2023 19:20:20
GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
> <David.B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>>On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>
>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>> David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>>> news:_rSyM.473125$TPw2.189493@fx17.iad Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:35:38 GMT
>>>>> in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/08/2023 03:23, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>> It's always teasing with you when you get called out for doing
>>>>>>> very dishonest shit towards someone else. I don't recall you
>>>>>>> admitting you were trolling me or anyone else previously though.
>>>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please enter the fray on the ASC forum and let the gurus there
>>>>>> school you. If you dare!
>>>>>
>>>>> I know some of the individuals who make use of that forum. Some of
>>>>> them are gurus, many are not.
>>>>
>>>> *WHICH* posting names do you know on the ASC forums, Gremlin?
>>>> Are such folk misusing the forums for malicious purposes ....
>>>> or actually trying to help folk?
>>>>
>>>>> More are like Snit than they are like me, if that helps
>>>>> you. I'll play along though, it beats well, you know. What do you
>>>>> think they will be schooling me in?
>>>>
>>>> Honesty? Accuracy?
>>>>
>>>>> I only ask this because you incorrectly thought Snit got one over on
>>>>> me. You were confident, in fact, that he'd done so. Isn't it nice to
>>>>> read from some of the others who post here with technical
>>>>> backgrounds have all backed up what I wrote, while, not supporting -
>>>>> as in telling him that he's wrong - Snit. What do you have to say
>>>>> about that David? It didn't turn out as you expected, eh, old bean.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not yet convinced that Snit *WAS* wrong. Please add your thoughts
>>>> to the thread here:- https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853
>>>>
>>>> What posting 'nym will you use?
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, the thread has NO input from me; none at all.
>>>
>>> Gremlin:
>>> -----
>>> So you don't realize he isn't making sense? I'll make this
>>> easy for you. How would a system let you think you copied
>>> a file from point a to point b, but somehow, the copy in
>>> point b is actually just the differences between the
>>> copies, except that there aren't any differences between
>>> them until you make a change to the original or the
>>> duplicate one.
>>> -----
>>> None of this makes sense. Gremlin confused the idea of the COPY, where
>>> a new file is shown in the Finder but, in the background it is the
>>> same data, with what happens when one of those files is opened and
>>> changed.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>> file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>> the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>> a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>> being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>> havent even made yet?
>>> -----
>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>> should be a complete copy.
>>> -----
>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file
>>> browser) but it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> It can't track differences and
>>> just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>> changes to the original.
>>> -----
>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is
>>> incoherent nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced
>>> file changes being tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I do
>>> not know... but his comment is gibberish.
>>>
>>> ----
>>> You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>> in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>> specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>> -----
>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land
>>> of APFS being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new, which
>>> it is compared to other natural file systems to compare it to
>>> (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS... maybe even FAT32/64) he could not understand
>>> that, either.
>>>
>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and went
>>> into nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>
>>He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>
>>Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>
> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing
> you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>
> Snit is wrong. Period.

I actually suspect David knows snit stepped on his own dick here, but, since
Snit attacks me, that is allowed to slide. That's how the David rolls, if
you hadn't of noticed already.

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> news:VISzM.79043$QQFb.66479@fx38.iad Sun,
06 Aug 2023 19:42:45 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On Aug 6, 2023 at 12:20:20 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
> <sfsvcipulpmp0od7lre4icqi66o7tc1ff4@4ax.com>:
>
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>> <David.B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>> David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>>>> news:_rSyM.473125$TPw2.189493@fx17.iad Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:35:38
>>>>>> GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/08/2023 03:23, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>>> It's always teasing with you when you get called out for doing
>>>>>>>> very dishonest shit towards someone else. I don't recall you
>>>>>>>> admitting you were trolling me or anyone else previously though.
>>>>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please enter the fray on the ASC forum and let the gurus there
>>>>>>> school you. If you dare!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know some of the individuals who make use of that forum. Some of
>>>>>> them are gurus, many are not.
>>>>>
>>>>> *WHICH* posting names do you know on the ASC forums, Gremlin?
>>>>> Are such folk misusing the forums for malicious purposes ....
>>>>> or actually trying to help folk?
>>>>>
>>>>>> More are like Snit than they are like me, if that helps
>>>>>> you. I'll play along though, it beats well, you know. What do you
>>>>>> think they will be schooling me in?
>>>>>
>>>>> Honesty? Accuracy?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I only ask this because you incorrectly thought Snit got one over
>>>>>> on me. You were confident, in fact, that he'd done so. Isn't it
>>>>>> nice to read from some of the others who post here with technical
>>>>>> backgrounds have all backed up what I wrote, while, not supporting
>>>>>> - as in telling him that he's wrong - Snit. What do you have to say
>>>>>> about that David? It didn't turn out as you expected, eh, old bean.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not yet convinced that Snit *WAS* wrong. Please add your
>>>>> thoughts to the thread here:-
>>>>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853
>>>>>
>>>>> What posting 'nym will you use?
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, the thread has NO input from me; none at all.
>>>>
>>>> Gremlin:
>>>> -----
>>>> So you don't realize he isn't making sense? I'll make this
>>>> easy for you. How would a system let you think you copied
>>>> a file from point a to point b, but somehow, the copy in
>>>> point b is actually just the differences between the
>>>> copies, except that there aren't any differences between
>>>> them until you make a change to the original or the
>>>> duplicate one.
>>>> -----
>>>> None of this makes sense. Gremlin confused the idea of the COPY,
>>>> where a new file is shown in the Finder but, in the background it is
>>>> the same data, with what happens when one of those files is opened
>>>> and changed.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>> file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>> the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>> a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>> being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>> havent even made yet?
>>>> -----
>>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>> should be a complete copy.
>>>> -----
>>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file
>>>> browser) but it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> It can't track differences and
>>>> just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>> changes to the original.
>>>> -----
>>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is
>>>> incoherent nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced
>>>> file changes being tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I
>>>> do not know... but his comment is gibberish.
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>> in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>> specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>> -----
>>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land
>>>> of APFS being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new, which
>>>> it is compared to other natural file systems to compare it to
>>>> (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS... maybe even FAT32/64) he could not understand
>>>> that, either.
>>>>
>>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and went
>>>> into nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>>
>>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>
>>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>
>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing
>> you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>>
>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>
> I quoted Gremlin.

And like with your floodbot story, you didn't understand what I was writing
about. So you made some assumptions. Which, just like the floodbot story,
were wrong.

>It is not like I was wrong. He still jumped in to attack and insist I was
> wrong about a copied file not being a "complete copy", as he said it.

You *are* wrong, though.

Message-ID: <uaj6pk$1b1kc$1@dont-email.me>
He said that Gremlin was lost on the whole idea of a 'copy' not taking
up storage space ... I said he was not. As far as which Apple
filesystem uses it and when, I couldn't care any less. Copy on write is
well known in the fast storage realm.

***

Message-ID: <uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me>
Snit wrote:
> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy not
taking
> any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.

And FTR replied with this:

You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy' in
the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to actually
be created with the modifications and the two files would then be
different.

I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was discussed
before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest. Fact is, you
can see this happening if you copy a large file to the same and
different volumes and note the difference in time to complete the task.
***

Everyone besides David whos commented have all backed me, not you snit, on
this subject. It's you who's been wrong the entire time! Your efforts to
spin or otherwise get out of it aren't working. Again, NOBODY is supporting
what you claimed!

If i'm the one in the wrong, why is everyone accusing you of being in the
wrong and not me? :) Further, not only aren't they accusing me of being
wrong, they're rightfully writing that I was/am right about this. YOU are
the one in the wrong, Snit!

Steve Carroll <"Steve Carroll"@noSPAM.none>
news:uar4oq$2u04t$1@fretwizzer.eternal-september.org Mon, 07 Aug 2023
16:05:46 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On 2023-08-06, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 6, 2023 at 12:20:20 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
>><sfsvcipulpmp0od7lre4icqi66o7tc1ff4@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>>> <David.B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>> David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>>>>> news:_rSyM.473125$TPw2.189493@fx17.iad Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:35:38
>>>>>>> GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/08/2023 03:23, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> It's always teasing with you when you get called out for doing
>>>>>>>>> very dishonest shit towards someone else. I don't recall you
>>>>>>>>> admitting you were trolling me or anyone else previously though.
>>>>>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please enter the fray on the ASC forum and let the gurus there
>>>>>>>> school you. If you dare!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know some of the individuals who make use of that forum. Some of
>>>>>>> them are gurus, many are not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *WHICH* posting names do you know on the ASC forums, Gremlin?
>>>>>> Are such folk misusing the forums for malicious purposes ....
>>>>>> or actually trying to help folk?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More are like Snit than they are like me, if that helps
>>>>>>> you. I'll play along though, it beats well, you know. What do you
>>>>>>> think they will be schooling me in?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Honesty? Accuracy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I only ask this because you incorrectly thought Snit got one over
>>>>>>> on me. You were confident, in fact, that he'd done so. Isn't it
>>>>>>> nice to read from some of the others who post here with technical
>>>>>>> backgrounds have all backed up what I wrote, while, not supporting
>>>>>>> - as in telling him that he's wrong - Snit. What do you have to
>>>>>>> say about that David? It didn't turn out as you expected, eh,
>>>>>>> old bean.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not yet convinced that Snit *WAS* wrong. Please add your
>>>>>> thoughts to the thread here:-
>>>>>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What posting 'nym will you use?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, the thread has NO input from me; none at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gremlin:
>>>>> -----
>>>>> So you don't realize he isn't making sense? I'll make this
>>>>> easy for you. How would a system let you think you copied
>>>>> a file from point a to point b, but somehow, the copy in
>>>>> point b is actually just the differences between the
>>>>> copies, except that there aren't any differences between
>>>>> them until you make a change to the original or the
>>>>> duplicate one.
>>>>> -----
>>>>> None of this makes sense. Gremlin confused the idea of the COPY,
>>>>> where a new file is shown in the Finder but, in the background it is
>>>>> the same data, with what happens when one of those files is opened
>>>>> and changed.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>>> file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>>> the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>>> a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>>> being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>>> havent even made yet?
>>>>> -----
>>>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>>> should be a complete copy.
>>>>> -----
>>>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file
>>>>> browser) but it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> It can't track differences and
>>>>> just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>>> changes to the original.
>>>>> -----
>>>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is
>>>>> incoherent nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced
>>>>> file changes being tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I
>>>>> do not know... but his comment is gibberish.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----
>>>>> You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>>> in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>>> specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>>> -----
>>>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land
>>>>> of APFS being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new,
>>>>> which it is compared to other natural file systems to compare it to
>>>>> (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS... maybe even FAT32/64) he could not understand
>>>>> that, either.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and
>>>>> went into nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>>>
>>>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>>
>>>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>>
>>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally
>>> BSing you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you
>>> are...
>>>
>>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>>
>> I quoted Gremlin.
>
> I'll quote you making your admission that JD was right about reporting
> (despite your babbling about "marketing"):
>
> "Very much marketing... but with that said, Apple does report free space
> poorly. I can delete gigs of data and it does not change anything. But
> then it changes later."
>
> And here's Gremlin's reply, a logical question given the limited info:
>
> "Are you actually deleting then, or is it being sent to temp storage in
> case you change your mind for a period of time?"
>
> Notably, you then shot back 'the way you often do', with:
>
> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
> understand that they are not just being put in the Trash (or Recycle Bin
> in Windows terms) but that this is being emptied."
>
> You've clearly suggested he's not even a "moderately technical reader".
>
> Equally 'notable', elsewhere you wrote:
>
> "Some of this comes from the new(er) file system where if you have a 10
> GB file and you copy it, in the background it is not really copied. The
> only thing saved in the new file are changes you make. But this means if
> you delete either 10 GB file you do not free 10 GB of space. It makes
> things more efficient but can be confusing when clearing out files to
> make space. Does not explain why things take time though."
>
> Let's "note" what you *didn't* say there, that you felt compelled to
> subsequently add when Gremlin correctly "noted" circumstances for
> copying a file in certain instances, instances that *hadn't* yet been
> determined:
>
> "If I copy file a from location one to location two; it should be a
> complete copy."
>
> And, of course, if one understand the difference between "copy" and
> "Copy-On-Write", as also "noted" below, that statement is factually
> correct in some circumstances (you know, the thing you *hadn't* covered
> yet to make your 'sale').
>
> To that, you subsequently felt compelled to add what I 'noted' above:
> "Assuming the same volume, that is not the case with APFS."
>
> IOW, all this bluster of yours, where you're trying to 'sell' the idea
> that he's not even a "moderately technical reader", is based on a
> timeline context that you're trying to take advantage of to 'make the
> sale'... but people aren't as stupid as you need them to be, they just
> aren't. For some reason, you struggle with this despite how many "show"
> you they aren't.
>
> I suggest you "note" FTR's comment about a language barrier and the use
> of the term "Copy-On-Write" as mentioned by FTR and seen in the video he
> linked to. Why? The best answer to that is to use what you tried to use
> on Gremlin...
>
> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
> understand that" there are technical terms delineating "copy" from
> "Copy-On-Write" (and Redirect-On_Write), a thing that Gremlin appears to
> have delineated... a thing you failed to delineate... as well as failing
> to initially point out you were 'copying' to what you had to
> subsequently add in order to make your 'sales' attempt: "the same
> volume".
>
>> And I showed a video which backs what I was saying.
>
> Same issue, that video "showed" you used the term "copy" when you should
> have used the term "Copy-On-Write" and any "moderately technical reader"
> would agree with that... were he/she "honest and honorable" about
> 'talking tech'. FTR has stated that Gremlin knows about this, so what's
> next for your 'sales pitch'?
>
>> It is not like I was wrong.
>
> You did what you've often done, used laymen terms *as* you tried to
> 'sell' the idea that it's your 'opponent' who isn't a "moderately
> technical reader" and not *you*, Mr. Dishonest Hypocrite.
>
>> He still jumped in to attack and insist I was wrong
>> about a copied file not being a "complete copy", as he said it.
>
> BTW, did you happen to notice when FTR told you that you were "wrong"
> about Gremlin being "lost", he used the phrase " actual new complete
> file"? Words have meaning for a reason and they're even more important
> in 'tech talking', Mr. "moderately technical reader".

Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com>
news:8cUzM.460099$mPI2.342948@fx15.iad Sun, 06 Aug 2023 21:24:20 GMT in
alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On 2023-08-06, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>>>He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>
>>>Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>
>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing
>> you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>>
>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>
> I'm reasonably certain that David knows full well that snit is a whiny
> little poser. As soon as David no longer needs snit, he will throw him
> under the bus, The one caveat is why would David need snit?
> Nobody else seems to.

Snit and I aren't 'friends'; it's for that reason Snit is of use to him. No,
I'm not BSing in the least little bit. It's a known pattern with David
Brooks. He used pcbutts for the same purpose, and contrary to what he claims
now, he did claim pcbutts was a friend, just like he claims snit is, until
pcbutts was of no further use to him.

You can fact check me, by reviewing alt.comp.freeware and alt.comp.virus.
It's two places where pcbutts was doing his thing, and David was supporting
him, just like he supports snit here.

How many posts in this thread alone has David tried to back snit, despite
the fact, Snit was wrong concerning the subject? Not only tried to back him,
but continued to attack me as he did so.

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> news:uap2sp$2fs5n$1@dont-email.me Sun, 06 Aug
2023 21:21:29 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
> There's a little more info here.
>
> https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/43043-using-apfs-on-hdds-and-why-you-migh
> t-not-want-to/

You're a few days late to the party with solid advice, Paul. I already
brought this up when Snit initiated the conversation.

Here's a bit more of what you missed. I'm just bringing you up to speed, so
you don't get conned or otherwise, Snookered as David so easily did by Snit:
Message-ID: <uaj6pk$1b1kc$1@dont-email.me>
He said that Gremlin was lost on the whole idea of a 'copy' not taking
up storage space ... I said he was not. As far as which Apple
filesystem uses it and when, I couldn't care any less. Copy on write is
well known in the fast storage realm.

***

Message-ID: <uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me>
Snit wrote:
> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy not
taking
> any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.

And FTR replied with this:

You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy' in
the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to actually
be created with the modifications and the two files would then be
different.

I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was discussed
before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest. Fact is, you
can see this happening if you copy a large file to the same and
different volumes and note the difference in time to complete the task.
***

Snit as you can see, likes to tell porkies and revise them as he goes.
Consider yourself fairly warned. :)

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> news:uam3kp$1r57p$1@dont-email.me
Sat, 05 Aug 2023 18:15:45 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> David Brooks wrote on 8/5/2023 :
>>>> FromTheRafters 'knows his stuff' and it seem he doesn't agree with
>>>> you. As I said before, I know next to nothing about this subject, so
>>>> cannot make a judgement call. It's only mildly interesting to me as
>>>> I've got LOADS of free space!
>>>
>>> I think that there is a language barrier. He most likely thinks in
>>> code (direct hardware access) so a copy literally means a copy. In a
>>> userland GUI menu or drag 'n' drop functionality (or perhaps even a
>>> CLI command) it is a request that underlying file and disk management
>>> system software handles.
>>>
>>> In this case someone with editing permissions opens a file for editing
>>> and instead gets a clone (not a copy) in a storage area, not being
>>> part of the file storage area, as a 'working copy' to view. If an edit
>>> is made (the point I think he was making) only then will the
>>> difference data be something to store in a way similar to some
>>> incremental backup strategies; a 'delta' is formed with the
>>> accumulated change data.
>>
>> Is that not, more-or-less, what Snit said on the ASC forum?
>
> Perhaps what he meant to say. :)

If he had a clue about the subject, sure. :)

> No, and I object to the 'up to' reference -- I am simply uninterested.

Damn. Anyone left that he hasn't asked to join the ASC forum?

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

Steve Carroll <"Steve Carroll"@noSPAM.none>
news:uar4oq$2u04t$1@fretwizzer.eternal-september.org Mon, 07 Aug 2023
16:05:46 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On 2023-08-06, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 6, 2023 at 12:20:20 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
>><sfsvcipulpmp0od7lre4icqi66o7tc1ff4@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>>> <David.B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>>
>>>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>>
>>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally
>>> BSing you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you
>>> are...
>>>
>>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>>
>> I quoted Gremlin.
>
> I'll quote you making your admission that JD was right about reporting
> (despite your babbling about "marketing"):
>
> "Very much marketing... but with that said, Apple does report free space
> poorly. I can delete gigs of data and it does not change anything. But
> then it changes later."
>
> And here's Gremlin's reply, a logical question given the limited info:
>
> "Are you actually deleting then, or is it being sent to temp storage in
> case you change your mind for a period of time?"
>
> Notably, you then shot back 'the way you often do', with:
>
> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
> understand that they are not just being put in the Trash (or Recycle Bin
> in Windows terms) but that this is being emptied."
>
> You've clearly suggested he's not even a "moderately technical reader".
>
> Equally 'notable', elsewhere you wrote:
>
> "Some of this comes from the new(er) file system where if you have a 10
> GB file and you copy it, in the background it is not really copied. The
> only thing saved in the new file are changes you make. But this means if
> you delete either 10 GB file you do not free 10 GB of space. It makes
> things more efficient but can be confusing when clearing out files to
> make space. Does not explain why things take time though."
>
> Let's "note" what you *didn't* say there, that you felt compelled to
> subsequently add when Gremlin correctly "noted" circumstances for
> copying a file in certain instances, instances that *hadn't* yet been
> determined:
>
> "If I copy file a from location one to location two; it should be a
> complete copy."
>
> And, of course, if one understand the difference between "copy" and
> "Copy-On-Write", as also "noted" below, that statement is factually
> correct in some circumstances (you know, the thing you *hadn't* covered
> yet to make your 'sale').
>
> To that, you subsequently felt compelled to add what I 'noted' above:
> "Assuming the same volume, that is not the case with APFS."
>
> IOW, all this bluster of yours, where you're trying to 'sell' the idea
> that he's not even a "moderately technical reader", is based on a
> timeline context that you're trying to take advantage of to 'make the
> sale'... but people aren't as stupid as you need them to be, they just
> aren't. For some reason, you struggle with this despite how many "show"
> you they aren't.
>
> I suggest you "note" FTR's comment about a language barrier and the use
> of the term "Copy-On-Write" as mentioned by FTR and seen in the video he
> linked to. Why? The best answer to that is to use what you tried to use
> on Gremlin...
>
> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
> understand that" there are technical terms delineating "copy" from
> "Copy-On-Write" (and Redirect-On_Write), a thing that Gremlin appears to
> have delineated... a thing you failed to delineate... as well as failing
> to initially point out you were 'copying' to what you had to
> subsequently add in order to make your 'sales' attempt: "the same
> volume".
>
>> And I showed a video which backs what I was saying.
>
> Same issue, that video "showed" you used the term "copy" when you should
> have used the term "Copy-On-Write" and any "moderately technical reader"
> would agree with that... were he/she "honest and honorable" about
> 'talking tech'. FTR has stated that Gremlin knows about this, so what's
> next for your 'sales pitch'?
>
>> It is not like I was wrong.
>
> You did what you've often done, used laymen terms *as* you tried to
> 'sell' the idea that it's your 'opponent' who isn't a "moderately
> technical reader" and not *you*, Mr. Dishonest Hypocrite.
>
>> He still jumped in to attack and insist I was wrong
>> about a copied file not being a "complete copy", as he said it.
>
> BTW, did you happen to notice when FTR told you that you were "wrong"
> about Gremlin being "lost", he used the phrase " actual new complete
> file"? Words have meaning for a reason and they're even more important
> in 'tech talking', Mr. "moderately technical reader".

He "quoted" me to support his floodbot accusation, too. Shame what he quoted,
didn't support what he was claiming. This really is just like that
conversation. No joke, it really is.

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> news:VISzM.79043$QQFb.66479@fx38.iad Sun,
06 Aug 2023 19:42:45 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On Aug 6, 2023 at 12:20:20 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
> <sfsvcipulpmp0od7lre4icqi66o7tc1ff4@4ax.com>:
>
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>> <David.B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>> David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>>>> news:_rSyM.473125$TPw2.189493@fx17.iad Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:35:38
>>>>>> GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/08/2023 03:23, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>>> It's always teasing with you when you get called out for doing
>>>>>>>> very dishonest shit towards someone else. I don't recall you
>>>>>>>> admitting you were trolling me or anyone else previously though.
>>>>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please enter the fray on the ASC forum and let the gurus there
>>>>>>> school you. If you dare!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know some of the individuals who make use of that forum. Some of
>>>>>> them are gurus, many are not.
>>>>>
>>>>> *WHICH* posting names do you know on the ASC forums, Gremlin?
>>>>> Are such folk misusing the forums for malicious purposes ....
>>>>> or actually trying to help folk?
>>>>>
>>>>>> More are like Snit than they are like me, if that helps
>>>>>> you. I'll play along though, it beats well, you know. What do you
>>>>>> think they will be schooling me in?
>>>>>
>>>>> Honesty? Accuracy?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I only ask this because you incorrectly thought Snit got one over
>>>>>> on me. You were confident, in fact, that he'd done so. Isn't it
>>>>>> nice to read from some of the others who post here with technical
>>>>>> backgrounds have all backed up what I wrote, while, not supporting
>>>>>> - as in telling him that he's wrong - Snit. What do you have to say
>>>>>> about that David? It didn't turn out as you expected, eh, old bean.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not yet convinced that Snit *WAS* wrong. Please add your
>>>>> thoughts to the thread here:-
>>>>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853
>>>>>
>>>>> What posting 'nym will you use?
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, the thread has NO input from me; none at all.
>>>>
>>>> Gremlin:
>>>> -----
>>>> So you don't realize he isn't making sense? I'll make this
>>>> easy for you. How would a system let you think you copied
>>>> a file from point a to point b, but somehow, the copy in
>>>> point b is actually just the differences between the
>>>> copies, except that there aren't any differences between
>>>> them until you make a change to the original or the
>>>> duplicate one.
>>>> -----
>>>> None of this makes sense. Gremlin confused the idea of the COPY,
>>>> where a new file is shown in the Finder but, in the background it is
>>>> the same data, with what happens when one of those files is opened
>>>> and changed.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>> file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>> the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>> a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>> being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>> havent even made yet?
>>>> -----
>>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>> should be a complete copy.
>>>> -----
>>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file
>>>> browser) but it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> It can't track differences and
>>>> just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>> changes to the original.
>>>> -----
>>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is
>>>> incoherent nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced
>>>> file changes being tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I
>>>> do not know... but his comment is gibberish.
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>> in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>> specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>> -----
>>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land
>>>> of APFS being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new, which
>>>> it is compared to other natural file systems to compare it to
>>>> (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS... maybe even FAT32/64) he could not understand
>>>> that, either.
>>>>
>>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and went
>>>> into nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>>
>>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>
>>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>
>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing
>> you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>>
>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>
> I quoted Gremlin.

You quoted me when you falsely accused me of having a copy of the floodbot
too. What you quoted didn't support the story you wrote around it, though.

Neither does this one.

> And I showed a video which backs what I was saying.

Umm, actually, the video backed what I wrote about it, not your 'version'.

> It is not like I was wrong.

Yea, heh, you were/still are.

That's why almost everyone else who posts here has told you that you were
wrong, Snit. They aren't pulling it out of their asses. They know for a fact
that you *are wrong*, Snit.

Here's two reminders:
Message-ID: <uaj6pk$1b1kc$1@dont-email.me>
He said that Gremlin was lost on the whole idea of a 'copy' not taking
up storage space ... I said he was not. As far as which Apple
filesystem uses it and when, I couldn't care any less. Copy on write is
well known in the fast storage realm.

***

Message-ID: <uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me>
Snit wrote:
> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy not
taking
> any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.

And FTR replied with this:

You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy' in
the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to actually
be created with the modifications and the two files would then be
different.

I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was discussed
before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest. Fact is, you
can see this happening if you copy a large file to the same and
different volumes and note the difference in time to complete the task.
***

Snit, your tendency to bullshit and wiggle is well known.

He still jumped in to attack and insist I was
> wrong about a copied file not being a "complete copy", as he said it.
>
>
>

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"

Steve Carroll <"Steve Carroll"@noSPAM.none>
news:ub0bia$4ci$1@fretwizzer.eternal-september.org Wed, 09 Aug 2023 15:32:27
GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>> Steve Carroll <"Steve Carroll"@noSPAM.none>
[snip]

>>>> I quoted Gremlin.
>>>
>>> I'll quote you making your admission that JD was right about reporting
>>> (despite your babbling about "marketing"):
>>>
>>> "Very much marketing... but with that said, Apple does report free space
>>> poorly. I can delete gigs of data and it does not change anything. But
>>> then it changes later."
>>>
>>> And here's Gremlin's reply, a logical question given the limited info:
>>>
>>> "Are you actually deleting then, or is it being sent to temp storage in
>>> case you change your mind for a period of time?"
>>>
>>> Notably, you then shot back 'the way you often do', with:
>>>
>>> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
>>> understand that they are not just being put in the Trash (or Recycle Bin
>>> in Windows terms) but that this is being emptied."
>>>
>>> You've clearly suggested he's not even a "moderately technical reader".
>>>
>>> Equally 'notable', elsewhere you wrote:
>>>
>>> "Some of this comes from the new(er) file system where if you have a 10
>>> GB file and you copy it, in the background it is not really copied. The
>>> only thing saved in the new file are changes you make. But this means if
>>> you delete either 10 GB file you do not free 10 GB of space. It makes
>>> things more efficient but can be confusing when clearing out files to
>>> make space. Does not explain why things take time though."
>>>
>>> Let's "note" what you *didn't* say there, that you felt compelled to
>>> subsequently add when Gremlin correctly "noted" circumstances for
>>> copying a file in certain instances, instances that *hadn't* yet been
>>> determined:
>>>
>>> "If I copy file a from location one to location two; it should be a
>>> complete copy."
>>>
>>> And, of course, if one understand the difference between "copy" and
>>> "Copy-On-Write", as also "noted" below, that statement is factually
>>> correct in some circumstances (you know, the thing you *hadn't* covered
>>> yet to make your 'sale').
>>>
>>> To that, you subsequently felt compelled to add what I 'noted' above:
>>> "Assuming the same volume, that is not the case with APFS."
>>>
>>> IOW, all this bluster of yours, where you're trying to 'sell' the idea
>>> that he's not even a "moderately technical reader", is based on a
>>> timeline context that you're trying to take advantage of to 'make the
>>> sale'... but people aren't as stupid as you need them to be, they just
>>> aren't. For some reason, you struggle with this despite how many "show"
>>> you they aren't.
>>>
>>> I suggest you "note" FTR's comment about a language barrier and the use
>>> of the term "Copy-On-Write" as mentioned by FTR and seen in the video he
>>> linked to. Why? The best answer to that is to use what you tried to use
>>> on Gremlin...
>>>
>>> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
>>> understand that" there are technical terms delineating "copy" from
>>> "Copy-On-Write" (and Redirect-On_Write), a thing that Gremlin appears to
>>> have delineated... a thing you failed to delineate... as well as failing
>>> to initially point out you were 'copying' to what you had to
>>> subsequently add in order to make your 'sales' attempt: "the same
>>> volume".
>>>
>>>> And I showed a video which backs what I was saying.
>>>
>>> Same issue, that video "showed" you used the term "copy" when you should
>>> have used the term "Copy-On-Write" and any "moderately technical reader"
>>> would agree with that... were he/she "honest and honorable" about
>>> 'talking tech'. FTR has stated that Gremlin knows about this, so what's
>>> next for your 'sales pitch'?
>>>
>>>> It is not like I was wrong.
>>>
>>> You did what you've often done, used laymen terms *as* you tried to
>>> 'sell' the idea that it's your 'opponent' who isn't a "moderately
>>> technical reader" and not *you*, Mr. Dishonest Hypocrite.
>>>
>>>> He still jumped in to attack and insist I was wrong
>>>> about a copied file not being a "complete copy", as he said it.
>>>
>>> BTW, did you happen to notice when FTR told you that you were "wrong"
>>> about Gremlin being "lost", he used the phrase " actual new complete
>>> file"? Words have meaning for a reason and they're even more important
>>> in 'tech talking', Mr. "moderately technical reader".
>>
>> Haha!
>>
>> Go Steve! :)
>
> I'm sure you've noticed that Glasser's 'blackout' of several of us is
> bogus (made in bad faith). Why do you think he started it?

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it might have something to do
with this thread and the fallout he's gotten over it, from *every single
person* who has a technical background here. He was trying *hard* to make
the sale that (a) I didn't know about this, and (b) that he taught me about
it. He couldn't make the sale to a single person here. I don't think DB even
bought it.

And of course, he's responding to pee scent, lying his arse off all over
again, as he 'ignores us' for the rest of the month. <g> What he means is
that he's going to continue talking shit, he's just not going to respond to
some of us who call him out for it. Somehow, in his fucked up little mind,
this is a good thing to be doing, that it's going to help him out.

He's seriously fucked in the head. He's exactly the kind of loser that David
Brooks would befriend for alterior motives.

--
I was told I could avoid Jail if I went to therapy.
At my first session the therapist said to me, "Imagine a train is coming
towards you, what do you do?" I said, "I get in my helicopter and fly away"
He said, "Where did you get the helicopter from?" I said, "The same fuckin
place you got that train"