So... it is finally time to push this Win7 box to the side for limited
use and move on to a Win11 Pro box.

Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic
Shell on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used
to 7 without cheating.

I know the curve is going to be painful (I'm getting older and haven't
wanted to learn new things for the last several years) and am looking
for ways to make the change less excrutiating.

I understand that Classic Shell is dead and am wondering if there is
another reliable substitute that can help me change the deal enough to
at least make the menus, start buttons and folders and such like the
old XP. I saw there is an 'Open Shell' site to replace Classic but
Firefox and Avast seem to have a fit over the site.

Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more
modern?

Yikes. To think that when we moved from 3.1 to 95 and GUI's, I used to
help people learn to understand the change and participated heavily in
the usenet support groups for years... Now I'm just pegging the old
Dread-O-Meter on this one. Gotta do it, though.

Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.

<SIGH>

Jess Fertudei graced us with on 11/29/2023 5:29 PM:
> So... it is finally time to push this Win7 box to the side for limited
> use and move on to a Win11 Pro box.
>
> Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic
> Shell on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used
> to 7 without cheating.
>
> I know the curve is going to be painful (I'm getting older and haven't
> wanted to learn new things for the last several years) and am looking
> for ways to make the change less excrutiating.
>
> I understand that Classic Shell is dead and am wondering if there is
> another reliable substitute that can help me change the deal enough to
> at least make the menus, start buttons and folders and such like the old
> XP. I saw there is an 'Open Shell' site to replace Classic but Firefox
> and Avast seem to have a fit over the site.
>
> Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more modern?
>
> Yikes. To think that when we moved from 3.1 to 95 and GUI's, I used to
> help people learn to understand the change and participated heavily in
> the usenet support groups for years... Now I'm just pegging the old
> Dread-O-Meter on this one. Gotta do it, though.
>
> Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
> window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.
>
Hello Jess, Classic Shell is nominally known as a Win 7 Start button
replacement for Windows 10. Could it be you are using it on Win 10 to
help keep the Win 7 look?

If so, you could consider moving to Win 10, if not already done so.
While there are UI and GUI changes from Win 7 to Win 10, they are not as
dramatic as going from Win 7 to Win 11.

Of course, if you've already purchase a new computer with Win 11 already
installed. I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 and installed StartIsBack,
see:https://www.startisback.com/#download-tab) and found it to be a
better replacement than Open Shell. There is a nominal one-time $4 fee
for it which really is quite reasonable considering its features.

Also, the site seems to imply it's not meant for Win 11 but has a tab
for a Win 11 Start replacement named, StartAllBack
(https://www.startallback.com/) and provides several screensots to give
you an idea of what to expect; although, I've never tried it since I'm
on Win 10.

Cheers

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Sailfish graced us with on 11/29/2023 9:43 PM:
> Jess Fertudei graced us with on 11/29/2023 5:29 PM:
>> So... it is finally time to push this Win7 box to the side for limited
>> use and move on to a Win11 Pro box.
>>
>> Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic
>> Shell on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used
>> to 7 without cheating.
>>
>> I know the curve is going to be painful (I'm getting older and haven't
>> wanted to learn new things for the last several years) and am looking
>> for ways to make the change less excrutiating.
>>
>> I understand that Classic Shell is dead and am wondering if there is
>> another reliable substitute that can help me change the deal enough to
>> at least make the menus, start buttons and folders and such like the
>> old XP. I saw there is an 'Open Shell' site to replace Classic but
>> Firefox and Avast seem to have a fit over the site.
>>
>> Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more modern?
>>
>> Yikes. To think that when we moved from 3.1 to 95 and GUI's, I used to
>> help people learn to understand the change and participated heavily in
>> the usenet support groups for years... Now I'm just pegging the old
>> Dread-O-Meter on this one. Gotta do it, though.
>>
>> Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through
>> a window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.
>>
> Hello Jess, Classic Shell is nominally known as a Win 7 Start button
> replacement for Windows 10. Could it be you are using it on Win 10 to
> help keep the Win 7 look?
>
> If so, you could consider moving to Win 10, if not already done so.
> While there are UI and GUI changes from Win 7 to Win 10, they are not as
> dramatic as going from Win 7 to Win 11.
>
> Of course, if you've already purchase a new computer with Win 11 already
> installed. I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 and installed StartIsBack,
> see:https://www.startisback.com/#download-tab) and found it to be a
> better replacement than Open Shell. There is a nominal one-time $4 fee
> for it which really is quite reasonable considering its features.
>
> Also, the site seems to imply it's not meant for Win 11 but has a tab
> for a Win 11 Start replacement named, StartAllBack
> (https://www.startallback.com/) and provides several screensots to give
> you an idea of what to expect; although, I've never tried it since I'm
> on Win 10.
>
"Of course, if you've already purchase a new computer with Win 11
already installed."

s/b

"Of course, if you've already purchase a new computer with Win 11
already installed then the rest of this paragraph doesn't apply."

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Jess Fertudei <not@this.juncture.com> wrote:
> So... it is finally time to push this Win7 box to the side for limited
> use and move on to a Win11 Pro box.
>
> Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic
> Shell on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used
> to 7 without cheating.
>
> I know the curve is going to be painful (I'm getting older and haven't
> wanted to learn new things for the last several years) and am looking
> for ways to make the change less excrutiating.
>
> I understand that Classic Shell is dead and am wondering if there is
> another reliable substitute that can help me change the deal enough to
> at least make the menus, start buttons and folders and such like the
> old XP. I saw there is an 'Open Shell' site to replace Classic but
> Firefox and Avast seem to have a fit over the site.

I used the Classic Start Menu on Windows 8.1 and now use
Open-Shell-Menu on Windows 11. It's essentially the same as Classic
Start Menu.

I downloaded it from the Open-Shell homepage:

<https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu>

If Firefox gives you problems, just use another browser. Windows 11
comes with Microsoft Edge.

As to Avast: I've used Avast for some two decades, but on Windows 11,
I've switched to the built-in Microsoft Defender Antivirus. Never looked
back.

> Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more
> modern?
>
> Yikes. To think that when we moved from 3.1 to 95 and GUI's, I used to
> help people learn to understand the change and participated heavily in
> the usenet support groups for years... Now I'm just pegging the old
> Dread-O-Meter on this one. Gotta do it, though.
>
> Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
> window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.

It is alt.comp.os.windows-11, but you probably have to refresh the
newsgroups list in your newsreader (which often isn't done
automatically, because of its size).

> <SIGH>

Hang in there!

Sailfish wrote on 11/30/2023 :
> Jess Fertudei graced us with on 11/29/2023 5:29 PM:
>> So... it is finally time to push this Win7 box to the side for limited use
>> and move on to a Win11 Pro box.
>>
>> Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic Shell
>> on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used to 7
>> without cheating.
>>
>> I know the curve is going to be painful (I'm getting older and haven't
>> wanted to learn new things for the last several years) and am looking for
>> ways to make the change less excrutiating.
>>
>> I understand that Classic Shell is dead and am wondering if there is
>> another reliable substitute that can help me change the deal enough to at
>> least make the menus, start buttons and folders and such like the old XP. I
>> saw there is an 'Open Shell' site to replace Classic but Firefox and Avast
>> seem to have a fit over the site.
>>
>> Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more modern?
>>
>> Yikes. To think that when we moved from 3.1 to 95 and GUI's, I used to help
>> people learn to understand the change and participated heavily in the
>> usenet support groups for years... Now I'm just pegging the old
>> Dread-O-Meter on this one. Gotta do it, though.
>>
>> Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
>> window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.
>>
> Hello Jess, Classic Shell is nominally known as a Win 7 Start button
> replacement for Windows 10. Could it be you are using it on Win 10 to help
> keep the Win 7 look?
>
> If so, you could consider moving to Win 10, if not already done so. While
> there are UI and GUI changes from Win 7 to Win 10, they are not as dramatic
> as going from Win 7 to Win 11.
>
> Of course, if you've already purchase a new computer with Win 11 already
> installed. I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 and installed StartIsBack,
> see:https://www.startisback.com/#download-tab) and found it to be a better
> replacement than Open Shell. There is a nominal one-time $4 fee for it which
> really is quite reasonable considering its features.
>
> Also, the site seems to imply it's not meant for Win 11 but has a tab for a
> Win 11 Start replacement named, StartAllBack (https://www.startallback.com/)
> and provides several screensots to give you an idea of what to expect;
> although, I've never tried it since I'm on Win 10.
>
> Cheers

Hi, I moved to 7 kicking and screaming all the way. CS was suggested by
some as a spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down.

----- begin paste -----

Version 4.3.0 – general release

What is Classic Shell?
Classic Shell™ is a collection of usability enhancement for Windows. It
has a customizable Start menu and Start button, it adds a toolbar for
Windows Explorer and supports a variety of smaller features.

System Requirements
Classic Shell works on Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, Windows
Server 2008 R2, Windows Server 2012 and Windows Server 2012 R2. Both 32
and 64-bit versions are supported (the same installer works for both).
Some skins for the start menu require Aero theme to be enabled. Others
require at least Basic theme.

Components

Classic Shell has three major components:
Classic Start Menu
Classic Explorer
Classic IE

----- end paste -----

Is 'StartIsBack' from a reputable writer? Does it rearrange file
explorer to a more traditional layout? I have too many life-issues at
the moment to be fumbling and playing around at trying to figure out
'what is where and how to use it' with my computer.

Thanks for replying...

Frank Slootweg wrote on 11/30/2023 :
> Jess Fertudei <not@this.juncture.com> wrote:
>> So... it is finally time to push this Win7 box to the side for limited
>> use and move on to a Win11 Pro box.
>>
>> Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic
>> Shell on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used
>> to 7 without cheating.
>>
>> I know the curve is going to be painful (I'm getting older and haven't
>> wanted to learn new things for the last several years) and am looking
>> for ways to make the change less excrutiating.
>>
>> I understand that Classic Shell is dead and am wondering if there is
>> another reliable substitute that can help me change the deal enough to
>> at least make the menus, start buttons and folders and such like the
>> old XP. I saw there is an 'Open Shell' site to replace Classic but
>> Firefox and Avast seem to have a fit over the site.
>
> I used the Classic Start Menu on Windows 8.1 and now use
> Open-Shell-Menu on Windows 11. It's essentially the same as Classic
> Start Menu.
>
> I downloaded it from the Open-Shell homepage:
>
> <https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu>
>
> If Firefox gives you problems, just use another browser. Windows 11
> comes with Microsoft Edge.
>
> As to Avast: I've used Avast for some two decades, but on Windows 11,
> I've switched to the built-in Microsoft Defender Antivirus. Never looked
> back.
>
>> Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more
>> modern?
>>
>> Yikes. To think that when we moved from 3.1 to 95 and GUI's, I used to
>> help people learn to understand the change and participated heavily in
>> the usenet support groups for years... Now I'm just pegging the old
>> Dread-O-Meter on this one. Gotta do it, though.
>>
>> Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
>> window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.
>
> It is alt.comp.os.windows-11, but you probably have to refresh the
> newsgroups list in your newsreader (which often isn't done
> automatically, because of its size).
>
>> <SIGH>
>
> Hang in there!

Hi, I tried to look at it from Edge as well, but Avast still had a
convulsion. Is it reliable and secure?

My MesNews said it was refreshing, but I will try again.

Thanks for the reply... .. .

Jess Fertudei wrote on 11/30/2023 :
> Frank Slootweg wrote on 11/30/2023 :
>> Jess Fertudei <not@this.juncture.com> wrote:
>>> So... it is finally time to push this Win7 box to the side for limited use
>>> and move on to a Win11 Pro box.
>>>
>>> Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic
>>> Shell on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used to
>>> 7 without cheating.
>>>
>>> I know the curve is going to be painful (I'm getting older and haven't
>>> wanted to learn new things for the last several years) and am looking for
>>> ways to make the change less excrutiating.
>>>
>>> I understand that Classic Shell is dead and am wondering if there is
>>> another reliable substitute that can help me change the deal enough to at
>>> least make the menus, start buttons and folders and such like the old XP.
>>> I saw there is an 'Open Shell' site to replace Classic but Firefox and
>>> Avast seem to have a fit over the site.
>>
>> I used the Classic Start Menu on Windows 8.1 and now use
>> Open-Shell-Menu on Windows 11. It's essentially the same as Classic
>> Start Menu.
>>
>> I downloaded it from the Open-Shell homepage:
>>
>> <https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu>
>>
>> If Firefox gives you problems, just use another browser. Windows 11
>> comes with Microsoft Edge.
>>
>> As to Avast: I've used Avast for some two decades, but on Windows 11,
>> I've switched to the built-in Microsoft Defender Antivirus. Never looked
>> back.
>>
>>> Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more modern?
>>>
>>> Yikes. To think that when we moved from 3.1 to 95 and GUI's, I used to
>>> help people learn to understand the change and participated heavily in the
>>> usenet support groups for years... Now I'm just pegging the old
>>> Dread-O-Meter on this one. Gotta do it, though.
>>>
>>> Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
>>> window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.
>>
>> It is alt.comp.os.windows-11, but you probably have to refresh the
>> newsgroups list in your newsreader (which often isn't done
>> automatically, because of its size).
>>
>>> <SIGH>
>>
>> Hang in there!
>
>
> Hi, I tried to look at it from Edge as well, but Avast still had a
> convulsion. Is it reliable and secure?
>
> My MesNews said it was refreshing, but I will try again.
>
>
> Thanks for the reply... .. .

What I could not move from brain to fingers before coffee was that
MesNews is like many things on this box now in that it is cooperating
poorly. I think this old 7 is getting tired and I don't see it as worth
trying to troubleshoot - too many things that do not keep up to modern
life for me, now.

In message <oOmcnfk9DMX75PX4nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> at Thu, 30
Nov 2023 07:00:34, Jess Fertudei <not@this.juncture.com> writes
[]
>What I could not move from brain to fingers before coffee was that
>MesNews is like many things on this box now in that it is cooperating
>poorly. I think this old 7 is getting tired and I don't see it as worth
>trying to troubleshoot - too many things that do not keep up to modern
>life for me, now.

This 7-32 (bought second-hand in January this year, 2023) is still
serving me fine. I do have Classic Shell. I'm not sure what of "modern
life" it can't do that I actually want. (I do have 4G of RAM, which gets
used these days; also The Great Suspender in Chrome, which sleeps tabs
I'm not looking at after a preset time [I have 17 tabs from 12 websites
open at the moment], which lightens the load quite a bit.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change
[via Penny Mayes (mayes@pmail.net)]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:29:02 -0500, Jess Fertudei
<not@this.juncture.com> wrote:

>So... it is finally time to push this Win7 box to the side for limited
>use and move on to a Win11 Pro box.
>
>Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic
>Shell on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used
>to 7 without cheating.
>
>I know the curve is going to be painful (I'm getting older and haven't
>wanted to learn new things for the last several years) and am looking
>for ways to make the change less excrutiating.
>
>I understand that Classic Shell is dead and am wondering if there is
>another reliable substitute that can help me change the deal enough to
>at least make the menus, start buttons and folders and such like the
>old XP. I saw there is an 'Open Shell' site to replace Classic but
>Firefox and Avast seem to have a fit over the site.
>
>Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more
>modern?

There are several alternatives. I think Classic Shell is pretty good
but Start 11 is even better. Start 11 isn't free but it's only $4.99
and comes with a 30-day free trial. I recommend ignoring my opinion
and everyone else's and instead trying them all and picking the one
you like best,

>Yikes. To think that when we moved from 3.1 to 95 and GUI's, I used to
>help people learn to understand the change and participated heavily in
>the usenet support groups for years... Now I'm just pegging the old
>Dread-O-Meter on this one. Gotta do it, though.
>
>Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
>window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.

alt.comp.os.windows-11

"Jess Fertudei" <not@this.juncture.com> wrote

| Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic
| Shell on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used
| to 7 without cheating.
| I know the feeling. :) I'm writing this on XP. I also have
a dual boot of 10/11 on a laptop that I use for occasional
demanding websites. I'm using Classic Shell on both. I
haven't tried Open Shell. I also have ShutUp10 and
Winaerotweaker. And I run TinyFirewall, as well as using
the Registry setting to block updates. That's provided a
modicum of civility. I don't use 10/11 enough to have got
into details of how to fix minor irritations.
(I mostly installed 11 only for testing software, so I haven't
inspected it in detail to see how it reacted to the listed
software. It seems to be fine, looking like my "Classi-ified"
Win10.)

| Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more
| modern?
|

I don't know about more modern. That's mostly marketing.
There are ribbon menus and less choices. The settings
are spread all over. The UI, as usual, is jazzed up to make
it look more "modern". (Microsoft got over their minimalist
trip from Win8. Now it's minimalist with flair.) Aside from
that, it's not so different. I think all of my software works.
My own VB6 software works in both 10 and 11.

The biggest hassle for me started with Win7, with the
situation of admins being technically lackey users. But
with UAC turned all the way down I usually don't have
much trouble. Though if I were going to use it as my primary
system I suspect that I might want to run as the real
Administrator. It drives me crazy to be in the middle of things
and suddenly told I don't have permission to do what I'm
doing.

On 11/29/23 19:29, Jess Fertudei wrote:

[snip]
> Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
> window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.

Can you find the Win10 group? If so, you may just need to refresh the
groups list.

> <SIGH>

--
25 days until the winter celebration (Monday, December 25, 2023 12:00 AM
for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To become a popular religion, it is only necessary for a superstition
to enslave a philosophy." [William Ralph Inge, 1920]

On 11/30/2023 7:07 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 11/29/23 19:29, Jess Fertudei wrote:
>
> [snip]
>> Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.
>
> Can you find the Win10 group? If so, you may just need to refresh the groups list.
>
>> <SIGH>
>

alt.comp.os.windows-10
alt.comp.os.windows-11

In message <uka60u$1d13n$1@dont-email.me> at Thu, 30 Nov 2023 09:25:11,
Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> writes
>
>"Jess Fertudei" <not@this.juncture.com> wrote
[]
>| Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more
>| modern?
>|
>
> I don't know about more modern. That's mostly marketing.
>There are ribbon menus and less choices. The settings
>are spread all over. The UI, as usual, is jazzed up to make

Agreed. I see very little that makes me want to move from 7.
[]
> The biggest hassle for me started with Win7, with the
>situation of admins being technically lackey users. But
>with UAC turned all the way down I usually don't have
>much trouble. Though if I were going to use it as my primary
>system I suspect that I might want to run as the real
>Administrator. It drives me crazy to be in the middle of things
>and suddenly told I don't have permission to do what I'm
>doing.
>
The majority of such situations - though I can't remember last time I
had one, it wasn't recently (but then maybe you do things I don't) - I
find just an application of "Take Ownership" gets rid of the "can't"
messages.
>
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

What has happened since 1979, I suspect, is that the spotting of mistakes has
become entirely associated with mean-spiritedness, snobbishness and
judgementalism. But...can be...funny and interesting.
Lynn Truss, RT 2015/2/21-27

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote

| The majority of such situations - though I can't remember last time I
| had one, it wasn't recently (but then maybe you do things I don't) - I
| find just an application of "Take Ownership" gets rid of the "can't"
| messages.

Yes. I wrote such a program myself when I encountered
Win7. I figured it would be worthwhile to work out exactly
how the system worked. As it turned out, I used the easiest
of a large number of ways to take ownership and then
change permissions. But it's still a hassle. Like having to open
a 10 number combination lock every time you want to lift
your toilet seat. Such things cry out to be fixed. :)

Most software is still supporting 7, or only recently
stopped. So there shouldn't be problems until browsers
get to a point where webmasters are using script and
CSS that things like FF 115 don't recognize. That's actually
the only reason I leave XP -- to deal with badly designed
webpages that are using "cutting edge" code the FF 52
can't handle. Your Win7 computer may die before it
gets outdated. I'm running a Win7 Dell now that's 13
years old. Though I only use it for streaming online
movies to a TV.

My dentist is a good example of a site that won't work
in XP. They send me at least 2 inane reminders of appts.
I'm supposed to click a link to "confirm". It used to work.
Now I get a blank page. But I don't fire up Win10 for that.
I just call them and confirm over the phone. Maybe with
enough such calls they'll stop nagging me with unnecessary
confirmation emails. (They start 2 1/2 weeks before the appt!)
Back when they had to actually make a call it was 24-48
hours before the appt. And of course, before that it was
assumed that having made an appt meant that I knew I
had an appt. That wasn't so long ago. Before long I expect
they'll want me to confirm once a day for a month leading
up to the appt. Why not? No skin off their back. They just
pay a service to handle all that.

In message <ukblo1$1o514$1@dont-email.me> at Thu, 30 Nov 2023 22:59:38,
Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
>
>| The majority of such situations - though I can't remember last time I
>| had one, it wasn't recently (but then maybe you do things I don't) - I
>| find just an application of "Take Ownership" gets rid of the "can't"
>| messages.
>
> Yes. I wrote such a program myself when I encountered
>Win7. I figured it would be worthwhile to work out exactly
>how the system worked. As it turned out, I used the easiest
>of a large number of ways to take ownership and then
>change permissions. But it's still a hassle. Like having to open

I must admit I used a third-party utility to add it; it's there in my
right-click menu for (IIRR) both files and folders now.

>a 10 number combination lock every time you want to lift
>your toilet seat. Such things cry out to be fixed. :)

Oh, sister Josephine ... (-:
>
> Most software is still supporting 7, or only recently
>stopped. So there shouldn't be problems until browsers

I have most of the software I want.

>get to a point where webmasters are using script and
>CSS that things like FF 115 don't recognize. That's actually
>the only reason I leave XP -- to deal with badly designed
>webpages that are using "cutting edge" code the FF 52

Yes, that's the only thing I can think of needing - web pages that won't
work with the browsers that work with 7. However, I don't remember the
last time - if ever - I came across one.

>can't handle. Your Win7 computer may die before it
>gets outdated. I'm running a Win7 Dell now that's 13
>years old. Though I only use it for streaming online
>movies to a TV.

This is my main (only, really) computer.
>
> My dentist is a good example of a site that won't work
>in XP. They send me at least 2 inane reminders of appts.
>I'm supposed to click a link to "confirm". It used to work.
>Now I get a blank page. But I don't fire up Win10 for that.
>I just call them and confirm over the phone. Maybe with
>enough such calls they'll stop nagging me with unnecessary
>confirmation emails. (They start 2 1/2 weeks before the appt!)
>Back when they had to actually make a call it was 24-48
>hours before the appt. And of course, before that it was
>assumed that having made an appt meant that I knew I
>had an appt. That wasn't so long ago. Before long I expect
>they'll want me to confirm once a day for a month leading
>up to the appt. Why not? No skin off their back. They just
>pay a service to handle all that.
>
Yes, that's the problem - they outsource it: fair enough as they aren't
IT people. Mine (or their service) send a link, with rather nasty
wording that if I don't fill in the form I may lose the appointment. The
link is graphical and online only; I told them and they sent me a direct
link. So I went to it, entered my surname and DOB, and it said "enter
the code we have sent to the number we have on file for you", or words
to that effect. Trouble is, that number is my landline, and of course I
don't receive it. (I _have_ received a code via my landline - it is
spoken - but obviously only very few companies know how to trigger
that.) I've told the dentist about the problem, and they let me sign the
form when I'm there (even saying at one time "I don't know why they
[their service] do that", but clearly unable to change it). I would
interact with the service provider, but it's virtually impossible to
find how to contact them: googling them (it's something like
"dentalhub") just finds lots of dentists who use them, not the company
itself. (I'm in England.)
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of
them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for
science intact. - Carl Sagan (interview w. Psychology Today published '96-1-1)

Jess Fertudei <not@this.juncture.com> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote on 11/30/2023 :
[...]
> > I used the Classic Start Menu on Windows 8.1 and now use
> > Open-Shell-Menu on Windows 11. It's essentially the same as Classic
> > Start Menu.
> >
> > I downloaded it from the Open-Shell homepage:
> >
> > <https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu>
> >
> > If Firefox gives you problems, just use another browser. Windows 11
> > comes with Microsoft Edge.
> >
> > As to Avast: I've used Avast for some two decades, but on Windows 11,
> > I've switched to the built-in Microsoft Defender Antivirus. Never looked
> > back.
[...]
> >> Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
> >> window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.
> >
> > It is alt.comp.os.windows-11, but you probably have to refresh the
> > newsgroups list in your newsreader (which often isn't done
> > automatically, because of its size).
> >
> >> <SIGH>
> >
> > Hang in there!
>
> Hi, I tried to look at it from Edge as well, but Avast still had a
> convulsion. Is it reliable and secure?

It's fine. I'm using it since well over a year (16 months) without any
problem. BTW, I'm using Open-Shell-Menu and the native Windows 11 Start
menu side-by-side, just in case I want/need to use the latter.

As to Avast having a convulsion: Surely it must be possible to tell
Avast to shut up? If you download the .exe installation file but don't
execute it yet, you're safe and then you tell Avast to scan the .exe
file, just to be on the safe side.

> My MesNews said it was refreshing, but I will try again.

Perhaps another MesNews user can help you on how to refresh the
newsgroups list.

> Thanks for the reply... .. .

You're welcome.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:29:02 -0500, Jess Fertudei
<not@this.juncture.com> wrote:

>So... it is finally time to push this Win7 box to the side for limited
>use and move on to a Win11 Pro box.
>
>Thing is, I really didn't ever want to leave XP for 7 and put Classic
>Shell on it for familiarity's sake and so didn't particularly get used
>to 7 without cheating.
>
>I know the curve is going to be painful (I'm getting older and haven't
>wanted to learn new things for the last several years) and am looking
>for ways to make the change less excrutiating.
>
>I understand that Classic Shell is dead and am wondering if there is
>another reliable substitute that can help me change the deal enough to
>at least make the menus, start buttons and folders and such like the
>old XP. I saw there is an 'Open Shell' site to replace Classic but
>Firefox and Avast seem to have a fit over the site.
>
>Any good sites to help prepare an old F@*k for a move to the more
>modern?
>
>Yikes. To think that when we moved from 3.1 to 95 and GUI's, I used to
>help people learn to understand the change and participated heavily in
>the usenet support groups for years... Now I'm just pegging the old
>Dread-O-Meter on this one. Gotta do it, though.
>
>Anyway to make it easier to learn without throwing a computer through a
>window? Hell, I can't even find a newsgroup for 11.
>
>
><SIGH>
I bought 2 used laptops that came with 10 and somehow I was suddenly
running 11. I guess I just said OK somewhere I shouldn't have but all
of my other machines are on 7 and I really want to get at least one of
these back to 7. I am looking for the drivers as we speak. HP doesn't
offer the package for this machine but I have seen drivers for other
machines with this chip set. If I strike out I am going to try one of
these 3d party shells. If I to the 7 thing I am going to have to do
that trick to insert the USB 3 driver into the WIM I suppose. I
haven't checked but there is a chance the other WIM I have will work.
I need to check the USB hardware..