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computers / comp.sys.raspberry-pi / Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

SubjectAuthor
* Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|+- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
| | |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | |   `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
| | |    `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | |     +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
| | |     |+- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | |     |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pidruck
| | |     | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |     |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
| | |     |   +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |     |   |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piRichard Harnden
| | |     |   | +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| | |     |   | |`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
| | |     |   | `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |     |   `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piTauno Voipio
| | |     |    +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |     |    `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| | |     `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | |      +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
| | |      |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | |      | `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
| | |      `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
| |  +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| |  |+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  ||+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piPancho
| |  |||+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  ||||`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piPancho
| |  |||| +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  |||| |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  |||| | +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
| |  |||| | |`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  |||| | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  |||| |  `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  |||| `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  |||`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  ||`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piCharlie Gibbs
| |  || `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  ||  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  ||   `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |  ||    `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |  |`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
| |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |   +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| |   +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piCharlie Gibbs
| |   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piComputer Nerd Kev
| +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMrtn
| |+- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
| |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMrtn
| |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piCharlie Gibbs
| `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|  |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|  |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  |   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|  +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|  `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piComputer Nerd Kev
|+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piR.Wieser
||`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
|| `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piR.Wieser
||  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
||   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piR.Wieser
|`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
| +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAhem A Rivet's Shot
| | +- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
| | `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piCharlie Gibbs
| `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piComputer Nerd Kev
|  +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  |+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|  ||`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|  || `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|  |`- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piIan
|  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pidruck
|   `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|    +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|    |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|    | +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAndy Burns
|    | |`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|    | | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
|    | |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|    | |   `- Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piMartin Gregorie
|    | `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piThe Natural Philosopher
|    |  `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piBob Latham
|    +* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piAndy Burns
|    `* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pidruck
+* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the piChris Elvidge
`* Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi56g.1173

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Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<uefjsc$33fp6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: new...@druck.org.uk (druck)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 21:15:06 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In-Reply-To: <5ae6d95530bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>
 by: druck - Wed, 20 Sep 2023 20:15 UTC

On 20/09/2023 13:09, Bob Latham wrote:
> Not got a linux machine only PIs doing little jobs.

Pi's running Linux are a Linux machine!

> I got an SD card and formatted it to fat32. I copied an image file to
> it that I had created last week and worked.
>
> Put it in a reader and plugged the reader into a PI I use as a spare
> for pi-hole and my intranet.
>
> Read my notes from Monday and a video on youtube ..
>
> $ sudo -1
> sudo: unable to resolve host intranet-pihole2: Name or service not
> known.

I think you need to ensure you select email and terminal fonts can
distinguish between i, l, and 1. The command is:-

sudo -i

That's a lower case letter i.

> # fdisk -l
>
> This gave me a list but mostly ram discs but my usb was there.
>
> From the video I typed...
>
> # mkdir /media/usb-drive
> # mount /dev/sda1 /media/usb-drive/
> # mount | grep sda1 (no idea, it's in the video)
> # cd /media/usb-drive/
> # ls
> # sudo fdisk -l <imagefile>
>
> Did the sums.
>
> # truncate <imagefile> -s 3896508416
>
> The '-s' caught me out but I got there eventually.
>
> The PI went away for not long maybe 10 seconds and came back.

You've truncated the image file, but you've not mentioned resizing the
partition sizes first. Without that step all you will be doing is not
writing some of partition to a new card, and the last partition will
still overlap the end, which things do not like.

> Thinking I'd done it, I wanted to get it back into a PC to take a
> look. I needed to dismount the usb, how ?????
>
> # umount /media/usb-drive (best guess)
> target is busy.
>
> This went on for half an hour or so. Surely it can't still be...
>
> I started to type this post and then I had a brain wobble. Have I got
> to get off it first?
>
> # cd
> # umount /media/usb-drive

If you have a terminal current directory set to the drive being
dismounted (or files open on it) this will happen. If you still cant
unmount after cd and closing any applications which you think may have
files open, you can do:-

umount -l /media/usb-drive

> Used win32diskimager and burnt an sd card. At this point I was
> guessing that I would now see a smaller 2nd partition and an
> unallocated area that I wouldn't get on these 4GB cards but would on
> larger cards.
>
> I ran partition wizard.
>
> No change there either that I could see. 2nd partition was still most
> of the drive and a good third was empty. No unallocated area.
>
> I either don't understand this or I've done (not done) something
> wrong.
>
> Any ideas?

Did you alter the partition table before truncating?

---druck

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<20230920215458.ffc0437632507386ef396e22@eircom.net>

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 21:54:58 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Wed, 20 Sep 2023 20:54 UTC

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 19:34:01 +0100
Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> wrote:

> sudo wants /your/ password,
> su wants /root's/ password.
>
> You can set up sudo to not need a password.
> You shouldn't need to know root's password.

For owner operated machines with only one human user it makes
little difference.

In a multi user environment sudo can be set up to give quite
precise capabilities to groups of users and allow accurate tracking of who
does what with their privileges - it can however be irritatingly hard to
prevent every way of escaping to a shell while still providing useful tools.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<uegrmi$3ddtf$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 08:34:42 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:34 UTC

On 20/09/2023 19:34, Richard Harnden wrote:

> You can set up sudo to not need a password.
> You shouldn't need to know root's password.

Ah. You must be a New Socialist.
To preface a personal preference with 'should'

"c. 1200, from Old English sceolde, past tense of sceal (see shall).
Preserves the original notion of "obligation" that has all but dropped
from shall"

'Should' implies a debt or moral obligation. I do not feel morally
obliged to leave root's password unset nor do I feel you have any legal
right or moral authority to lay that trip on me!

--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<uegro4$3ddtf$2@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 08:35:32 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:35 UTC

On 20/09/2023 20:04, Martin Gregorie wrote:

> re point 2: if you want to see what storage is mounted, run 'df' to get a
> list of all mounted partitions (file systems). This shows names of the
> file systems, they size in 1K blocks, the space used and available in each
> file system and the path to the fire system from '/'.
>
df -h presents the information in a more digestible form

--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<ueh7o6$3g30u$1@dont-email.me>

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From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 11:00:22 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Martin Gregorie - Thu, 21 Sep 2023 11:00 UTC

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 08:35:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 20/09/2023 20:04, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>
>> re point 2: if you want to see what storage is mounted, run 'df' to get
>> a list of all mounted partitions (file systems). This shows names of
>> the file systems, they size in 1K blocks, the space used and available
>> in each file system and the path to the fire system from '/'.
>>
> df -h presents the information in a more digestible form

Good suggestion. I seem to remember that this used to be the default
display format.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 11:15:43 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Martin Gregorie - Thu, 21 Sep 2023 11:15 UTC

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 21:54:58 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 19:34:01 +0100 Richard Harnden
> <richard.nospam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> sudo wants /your/ password,
>> su wants /root's/ password.
>>
>> You can set up sudo to not need a password.
>> You shouldn't need to know root's password.
>
> For owner operated machines with only one human user it makes
> little difference.
>
> In a multi user environment sudo can be set up to give quite
> precise capabilities to groups of users and allow accurate tracking of
> who does what with their privileges - it can however be irritatingly
> hard to prevent every way of escaping to a shell while still providing
> useful tools.

I always set up a root password as a backstop to prevent miscreants from
getting into systems on my LAN if they manage to sneak through my
firewall. Similarly, I encrypt a small partition as a way of preventing a
stolen machine from being booted (and as a depository for storing
passwords for internal user logins and external applications).

Yes, I know this isn't totally secure, but its probably good enough to
prevent a common or garden thief from using the machine or selling it to
anybody who doesn't know enough to reformat the disk and install Winders
on it.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 12:26:47 +0100
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 by: Bob Latham - Thu, 21 Sep 2023 11:26 UTC

In article <uefjsc$33fp6$1@dont-email.me>,
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
> On 20/09/2023 13:09, Bob Latham wrote:
> > Not got a linux machine only PIs doing little jobs.

> Pi's running Linux are a Linux machine!

Ok, how about don't have a Linux desktop PC.

> > I got an SD card and formatted it to fat32. I copied an image
> > file to it that I had created last week and worked.
> >
> > Put it in a reader and plugged the reader into a PI I use as a
> > spare for pi-hole and my intranet.
> >
> > Read my notes from Monday and a video on youtube ..
> >
> > $ sudo -1 sudo: unable to resolve host intranet-pihole2: Name or
> > service not known.

> I think you need to ensure you select email and terminal fonts can
> distinguish between i, l, and 1. The command is:-

> sudo -i

> That's a lower case letter i.

Yes, thanks. Somehow managed a typo on the news post.

> > The PI went away for not long maybe 10 seconds and came back.

> You've truncated the image file, but you've not mentioned resizing
> the partition sizes first. Without that step all you will be doing
> is not writing some of partition to a new card, and the last
> partition will still overlap the end, which things do not like.

I'm sure you're correct but once again I've reached the limits of
understanding. :-) I read back on the whole thread and see if I can
work out how resize a partition, no idea at the moment.

> > # cd
> > # umount /media/usb-drive

> If you have a terminal current directory set to the drive being
> dismounted (or files open on it) this will happen. If you still
> cant unmount after cd and closing any applications which you think
> may have files open, you can do:-

> umount -l /media/usb-drive

Thanks for that.

> Did you alter the partition table before truncating?

I just did what I wrote so very probably not. I've now got to work
out how to do it.

Thanks.

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 15:55:08 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Martin Gregorie - Thu, 21 Sep 2023 15:55 UTC

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 12:26:47 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:

> In article <uefjsc$33fp6$1@dont-email.me>,
> druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 20/09/2023 13:09, Bob Latham wrote:
>> > Not got a linux machine only PIs doing little jobs.
>
>> Pi's running Linux are a Linux machine!
>
> Ok, how about don't have a Linux desktop PC.
>
Have you got a desKtop or laptop with either

- a built-in CD drive

- a reasonably fast USB socket and either a portable USB hard disk or a
40GB USB stick.

If so, download a bootable Linux image onto it. Most PCs and laptops can
find and boot the Linux image you just downloaded and run it damaging the
existing OS (probably Windows) and associated filing system.

Now you can boot the PC from the Linux image, stick the SD card containing
the Pi's filing system into a vacant USB slot on the PC and it should show
up on your desktop, ready to be mounted and its contents inspected and
altered as needed.

Once you've finished with it, remember to unmount the PI's SD card before
you pull it out of its slot on the PC, close down Linux, disconnect the
device containing the Linux image and reboot from the PC as usual.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 09:38:47 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:38 UTC

On 21/09/2023 12:26, Bob Latham wrote:
>> You've truncated the image file, but you've not mentioned resizing
>> the partition sizes first. Without that step all you will be doing
>> is not writing some of partition to a new card, and the last
>> partition will still overlap the end, which things do not like.
> I'm sure you're correct but once again I've reached the limits of
> understanding. 😄 I read back on the whole thread and see if I can
> work out how resize a partition, no idea at the moment.
>

Yeah. That image file is now like a half empty bag of sugar with the top
cut off. It is not a half sized bag.
The partition is in a sense a container, and if you have left the part
of it that defines how big it is,but removed half of it, then the
computer will try and access parts that no longer exist.

This is (as the Book says) a Bad Thing.

--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Bob Latham - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:00 UTC

In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 21/09/2023 12:26, Bob Latham wrote:

> >> You've truncated the image file, but you've not mentioned
> >> resizing the partition sizes first. Without that step all you
> >> will be doing is not writing some of partition to a new card,
> >> and the last partition will still overlap the end, which things
> >> do not like.
> > I'm sure you're correct but once again I've reached the limits of
> > understanding. # I read back on the whole thread and see if I can
> > work out how resize a partition, no idea at the moment.
> >

> Yeah. That image file is now like a half empty bag of sugar with
> the top cut off. It is not a half sized bag. The partition is in
> a sense a container, and if you have left the part of it that
> defines how big it is,but removed half of it, then the computer
> will try and access parts that no longer exist.

I've spent a few days looking at this trying to understand what
you're telling me and i just don't get it. Would someone please
explain to me where i'm going wrong both in procedure and
understanding.

One of my problems is clearly understanding terminology used.

Druck talks about resizing the 'partition file'. I thought this was
the image containing two partitions used to burn onto an SD card. I
now don't think that's the case, so what is it and where is it?

Is any of the following correct?

My problem is that I end up with an SD card image with two
partitions, the second one is usually at least half empty. I presume
there is no point messing with the very small first partition?

I need to end the second partition earlier/shorter and change the
last part of the image file to unallocated.

When I've done that I can chop the end of the image file off.

So the bit Druck described the other day using
"truncate <imagefile> -s <size>"

Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the file?

If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done is
end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?

I'm dreading asking this but is that the bit Ian described and he and
TNP patiently talked/coached me through last week?

I build images a lot and I need whatever system I use to be
reasonably quick to perform. Ian's procedure is very time consuming
and if that's needed then this isn't really practical for my needs.

It's all been very worth it from a learning POV at the very least.

Thanks.

Cheers,

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:30:56 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 11:30 UTC

On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 21/09/2023 12:26, Bob Latham wrote:
>
>>>> You've truncated the image file, but you've not mentioned
>>>> resizing the partition sizes first. Without that step all you
>>>> will be doing is not writing some of partition to a new card,
>>>> and the last partition will still overlap the end, which things
>>>> do not like.
>>> I'm sure you're correct but once again I've reached the limits of
>>> understanding. # I read back on the whole thread and see if I can
>>> work out how resize a partition, no idea at the moment.
>>>
>
>> Yeah. That image file is now like a half empty bag of sugar with
>> the top cut off. It is not a half sized bag. The partition is in
>> a sense a container, and if you have left the part of it that
>> defines how big it is,but removed half of it, then the computer
>> will try and access parts that no longer exist.
>
> I've spent a few days looking at this trying to understand what
> you're telling me and i just don't get it. Would someone please
> explain to me where i'm going wrong both in procedure and
> understanding.
>
> One of my problems is clearly understanding terminology used.
A very common problem.

>
> Druck talks about resizing the 'partition file'. I thought this was
> the image containing two partitions used to burn onto an SD card. I
> now don't think that's the case, so what is it and where is it?
>
I think that is sloppy semantics. The thing is to resize the partiton
in the *image* file to allow the image file to be shrunk

>
> Is any of the following correct?
>
> My problem is that I end up with an SD card image with two
> partitions, the second one is usually at least half empty. I presume
> there is no point messing with the very small first partition?
>
Not really.

> I need to end the second partition earlier/shorter and change the
> last part of the image file to unallocated.
>
Or delete it entirely

> When I've done that I can chop the end of the image file off.
>
Oh I see. Yes. exactly so
] > So the bit Druck described the other day using
> "truncate <imagefile> -s <size>"
>
> Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the file?
>
Probably
Its a bit like a chainsaw, is truncate

> If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done is
> end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
>
Probably. You need 'parted' to do that. Or an equivalent windows program.

And it all gets fairly messy

That's why I am investigating using a file based backup system rather
than imaging the entire card. Sadly its very slow

> I'm dreading asking this but is that the bit Ian described and he and
> TNP patiently talked/coached me through last week?
>
I didnt touch on parted. I am not very good with it anyway, and if the
blind lead the blind, they both shall fall into the ditch...

And parted will only work ON the Pi..or another linux system, but that
does suggest another approach,

1. START with parted to shrink the partition on the PI to a bit more
than it needs to run
2. Then dd the entire card to an image file
3. Then truncate it.

Actually within Linux I found this

"If you wish to shrink an ext2 partition, first use resize2fs to shrink
the size of filesystem. Then you may use fdisk(8) to shrink the size of
the partition. When shrinking the size of the partition, make sure you
do not make it smaller than the new size of the ext2 filesystem! "

This is probably a way to go, to start with a smaller partition before
dd-ing. THEN you can truncate reasonably safely.

But I personally don't find *any* of these methods easy, or quick.

> I build images a lot and I need whatever system I use to be
> reasonably quick to perform. Ian's procedure is very time consuming
> and if that's needed then this isn't really practical for my needs.
>
Remind me again what you are trying to achieve...is it to replicate
safely onto SD cards of varying sizes the exact same image?
If so, time taken to prepare the image is not so serious.
And my system of copying the files over, then creating a smaller
'virtual disk image' which will expand to fill the card on booting, may
serve.

How this would/will work is this:

0/.Probably start by connecting a USB drive to the pi and using that as
a big scratch area
1/. Create an empty disk image on it by copying zeroes from /dev/zero to
a disk image file.
2/. use fdisk or parted to create the small VFAT and the larger ext4
partitions
3/. mount the two partitions as loopback devices
4/. COPY the /boot file system onto the vfat partition
5/. COPY the root filesystem onto the ext4 partition
6/. Label the two file systems identically with what is in /etc/fstab
7/. Optionally add scripts to the first boot to resize the partition to
the full card size.
You will now have a disk image less than the smallest card you ever want
to use, that you can dd at will onto any new SD card.

It will take a long time to prepare this image, but once you have it,
installing it will be very fast..

> It's all been very worth it from a learning POV at the very least.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob.
>

--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:53:11 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 11:53 UTC

I had another thought on this.
I am not sure if it would work, or not.
Let's say you have a clone image of the whole SD card on a desktop computer.

You should be able to mount its two partitions on that computer.
You then create a small empty disk image file and partition that with
whatever tools your OS has, labelling the new partitions to have the
*same id as the old ones*, and mount those two partitions as well.
You copy all the files in the cloned image partitions to the new image
partitions. This will be fast because you are not using the Pi to do it

And you have a new image file smaller than any SD card you ever intend
to use.

This should be scriptable.

--
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Bob Latham - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:57 UTC

In article <uep6lh$1b351$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
> > In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 21/09/2023 12:26, Bob Latham wrote:
> > Druck talks about resizing the 'partition file'. I thought this
> > was the image containing two partitions used to burn onto an SD
> > card. I now don't think that's the case, so what is it and where
> > is it?
> >
> The thing is to resize the partiton in the *image* file to allow
> the image file to be shrunk.

Yes, I think I'm with that.

> > Is any of the following correct?
> >
> > My problem is that I end up with an SD card image with two
> > partitions, the second one is usually at least half empty. I
> > presume there is no point messing with the very small first
> > partition?

> Not really.

> > I need to end the second partition earlier/shorter and change the
> > last part of the image file to unallocated.
> >
> Or delete it entirely

> > When I've done that I can chop the end of the image file off.
> >
> Oh I see. Yes. exactly so

:-) I got something right !

[Snip]

> Actually within Linux I found this

> "If you wish to shrink an ext2 partition, first use resize2fs to
> shrink the size of filesystem. Then you may use fdisk(8) to shrink
> the size of the partition. When shrinking the size of the
> partition, make sure you do not make it smaller than the new size
> of the ext2 filesystem! "

Wow, I think I understand that, it makes sense to me.

> This is probably a way to go, to start with a smaller partition
> before dd-ing. THEN you can truncate reasonably safely.

> But I personally don't find *any* of these methods easy, or quick.

> > I build images a lot and I need whatever system I use to be
> > reasonably quick to perform. Ian's procedure is very time
> > consuming and if that's needed then this isn't really practical
> > for my needs.
> >
> Remind me again what you are trying to achieve..

Building something from scratch is time consuming. So when I build a
music player I do it in stages:
1. OS
2. OS + SAMBA
3. OS + SAMBA + mpd
4. all the above plus Media player.

After building each stage I save the image to hard disc so that
should I wish to test a beta version of media player I install level
3 and then add the new media player. If I want to build a webserver
or/and a pi-hole then I use stage 2 already built.

Much faster and mistakes are fewer as stages have been proven.

The problem now is image size. I have several 4GB sd cards and they
all seem to be slightly different sizes. I have to build on the
smallest of the cards to get an image small enough to go onto any of
my cards. That means I'm fixed on one card.

My need is to make any the stages fit onto any of the 4GB cards and
even better if I could reduce the enormous amount of disc space these
images take up. Especially true as these images are 30% - 50% empty.

> is it to replicate safely onto SD cards of varying sizes the exact
> same image?

Yes, I suppose.

> If so,
> time taken to prepare the image is not so serious. And my system of
> copying the files over, then creating a smaller 'virtual disk
> image' which will expand to fill the card on booting, may serve.

> How this would/will work is this:

> 0/.Probably start by connecting a USB drive to the pi and using
> that as a big scratch area.

OK.

> 1/. Create an empty disk image on it by
> copying zeroes from /dev/zero to a disk image file.

Principle OK, doing it no chance.

> 2/. use fdisk or parted to create the small VFAT and the larger
> ext4 partitions.

Struggle.

> 3/. mount the two partitions as loopback devices

No understanding of loopback, I thought that was 128.0.0.1 or
something like that. :-)

> 4/. COPY the /boot
> file system onto the vfat partition
> 5/. COPY the root filesystem
> onto the ext4 partition

Is this some sort of format procedure?

> 6/. Label the two file systems identically
> with what is in /etc/fstab

I'm lost!

> 7/. Optionally add scripts to the first
> boot to resize the partition to the full card size. You will now
> have a disk image less than the smallest card you ever want to
> use, that you can dd at will onto any new SD card.

> It will take a long time to prepare this image, but once you have
> it, installing it will be very fast..

It is ample demonstration of how little I know.

Thanks.

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: chr...@mshome.net (Chris Elvidge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 16:00:06 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Chris Elvidge - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 15:00 UTC

On 17/09/2023 09:58, Bob Latham wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I build images for projects on 4GB cards so that I can save a
> completed image without using too much disc space. My problem comes
> when I try to burn a new card from the saved image. Often it will not
> fit because there are small differences in the size of the cards.
>
> Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
> that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
> could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob.
>

Can you edit a file in the ext4 partition of the SD card after burning
with raw image but before you put it in the SD slot of the Pi for first
boot?
If so, edit the firstboot file in usr/lib/raspberrypi-sys-mods/
directory of the second (ext4) partition.
Edit the line TARGET_END=$((ROOT_DEV_SIZE - 1))
Change the 1 to 1048576
That will make the automatic expansion of the root file system at first
boot to leave approx. 512Mb (0.5Gb) space at the end on the SD card. I.e
reduce the 4Gb down to 3.5Gb

Alternatively, do you have access to machine with a full version of
Raspbian? I.e. with graphical desktop.
Install gparted (using apt).
Put target SD card in USB adapter and insert into USB port. It will show
as /dev/sda if no other disks in USB.
Run gparted as root to shrink the second partition (ext4) of the SD card
(sda).

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT SELL LAND IN FLORIDA

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 16:45:15 +0100
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 by: Bob Latham - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 15:45 UTC

In article <uepitn$1d4bk$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
> On 17/09/2023 09:58, Bob Latham wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I build images for projects on 4GB cards so that I can save a
> > completed image without using too much disc space. My problem comes
> > when I try to burn a new card from the saved image. Often it will not
> > fit because there are small differences in the size of the cards.
> >
> > Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
> > that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
> > could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bob.
> >

> Can you edit a file in the ext4 partition of the SD card after
> burning with raw image but before you put it in the SD slot of the
> Pi for first boot?

The only way I could think of to be able to read/write files on the
SD card without the card running was possibly by plugging the card
into my Synology NAS (linux) via usb. It does list something but I
strongly suspect it's the first partition.

Even if I could I don't understand because the card has to have been
run to be created and saved but I'm sure I don't really understand
it.

> If so, edit the firstboot file in
> usr/lib/raspberrypi-sys-mods/ directory of the second (ext4)
> partition. Edit the line TARGET_END=$((ROOT_DEV_SIZE - 1)) Change
> the 1 to 1048576 That will make the automatic expansion of the root
> file system at first boot to leave approx. 512Mb (0.5Gb) space at
> the end on the SD card. I.e reduce the 4Gb down to 3.5Gb

> Alternatively, do you have access to machine with a full version of
> Raspbian? I.e. with graphical desktop. Install gparted (using
> apt). Put target SD card in USB adapter and insert into USB port.
> It will show as /dev/sda if no other disks in USB. Run gparted as
> root to shrink the second partition (ext4) of the SD card (sda).

I'm afraid I do not.

Thanks for the ideas.

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: new...@druck.org.uk (druck)
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Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 21:11:00 +0100
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 by: druck - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 20:11 UTC

On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 21/09/2023 12:26, Bob Latham wrote:

> Druck talks about resizing the 'partition file'. I thought this was
> the image containing two partitions used to burn onto an SD card. I
> now don't think that's the case, so what is it and where is it?

That is the case, but it is step 2 of a 2 part process.

Step 1 is to use a partition editor (gparted or parted) to resize the
ext4 partition in the image file, as described earlier in the thread.

> So the bit Druck described the other day using
> "truncate <imagefile> -s <size>"

That's step 2

> Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the file?

Yes

> If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done is
> end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?

Yes

---druck

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Bob Latham - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 08:21 UTC

In article <uespgl$234t2$1@dont-email.me>,
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
> On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
> > In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,

> > Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the
> > file?

> Yes

> > If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done
> > is end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?

> Yes

Thanks druck that is encouraging.

So I need to use either gparted or parted. Do they operate on an
image file (ready to be burnt to an sd card) or do they work on a
drive with working partitions (but obviously not the OS drive)?

Hope my terminology is good enough to be understood.

Thanks.

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:04:31 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:04 UTC

On 26/09/2023 09:21, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <uespgl$234t2$1@dont-email.me>,
> druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
>>> In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
>
>>> Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the
>>> file?
>
>> Yes
>
>>> If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done
>>> is end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
>
>> Yes
>
> Thanks druck that is encouraging.
>
> So I need to use either gparted or parted. Do they operate on an
> image file (ready to be burnt to an sd card) or do they work on a
> drive with working partitions (but obviously not the OS drive)?
>
Both.

I think you need to 'loop mount' the image to operate on it

You do need a working linux machine to utilise them though - they are
not windows tools

Booting a live CD/DVD/USB drive linux system will net you all you need
for the duration.

If you have an old machine you can install linux on it might help a lot
learning your way around the tools, or a Pi with a screen and keyboard
is just as good, ifd a tad slower

> Hope my terminology is good enough to be understood.
>
It is.

> Thanks.
>
> Bob.
>

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100
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 by: Bob Latham - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:56 UTC

In article <ueuhcf$2g1lp$3@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 26/09/2023 09:21, Bob Latham wrote:
> > In article <uespgl$234t2$1@dont-email.me>,
> > druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
> >> On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
> >>> In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
> >
> >>> Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the
> >>> file?
> >
> >> Yes
> >
> >>> If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done
> >>> is end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
> >
> >> Yes
> >
> > Thanks druck that is encouraging.
> >
> > So I need to use either gparted or parted. Do they operate on an
> > image file (ready to be burnt to an sd card) or do they work on a
> > drive with working partitions (but obviously not the OS drive)?
> >
> Both.

> I think you need to 'loop mount' the image to operate on it

loop mount ??????

> You do need a working linux machine to utilise them though - they
> are not windows tools

> Booting a live CD/DVD/USB drive linux system will net you all you
> need for the duration.

I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.

I'll look into a disc boot device of some sort. There's an old XP
machine upstairs which my wife has decided should go to the tip. If I
start using it now .......

Trying to get my head around all of this, I have this morning gone
through Ian's procedure again. It was easy the second time and
knowing what to expect. I was hoping I could see how Druck's chain
saw suggestion would help but I don't see it yet.

Interesting though..
Before Ian's procedure partition 2 was
3.4GB and 69% used = 2.34 GB data.

After Ian's procedure P2 was
3.0GB and 55% used = 1.65 GB data.

I don't see how all the data can be there?

To say I don't understand would be a big understatement.

Would the procedure be any faster if the files were just copied from
part2 to safe area and copied back to the new partition rather than
using Tar?

It's the tar up and down and the saving of the new image which is so
slow it makes it impractical.

Thanks.

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:41:26 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:41 UTC

On 26/09/2023 13:56, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <ueuhcf$2g1lp$3@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 26/09/2023 09:21, Bob Latham wrote:
>>> In article <uespgl$234t2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>>> In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>
>>>>> Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the
>>>>> file?
>>>
>>>> Yes
>>>
>>>>> If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done
>>>>> is end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
>>>
>>>> Yes
>>>
>>> Thanks druck that is encouraging.
>>>
>>> So I need to use either gparted or parted. Do they operate on an
>>> image file (ready to be burnt to an sd card) or do they work on a
>>> drive with working partitions (but obviously not the OS drive)?
>>>
>> Both.
>
>> I think you need to 'loop mount' the image to operate on it
>
> loop mount ??????
>
>> You do need a working linux machine to utilise them though - they
>> are not windows tools
>
>> Booting a live CD/DVD/USB drive linux system will net you all you
>> need for the duration.
>
> I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.
>
> I'll look into a disc boot device of some sort. There's an old XP
> machine upstairs which my wife has decided should go to the tip. If I
> start using it now .......
>
> Trying to get my head around all of this, I have this morning gone
> through Ian's procedure again. It was easy the second time and
> knowing what to expect. I was hoping I could see how Druck's chain
> saw suggestion would help but I don't see it yet.
>
> Interesting though..
> Before Ian's procedure partition 2 was
> 3.4GB and 69% used = 2.34 GB data.
>
> After Ian's procedure P2 was
> 3.0GB and 55% used = 1.65 GB data.
>
> I don't see how all the data can be there?
>
> To say I don't understand would be a big understatement.
>
> Would the procedure be any faster if the files were just copied from
> part2 to safe area and copied back to the new partition rather than
> using Tar?
>
Probably not, sadly

> It's the tar up and down and the saving of the new image which is so
> slow it makes it impractical.
>
Indeed. I let my rsync* backup run overnight.

*another way to copy files in this instance

> Thanks.
>
> Bob.
>

--
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:28:17 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Martin Gregorie - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:28 UTC

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:

> I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.
>
Take a look at eBay for used laptops, especially Lenovo ones: all Lenovos
will run Linux and have USB sockets and their Thinkpad series are solid
and well made machines:

- my first laptop was a Lenovo R61i which served me well for 12 years,
until its hard disk died in 2017. Its still usable as well as faster
since I replaced the dead disk with a 120GB SSD (by 2017 you couldn't
buy hard drives smaller than 500GB but the R61i hardware can't handle
disks bigger than 220GB, hence the small SSD which is still big enough
to holds everything that was on the dead disk.(spread sheet and word
processing programs, GIMP image editor, C and Java compilation systems,
Evolution mail client, Google Earth, ...
- Currently I'm using a Lenovo T440 that's at least 7 years old (I bought
it off eBay in 2017 (400GB HDD, 8GB RAM) and it is running Fedora Linux.
It also boots happily from a USB-connected HDD or CD disk. It does
everything I need and is fairly rugged 1600x900 with a decent screen, SD
card socket and a couple of USB sockets.

eBay has 'em from GBP 40.00 to GBP 120.00 as well as

> I'll look into a disc boot device of some sort. There's an old XP
> machine upstairs which my wife has decided should go to the tip. If I
> start using it now .......
>
Most modern desktops and laptops should boot from a USB CD drive, and if
the CD drive isn't read-only, most PCs should should download a bootable
Linux disk image and write it to a CD or USB stick, which should be at
least 30-40GB.

I hope the above gives you some useful ideas.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
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 by: Bob Latham - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 15:09 UTC

In article <ueupq1$2fgaa$1@dont-email.me>,
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:

> > I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.
> >
> Take a look at eBay for used laptops, especially Lenovo ones: all
> Lenovos will run Linux and have USB sockets and their Thinkpad
> series are solid and well made machines:

> - my first laptop was a Lenovo R61i which served me well for 12
> years, until its hard disk died in 2017. Its still usable as well
> as faster since I replaced the dead disk with a 120GB SSD (by
> 2017 you couldn't buy hard drives smaller than 500GB but the R61i
> hardware can't handle disks bigger than 220GB, hence the small
> SSD which is still big enough to holds everything that was on the
> dead disk.(spread sheet and word processing programs, GIMP image
> editor, C and Java compilation systems, Evolution mail client,
> Google Earth, ...
>
> - Currently I'm using a Lenovo T440 that's at least 7 years old (I
> bought it off eBay in 2017 (400GB HDD, 8GB RAM) and it is running
> Fedora Linux. It also boots happily from a USB-connected HDD or CD
> disk. It does everything I need and is fairly rugged 1600x900 with
> a decent screen, SD card socket and a couple of USB sockets.

> eBay has 'em from GBP 40.00 to GBP 120.00 as well as

> > I'll look into a disc boot device of some sort. There's an old XP
> > machine upstairs which my wife has decided should go to the tip.
> > If I start using it now .......
> >
> Most modern desktops and laptops should boot from a USB CD drive,
> and if the CD drive isn't read-only, most PCs should should
> download a bootable Linux disk image and write it to a CD or USB
> stick, which should be at least 30-40GB.

> I hope the above gives you some useful ideas.

Thanks Martin.

Cheers,

Bob.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 17:14:33 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 16:14 UTC

On 26/09/2023 15:28, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
>
>> I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.
>>
> Take a look at eBay for used laptops, especially Lenovo ones: all Lenovos
> will run Linux and have USB sockets and their Thinkpad series are solid
> and well made machines:
>
> - my first laptop was a Lenovo R61i which served me well for 12 years,
> until its hard disk died in 2017. Its still usable as well as faster
> since I replaced the dead disk with a 120GB SSD (by 2017 you couldn't
> buy hard drives smaller than 500GB but the R61i hardware can't handle
> disks bigger than 220GB, hence the small SSD which is still big enough
> to holds everything that was on the dead disk.(spread sheet and word
> processing programs, GIMP image editor, C and Java compilation systems,
> Evolution mail client, Google Earth, ...
>
> - Currently I'm using a Lenovo T440 that's at least 7 years old (I bought
> it off eBay in 2017 (400GB HDD, 8GB RAM) and it is running Fedora Linux.
> It also boots happily from a USB-connected HDD or CD disk. It does
> everything I need and is fairly rugged 1600x900 with a decent screen, SD
> card socket and a couple of USB sockets.
>
> eBay has 'em from GBP 40.00 to GBP 120.00 as well as
>
>> I'll look into a disc boot device of some sort. There's an old XP
>> machine upstairs which my wife has decided should go to the tip. If I
>> start using it now .......
>>
> Most modern desktops and laptops should boot from a USB CD drive, and if
> the CD drive isn't read-only, most PCs should should download a bootable
> Linux disk image and write it to a CD or USB stick, which should be at
> least 30-40GB.
>
> I hope the above gives you some useful ideas.
>
>
Id be very careful with some ebay laptops. Laptops unfortunately DIE. I
have a fully electrically functioning HP one except the case has turned
to rubble., I kid you not. The plastic has simply crumbled. It probably
biodegraded...I paid £200+ for a refurbished one with some sort of
guarantee at 'laptops direct'. Ive boght several things from them, all
refurbed or sale price and they have never sold me shit

Current best offering is this

https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/refrubished-asus-e210ma-celeron-n4020-4gb-64gb-11.6-inch-windows-11-laptop-a2-e210ma-gj181ws/version.asp

£119 is not to much to spend on a cheap lappie

--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

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From: bnl...@nowhere.com (Björn Lundin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 21:41:31 +0200
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 by: Björn Lundin - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:41 UTC

On 2023-09-26 16:28, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
>
>> I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.
>>
> Take a look at eBay for used laptops,

Or thin clients.
I bought a Hp T510 and a fujitsu Futuro s720 for less than 20 euros
CPU like a RPI 4 but AMD or Via, 4 gb RAM and a very small Sata flash
(16 GB). But runs well with 2.5" hdd via usb (or sata)

Runs Linux well, uses ubuntu. I also got a mini-mac, Core2Duo with 4 Gb
ram for that kind of money. (30 euros I think)

Also runs Ubuntu well

Those above are 64-bit.
I got some very cheap 32 bits as well - running debian

--
/Björn

Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi

<uf08gi$2tm17$4@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=7388&group=comp.sys.raspberry-pi#7388

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Limiting the capacity of SD cards for the pi
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 04:45:22 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 27 Sep 2023 03:45 UTC

On 26/09/2023 20:41, Björn Lundin wrote:
> On 2023-09-26 16:28, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.
>>>
>> Take a look at eBay for used laptops,
>
>
> Or thin clients.
> I bought a Hp T510 and a fujitsu Futuro s720 for less than 20 euros
> CPU like a RPI 4 but AMD or Via, 4 gb RAM and a very small Sata flash
> (16 GB). But runs well with 2.5" hdd via usb (or sata)
>
> Runs Linux well, uses ubuntu. I also got a mini-mac, Core2Duo with 4 Gb
> ram for that kind of money. (30 euros I think)
>
> Also runs Ubuntu well
>
> Those above are 64-bit.
> I got some very cheap 32 bits as well - running debian
>
>
>
Very good prices there.

I am not sure I would trust a machine that cheap.

--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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