On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 12:47:52 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

>In message <1hgtmi91gcufch1f1tg6jt3d6u9g7v739p@4ax.com> at Tue, 5 Dec
>2023 06:44:31, John <Man@the.keyboard> writes
>>On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 13:10:26 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>[]
>>> Paul
>>
>> You're a nice person. Or a nice machine running a personality overlay
>>or a nice alien hive-mind or whatever.
>>
>> You've helped millions and millions of us, many of whom have been
>>silently given help and advice we didn't even know we needed.
>>
>> Thank you, Merry Christmas and I wish you a wonderful New Year.
>>
>> J.
>Seconded (or n+1ed). Paul is IMO the top person in this 'group (and
>others I've seen) - knowledgeable, but willing to _explain_ to many of
>us mere mortals, and very patient when we don't get something (-:!

Obviously, AI run amuck! :-) No one human could know so much about so
many things. Add my thanks for everything you do!

P.S The best definition of an "expert" I've ever seen: A person who
knows more and more about less and less until they know absolutely
everything about nothing! Fortunately, Paul hasn't achieved "expert"
status yet. BG

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

In message <n5jumippe79f7a5d10qf53f9kgju6ne309@4ax.com> at Tue, 5 Dec
2023 08:22:18, pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> writes
>"Newyana2" <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> on Mon, 4 Dec 2023 07:57:46 -0500
>typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
>>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
>>
>>| Trouble is, if left or made optional, people - including me - will never
>>| switch. Even if the new way _is_ objectively better, people - including
>>| me - will say "I don't have time _now_"
>>
>> Objectively better? That borders on religious dogma.
>>I'm using the tool. As much as possible it should
[]
> Exactly.
> Computer is a tool. I want to be able to pick it up and do things
>with it. Not have to figure out how this new and improved version
>works.

So you turn it on, wait for the memory test, shove in the boot floppy...

Basically, there will always be change; often it's good, however much we
hate it because it's _different_.

I'm being devil's advocate here - writing this on a 7-32 machine, which
I actively sought out so I could continue using this software. But I do
realise that _some_ of the changes I didn't like at the time are
actually improvements.

There has certainly been a _slow down_ in improvements, in terms of
usability; for me it was probably 5-15 years ago. And yes, _some_
changes _do_ turn out _not_ to be improvements in the long run. But
knowing _which_ they are going to be isn't always easy! (Who would have
thought that, for example, people would use "mobile 'phones" actually
for talking, such a tiny proportion of the time! [Most users, that is:
the rare times I use mine, it _is_ for that.])
>
> I do my work with the software on _a_ computer. I do not work on
>the software for the computer. Microsoft (etc) are full of people who
>work on the computer's software.

And, as far as I'm concerned and many like me (including you), could
stop right now, at least if the hardware didn't keep developing and the
black hats keep working; but given they _are_ working on it, there's
always the _possibility_ they might improve it. And, that those
improvements will be something we don't like - almost certainly
initially, as we don't like _any_ change.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Why doesn't DOS ever say "EXCELLENT command or filename!"

In message <4vkumi1u5bnhtm4lms6qv4oav5eo00aq0s@4ax.com> at Tue, 5 Dec
2023 10:53:25, jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> writes
>On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 12:47:52 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
>wrote:
[]
>>Seconded (or n+1ed). Paul is IMO the top person in this 'group (and
>>others I've seen) - knowledgeable, but willing to _explain_ to many of
>>us mere mortals, and very patient when we don't get something (-:!
>
>Obviously, AI run amuck! :-) No one human could know so much about so
>many things. Add my thanks for everything you do!
>
>P.S The best definition of an "expert" I've ever seen: A person who
>knows more and more about less and less until they know absolutely
>everything about nothing! Fortunately, Paul hasn't achieved "expert"
>status yet. BG
>
> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
The other one, of course, is a former drip under pressure: a spurt is a
drip under pressure, and ex- means ... Definitely not Paul.

I have kept my interests/skillset broad (but not that deep except in
some very nerdy/fandom areas); my advice is not to do that, at least in
a technical frame, as managers don't know what to do with you - they
like to pigeonhole you. (And the fact that I could often get them out of
holes because I knew something outside my pigeonhole didn't endear me to
them.) A generalist will usually find employment, so that's a plus, but
it won't be _very_ well paid.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Why doesn't DOS ever say "EXCELLENT command or filename!"

"pyotr filipivich" <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote

| On my shopping list when I get the Temporal Transmorgifyer working
| is to pick up several XP-64 boxes, so that as one dies, I have
| replacements.
| And several other items they don't make anymore.
|

I actually picked up a couple of spare motherboards,
but by the time I got around to buying spare CPUs
they were off the market. At the time I got an Asus MB
and an AMD 3.3 GHz 8 core for about $65 each. Costs
have gone way up since then.

So if my motherboard dies I'm ready, but it seems
unlikely that the MB would go without damaging the CPU.

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> on Tue, 5 Dec 2023 17:02:01 +0000
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
>
>> I do my work with the software on _a_ computer. I do not work on
>>the software for the computer. Microsoft (etc) are full of people who
>>work on the computer's software.
>
>And, as far as I'm concerned and many like me (including you), could
>stop right now, at least if the hardware didn't keep developing and the
>black hats keep working; but given they _are_ working on it, there's
>always the _possibility_ they might improve it. And, that those
>improvements will be something we don't like - almost certainly
>initially, as we don't like _any_ change.

Which is why I say - I do not really care what is going on "under
the hood" so to speak {speed is good}, but the fewer changes to the
interface, the happier I'll be.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On 12/5/2023 2:34 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
> "pyotr filipivich" <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote
>
> | On my shopping list when I get the Temporal Transmorgifyer working
> | is to pick up several XP-64 boxes, so that as one dies, I have
> | replacements.
> | And several other items they don't make anymore.
> |
>
> I actually picked up a couple of spare motherboards,
> but by the time I got around to buying spare CPUs
> they were off the market. At the time I got an Asus MB
> and an AMD 3.3 GHz 8 core for about $65 each. Costs
> have gone way up since then.
>
> So if my motherboard dies I'm ready, but it seems
> unlikely that the MB would go without damaging the CPU.
>
>

That depends.

In fact, based on my small sampling, RAM and CPU tend to survive.

When your Bestec 200W PSU on an eMachine blew, it killed keyboard,
mouse, HDD, CD drive, motherboard. CPU and RAM were fine (regulators,
help protect some of the silicon onboard).

I took the E8400 out of my dead Core2 motherboard and put
it in the Optiplex 780, and it was 100% functional. It just
didn't give an ounce more performance. (The Dell doesn't
have all the RAM dividers enabled. A retail motherboard
has much better control over stuff like that.) The only application
where an E8400 beats an E7500, is when you're using 7ZIP to do
compression. It can be 50% faster then. But who would have the
patience to wait for an E8400 to compress anything.

*******

Costs have come down a slight bit, but not enough to cover
the inflationary trends.

For an entry level PC, you want a CPU with integrated graphics.
That reduces your overall costs. It's not going to be a gamer PC
(unless you like The SIMS). If you get the equivalent of a graphics
card, plus a cooler in the box, that helps reduce overall project cost.
Some of the adverts for cheaper processors (quad core), happen to use
bad English when describing the "missing" integrated graphics.

AMD Ryzen 5600G Zen3 6-Core 3.9/4.4 GHz AM4 65W (integrated AMD Vega7 Graphics) (boxed with aluminum Wraith Stealth cooler) $132
https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-5600g-ryzen-5-5000-g-series/p/N82E16819113683

AMD Ryzen 5700G Zen3 8-Core 3.8/4.6 GHz AM4 65W (integrated AMD Vega8 Graphics) (boxed with aluminum Wraith Stealth cooler) $176
https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-ryzen-7-5000-g-series/p/N82E16819113682

The ??? 5300G quad core launched at ??? 4.0/4.2 Vega6 (Now it is like it never existed)
The $132 5600G processor launched at $299
The $176 5700G processor launched at $359

A few cheap motherboards were issued, to help clean up the remaining AM4 stock.
That's a little more than I paid for a $65 Asrock years ago. Notice the
top VCore components, didn't even get a heatsink. And a 7W chip has a
3W heatsink plopped on top. Still, a low end processor won't tax a thing like this.

ASRock B550M Pro SE AM4 DDR4 SATA 6Gb/s 1 PCIe 4.0 x16 Micro ATX $75
https://www.newegg.com/asrock-b550m-pro-se/p/N82E16813162138

*******

Intel Core i3-10100 Quad-Core 3.6/4.3 GHz LGA1200 65W (UHD Graphics 630) (boxed with aluminum cooler) $110
https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i3-10100-core-i3-10th-gen/p/N82E16819118138

(Intel heatsink/fan that is included in box - plastic peg mount)
https://c1.neweggimages.com/itemreivewimages/reviewimg1920/bf7dbba6c4a04aafa05fa33d2f57c07b.jpg

When the 10100 was in town, there were two in stock. The next
month, there were zero in stock for the month. These companies
do not want to cannibalize their own sales with the perfectly
adequate materials. Guess what ? I bought AMD :-) That's what
being a sleaze-ball nets you.

When I went to the computer store, there were *stacks* of AMD processors.
AMD must have cut them some kind of sweet deal on paying for that stock.
They might only pay for it, when a sale is made or something. Otherwise,
the pile of AMD stuff was too hard to explain. The computer store owner
is such a cheapskate, having actual stock is a mystery concept. Since
the disk drive companies won't cut him any deals, there aren't any hard drives.
Only a few 1TB ones for $60 or so. If you wanted a 22TB drive for backups,
you-can-go-suck-it. So when the guy has stock, it's a miracle or an Act of God
or something. A lot of the bad feelings, could have been causes by the
"Chia interval" (Chia mining on hard drives, caused price fluctuations and
shortages, and computer store owners could lose money on the fluctuations,
like when the bottom suddenly dropped out.)

It wasn't always like that. They used to have 80-100 hard drives in the
drive bay, at one time. And that included a good mix of big and small ones.

Paul