This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your
chosen charity.
Tbird 115, latest.
It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my
mouse over it.
I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from
the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs appear ok.
Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
Things I've tried;
System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot,
change screen display options.
I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a
re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this
problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:

> Things I've tried;
> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot,
> change screen display options.
> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a
> re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this
> problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.

You could kill-off any existing thunderbird processes (as it sounds like
you've been doing already) start in safe mode by

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe" -safe-mode

or use profile manager to create a blank profile (without deleting your
current one) by

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe" -profilemanager

On 10/14/23 08:13 AM, this is what Ed Cryer wrote:
> This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
> I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your chosen charity.
>
> Tbird 115, latest.
> It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my mouse over it.
> I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
> There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new
> message", their GUIs appear ok.
>
> Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
>
> Things I've tried;
> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a re-install; but it strikes me that others must have
> been hit by this problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
Maybe it's off the screen?

Press and hold the Win key and tap the arrow keys to navigate the window into view. You can also right-click the Windows
taskbar and "Cascade windows" or "Show windows stacked".

https://www.wikihow.com/Bring-an-Off-Screen-Window-Back-on-Windows
--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

Big Al wrote:
> On 10/14/23 08:13 AM, this is what Ed Cryer wrote:
>> This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
>> I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your
>> chosen charity.
>>
>> Tbird 115, latest.
>> It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my
>> mouse over it.
>> I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
>> There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select
>> from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs
>> appear ok.
>>
>> Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
>>
>> Things I've tried;
>> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold
>> reboot, change screen display options.
>> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a
>> re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this
>> problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
> Maybe it's off the screen?
>
> Press and hold the Win key and tap the arrow keys to navigate the window
> into view. You can also right-click the Windows taskbar and "Cascade
> windows" or "Show windows stacked".
>
> https://www.wikihow.com/Bring-an-Off-Screen-Window-Back-on-Windows
Hey, Al, you're the greatest. You led me straight to it, and made me
feel like the world's biggest idiot.
I read your post and realised straight away what was afoot.
I have a dual monitor, kept switched off for ages, controlled by
DisplayFusion which inserts an icon top right corner to switch displays
between monitors. I'd completely forgotten about it.
Well, man, what online charity do you pick?
Ed

On 10/14/2023 9:26 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Big Al wrote:
>> On 10/14/23 08:13 AM, this is what Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
>>> I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your chosen charity.
>>>
>>> Tbird 115, latest.
>>> It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my mouse over it.
>>> I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
>>> There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs appear ok.
>>>
>>> Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
>>>
>>> Things I've tried;
>>> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
>>> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Maybe it's off the screen?
>>
>> Press and hold the Win key and tap the arrow keys to navigate the window into view. You can also right-click the Windows taskbar and "Cascade windows" or "Show windows stacked".
>>
>> https://www.wikihow.com/Bring-an-Off-Screen-Window-Back-on-Windows
>
> Hey, Al, you're the greatest. You led me straight to it, and made me feel like the world's biggest idiot.
> I read your post and realised straight away what was afoot.
> I have a dual monitor, kept switched off for ages, controlled by DisplayFusion which inserts an icon top right corner to switch displays between monitors. I'd completely forgotten about it.
>
> Well, man, what online charity do you pick?
>
> Ed
>

Now you know why we like screen shots :-)

snippingtool.exe # (capture whole screen, save, examine with Photos)

Paul

Paul wrote:
> On 10/14/2023 9:26 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> Big Al wrote:
>>> On 10/14/23 08:13 AM, this is what Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>> This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
>>>> I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your chosen charity.
>>>>
>>>> Tbird 115, latest.
>>>> It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my mouse over it.
>>>> I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
>>>> There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs appear ok.
>>>>
>>>> Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
>>>>
>>>> Things I've tried;
>>>> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
>>>> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Maybe it's off the screen?
>>>
>>> Press and hold the Win key and tap the arrow keys to navigate the window into view. You can also right-click the Windows taskbar and "Cascade windows" or "Show windows stacked".
>>>
>>> https://www.wikihow.com/Bring-an-Off-Screen-Window-Back-on-Windows
>>
>> Hey, Al, you're the greatest. You led me straight to it, and made me feel like the world's biggest idiot.
>> I read your post and realised straight away what was afoot.
>> I have a dual monitor, kept switched off for ages, controlled by DisplayFusion which inserts an icon top right corner to switch displays between monitors. I'd completely forgotten about it.
>>
>> Well, man, what online charity do you pick?
>>
>> Ed
>>
>
> Now you know why we like screen shots :-)
>
> snippingtool.exe # (capture whole screen, save, examine with Photos)
>
> Paul
>
Yes, I have occasionally used those. In this case, however, I can't see
how a screenshot would have added to the words I used. Except, maybe,to
have jogged my memory about the second monitor.
BTW, I notice you have a user-agent called "Ratcatcher". Is it any good?
Worth a try?
Ed

On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> On 10/14/2023 9:26 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>> On 10/14/23 08:13 AM, this is what Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>>> This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
>>>>> I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your chosen charity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tbird 115, latest.
>>>>> It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my mouse over it.
>>>>> I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
>>>>> There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs appear ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Things I've tried;
>>>>> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
>>>>> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's off the screen?
>>>>
>>>> Press and hold the Win key and tap the arrow keys to navigate the window into view. You can also right-click the Windows taskbar and "Cascade windows" or "Show windows stacked".
>>>>
>>>> https://www.wikihow.com/Bring-an-Off-Screen-Window-Back-on-Windows
>>>
>>> Hey, Al, you're the greatest. You led me straight to it, and made me feel like the world's biggest idiot.
>>> I read your post and realised straight away what was afoot.
>>> I have a dual monitor, kept switched off for ages, controlled by DisplayFusion which inserts an icon top right corner to switch displays between monitors. I'd completely forgotten about it.
>>>
>>> Well, man, what online charity do you pick?
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>
>> Now you know why we like screen shots :-)
>>
>>     snippingtool.exe      # (capture whole screen, save, examine with Photos)
>>
>>    Paul
>>
>
> Yes, I have occasionally used those. In this case, however, I can't see how a screenshot would have added to the words I used. Except, maybe,to have jogged my memory about the second monitor.
>
> BTW, I notice you have a user-agent called "Ratcatcher". Is it any good? Worth a try?
>
> Ed

LOL.

It's just a custom value via "general.useragent.override" :-)

I only did this, for the benefit of people who are all the time
checking the UserAgent field :-) You can tell from the version
number, it's a Thunderbird. I have upgraded the Thunderbird, but
just left the UserAgent thing in the prefs. At one time, I was
running this version, and put in the Ratcatcher string.

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/2.0.0.23/win32/en-US/

*******

The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
the areas that don't have data.

+------------++---------+
| || |
| || |
| |+---------+
| | <=== this area filled with a solid colour
+------------+

Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.

Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection".
Which is a false positive if it happens.

And don't worry -- all that fancy tech is defeated by poorly written
drivers. I have a problem here with my other machine, where the
driver puts the signal on the wrong port. And it does not matter
that impedance sensing is present, when the software does stupid stuff.
It used to be, when I booted the computer, the screen would be
black, because... the signal was on a different connector.
A connector with no monitor on it. And no capacitance either.
It was just a "driver preference" to put the
signal on the unoccupied connector. The driver "likes" the HDMI connector!

Paul

On 2023-10-15 13:13, Paul wrote:
> On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> Paul wrote:

> *******
>
> The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
> has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
> the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
> the areas that don't have data.
>
> +------------++---------+
> | || |
> | || |
> | |+---------+
> | | <=== this area filled with a solid colour
> +------------+
>
> Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
> of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
> It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
>
> Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
> if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
> there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
> a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
> the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
> the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
> DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
> unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection".
> Which is a false positive if it happens.

Gosh.

Being digital connectors, why don't they use a digital protocol for
interrogating the monitor? There is a protocol that tells the card what
video resolution parameters the monitor support. EDID.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Display_Identification_Data

>
> And don't worry -- all that fancy tech is defeated by poorly written
> drivers. I have a problem here with my other machine, where the
> driver puts the signal on the wrong port. And it does not matter
> that impedance sensing is present, when the software does stupid stuff.
> It used to be, when I booted the computer, the screen would be
> black, because... the signal was on a different connector.
> A connector with no monitor on it. And no capacitance either.
> It was just a "driver preference" to put the
> signal on the unoccupied connector. The driver "likes" the HDMI connector!
>
> Paul

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Paul wrote:
> On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>> On 10/14/2023 9:26 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>> On 10/14/23 08:13 AM, this is what Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>>>> This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
>>>>>> I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your chosen charity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tbird 115, latest.
>>>>>> It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my mouse over it.
>>>>>> I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
>>>>>> There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs appear ok.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Things I've tried;
>>>>>> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
>>>>>> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it's off the screen?
>>>>>
>>>>> Press and hold the Win key and tap the arrow keys to navigate the window into view. You can also right-click the Windows taskbar and "Cascade windows" or "Show windows stacked".
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.wikihow.com/Bring-an-Off-Screen-Window-Back-on-Windows
>>>>
>>>> Hey, Al, you're the greatest. You led me straight to it, and made me feel like the world's biggest idiot.
>>>> I read your post and realised straight away what was afoot.
>>>> I have a dual monitor, kept switched off for ages, controlled by DisplayFusion which inserts an icon top right corner to switch displays between monitors. I'd completely forgotten about it.
>>>>
>>>> Well, man, what online charity do you pick?
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>
>>> Now you know why we like screen shots :-)
>>>
>>>     snippingtool.exe      # (capture whole screen, save, examine with Photos)
>>>
>>>    Paul
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I have occasionally used those. In this case, however, I can't see how a screenshot would have added to the words I used. Except, maybe,to have jogged my memory about the second monitor.
>>
>> BTW, I notice you have a user-agent called "Ratcatcher". Is it any good? Worth a try?
>>
>> Ed
>
> LOL.
>
> It's just a custom value via "general.useragent.override" :-)
>
> I only did this, for the benefit of people who are all the time
> checking the UserAgent field :-) You can tell from the version
> number, it's a Thunderbird. I have upgraded the Thunderbird, but
> just left the UserAgent thing in the prefs. At one time, I was
> running this version, and put in the Ratcatcher string.
>
> http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/2.0.0.23/win32/en-US/
>
> *******
>
> The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
> has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
> the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
> the areas that don't have data.
>
> +------------++---------+
> | || |
> | || |
> | |+---------+
> | | <=== this area filled with a solid colour
> +------------+
>
> Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
> of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
> It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
>
> Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
> if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
> there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
> a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
> the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
> the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
> DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
> unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection".
> Which is a false positive if it happens.
>
> And don't worry -- all that fancy tech is defeated by poorly written
> drivers. I have a problem here with my other machine, where the
> driver puts the signal on the wrong port. And it does not matter
> that impedance sensing is present, when the software does stupid stuff.
> It used to be, when I booted the computer, the screen would be
> black, because... the signal was on a different connector.
> A connector with no monitor on it. And no capacitance either.
> It was just a "driver preference" to put the
> signal on the unoccupied connector. The driver "likes" the HDMI connector!
>
> Paul
I used to think that E-S's "A Noiseless Patient Spider" was a pop-group
from the 1970s, until I found out that it was a poem by Walt Whitman;
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45473/a-noiseless-patient-spider
Your "Ratcatcher" is a film;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratcatcher_(film)
If you want another name, look here;
https://www.cracked.com/article_15118_the-25-most-ridiculous-band-names-in-rock-history.html
Ed

On 10/15/2023 8:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-10-15 13:13, Paul wrote:
>> On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> Paul wrote:
>
>
>> *******
>>
>> The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
>> has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
>> the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
>> the areas that don't have data.
>>
>>        +------------++---------+
>>        |            ||         |
>>        |            ||         |
>>        |            |+---------+
>>        |            |           <=== this area filled with a solid colour
>>        +------------+
>>
>> Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
>> of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
>> It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
>>
>> Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
>> if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
>> there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
>> a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
>> the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
>> the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
>> DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
>> unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection".
>> Which is a false positive if it happens.
>
> Gosh.
>
> Being digital connectors, why don't they use a digital protocol for interrogating the monitor? There is a protocol that tells the card what video resolution parameters the monitor support. EDID.

Not all devices have an EDID. You have to be ready for those.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/tTwkhrr0/no-edid-on-right-hand-monitor.gif

This is the right hand monitor, defaults to 1024x768, or it should do that.
Its existence depends solely on impedance detection.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/W3dLNHDx/fake-monitor-for-vid-card.gif

Paul

On 2023-10-15 23:47, Paul wrote:
> On 10/15/2023 8:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-10-15 13:13, Paul wrote:
>>> On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
>>> has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
>>> the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
>>> the areas that don't have data.
>>>
>>>        +------------++---------+
>>>        |            ||         |
>>>        |            ||         |
>>>        |            |+---------+
>>>        |            |           <=== this area filled with a solid colour
>>>        +------------+
>>>
>>> Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
>>> of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
>>> It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
>>>
>>> Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
>>> if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
>>> there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
>>> a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
>>> the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
>>> the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
>>> DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
>>> unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection".
>>> Which is a false positive if it happens.
>>
>> Gosh.
>>
>> Being digital connectors, why don't they use a digital protocol for interrogating the monitor? There is a protocol that tells the card what video resolution parameters the monitor support. EDID.
>
> Not all devices have an EDID. You have to be ready for those.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/tTwkhrr0/no-edid-on-right-hand-monitor.gif
>
> This is the right hand monitor, defaults to 1024x768, or it should do that.
> Its existence depends solely on impedance detection.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/W3dLNHDx/fake-monitor-for-vid-card.gif

In the XXI century.. Gosh :-(

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Paul wrote:
> On 10/15/2023 8:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-10-15 13:13, Paul wrote:
>>> On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
>>> has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
>>> the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
>>> the areas that don't have data.
>>>
>>>        +------------++---------+
>>>        |            ||         |
>>>        |            ||         |
>>>        |            |+---------+
>>>        |            |           <=== this area filled with a solid colour
>>>        +------------+
>>>
>>> Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
>>> of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
>>> It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
>>>
>>> Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
>>> if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
>>> there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
>>> a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
>>> the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
>>> the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
>>> DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
>>> unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection".
>>> Which is a false positive if it happens.
>>
>> Gosh.
>>
>> Being digital connectors, why don't they use a digital protocol for interrogating the monitor? There is a protocol that tells the card what video resolution parameters the monitor support. EDID.
>
> Not all devices have an EDID. You have to be ready for those.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/tTwkhrr0/no-edid-on-right-hand-monitor.gif
>
> This is the right hand monitor, defaults to 1024x768, or it should do that.
> Its existence depends solely on impedance detection.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/W3dLNHDx/fake-monitor-for-vid-card.gif
>
> Paul
I've taken a screenshot; and I can't detect anything at all.
Can you?
Monitor 1 is on the right.
https://tinyurl.com/2xde3jfq
Ed

On 10/16/2023 8:02 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> On 10/15/2023 8:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-10-15 13:13, Paul wrote:
>>>> On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>>> Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> *******
>>>>
>>>> The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
>>>> has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
>>>> the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
>>>> the areas that don't have data.
>>>>
>>>>         +------------++---------+
>>>>         |            ||         |
>>>>         |            ||         |
>>>>         |            |+---------+
>>>>         |            |           <=== this area filled with a solid colour
>>>>         +------------+
>>>>
>>>> Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
>>>> of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
>>>> It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
>>>>
>>>> Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
>>>> if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
>>>> there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
>>>> a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
>>>> the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
>>>> the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
>>>> DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
>>>> unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection".
>>>> Which is a false positive if it happens.
>>>
>>> Gosh.
>>>
>>> Being digital connectors, why don't they use a digital protocol for interrogating the monitor? There is a protocol that tells the card what video resolution parameters the monitor support. EDID.
>>
>> Not all devices have an EDID. You have to be ready for those.
>>
>>     [Picture]
>>
>>      https://i.postimg.cc/tTwkhrr0/no-edid-on-right-hand-monitor.gif
>>
>> This is the right hand monitor, defaults to 1024x768, or it should do that.
>> Its existence depends solely on impedance detection.
>>
>>     [Picture]
>>
>>      https://i.postimg.cc/W3dLNHDx/fake-monitor-for-vid-card.gif
>>
>>     Paul
>
> I've taken a screenshot; and I can't detect anything at all.
> Can you?
> Monitor 1 is on the right.
> https://tinyurl.com/2xde3jfq
>
> Ed

Aha! :-)

A bar bet is afoot.

"I bet you can't do this, Paul"

My guess is:

1) Change the vertical alignment on the two monitors,
causing a black bar fill to appear.

2) Set the Task Bar to descend, when the mouse is out
of the neighbourhood.

3) The two background images ? I didn't know you could do that.
Maybe as part of the bar bet, I would have to splice two
images side by side, and then right-click and Load As Background.

That's certainly an unconventional setup. Neat.
Kinda a RatCatcher after a fashion.

Here's mine, but I've been unable to load the background
independently on the two monitors. My monitors, the alignment
is shifted to an extreme extent, and some other alignment might
work better as far as "logical surfaces" are concerned. When
you do that, the mouse seems to snag on the way between monitors.
The mouse has to "fly at the right altitude", to pass to the second monitor.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/c4j1H7nr/funny-dual-monitor-tricks.gif

By looking at your screenshot, you can check for things that
have migrated where you did not expect.

As an example of this sort of thing, I was trying to use a
tool on Linux today, the program would start, but the window
for it, refused to appear. Checking xwininfo, there is
the window sitting there, big as buttons in the listing,
and it says "unMapped". And no amount of whipping it, made
a bit of difference, and I had to give up. I got a "window test"
application, and of course, it behaves itself like a perfect gentleman.

The screenshot in that case, of course the item was not hiding anywhere.
It's just bashful.

And when the window won't appear, the processor was railed on one core,
so the "UnMapped" window is doing battle inside the machine :-) You could
hear the clank of swords.

Paul

On 14/10/2023 14:13, Ed Cryer wrote:
> This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
> I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your
> chosen charity.
>
> Tbird 115, latest.
> It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my
> mouse over it.
> I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
> There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from
> the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs appear ok.
>
> Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
>
> Things I've tried;
> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot,
> change screen display options.
> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a
> re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this
> problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed
off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows
partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time
before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade
Thunderbird anymore.

Fokke

On 2023-10-17 20:48, Fokke Nauta wrote:
> On 14/10/2023 14:13, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
>> I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your
>> chosen charity.
>>
>> Tbird 115, latest.
>> It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my
>> mouse over it.
>> I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
>> There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select
>> from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs
>> appear ok.
>>
>> Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
>>
>> Things I've tried;
>> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold
>> reboot, change screen display options.
>> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a
>> re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this
>> problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
> Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed
> off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows
> partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time
> before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade
> Thunderbird anymore.

You can never say never. :-P

For example, a few years in the future some mail provider might make
changes to the protocol, and old mail programs cease to work in them.

Far fetched?

Gmail did that, demanding people to use Oauth2. And other providers
followed suit.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-10-17 20:48, Fokke Nauta wrote:
[...]

> > Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed
> > off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows
> > partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time
> > before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade
> > Thunderbird anymore.
>
> You can never say never. :-P
>
> For example, a few years in the future some mail provider might make
> changes to the protocol, and old mail programs cease to work in them.
>
> Far fetched?
>
> Gmail did that, demanding people to use Oauth2. And other providers
> followed suit.

I get and agree with your point (and Fokke's), but you can still use
Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age' (60.9.0)
Thunderbird, for three Gmail accounts [1].

To Fokke: See my earlier post on how to stop Thunderbird nagging about
available updates (thread "Thunderbird version 115 has arrived! (And it
sucks!)", "Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:46:16 -0000").

[1] I could tell you *why* I don't use Oauth2, but then I would have to
kill you! :-)

Fokke Nauta wrote:
> On 14/10/2023 14:13, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
>> I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your
>> chosen charity.
>>
>> Tbird 115, latest.
>> It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my
>> mouse over it.
>> I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
>> There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select
>> from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs
>> appear ok.
>>
>> Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
>>
>> Things I've tried;
>> System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold
>> reboot, change screen display options.
>> I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a
>> re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this
>> problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
> Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed
> off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows
> partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time
> before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade
> Thunderbird anymore.
>
> Fokke
It's a pity you had to do a full restore like that. Lots of wasted time.
You can delete Tbird and it leaves all your profile data; install an
earlier version and all your stuff is still there.
Ed

On 2023-10-18 12:06, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-10-17 20:48, Fokke Nauta wrote:
> [...]
>
>>> Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed
>>> off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows
>>> partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time
>>> before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade
>>> Thunderbird anymore.
>>
>> You can never say never. :-P
>>
>> For example, a few years in the future some mail provider might make
>> changes to the protocol, and old mail programs cease to work in them.
>>
>> Far fetched?
>>
>> Gmail did that, demanding people to use Oauth2. And other providers
>> followed suit.
>
> I get and agree with your point (and Fokke's), but you can still use
> Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age' (60.9.0)
> Thunderbird, for three Gmail accounts [1].

I know it is possible, I do so with Alpine. But I have to do some magic.

>
> To Fokke: See my earlier post on how to stop Thunderbird nagging about
> available updates (thread "Thunderbird version 115 has arrived! (And it
> sucks!)", "Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:46:16 -0000").
>
> [1] I could tell you *why* I don't use Oauth2, but then I would have to
> kill you! :-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 20:48:53 +0200, Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl>
wrote:

>Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed
>off.

Just curious. Why do you say that? I'm not having any problems with it
here (running under the latest version of Windows 11 Professional).

On 18/10/2023 12:06, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-10-17 20:48, Fokke Nauta wrote:
> [...]
>
>>> Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed
>>> off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows
>>> partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time
>>> before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade
>>> Thunderbird anymore.
>>
>> You can never say never. :-P
>>
>> For example, a few years in the future some mail provider might make
>> changes to the protocol, and old mail programs cease to work in them.
>>
>> Far fetched?
>>
>> Gmail did that, demanding people to use Oauth2. And other providers
>> followed suit.
>
> I get and agree with your point (and Fokke's), but you can still use
> Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age' (60.9.0)
> Thunderbird, for three Gmail accounts [1].
>
> To Fokke: See my earlier post on how to stop Thunderbird nagging about
> available updates (thread "Thunderbird version 115 has arrived! (And it
> sucks!)", "Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:46:16 -0000").

Thanks, Frank.
But I can't find your earlier post.

>
> [1] I could tell you *why* I don't use Oauth2, but then I would have to
> kill you! :-)

Fokke Nauta wrote:
> On 18/10/2023 12:06, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>>    To Fokke: See my earlier post on how to stop Thunderbird nagging about
>> available updates (thread "Thunderbird version 115 has arrived!  (And it
>> sucks!)", "Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:46:16 -0000").
>
> Thanks, Frank.
> But I can't find your earlier post.
>
I get no nags in 102, with these settings;
Automatically install updates
but
Use a background service to install updates
When I look in Help/ About Thunderbird, I see 115 given as a choice.
Ed

Fokke Nauta <usenet@solfon.nl> wrote:
> On 18/10/2023 12:06, Frank Slootweg wrote:
[...]

> > To Fokke: See my earlier post on how to stop Thunderbird nagging about
> > available updates (thread "Thunderbird version 115 has arrived! (And it
> > sucks!)", "Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:46:16 -0000").
>
> Thanks, Frank.
> But I can't find your earlier post.

Message-ID: <ug9ie7.h20.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

or

<http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=169773834000>

(Please do not use (unless you have to)
<http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cug9ie7.h20.1%40ID-201911.user.individual.net%3E>
as it puts more load on Howard's server.)

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> you can still use Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age'
> (60.9.0) Thunderbird

There are those who resist giving google their phone number, in those
cases I believe they can't create an app-specific password for IMAP/SMTP
access (that's up to them, presumably the find an alternate provider).

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > you can still use Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age'
> > (60.9.0) Thunderbird
>
> There are those who resist giving google their phone number, in those
> cases I believe they can't create an app-specific password for IMAP/SMTP
> access (that's up to them, presumably the find an alternate provider).

For 2-Step Verification (2SV) [1], you can still use 'Backup codes' in
the "Available seconds step' section. With 2SV turned on, you can still
create 'App passwords' [2].

[1] Google Account -> Security -> How you sign in to Google

[2] But you now have to search/hunt for them ('Search Google Account'
box or 'Review security tips'.

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
> >> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>>> you can still use Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age'
>>> (60.9.0) Thunderbird
>>
>> There are those who resist giving google their phone number, in those
>> cases I believe they can't create an app-specific password for IMAP/SMTP
>> access (that's up to them, presumably the find an alternate provider).
>
> For 2-Step Verification (2SV) [1], you can still use 'Backup codes' in
> the "Available seconds step' section.

but "To use backup codes, 2-Step Verification must be on"
so that isn't an alternative for those not wanting to give google a
phone number.

> With 2SV turned on, you can still
> create 'App passwords' [2].

I've not looked into it since enabling oAuth2, but at that time, you had
to give them a phone number in order to enable 2SV, in order to get the
app-specific passwords ... and for some people, they didn't want to give
google a phone number. Also if you disable 2SV it invalidates all app
passwords you created while it was enabled.

So I think it does come down to "no phone number, no access to gmail
except via web browser"