January, 2024

currently I have
a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive
a Seagate 4 terabyte external desktop drive
a Fantom 2 tb external
a WD 1/2T external

and about 1/2 Terabyte free, cumulative, of all drives

I am looking to add more space and wondering --

What is the most reliable external drive brand?

jack

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 10:31:23 -0500, jackpatton@astraweb.com wrote:

>January, 2024
>
>currently I have
>a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive
>a Seagate 4 terabyte external desktop drive
>a Fantom 2 tb external
>a WD 1/2T external
>
>and about 1/2 Terabyte free, cumulative, of all drives
>
>I am looking to add more space and wondering --
>
>What is the most reliable external drive brand?

As far as I'm concerned, you should not be concerned with reliable
external drive brands. You should be concerned with reliable drive
brands. Instead of buying an external drive, it's often wise to buy an
internal drive and an external enclosure for it. Enclosures are
inexpensive and inserting a drive in one is quick and easy.

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 10:31:23 -0500, jackpatton@astraweb.com wrote:
>
> >January, 2024
> >
> >currently I have
> >a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive
> >a Seagate 4 terabyte external desktop drive
> >a Fantom 2 tb external
> >a WD 1/2T external
> >
> >and about 1/2 Terabyte free, cumulative, of all drives
> >
> >I am looking to add more space and wondering --
> >
> >What is the most reliable external drive brand?
>
>
> As far as I'm concerned, you should not be concerned with reliable
> external drive brands. You should be concerned with reliable drive
> brands. Instead of buying an external drive, it's often wise to buy an
> internal drive and an external enclosure for it. Enclosures are
> inexpensive and inserting a drive in one is quick and easy.

The external disks Jack is looking for, are probably 2.5" disks, i.e.
'portable' ones without a power supply, not 3.5" ones, which are not
only bigger, i.e. less/not portable, but also need a power supply.

For 2.5" portable disks, there's no point buying an enclosure and a
seperate disk. It's unlikely that the combination will be cheaper or/and
more reliable than normal portable disk.

jackpatton@astraweb.com wrote:
> January, 2024
>
> currently I have
> a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive
> a Seagate 4 terabyte external desktop drive
> a Fantom 2 tb external
> a WD 1/2T external
>
> and about 1/2 Terabyte free, cumulative, of all drives
>
> I am looking to add more space and wondering --
>
> What is the most reliable external drive brand?
>
> jack

I've always found Seagate the best, with WD not far behind.

I've also found that frequent plugging in and out of a cable to a 4TB WD
HD will break the HD's connector. So I leave a cable attached and simply
plug into USB; the latter connectors are far more solid and reliable.

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:
> jackpatton@astraweb.com wrote:
>> January, 2024
>>
>> currently I have
>> a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive
>> a Seagate 4 terabyte external desktop drive
>> a Fantom 2 tb external
>> a WD 1/2T external
>>
>> and about 1/2 Terabyte free, cumulative, of all drives
>>
>> I am looking to add more space and wondering --
>>
>> What is the most reliable external drive brand?
>>
>> jack
>
> I've always found Seagate the best, with WD not far behind.
>
> I've also found that frequent plugging in and out of a cable to a 4TB WD
> HD will break the HD's connector. So I leave a cable attached and simply
> plug into USB; the latter connectors are far more solid and reliable.
>
> Ed

Both old USB and more recent USB-C connectors are reliable.

Ed

On 1/8/2024 10:49 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 10:31:23 -0500, jackpatton@astraweb.com wrote:
>
>> January, 2024
>>
>> currently I have
>> a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive
>> a Seagate 4 terabyte external desktop drive
>> a Fantom 2 tb external
>> a WD 1/2T external
>>
>> and about 1/2 Terabyte free, cumulative, of all drives
>>
>> I am looking to add more space and wondering --
>>
>> What is the most reliable external drive brand?
>
>
> As far as I'm concerned, you should not be concerned with reliable
> external drive brands. You should be concerned with reliable drive
> brands. Instead of buying an external drive, it's often wise to buy an
> internal drive and an external enclosure for it. Enclosures are
> inexpensive and inserting a drive in one is quick and easy.
>

You might be able to get a 5.25" mount with SATA connector in the
back and slide a SATA drive into place. That could be termed a
cartridge drive maybe.

For stats, we can use this as a start.

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q3-2023/

From the Backblaze list, you'd want a model with a good number of
drives (25000), and then, a good statistic. The second from the
bottom, is a reasonable candidate. A competitor at the same capacity,
comes in second place.

Drives at 8TB or larger, may be Helium drives. These are "guaranteed to
have Helium for five years". The drives are sealed. Moisture cannot
get in.

Helium drives have spinup control. They are to be powered by SATA power
connectors having four wires. Some "adapters" which convert the power
from other standards, may achieve the four wire requirement. If the fifth
wire is still present, the drive will not spin up and there will not be
damage. One of the 3.3V power contacts, is the spinup control, and connecting
3.3V to the contact, is interpreted as a "logic 1" and "Dont Spin" is the result.

The mounting holes on high capacity drives are non-standard. Your
Antec Sonata tray won't work. Your U-channel adapter kit won't work.
And so on. Someone used a 3D printer to make a modified Antec Sonata
tray, and that was his answer to the problem. I lay my single high capacity
drive on the table, take the side off the PC, and cable it up. There's
always a (bad) solution that does not involve mounting screws.

There aren't a lot of nice enclosures (fan cooling) for sale,
and even if there were, the screws will be in the wrong place.
Only the manufacturer housing would be correct, as purchased
as an external. The drive inside an external, may not be the
same model as the "reliable" one, and they are usually
"lesser SKU" drives (not vibration resistant like a NAS drive).

so, yeah, very encouraging state of affairs. I'm happy my drive works.
That is all...

Paul

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
[...]
> I've also found that frequent plugging in and out of a cable to a 4TB WD
> HD will break the HD's connector. So I leave a cable attached and simply
> plug into USB; the latter connectors are far more solid and reliable.

Is the plug on the drive-side a (USB 3.X) 'wide' Micro-B connector,
like the bottom-right one in this picture?

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#/media/File:USB_2.0_and_3.0_connectors.svg>

If so, the drive-side connection of one of my 1TB WD Elements did not
break, but is not quite reliable. Sometimes I get a 'not ready' error
and only unplugging and re-inserting gets things going again. More a
nuisance than a problem.

Note to self: Look for dust/dirt in plug/receptable.

jackpatton@astraweb.com wrote:
> January, 2024
>
> currently I have
> a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive

I think it's Seagate *or* Passport, not both. AFAIK, only Western
Digital (WD) makes Passport drives.

> a Seagate 4 terabyte external desktop drive
> a Fantom 2 tb external
> a WD 1/2T external
>
> and about 1/2 Terabyte free, cumulative, of all drives
>
> I am looking to add more space and wondering --
>
> What is the most reliable external drive brand?

Two of my three failed drives are WD drives, so I advise to buy WD
drives.

No, I'm not kidding. My last purchases have been WD drives. Both two
(or three if you count LSWMBO's) 2.5" 1TB WD Elements external/portable
drives and a 3.5" 4TB WD RED WD40EFRX internal (in NAS) disk. No
problems with them.

The story about my failed WD disks is not really relevant. The first
was a 160GB external/portable drive, so a long time ago. In the second
case, the 3.5" 2TB (or 3TB?) disk was in a closed WD My Cloud NAS, and I
don't know if the NAS or the disk failed.

On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:20:26 +0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

>jackpatton@astraweb.com wrote:
>> January, 2024
>>
>> currently I have
>> a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive
>> a Seagate 4 terabyte external desktop drive
>> a Fantom 2 tb external
>> a WD 1/2T external
>>
>> and about 1/2 Terabyte free, cumulative, of all drives
>>
>> I am looking to add more space and wondering --
>>
>> What is the most reliable external drive brand?
>>
>> jack
>
>I've always found Seagate the best, with WD not far behind.
>
>I've also found that frequent plugging in and out of a cable to a 4TB WD
>HD will break the HD's connector. So I leave a cable attached and simply
>plug into USB; the latter connectors are far more solid and reliable.
>
>Ed

Thanks Ed, I have been a supporter of Seagate since about 1993. But i know things can change.
I have the previously internal WD "purple" in an external enclosure, It was ''used' and given to me,
and I have used it as extra storage for about 10 years (since October, 2014).
a few days ago I ran a "chkdisk /r /v" on it,expecting to find errors, but was surprised it came up
clean. -- that impressed me. (I ran chkdisk via command line since that gives a better report than the
gui version though on SYSOUT..)
The Fantom, probably the same age and in service by me for 9 years had 1 bad spot.
I did not test the Seagates since they are more recent.

jack

On 8 Jan 2024 16:48:27 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>jackpatton@astraweb.com wrote:
>> January, 2024
>>
>> currently I have
>> a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive
>
> I think it's Seagate *or* Passport, not both. AFAIK, only Western
>Digital (WD) makes Passport drives.
>
haha. You are right!
I just went around the table and checked it and in the S/N and tech data in tiny print on the back it
says "Seagate portable expansion drive".
Apparently someone called it a passport drive ~6 years ago and i just accepted it. It draws power from
the USB port which I will guess the WD passport drive does also.
(my case/mb has 5 usb ports but only one powered port)

jack

<jackpatton@astraweb.com> wrote
| | What is the most reliable external drive brand?
|

I occasionally see news of a lemon. You might want to check
reviews online. One model might have a very good record in
2TB but terrible in 4TB, for example. Personally I've been buying
Samsung 500 GB. Why? A mix of superstition, reviews and a
feeling that I don't want or need experimental sizes. I just
buy them on sale and keep them until I need them.

In message <unha4r.12a4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Mon, 8 Jan
2024 16:07:46, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
[]
> For 2.5" portable disks, there's no point buying an enclosure and a
>seperate disk. It's unlikely that the combination will be cheaper or/and
>more reliable than normal portable disk.

I beg to differ: the ones on sale as ready-made portable drives,
especially if the case has some sort of fancy design rather than the
extruded aluminium tube or a name like "passport" or similar, tend to
cost a _lot_ more than putting them together yourself (which takes five
minutes - and some of the cheap enclosures even come with a little
screwdriver).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All humanity is divided into three classes: those who are immovable, those who
are movable, and those who move! - Benjamin Franklin

In message <qfaopi5hrsjbcqop0ffb1i367nqtakl3lr@4ax.com> at Mon, 8 Jan
2024 12:34:28, jackpatton@astraweb.com writes
[]
>Thanks Ed, I have been a supporter of Seagate since about 1993. But i
>know things can change.
>I have the previously internal WD "purple" in an external enclosure, It
>was ''used' and given to me,
>and I have used it as extra storage for about 10 years (since October, 2014).
>a few days ago I ran a "chkdisk /r /v" on it,expecting to find errors,
>but was surprised it came up
>clean. -- that impressed me. (I ran chkdisk via command line since
>that gives a better report than the
>gui version though on SYSOUT..)
>The Fantom, probably the same age and in service by me for 9 years had
>1 bad spot.
>I did not test the Seagates since they are more recent.
>
>jack
>
Drives for the last few decades, certainly since before SATA (I think it
might have been about the time of the transition from IDE to EIDE - that
might even be what the E stands for) have had a few spare sectors, and
firmware that switches those in when it finds a dud sector. As such,
_any_ test - command line or Windows - will show nothing is amiss until
_all_ the spare sectors have been used up, by which point it's too late.

The only way to see if there are dud sectors being switched over is a
_speed_ test that looks at the access speed all across the disc, such as
HD tune (the free version); this will still show no errors, but the
access speed will have dips in it where the heads have to move to access
the spare sectors. It's old software so it'll also show speed dips where
Windows interrupts it, so run it twice (using the save function to save
the graph, and compare them) - there shouldn't be dips in the same place
on two successive runs.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All humanity is divided into three classes: those who are immovable, those who
are movable, and those who move! - Benjamin Franklin

jackpatton@astraweb.com wrote:
> January, 2024
>
> currently I have
> a Seagate 1 terabyte external passport drive
> a Seagate 4 terabyte external desktop drive
> a Fantom 2 tb external
> a WD 1/2T external
>
> and about 1/2 Terabyte free, cumulative, of all drives
>
> I am looking to add more space and wondering --
>
> What is the most reliable external drive brand?
>
> jack

A couple of thoughts:
1) Forget spinners and get either a ssd or m.2.
Drop the spinner and all the data is gone.

2) Many brand name external drives are proprietary and either require
their brand of access software or the drive component is not replaceable.

I had a brand name spinner once. I'll never have another one.
My current one is a ssd in a generic case. The drive component is
replaceable and can be easily swapped with other sdd's.

In message <unic5o$1safd$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 8 Jan 2024 20:48:18,
Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> writes
[]
>> What is the most reliable external drive brand?
>> jack
>
>A couple of thoughts:
>1) Forget spinners and get either a ssd or m.2.
>Drop the spinner and all the data is gone.

In theory, yes. In practice, I don't think I've ever had that happen. I
_have_ had spinners gradually degrade - but IME it's a sufficiently
gradual process that you get enough warning. No, not always - they _can_
fail instantly. (I've had that once - but it was an internal drive, in a
machine that overheated, and the heads eventually spot-welded; even that
one, I opened it up and was able to free it, and got well over 95% of
the data off.)

Conversely, SSDs have a sudden and no-warning failure mode - in some
cases it's actually programmed in. (I think most become read-only at
that point, though there was one notorious range that became a total
brick.)

Depends what you're wanting the external drive _for_. I'm guessing
backup. In that case, you're _probably_ - with modern SSDs - not going
to get close to the end-of-life count, unless you've got a fairly
intense backup regime.

Of course, there will be those who will say you should plan for failure
anyway, regardless of whether it's a spinner or an SSD; they are, of
course, right.
>
>2) Many brand name external drives are proprietary and either require
>their brand of access software or the drive component is not
>replaceable.

I didn't know that (about the proprietary software). Good advice. I'd go
with the self-casing anyway, rather than pre-cased.

As for the brands, I've heard it said that over the years, all have had
some rogue ranges, and also that drives from the same factories - both
good and bad - have found their way out under various brands. Bad
factories _have_ been identified - but usually too long after the drives
are in circulation for the information to be of much practical use to
anyone, other than buyers of refurbished drives.
>
>I had a brand name spinner once. I'll never have another one.

I take it you mean a branded external, like the "passport" series (I'm
not saying there's anything wrong with those, it's just a name I can
think of). I've never had one of those because of the price markup,
compared to a generic.

>My current one is a ssd in a generic case. The drive component is
>replaceable and can be easily swapped with other sdd's.

I take it SATA. (Does anyone make external cases for M2s?)

Of course, an SSD will be a lot _faster_. Though the speed difference
may not be evident depending on the interface; certainly if (I note this
is in a W7 newsgroup) the interface is USB2, I don't think the speed
gain will be worth the price difference. But if it's eSATA or something
even more modern, you might well notice the difference.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual
rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. - Ayn Rand, quoted by Deb
Shinder 2012-3-30

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <unha4r.12a4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Mon, 8 Jan
> 2024 16:07:46, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
> []
> > For 2.5" portable disks, there's no point buying an enclosure and a
> >seperate disk. It's unlikely that the combination will be cheaper or/and
> >more reliable than normal portable disk.
>
> I beg to differ: the ones on sale as ready-made portable drives,
> especially if the case has some sort of fancy design rather than the
> extruded aluminium tube or a name like "passport" or similar, tend to
> cost a _lot_ more than putting them together yourself (which takes five
> minutes - and some of the cheap enclosures even come with a little
> screwdriver).

I'm not talking about drives in fancy design, 'Passport', rugged,
etc.. Just basic drives. For example my 1TB WD Elements drives are sold
for some 60 to 66 Euros (just a quick search, maybe cheaper than that).
I doubt that an enclosure and a seperate disk will be (much) cheaper
than that. (A quick search for a seperate (2.5") 1TB WD drive, gives
prices from 53.50 Euro.)

Also note my 'reliable' comment. An integrated disk is likely to be
more compact and sturdy. Whether that is relevant depends on the user's
needs. I use mine while traveling, so size and 'sturdyness' are
important.

But, as always, YMMV/YMWV.

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[...]

> Drives for the last few decades, certainly since before SATA (I think it
> might have been about the time of the transition from IDE to EIDE - that
> might even be what the E stands for) have had a few spare sectors, and
> firmware that switches those in when it finds a dud sector. As such,
> _any_ test - command line or Windows - will show nothing is amiss until
> _all_ the spare sectors have been used up, by which point it's too late.
>
> The only way to see if there are dud sectors being switched over is a
> _speed_ test that looks at the access speed all across the disc, such as
> HD tune (the free version); this will still show no errors, but the
> access speed will have dips in it where the heads have to move to access
> the spare sectors. It's old software so it'll also show speed dips where
> Windows interrupts it, so run it twice (using the save function to save
> the graph, and compare them) - there shouldn't be dips in the same place
> on two successive runs.

AFAIK, also the SMART data will show if any spare sectors have be
allocated. But, unlike HD tune et al, it will not show which sectors
have been reallocated and not to where.

In message <unji9t.c80.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Tue, 9 Jan
2024 12:39:19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
>J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <unha4r.12a4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Mon, 8 Jan
>> 2024 16:07:46, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
>> []
>> > For 2.5" portable disks, there's no point buying an enclosure and a
>> >seperate disk. It's unlikely that the combination will be cheaper or/and
>> >more reliable than normal portable disk.
>>
>> I beg to differ: the ones on sale as ready-made portable drives,
>> especially if the case has some sort of fancy design rather than the
>> extruded aluminium tube or a name like "passport" or similar, tend to
>> cost a _lot_ more than putting them together yourself (which takes five
>> minutes - and some of the cheap enclosures even come with a little
>> screwdriver).
>
> I'm not talking about drives in fancy design, 'Passport', rugged,
>etc.. Just basic drives. For example my 1TB WD Elements drives are sold
>for some 60 to 66 Euros (just a quick search, maybe cheaper than that).
>I doubt that an enclosure and a seperate disk will be (much) cheaper
>than that. (A quick search for a seperate (2.5") 1TB WD drive, gives
>prices from 53.50 Euro.)

So about 6.50 Euro difference for the drive. I've just had a quick look,
and an external case (including lead) is from about 4 pounds (or 1.20 if
you're willing to mess about with bidding; life's too short!). So, as
you say, the difference isn't as much now as it was last time I looked,
and ...
>
> Also note my 'reliable' comment. An integrated disk is likely to be
>more compact and sturdy. Whether that is relevant depends on the user's
>needs. I use mine while traveling, so size and 'sturdyness' are
>important.

.... as you say, you're more definite that it will work.

I'd probably still buy them separately, as (a) I like doing so, and (b)
there's always the concern someone else mentioned that a proprietary one
_may_ have non-standard parts, so if either drive or housing fails,
you're stuck. (I had a friend who had an external drive which failed -
started drawing too much power I think, which upset the PC; fortunately,
in her case, it _was_ just a standard drive, and replacing the case
[really the PCB, but the whole case was easier] fixed the problem.)
>
> But, as always, YMMV/YMWV.

Indeed.

Back to the OP's question - I have no idea which (whether bought as an
external drive, or drive and housing separately) are most reliable: I
suspect few people buy and use them fast enough to be able to say (in
other words, if anyone _does_ have bad experience to tell you about, I
suspect it's a model no longer available). They _are_ pretty reliable
these days!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Don't play "stupid" with me... I'm better at it.

In message <unjiu5.c80.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Tue, 9 Jan
2024 12:50:09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
>J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>[...]
>
>> Drives for the last few decades, certainly since before SATA (I think it
>> might have been about the time of the transition from IDE to EIDE - that
>> might even be what the E stands for) have had a few spare sectors, and
>> firmware that switches those in when it finds a dud sector. As such,
>> _any_ test - command line or Windows - will show nothing is amiss until
>> _all_ the spare sectors have been used up, by which point it's too late.
>>
>> The only way to see if there are dud sectors being switched over is a
>> _speed_ test that looks at the access speed all across the disc, such as
>> HD tune (the free version); this will still show no errors, but the
>> access speed will have dips in it where the heads have to move to access
>> the spare sectors. It's old software so it'll also show speed dips where
>> Windows interrupts it, so run it twice (using the save function to save
>> the graph, and compare them) - there shouldn't be dips in the same place
>> on two successive runs.
>
> AFAIK, also the SMART data will show if any spare sectors have be
>allocated. But, unlike HD tune et al, it will not show which sectors
>have been reallocated and not to where.

Indeed, SMART will give some indication. Though as you'll need some
utility to access the SMART data, you may as well get HDTune as that has
SMART listing as part of it (the "Health" tab), and it's free.
(http://www.hdtune.com/download.html - scroll down to the free one.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Don't play "stupid" with me... I'm better at it.