I was trying out the CDE desktop, which I used back in the 1990s. I
wanted to test some X11/motif program without the extra layers of modern
desktops. Things went awry. I figured out that .profile login file is
used in CDE, but not in contemporary Plasma/LXQT et cetera.
That is when you login selecting a desktop, and then in that desktop,
open a console, and type some command in console.
In CDE, the console is running bash (not ksh, csh or whatever was bog
standard last century). And it was executing contents of .profile
as well as .bashrc.

In article <t9k0or$9lb$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Percy Walton <wpercy@eklon.co.uk> wrote:
>I was trying out the CDE desktop, which I used back in the 1990s. I
>wanted to test some X11/motif program without the extra layers of modern
>desktops. Things went awry. I figured out that .profile login file is
>used in CDE, but not in contemporary Plasma/LXQT et cetera.
>That is when you login selecting a desktop, and then in that desktop,
>open a console, and type some command in console.
>In CDE, the console is running bash (not ksh, csh or whatever was bog
>standard last century). And it was executing contents of .profile
>as well as .bashrc.

So, where are you going with this? What sort of help/assistance do you seek?

--
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:17:44 -0400, Percy Walton <wpercy@eklon.co.uk> wrote:

> I was trying out the CDE desktop, which I used back in the 1990s. I
> wanted to test some X11/motif program without the extra layers of modern
> desktops. Things went awry. I figured out that .profile login file is
> used in CDE, but not in contemporary Plasma/LXQT et cetera.
> That is when you login selecting a desktop, and then in that desktop,
> open a console, and type some command in console.
> In CDE, the console is running bash (not ksh, csh or whatever was bog
> standard last century). And it was executing contents of .profile
> as well as .bashrc.

The ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bash_login or ~/.profile file (the first and only
the first of the three that is found) will be sourced/run once during the user
login and only for login shells. Either a normal user login or a bash session
started with su --login $USER. Opening a konsole or gnome-terminal does not
execute the profile script.

The ~/.bashrc file is sourced in each interactive shell the user starts, and
only in interactive shells. It doesn't get sourced in non interactive shells
such as those used when running a script.

If you login to an interactive shell (run level 3 or multi-user.target), then
both the profile and .bashrc scripts are sourced/run.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

In article <op.1ok4vqxra3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net>,
David W. Hodgins <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:17:44 -0400, Percy Walton <wpercy@eklon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I was trying out the CDE desktop, which I used back in the 1990s. I
>> wanted to test some X11/motif program without the extra layers of modern
>> desktops. Things went awry. I figured out that .profile login file is
>> used in CDE, but not in contemporary Plasma/LXQT et cetera.
>> That is when you login selecting a desktop, and then in that desktop,
>> open a console, and type some command in console.
>> In CDE, the console is running bash (not ksh, csh or whatever was bog
>> standard last century). And it was executing contents of .profile
>> as well as .bashrc.
>
>The ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bash_login or ~/.profile file (the first and only
>the first of the three that is found) will be sourced/run once during the user
>login and only for login shells. Either a normal user login or a bash session
>started with su --login $USER. Opening a konsole or gnome-terminal does not
>execute the profile script.
>
>The ~/.bashrc file is sourced in each interactive shell the user starts, and
>only in interactive shells. It doesn't get sourced in non interactive shells
>such as those used when running a script.
>
>If you login to an interactive shell (run level 3 or multi-user.target), then
>both the profile and .bashrc scripts are sourced/run.

What is the point of this response (*) ?

(*) Other than to tell us all a bunch of things we already know.

--
There are two kinds of Republicans: Billionaires and suckers.
Republicans: Please check your bank account and decide which one is you.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 18:31:38 -0400, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

> In article <op.1ok4vqxra3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net>,
> David W. Hodgins <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:17:44 -0400, Percy Walton <wpercy@eklon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I was trying out the CDE desktop, which I used back in the 1990s. I
>>> wanted to test some X11/motif program without the extra layers of modern
>>> desktops. Things went awry. I figured out that .profile login file is
>>> used in CDE, but not in contemporary Plasma/LXQT et cetera.
>>> That is when you login selecting a desktop, and then in that desktop,
>>> open a console, and type some command in console.
>>> In CDE, the console is running bash (not ksh, csh or whatever was bog
>>> standard last century). And it was executing contents of .profile
>>> as well as .bashrc.
>>
>> The ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bash_login or ~/.profile file (the first and only
>> the first of the three that is found) will be sourced/run once during the user
>> login and only for login shells. Either a normal user login or a bash session
>> started with su --login $USER. Opening a konsole or gnome-terminal does not
>> execute the profile script.
>>
>> The ~/.bashrc file is sourced in each interactive shell the user starts, and
>> only in interactive shells. It doesn't get sourced in non interactive shells
>> such as those used when running a script.
>>
>> If you login to an interactive shell (run level 3 or multi-user.target), then
>> both the profile and .bashrc scripts are sourced/run.
>
> What is the point of this response (*) ?
>
> (*) Other than to tell us all a bunch of things we already know.

My impression of Percy's statement was that he did not know those things.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

On 6/30/22 6:59 PM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 18:31:38 -0400, Kenny McCormack
> <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <op.1ok4vqxra3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net>,
>> David W. Hodgins <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:17:44 -0400, Percy Walton <wpercy@eklon.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was trying out the CDE desktop, which I used back in the 1990s. I
>>>> wanted to test some X11/motif program without the extra layers of
>>>> modern
>>>> desktops. Things went awry. I figured out that .profile login file is
>>>> used in CDE, but not in contemporary Plasma/LXQT et cetera.
>>>> That is when you login selecting a desktop, and then in that desktop,
>>>> open a console, and type some command in console.
>>>> In CDE, the console is running bash (not ksh, csh or whatever was bog
>>>> standard last century). And it was executing contents of .profile
>>>> as well as .bashrc.
>>>
>>> The ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bash_login or ~/.profile file (the first
>>> and only
>>> the first of the three that is found) will be sourced/run once during
>>> the user
>>> login and only for login shells. Either a normal user login or a bash
>>> session
>>> started with su --login $USER. Opening a konsole or gnome-terminal
>>> does not
>>> execute the profile script.
>>>
>>> The ~/.bashrc file is sourced in each interactive shell the user
>>> starts, and
>>> only in interactive shells. It doesn't get sourced in non interactive
>>> shells
>>> such as those used when running a script.
>>>
>>> If you login to an interactive shell (run level 3 or
>>> multi-user.target), then
>>> both the profile and .bashrc scripts are sourced/run.
>>
>> What is the point of this response (*) ?
>>
>> (*) Other than to tell us all a bunch of things we already know.
>
> My impression of Percy's statement was that he did not know those things.

Exactly. Nobody knows it all and most people know mostly
NOTHING about Linux/Unix. Most wonder why Word won't
run on it (for free) ....

So, be nice.

I'd totally forgotten about CDE (and there's a variant).
Now I'm gonna try installing it :-)

In any case, if .profile and .bashrc are run then you've
gotta be careful about what's IN them.

25.BZ959 wrote:
>
>   I'd totally forgotten about CDE (and there's a variant).
>   Now I'm gonna try installing it  :-)
>
FWIW

Common Desktop Environment ((CDE) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment

"The Common Desktop Environment (CDE) on a modern Linux distribution" by
Jesse Smith - DistroWatch.com
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20220110#cde

Not so Common Desktop Environment (NsCDE)
https://github.com/NsCDE/NsCDE
"Modern and functional CDE desktop based on FVWM"

On 6/30/22 11:55 PM, Andrei Z. wrote:
> 25.BZ959 wrote:
>>
>>    I'd totally forgotten about CDE (and there's a variant).
>>    Now I'm gonna try installing it  :-)
>>
> FWIW

I *like* "light" environments ... LXDE, OpenBox, IceWM ...
but not TOO light. CDE is very Win95 - usable but but
not super-annoyingly Spartan. Been doing a lot of stuff
for rPI's lately too .....

Just downloaded it from the Deb repositories. Tomorrow ... :-)

Take *that* KDE ! If I wanted Win-11 I'd BUY Win-11.
'Crisp' is what I look for. JUST enough.

> Common Desktop Environment ((CDE) - Wikipedia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment
>
> "The Common Desktop Environment (CDE) on a modern Linux distribution" by
> Jesse Smith - DistroWatch.com
> https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20220110#cde
>
> Not so Common Desktop Environment (NsCDE)
> https://github.com/NsCDE/NsCDE
> "Modern and functional CDE desktop based on FVWM"

On 01.07.2022 at 01:43, 25.BZ959 scribbled:

> I *like* "light" environments ... LXDE, OpenBox, IceWM ...
> but not TOO light. CDE is very Win95 - usable but but
> not super-annoyingly Spartan. Been doing a lot of stuff
> for rPI's lately too .....
>
> Just downloaded it from the Deb repositories. Tomorrow ... :-)
>
> Take *that* KDE ! If I wanted Win-11 I'd BUY Win-11.
> 'Crisp' is what I look for. JUST enough.

I'm guessing it must have been a very long time since you last used or
even saw KDE. Its memory footprint is no bigger than that of XFCE
these days, and on my systems, it doesn't look anything like
MS-Windows.

Actually, I've made it look much more like a Mac, even though it was
not my intention to turn it into a Mac clone. If I wanted that, then I
could have done that too. I have merely applied my own sense of
aesthetics and ergonomics to it, and they happen to agree a lot (albeit
not 100%) with the look & feel of macOS. Besides, GNU/Linux is a UNIX
system, and so is macOS, while MS-Windows most certainly is not.

KDE Plasma is fully customizable, and you don't even have to edit any
configuration files for doing so.

With respect,
= Aragorn =

On 7/1/22 8:01 AM, Aragorn wrote:
> On 01.07.2022 at 01:43, 25.BZ959 scribbled:
>
>> I *like* "light" environments ... LXDE, OpenBox, IceWM ...
>> but not TOO light. CDE is very Win95 - usable but but
>> not super-annoyingly Spartan. Been doing a lot of stuff
>> for rPI's lately too .....
>>
>> Just downloaded it from the Deb repositories. Tomorrow ... :-)
>>
>> Take *that* KDE ! If I wanted Win-11 I'd BUY Win-11.
>> 'Crisp' is what I look for. JUST enough.
>
> I'm guessing it must have been a very long time since you last used or
> even saw KDE. Its memory footprint is no bigger than that of XFCE
> these days, and on my systems, it doesn't look anything like
> MS-Windows.
>
> Actually, I've made it look much more like a Mac, even though it was
> not my intention to turn it into a Mac clone. If I wanted that, then I
> could have done that too. I have merely applied my own sense of
> aesthetics and ergonomics to it, and they happen to agree a lot (albeit
> not 100%) with the look & feel of macOS. Besides, GNU/Linux is a UNIX
> system, and so is macOS, while MS-Windows most certainly is not.
>
> KDE Plasma is fully customizable, and you don't even have to edit any
> configuration files for doing so.
>
> With respect,
> = Aragorn =
>

With respect ... NEVER gonna use it - and I *hate* MAC.

Oh, and I've SEEN all, ALL, the crap any KDE app wants
to install. "Light" ... no, no, no .........

LXDE is the fattest environ I ever install.

If I can find something that doesn't even need
x-windows/Wayland I'll go THAT way.

That's MY take on Linux GUI interfaces. No apologies.

Le 02-07-2022, 25.BZ959 <25BZ959@nada.net> a écrit :
> On 7/1/22 8:01 AM, Aragorn wrote:
>>
>> Actually, I've made it look much more like a Mac, even though it was
>> not my intention to turn it into a Mac clone. If I wanted that, then I
>> could have done that too. I have merely applied my own sense of
>> aesthetics and ergonomics to it, and they happen to agree a lot (albeit
>> not 100%) with the look & feel of macOS. Besides, GNU/Linux is a UNIX
>> system, and so is macOS, while MS-Windows most certainly is not.
>
> With respect ... NEVER gonna use it -

First, you do what you want, I don't care, I won't try to convince you
in any way. I'll never use it neither, because I can't consider anything
which is not keyboard driven: only a tilling WM can suit my needs.

Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments because
they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the sound, and
when you want to switch between WM, things can go weird because of it.
And it's another reason I will never use it, even if it becomes more
keyboard driven.

The reason I answer because of the rest of your sentence.

> and I *hate* MAC.

At this point, I guess there are some confusions. I agree, I hate Mac, I
hate Windows, I did hate Steve JOBS like I hate Bill GATES and their
legacies. One issue I have is: they are sure they know better than me
what's good for me and I have to follow their way because there are no
other possibilities.

That being said, you have to agree: a lot of people are using Mac because
they find it way easier than Windows. So there must be some good design
in it. It provides easy ways to do easily a lot of things. The main
issue in the Mac design is: when you want to do something else than what
has been designed, you can't.

So, it's a good idea to have the good design (if it suits you) of Mac
and still being able to go easily around the limitations of Mac.

Like one said, a lot of Linux WM give you an easy way to do a lot of
easy things simple and provide you a way to do complex things. When Mac
give you a way to do a lot of easy things simple and stops there.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Am 02.07.22 um 10:45 schrieb Stéphane CARPENTIER:
> Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments because
> they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the sound, and
> when you want to switch between WM, things can go weird because of it.
>
> At this point, I guess there are some confusions. I agree, I hate Mac, I
> hate Windows, I did hate Steve JOBS like I hate Bill GATES and their
> legacies.

You are case for the loony bin.
Are you running around with a gun?

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 02.07.22 um 10:45 schrieb Stéphane CARPENTIER:
> The main
> issue in the Mac design is: when you want to do something else than what
> has been designed, you can't.

Total nonsense.
When you are used to the terminal you can do everything a BSD can.
Therefore it is as versatile as any Linux.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 02.07.2022 at 08:45, Stéphane CARPENTIER scribbled:

> Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments
> because they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the
> sound, [...]

No, they don't. The sound is managed through PulseAudio or PipeWire,
Jack, or similar frameworks, all of which run on top of ALSA.

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

On 7/2/22 5:38 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 02.07.22 um 10:45 schrieb Stéphane CARPENTIER:
>> Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments because
>> they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the sound, and
>> when you want to switch between WM, things can go weird because of it.
>>
>> At this point, I guess there are some confusions. I agree, I hate Mac, I
>> hate Windows, I did hate Steve JOBS like I hate Bill GATES and their
>> legacies.
>
> You are case for the loony bin.
> Are you running around with a gun?

So ... anybody who loathes Mac's is insane ?

I'm old enough to remember their Big Brother TV
ad ... now they've BECOME what they once claimed
to abhor.

Sorry, but I have to DEAL with their messed-up
system fairly often on the job and they've made
it every bit as messed-up as Winders. A typical
modern GiantEvilCorp product. Oh, and then all
the super-custom-buy-it-from-us-or-NOBODY add
ons and parts.

Anybody who'd intentionally USE Mac needs a psych
exam IMHO. It's just overpriced StatusWare.

Yea, yea ... the Unix IS there underneath, now WAY
underneath. Just proves Apple can screw up anything
and still manage to scam people into paying more for it.

Le 02-07-2022, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> a écrit :
> Am 02.07.22 um 10:45 schrieb Stéphane CARPENTIER:
>> Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments because
>> they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the sound, and
>> when you want to switch between WM, things can go weird because of it.
>>
>> At this point, I guess there are some confusions. I agree, I hate Mac, I
>> hate Windows, I did hate Steve JOBS like I hate Bill GATES and their
>> legacies.
>
> You are case for the loony bin.

You are blind, you're opinion on me doesn't matter.

> Are you running around with a gun?

I'm not living in a retard country with everyone having a gun at home.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Am 02.07.22 um 16:51 schrieb 25.BZ959:
> On 7/2/22 5:38 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 02.07.22 um 10:45 schrieb Stéphane CARPENTIER:
>>> Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments because
>>> they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the sound, and
>>> when you want to switch between WM, things can go weird because of it.
>>>
>>> At this point, I guess there are some confusions. I agree, I hate Mac, I
>>> hate Windows, I did hate Steve JOBS like I hate Bill GATES and their
>>> legacies.
>>
>> You are case for the loony bin.
>> Are you running around with a gun?
>
> So ... anybody who loathes Mac's is insane ?

Yes.
And everybody with unnecessary text indents too.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 02.07.22 um 19:29 schrieb Stéphane CARPENTIER:
> Le 02-07-2022, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> a écrit :
>> Am 02.07.22 um 10:45 schrieb Stéphane CARPENTIER:
>>> Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments because
>>> they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the sound, and
>>> when you want to switch between WM, things can go weird because of it.
>>>
>>> At this point, I guess there are some confusions. I agree, I hate Mac, I
>>> hate Windows, I did hate Steve JOBS like I hate Bill GATES and their
>>> legacies.
>>
>> You are case for the loony bin.
>
> You are blind, you're opinion on me doesn't matter.
>
>> Are you running around with a gun?
>
> I'm not living in a retard country with everyone having a gun at home.

You are definitely a case for the loony bin.
Adieu

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 7/2/22 1:29 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 02-07-2022, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> a écrit :
>> Am 02.07.22 um 10:45 schrieb Stéphane CARPENTIER:
>>> Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments because
>>> they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the sound, and
>>> when you want to switch between WM, things can go weird because of it.
>>>
>>> At this point, I guess there are some confusions. I agree, I hate Mac, I
>>> hate Windows, I did hate Steve JOBS like I hate Bill GATES and their
>>> legacies.
>>
>> You are case for the loony bin.
>
> You are blind, you're opinion on me doesn't matter.
>
>> Are you running around with a gun?
>
> I'm not living in a retard country with everyone having a gun at home.

What makes you think they have just one ?

BUT, your "perfect" country will be pleading for our
'loonies' to save yer asses come the next big nasty. :-)

Oh, and Apple still sucks - CompuTotalalitarian
hyper-profiteers. Selling vanity is nothing new,
but their severely buttoned-down (and weird) platforms
are kinda unforgivable.

On 7/2/22 7:07 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 02.07.22 um 16:51 schrieb 25.BZ959:
>> On 7/2/22 5:38 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 02.07.22 um 10:45 schrieb Stéphane CARPENTIER:
>>>> Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments because
>>>> they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the sound, and
>>>> when you want to switch between WM, things can go weird because of it.
>>>>
>>>> At this point, I guess there are some confusions. I agree, I hate Mac, I
>>>> hate Windows, I did hate Steve JOBS like I hate Bill GATES and their
>>>> legacies.
>>>
>>> You are case for the loony bin.
>>> Are you running around with a gun?
>>
>> So ... anybody who loathes Mac's is insane ?
>
> Yes.
> And everybody with unnecessary text indents too.

Love 'em ! :-)

Think they do serve also, makes it a bit easier
to see who's "talking".

But what happened to the questions about the old CDE ?

On 7/2/22 10:31 AM, Aragorn wrote:
> On 02.07.2022 at 08:45, Stéphane CARPENTIER scribbled:
>
>> Second, I can't stand KDE, Gnome and other desktop environments
>> because they do a lot of things they shouldn't, like managing the
>> sound, [...]
>
> No, they don't. The sound is managed through PulseAudio or PipeWire,
> Jack, or similar frameworks, all of which run on top of ALSA.

But few want to live inside a terminal ... that's why
they got a Mac with the super-pretty GUI. If all you
want is a console then install any Linux or Unix but
no GUI - back to CP/M, DOS, Uv5 ... green on black
terminals hangin' off the 'frame.

Alas Apple (and MS) keep dumbing-down the GUIs until
you are FORCED to the command-line more and more to
accomplish anything more complex than Granny might
want for her Facebook and Amazon shopping. Most of
the GUIs for Linux/Unix these days have GUI apps that
can let you get pretty down and dirty with just a
mouse - good ones are even HELPFUL, consolidating
and coordinating what's in/changed in multiple
related config files. Hey, set up a RAID array the
terminal way ... half an hour, lots of typo issues ...
and then try the OpenSUSE YAST utility - two minutes,
and it'll help you decide about the fiddly params.

Andrei Z. wrote:
> 25.BZ959 wrote:
>>
>>    I'd totally forgotten about CDE (and there's a variant).
>>    Now I'm gonna try installing it  :-)
>>
> FWIW
>
> Common Desktop Environment ((CDE) - Wikipedia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment
>
> "The Common Desktop Environment (CDE) on a modern Linux distribution" by
> Jesse Smith - DistroWatch.com
> https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20220110#cde
>
> Not so Common Desktop Environment (NsCDE)
> https://github.com/NsCDE/NsCDE
> "Modern and functional CDE desktop based on FVWM"
>
CDE 2.5.0 has been released
https://sourceforge.net/p/cdesktopenv/mailman/message/37684830/

Not so Common Desktop Environment (NsCDE) 2.2
https://github.com/NsCDE/NsCDE/releases/tag/2.2