"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> There is a - tiny, but it has been known - risk of explosion or at least
> overheating of a battery (or cell) under continuous charge.

Lithiums can ignite on overcharging. Laptop, and other lithium
batteries have built-in protection. Coin cells do not.

> There's also always the _suspicion_ of designed-in obsolescence, though
> where the (usually CR2032) coin cell is used in a holder, that's
> probably not really the case.

The problem is with access. Desktop mobos are easy to replace coin cell
batteries. Remotes, hearing aids, and other devices using button
batteries have access to replace them. Alas, laptops don't add an
access panel you can remove on the bottom side of the case, plus the
battery is on the other side (top) of the mobo which requires
dismantling the case enough to remove the keyboard.

> Certainly, few cell manufacturers will offer a _guarantee_ longer than
> 5 years, usually a lot less; though some _do_ last longer.

The common coins cells are the cheaper lithium manganese, but there are
lithium thionyl coid cells that have longer shelf time. As for how long
they last depends on drain, and mobos vary how much they pull from the
coin cell battery. From what I've read, it's usually 6 to 10 uA. Plus
you don't want to rely on the last half of the lifespan for a battery
since that is when it has reduced capacity.

> Though you _can_ get CO monitors that take conventional (or
> rechargeable) cells. (Mine takes three AA.)

But the CO sensor degrades, so often those have a 10-year battery. Even
with replaceable batteries, read the instructions which probably say to
replace the entire unit after 10 years. Most recommendations from
installers is to replace the CO detector at 5 to 7 years. Kidde, in
accordance with the National Fire Protection Association, says to
replace at 7 to 10 years depending on model. Mine say 10 years.
Temperature and humidity will reduce the lifespan of when the CO
detector can accurately "small" the deadly gas. Silicon steam will
destroy the CO sensor. Corrosive gases (acidic or alkaline) and halogen
fire systems or extinguishers damage the CO sensor. will damage the CO
sensors. Water will reduce sensitivity until the sensor dries, and why
CO monitors should not be placed in bathrooms, shower rooms, or anywhere
there is high moisture.

The ones with replaceable batteries should beep when the battery is low.
Whether replaceable or not, they should start beeping every 30 seconds,
or show ERR on an LCD screen, when the entire unit needs to get
replaced. The CO monitor should have a date on the back, so you can
tell when to replace it rather than rely on beeps or ERR messages.

> True about the "considered"; in practice, I think the ones I've owned
> and used - including this one - have always been 3 or more years old,
> and often gone on for much longer than that.

My aunt has a laptop with Win Vista, and a notebook with Win 7. The
maker has long dropped support for those. Seems about 2 years is about
what you can expect for them supporting a model.

In message <8nzf4a4g1x7$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Tue, 23 Jan 2024 20:24:08,
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
[]
>Lithiums can ignite on overcharging. Laptop, and other lithium
>batteries have built-in protection. Coin cells do not.

Yes. Commoner in batteries than cells.
[]
>> Though you _can_ get CO monitors that take conventional (or
>> rechargeable) cells. (Mine takes three AA.)
[]
>The ones with replaceable batteries should beep when the battery is low.

Mine does indeed do that.
[]
>> True about the "considered"; in practice, I think the ones I've owned
>> and used - including this one - have always been 3 or more years old,
>> and often gone on for much longer than that.
>
>My aunt has a laptop with Win Vista, and a notebook with Win 7. The
>maker has long dropped support for those. Seems about 2 years is about
>what you can expect for them supporting a model.

And Microsoft not that much longer. (OK, it is longer, but you're
definitely treated as a dinosaur during the latter portion.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... the pleasure of the mind is an amazing thing. My life has been driven by
the satisfaction of curiosity. - Jeremy Paxman (being interviewed by Anne
Widdecombe), Radio Times, 2-8 July 2011.

In message <uoph5t$1fqtl$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 23 Jan 2024 18:13:00,
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes
[]
>In a few cases, the CMOS RAM was not reliable, and there was bodgery
>in firmware to hide that fact. You might be able to find comments
>about "cold room, my PC doesn't work right", so some things on
>a PC did not pass on temperature range (should have worked to 0C ambient).
>But the companies making the silicon could not afford to stop -- they
>just released the goods anyway. If you miss a release window by a few months,
>your chances to make money drop to just about zero.

Yes. I used to work in the support department for avionics: you've got
two incompatible industries there - most people who buy aircraft
(whether civil or military) expect them to last at least a decade or two
(many in some cases!), whereas many semiconductors have an active
manufacturing life of months, certainly advanced ones. Constant effort
finding alternatives, or old inventory.
>
>The alternative to all this fine stuff, is to return to the Dallas
>Semiconductor RTC chip, where the battery was strapped to the roof
>of the chip, and people used to "edit" their Dallas chip with a
>Dremel -- to deal with the dead battery on the top.
>
>Good times... that is for sure. We got some fine examples of
>the DIY spirit back then.
>
>https://www.ardent-tool.com/misc/Dallas_Rework.html
>
> Paul
>
Yes, a fun page!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
news:uOscBRWCmJslFwa0@255soft.uk...
> pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI

OK, your code at the bottom of four sig has got me intrigued. It's not a
simple ROT code (neither the default ROT13 or any other ROT1-25).

On 2/13/2024 6:51 AM, NY wrote:
> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
> news:uOscBRWCmJslFwa0@255soft.uk...
>> pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI
>
> OK, your code at the bottom of four sig has got me intrigued. It's not a
> simple ROT code (neither the default ROT13 or any other ROT1-25).

just start at the back end

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

In message <uqfok7$23bbg$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 13 Feb 2024 12:51:03,
NY <me@privacy.invalid> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
>news:uOscBRWCmJslFwa0@255soft.uk...
>> pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI
>
>OK, your code at the bottom of four sig has got me intrigued. It's not
>a simple ROT code (neither the default ROT13 or any other ROT1-25).

It's something I picked up a very long time ago - decades, I'm pretty
sure; I think it might have been from one of the original "fortune"
files.

It's just backwards (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I long for the commercialised Christmas of the 1970s. It's got so religious
now, it's lost its true meaning. - Mike [{at}ostic.demon.co.uk], 2003-12-24

"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in message
news:uqfok7$23bbg$1@dont-email.me...
> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
> news:uOscBRWCmJslFwa0@255soft.uk...
>> pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI
>
> OK, your code at the bottom of four sig has got me intrigued. It's not a
> simple ROT code (neither the default ROT13 or any other ROT1-25).

Bollocks! I've just worked it out. All the right letters but in reverse
order. Too simple for words ;-)

(and I meant "your", not "four")