Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  nodelist  faq  login

Usage: fortune -P [] -a [xsz] [Q: [file]] [rKe9] -v6[+] dataspec ... inputdir


computers / comp.ai.philosophy / Re: Knowledge's Discretion

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Knowledge's DiscretionJeffrey Rubard
`- Re: Knowledge's DiscretionDon Stockbauer

1
Subject: Re: Knowledge's Discretion
From: Jeffrey Rubard
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 22:32 UTC
References: 1 2 3
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4515:: with SMTP id t21mr4060768qkp.525.1643322750175;
Thu, 27 Jan 2022 14:32:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:558a:: with SMTP id j132mr9306570ybb.85.1643322749941;
Thu, 27 Jan 2022 14:32:29 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 14:32:29 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <33jissF40jrjkU1@individual.net>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=208.71.200.99; posting-account=0pheVgoAAACKj674Kl3qdRoiYysIz_ok
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.71.200.99
References: <1103742677.643355.161680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
<fwkyd.12583$Z%3.689198@news20.bellglobal.com> <33jissF40jrjkU1@individual.net>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <1c480158-009b-4df1-94f2-e229179fd551n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Knowledge's Discretion
From: jeffreyd...@gmail.com (Jeffrey Rubard)
Injection-Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 22:32:30 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 29
View all headers
On Thursday, December 30, 2004 at 3:56:13 PM UTC-8, ernobe wrote:
.... An AI system that can do the sorts of things Jim does to
prove his claim that he knows math would be quite useful IMO.
It would be no use if the system could prove that it knows math, but could not
test others for their knowledge of math. Knowledge representation of some form
would be required here, because it would have to take into account the
differences in the ability to use math, set at appropriate limits beyond which
no testing is done. For example, it wouldn't test Jim on whether he can
multiply 6 digit numbers in under a fraction of a second, and it would have to
test him for abilities that are peculiar to human beings, but only such as
pertain to their use of computers, not such as they evince among themselves.
Perhaps 'knowledge representation' is not the best term to use, since the
abilities it tests in human beings or in anything else are defined by humans
themselves, so in effect it would be more of an identification process rather
than its "knowing" something. Likewise, it could not really test a human for
its knowledge of math, but could for example "know" that Jim is working on a
certain math formula and keep track of his progress. Now it doesn't seem
possible that if friend of Jim is working on a similar formula that it could
investigate areas of application for the formulas to work together. The symbols
used in algebraic formulas are specific to the formulas, and the purpose of the
formula is to represent a change in that which the symbols represent. Change
is inherent in the nature of things and computers calculate the nature of the
change, but changes cause things to transform themselves into each other so
that nothing remains of their previous state, therefore how can a computer use
certain formulas to derive new ones that bear no resemblance to them?

--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe

2022 Update: I guess you should look for your epistemology elsewhere.


Subject: Re: Knowledge's Discretion
From: Don Stockbauer
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 12:57 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2782:0:b0:37c:2d45:a52f with SMTP id n124-20020a1c2782000000b0037c2d45a52fmr18096536wmn.17.1645361875505;
Sun, 20 Feb 2022 04:57:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:5bc5:0:b0:2d6:5659:73c2 with SMTP id
p188-20020a815bc5000000b002d6565973c2mr15878163ywb.121.1645361873902; Sun, 20
Feb 2022 04:57:53 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.niel.me!pasdenom.info!usenet-fr.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 04:57:53 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <1c480158-009b-4df1-94f2-e229179fd551n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:387:f:b15:0:0:0:9;
posting-account=iBgNeAoAAADRhzuSC4Ai7MUeMmxtwlM7
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:387:f:b15:0:0:0:9
References: <1103742677.643355.161680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
<fwkyd.12583$Z%3.689198@news20.bellglobal.com> <33jissF40jrjkU1@individual.net>
<1c480158-009b-4df1-94f2-e229179fd551n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3e634bd6-9ed7-4c31-9e39-81f8fdba1634n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Knowledge's Discretion
From: donstock...@hotmail.com (Don Stockbauer)
Injection-Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 12:57:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
View all headers
On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 4:32:31 PM UTC-6, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
On Thursday, December 30, 2004 at 3:56:13 PM UTC-8, ernobe wrote:
.... An AI system that can do the sorts of things Jim does to
prove his claim that he knows math would be quite useful IMO.
It would be no use if the system could prove that it knows math, but could not
test others for their knowledge of math. Knowledge representation of some form
would be required here, because it would have to take into account the
differences in the ability to use math, set at appropriate limits beyond which
no testing is done. For example, it wouldn't test Jim on whether he can
multiply 6 digit numbers in under a fraction of a second, and it would have to
test him for abilities that are peculiar to human beings, but only such as
pertain to their use of computers, not such as they evince among themselves.
Perhaps 'knowledge representation' is not the best term to use, since the
abilities it tests in human beings or in anything else are defined by humans
themselves, so in effect it would be more of an identification process rather
than its "knowing" something. Likewise, it could not really test a human for
its knowledge of math, but could for example "know" that Jim is working on a
certain math formula and keep track of his progress. Now it doesn't seem
possible that if friend of Jim is working on a similar formula that it could
investigate areas of application for the formulas to work together. The symbols
used in algebraic formulas are specific to the formulas, and the purpose of the
formula is to represent a change in that which the symbols represent. Change
is inherent in the nature of things and computers calculate the nature of the
change, but changes cause things to transform themselves into each other so
that nothing remains of their previous state, therefore how can a computer use
certain formulas to derive new ones that bear no resemblance to them?

--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
2022 Update: I guess you should look for your epistemology elsewhere.

You people need to put some 1000 Island dressing on your writings.


1
rocksolid light 0.7.2
clearneti2ptor