Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

We are MicroSoft. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. (Attributed to B.G., Gill Bates)


computers / comp.ai.philosophy / Simulating halt decider embedded_H must abort its simulation of ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩

SubjectAuthor
* Simulating halt decider embedded_H must abort its simulolcott
`- Re: Simulating halt decider embedded_H must abort itsolcott

1
Simulating halt decider embedded_H must abort its simulation of ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩

<CK6dnQzojJ6pbIH_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=8008&group=comp.ai.philosophy#8008

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.theory comp.ai.philosophy sci.logic sci.math
Followup: comp.theory
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 09:58:44 -0600
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 09:58:41 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.6.1
Subject: Simulating_halt_decider_embedded_H_must_abort_its_simul
ation of ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
Content-Language: en-US
Newsgroups: comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.logic,sci.math
References: <svhq5d$9r8$1@dont-email.me>
<c445f1cb-491c-4d82-be58-6190508fc474n@googlegroups.com>
From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
Followup-To: comp.theory
In-Reply-To: <c445f1cb-491c-4d82-be58-6190508fc474n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <CK6dnQzojJ6pbIH_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
Lines: 47
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace: sv3-q6OmVjHHVxV6AA9/4VniJhaMZzI11aM2ops4OCqafDttgmOVoLACU3dCPHqdXoWtoSJOwXKJ2pOxiB0!3UvdUewyDnzzUUrZWa1V9HFPboKY+8id1HUjzWlSUbN4gu4ZmofGtG7ikjcStEqrC5/XnwIytzoW
X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 3444
 by: olcott - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 15:58 UTC

On 2/28/2022 8:47 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Monday, 28 February 2022 at 06:30:09 UTC, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>> There recently occurred a two week period when Richard was virtually the
>> only corespondent to interact with PO. There were several dozen messages
>> a day written by the pair.
>>
>> This is the only viable path to bring PO some good feelings about his
>> life and worthiness. Unless his decades of repetitious behavior have
>> totally numbed him, his sufferings must be great. Even a shadow of
>> reality leaking into his consciousness must cause agony. So let's get
>> busy and save the little fellow.
>>
>> Volunteers needed; apply here.
>>
> It's a technical newsgroup. We can only speculate about how another poster
> is feeling. Whilst I have offered non-technical advice to people (not PO) in
> the past, I've ony done so briefly. Here isn't really the place for it.
>
> I haven't replied to PO for quite some time because I don't see anything new,
> and there's nothing left to say which I haven't said many times already.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358009319_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V3

Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qx ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qx ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn

PEOPLE AGREE WITH THIS
(1) It is the case that the simulated input ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ to the copy of the
Linz H at Ĥ.qx (where H is a simulating halt decider) would have to
abort its simulation to prevent infinite simulation.

YET FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS FOLLOWS FROM (1)
(2) It is also a fact the the above proves that this input specifies a
non-halting sequences of configurations.

That people cannot understand that (2) follows form (1) is like they
have been hit in the face with a Boston cream pie and deny that there is
any pie, as this pie drips from their face.

--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott

Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Simulating halt decider embedded_H must abort its simulation of ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩

<O5mdnc3SuKtWtoD_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=8012&group=comp.ai.philosophy#8012

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.theory comp.ai.philosophy sci.logic sci.math
Followup: comp.theory
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:08:43 -0600
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:08:43 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.6.1
Subject: Re:_Simulating_halt_decider_embedded_H_must_abort_its
simulation of ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
Content-Language: en-US
Newsgroups: comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.logic,sci.math
References: <svhq5d$9r8$1@dont-email.me>
<c445f1cb-491c-4d82-be58-6190508fc474n@googlegroups.com>
<CK6dnQzojJ6pbIH_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
<49e05ecb-5d62-44ee-bea7-f1ac48f15e32n@googlegroups.com>
Followup-To: comp.theory
From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
In-Reply-To: <49e05ecb-5d62-44ee-bea7-f1ac48f15e32n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <O5mdnc3SuKtWtoD_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
Lines: 32
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace: sv3-mHsyeOaF3JGRbwh39HpJXdmUoYJAu6C00Q0pg7n5aRwJb/SZkPUTTg7Jj1BtWtyVrmrWyABWhbjVxw1!cdlX/D+p0IV79tq3+30OzBOWpWd8ub3SLi2XoFPuTk78wgt+flOUEzP0gzFVrt7lHkgKvpLYoZGO
X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 2808
 by: olcott - Mon, 28 Feb 2022 20:08 UTC

On 2/28/2022 1:49 PM, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:58:51 AM UTC-8, olcott wrote:
>>
>> PEOPLE AGREE WITH THIS
>> (1) It is the case that the simulated input ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ to the copy of the
>> Linz H at Ĥ.qx (where H is a simulating halt decider) would have to
>> abort its simulation to prevent infinite simulation.
>
> I don't.
>
> The copy of H is a halting Turing Machine so cannot go infinite.

If the copy of H at Ĥ.qx never aborted its simulation then:

When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ1⟩ to ⟨Ĥ2⟩ then embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ1⟩ ⟨Ĥ2⟩

Then these steps would keep repeating:
Ĥ1 copies its input ⟨Ĥ2⟩ to ⟨Ĥ3⟩ then embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ2⟩ ⟨Ĥ3⟩
Ĥ2 copies its input ⟨Ĥ3⟩ to ⟨Ĥ4⟩ then embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ3⟩ ⟨Ĥ4⟩
Ĥ3 copies its input ⟨Ĥ4⟩ to ⟨Ĥ5⟩ then embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ4⟩ ⟨Ĥ5⟩...

Maybe you could get up to speed if you read my short paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358009319_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V3

--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott

Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor