(This may not be 7-specific, but I'll ask here since I'm using 7. [32
bit Home Premium. VLC 3.0.19 "Vetinari".])

If I'm playing a video file in VLC, I can bring up a page of metadata -
I usually do it by Ctrl-I, but you can mouse it via Tools | Media
Information.

It has about 13 fields; the one headed Title usually has, the first time
you do this, the name of the file (including the extension) in it.
There's a Close button bottom right (Esc will also close).

All the fields let you change them. (The one labelled Date only allows
digits, up to four - obviously intended for a year.)

As soon as you change any one, a Save Metadata button appears next to
the Close button. If you Close (or Esc) without first Saving, any
changes are (I think) lost.

The puzzling thing is, although it seems to let you change any or all of
the fields at will, if you Save, Close, then exit VLC and come in again,
only some of them seem to stick: Title, Artist, Album, Date, Genre, and
Comments do; Language, Publisher, and Copyright don't. I'm not sure what
the _purpose_ of the Now Playing field is, so I haven't played with that
one.

Any thoughts?

I've found _some_ video files don't let me change any of the fields -
well, they don't stick. I mostly use .mp4 files, and it's mostly files
of a different type that don't hold the changes, but I've found the odd
..mp4 ones that don't, too (particularly, I _think_, large ones). The
_first_ time I make changes and click Save Metadata, the file - if it's
playing - usually freezes (well, the audio cuts off, and the video
becomes vertical continuations from however far through a frame it was
when I clicked, though the progress bar keeps moving); usually, if that
doesn't happen, I know the changes haven't been saved. (Further changes
_later_ don't usually cause the freeze; I presume the first time it's
changing the _format_ of the file to add the new metadata, and
subsequent times it's already in that format.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If, after hearing my songs, just one human being is inspired to say something
nasty to a friend, or perhaps to strike a loved one, it will all have been
worth the while. - Liner notes, "Songs & More Songs By Tom Lehrer", Rhino
Records, 1997.

On 4/13/2024 10:50 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> (This may not be 7-specific, but I'll ask here since I'm using 7. [32 bit Home Premium. VLC 3.0.19 "Vetinari".])
>
> If I'm playing a video file in VLC, I can bring up a page of metadata - I usually do it by Ctrl-I, but you can mouse it via Tools | Media Information.
>
> It has about 13 fields; the one headed Title usually has, the first time you do this, the name of the file (including the extension) in it. There's a Close button bottom right (Esc will also close).
>
> All the fields let you change them. (The one labelled Date only allows digits, up to four - obviously intended for a year.)
>
> As soon as you change any one, a Save Metadata button appears next to the Close button. If you Close (or Esc) without first Saving, any changes are (I think) lost.
>
> The puzzling thing is, although it seems to let you change any or all of the fields at will, if you Save, Close, then exit VLC and come in again, only some of them seem to stick: Title, Artist, Album, Date, Genre, and Comments do; Language, Publisher, and Copyright don't. I'm not sure what the _purpose_ of the Now Playing field is, so I haven't played with that one.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> I've found _some_ video files don't let me change any of the fields - well, they don't stick. I mostly use .mp4 files, and it's mostly files of a different type that don't hold the changes, but I've found the odd .mp4 ones that don't, too (particularly, I _think_, large ones). The _first_ time I make changes and click Save Metadata, the file - if it's playing - usually freezes (well, the audio cuts off, and the video becomes vertical continuations from however far through a frame it was when I clicked, though the progress bar keeps moving); usually, if that doesn't happen, I know the changes haven't been saved. (Further changes _later_ don't usually cause the freeze; I presume the first time it's changing the _format_ of the file to add the new metadata, and subsequent times it's already in that format.)

For helper applications, I would either use HxD Hex Editor, or I would
use the ffprobe that comes with the ffmpeg download.

C:\FFMPEG\bin\ffprobe -show_packets -show_data F:\high.mp4 > D:\Temp\high_ffprobe_out.txt

# This one keeps track of IPB frames in the movie.

C:\FFMPEG\bin\ffprobe -show_frames F:\high.mp4 > D:\Temp\ffprobe_frames.txt

You know that some file formats are "packetized". The packet format might be:
4CC-code, Length, Data. When a packet-player encounters a 4CC code it
does not recognize (like it could be "EXIF"), it should ignore it.
This allows "adding stuff" to files, after a fashion.

To be useful, metadata should be stored at a known offset. No program
wants to read an entire 6GB video, to find your "Title" string.
Beginning or End of file is logical.

With FFProbe, and a small MP4, you should be able to make a text
file you can search in Notepad. Processing a 6GB video this way,
the output text file would be too big to be useful.

If you use a video editing program, it could "lose" your metadata,
so once you become attached to this method, there could be
additional steps when editing. Some methods are "standard enough",
this is not a concern. But usually topics like this, on web sites,
there is a lot of moaning.

Now, the funny ones, are Media Center. Where people spend hundreds of
hours adding Album covers, liner notes, you name it they've added it.
Then "something happens" and Media Center erases all the "extras".
The howls that generates :-) So one rule of thumb is "the computer
has no sense of humor and hates your edits". It always seems the
software has no features... but it knows how to erase things it
does not like.

The audio codec and the video codec, are the functional parts of a movie.
The packetized video codec, the 4CC codes it's got, this is where
I would expect the metadata to be. It's unclear how the "header" of
a container like MP4 works. Maybe it actually has specific/static fields
with slots for your metadata. As an explorer, you can examine
the vid for structure. And take your best guess as to how the
metadata is stored. Since FFProbe knows something of the structure, even
if the entire format is not broken out in the FFProbe output, it
should tell you a lot about the majority of the video. If it just "hops over"
the container header, you can cover that aspect with your HxD hex editor.

Paul

On 4/13/2024 7:50 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> (This may not be 7-specific, but I'll ask here since I'm using 7. [32
> bit Home Premium. VLC 3.0.19 "Vetinari".])

[snipped]

> The puzzling thing is, although it seems to let you change any or all of
> the fields at will, if you Save, Close, then exit VLC and come in again,
> only some of them seem to stick: Title, Artist, Album, Date, Genre, and
> Comments do; Language, Publisher, and Copyright don't. I'm not sure what
> the _purpose_ of the Now Playing field is, so I haven't played with that
> one.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> I've found _some_ video files don't let me change any of the fields -
> well, they don't stick. I mostly use .mp4 files, and it's mostly files
> of a different type that don't hold the changes, but I've found the odd
> .mp4 ones that don't, too (particularly, I _think_, large ones). The
> _first_ time I make changes and click Save Metadata, the file - if it's
> playing - usually freezes (well, the audio cuts off, and the video
> becomes vertical continuations from however far through a frame it was
> when I clicked, though the progress bar keeps moving); usually, if that
> doesn't happen, I know the changes haven't been saved. (Further changes
> _later_ don't usually cause the freeze; I presume the first time it's
> changing the _format_ of the file to add the new metadata, and
> subsequent times it's already in that format.)

Changing (editing) Publisher or Copyright are likely illegal in the U.S.
and might also be illegal in the U.K.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Demonstrators worldwide are demanding that Israel stop
fighting in Gaza. Why does it seem that no one is demanding
that Hamas stop fighting? And where are the demonstrations
against Russia fighting in the Ukraine.

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> (This may not be 7-specific, but I'll ask here since I'm using 7. [32
> bit Home Premium. VLC 3.0.19 "Vetinari".])
>
> If I'm playing a video file in VLC, I can bring up a page of metadata -
> I usually do it by Ctrl-I, but you can mouse it via Tools | Media
> Information.
>
> It has about 13 fields; the one headed Title usually has, the first time
> you do this, the name of the file (including the extension) in it.
> There's a Close button bottom right (Esc will also close).
>
> All the fields let you change them. (The one labelled Date only allows
> digits, up to four - obviously intended for a year.)
>
> As soon as you change any one, a Save Metadata button appears next to
> the Close button. If you Close (or Esc) without first Saving, any
> changes are (I think) lost.
>
> The puzzling thing is, although it seems to let you change any or all of
> the fields at will, if you Save, Close, then exit VLC and come in again,
> only some of them seem to stick: Title, Artist, Album, Date, Genre, and
> Comments do; Language, Publisher, and Copyright don't. I'm not sure what
> the _purpose_ of the Now Playing field is, so I haven't played with that
> one.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> I've found _some_ video files don't let me change any of the fields -
> well, they don't stick. I mostly use .mp4 files, and it's mostly files
> of a different type that don't hold the changes, but I've found the odd
> .mp4 ones that don't, too (particularly, I _think_, large ones). The
> _first_ time I make changes and click Save Metadata, the file - if it's
> playing - usually freezes (well, the audio cuts off, and the video
> becomes vertical continuations from however far through a frame it was
> when I clicked, though the progress bar keeps moving); usually, if that
> doesn't happen, I know the changes haven't been saved. (Further changes
> _later_ don't usually cause the freeze; I presume the first time it's
> changing the _format_ of the file to add the new metadata, and
> subsequent times it's already in that format.)

There is tag name and tag description. You cannot edit the tag
description. You edit the tag name (to change its string value). What
File Explorer shows are tag descriptions. It can edit some metadata if
the tag name is known.

https://exiftool.org/faq.html#Q2

Exiftool
https://exiftool.org/

This is a command-line tool. Some users still use ffmpeg to capture
video streams, but learning or discovering the command-line switches and
arguments can be very daunting, and not likely can all be memorized.
So, there are GUI front ends to ffmpeg, like yt-dl (Youtude Downloader),
but usually the GUI front ends don't support every switch and arg
possible when using ffmpeg.exe at the command line. Plus using a GUI
front end still means you have to understand a hell of lot of what
ffmpeg can do. I use jaksta Media Recorder which is payware. They
support a lot of ffmpeg's options, but not all. They also use yt-dl,
but they adapt it to work at sites where yt-dl would otherwise fail.
After reporting a site that doesn't work for capture, they can give an
answer in a couple days (a workaround), or create a special code fix
that makes their product work at the problematic site. Free is nice,
but having responsive tech support that makes repairs in a few days
keeps the product usable rather than rely on peers to see if they can
figure out a fix.

The exiftool is one guy's project. There is a web-based forum to ask
help. The author says he visits the forums, plus he does have an e-mail
contact (look in the README file in the distro).

You'll have to do a lot of reading to figure out how to effectively use
exiftool. There's a learning curve. Besides a lot of info at his web
site, more docs are available at his Resources page. For example, he
mentions "ExifTool will not rewrite a file it it detects a significant
problem with the file format." His FAQs cover some of those issues.

There are several GUI front ends to ExifTool. Up to you to decide which
one you like. He has a GUI front end to his exiftool at:

https://exiftool.org/gui/

I suspect the GUI will facilitate using ExifTool, but I've not used it.
I have not use exiftool for a very long time, but only remembered it
when you asked about editing metadata. I'm pretty sure a lot of what I
learned years ago has been forgotten. Need to repurpose those engrams
for more recent information.

In message <uveesr$3408e$1@dont-email.me> at Sat, 13 Apr 2024 13:20:25,
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes
>On 4/13/2024 10:50 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>> If I'm playing a video file in VLC, I can bring up a page of metadata
[]
> It has about 13 fields; the one headed Title usually has, the first
[]
>> All the fields let you change them. (The one labelled Date only
[]
> The puzzling thing is, although it seems to let you change any or all
>>of the fields at will, if you Save, Close, then exit VLC and come in
>>again, only some of them seem to stick: Title, Artist, Album, Date,
>>Genre, and Comments do; Language, Publisher, and Copyright don't. I'm
>>not sure what the _purpose_ of the Now Playing field is, so I haven't
>>played with that one.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
[]
>For helper applications, I would either use HxD Hex Editor, or I would
>use the ffprobe that comes with the ffmpeg download.

I was trying to avoid "why have a dog and bark yourself"; VLC seems
fairly widely-known and respected.
>
> C:\FFMPEG\bin\ffprobe -show_packets -show_data F:\high.mp4 >
>D:\Temp\high_ffprobe_out.txt
>
> # This one keeps track of IPB frames in the movie.
>
> C:\FFMPEG\bin\ffprobe -show_frames F:\high.mp4 > D:\Temp\ffprobe_frames.txt

I'm not making any changes to the audio or video aspects of the file at
this point, just trying to add metadata.
>
>You know that some file formats are "packetized". The packet format might be:

Yes, I know that at least .mp4 and .avi - probably others - can contain
a wide variety of audio and video formats, so I presume metadata too.

>4CC-code, Length, Data. When a packet-player encounters a 4CC code it
>does not recognize (like it could be "EXIF"), it should ignore it.
>This allows "adding stuff" to files, after a fashion.
>
>To be useful, metadata should be stored at a known offset. No program
>wants to read an entire 6GB video, to find your "Title" string.
>Beginning or End of file is logical.

I've noticed, if the file is on a slow medium (e. g. external), after
clicking Save Metadata, it takes a noticeable time for the Save button
to disappear, and I _think_ the pause _is_ related to the size of the
file. So I assume that, at least the first time I add metadata, it is
resaving the whole file, with a metadata chunk added (probably at
beginning or end, as you say). Subsequent changes to the metadata don't
seem to take nearly as long, so I assume it's only modifying the
metadata part, rather than rewriting the whole file.
>
>With FFProbe, and a small MP4, you should be able to make a text
>file you can search in Notepad. Processing a 6GB video this way,
>the output text file would be too big to be useful.

I was _hoping_ to avoid doing that soft of forensics - hoping someone
knew the answer, i. e. what VLC actually does.
>
>If you use a video editing program, it could "lose" your metadata,

Indeed. I'm not doing any video editing (in the normal sense) at this
point; just using video files I've downloaded,

>so once you become attached to this method, there could be
>additional steps when editing. Some methods are "standard enough",
>this is not a concern. But usually topics like this, on web sites,
>there is a lot of moaning.

I've seen this with images - many (possibly even most) image
manipulation softwares corrupt and/or blank EXIF and other data in
images. (I use IrfanView, which doesn't - it even [optionally, but a
remembered setting] keeps the date of an image if you change it.)
>
>Now, the funny ones, are Media Center. Where people spend hundreds of
>hours adding Album covers, liner notes, you name it they've added it.
>Then "something happens" and Media Center erases all the "extras".
>The howls that generates :-) So one rule of thumb is "the computer
>has no sense of humor and hates your edits". It always seems the
>software has no features... but it knows how to erase things it
>does not like.
>
>The audio codec and the video codec, are the functional parts of a movie.
>The packetized video codec, the 4CC codes it's got, this is where
>I would expect the metadata to be. It's unclear how the "header" of
>a container like MP4 works. Maybe it actually has specific/static fields
>with slots for your metadata. As an explorer, you can examine
>the vid for structure. And take your best guess as to how the
>metadata is stored. Since FFProbe knows something of the structure, even
>if the entire format is not broken out in the FFProbe output, it
>should tell you a lot about the majority of the video. If it just "hops over"
>the container header, you can cover that aspect with your HxD hex editor.
>
> Paul

For what it's worth, if I add track number, artist, title, album, and
comment to an MP4 video, then "extract original audio" with Pazera (just
an ffmpeg wrapper, but I use it because it's _clear_ that it extracts
the audio without transcoding: that's not _clear_ in most other wrappers
I've tried), it nearly always comes out as an M4A file (very
occasionally mp3, but I don't think I've had that for a long time),
where those fields - as viewed in WinAmp - are retained as I set them in
VLC, apart from it does something odd with linefeeds in the comment
field. (If I convert the M4A to MP3 in GoldWave, the fields - again as
viewed in WinAmp - the fields are retained. (MP3 has a copyright field,
but as I'm not able to save that in VLC, it's not surprising it remains
blank in MP3.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

By most scientific estimates sustained, useful fusion is ten years in
the future - and will be ten years in the future for the next fifty
years or more. - "Hamadryad", ~2016-4-4

In message <uvemi1$35l80$1@dont-email.me> at Sat, 13 Apr 2024 12:31:10,
David E. Ross <nobody@nowhere.invalid> writes
[]
>Changing (editing) Publisher or Copyright are likely illegal in the U.S.
>and might also be illegal in the U.K.
>
An interesting thought that hadn't occurred to me!

I'm not changing from one thing to another, I'm adding (or trying to)
information to those fields which are always blank in downloaded files;
however, changing from blank is arguably still a change. Though I think
I'm actually adding the fields - if not the whole metadata structure -
to a file that starts out not having them.

FWIW I can add, and change, the fields with those titles in WinAmp (when
editing MP3 or M4A files), but of course they may not have any
connection to similar files in VLC. (I say "in VLC" rather than "in
MP4", because I've been unable to save them at all.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Address the chair!" "There isn't a chair, there's only a rock!" "Well, call
it a chair!" "Why not call it a rock?" (First series, fit the sixth.)

In message <10zbpwov8aho5.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Sat, 13 Apr 2024 17:08:05,
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[]
>> If I'm playing a video file in VLC, I can bring up a page of metadata -
[]
>> All the fields let you change them. (The one labelled Date only allows
[]
>> The puzzling thing is, although it seems to let you change any or all of
>> the fields at will, if you Save, Close, then exit VLC and come in again,
>> only some of them seem to stick: Title, Artist, Album, Date, Genre, and
[]
>There is tag name and tag description. You cannot edit the tag
>description. You edit the tag name (to change its string value). What

I of course understand that: I know I can't change "Artist" to
"Performer", for example, but I can change the _name_ of the Artist (or
Performer!).

>File Explorer shows are tag descriptions. It can edit some metadata if
>the tag name is known.
>
>https://exiftool.org/faq.html#Q2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://exiftool.org/faq.html#Q2
>
>Exiftool
>https://exiftool.org/

(I thought EXIF was specific to _image_ metadata, but I might be wrong
about that.)
>
>This is a command-line tool. Some users still use ffmpeg to capture
>video streams, but learning or discovering the command-line switches and
>arguments can be very daunting, and not likely can all be memorized.
>So, there are GUI front ends to ffmpeg, like yt-dl (Youtude Downloader),
>but usually the GUI front ends don't support every switch and arg
>possible when using ffmpeg.exe at the command line. Plus using a GUI
>front end still means you have to understand a hell of lot of what
>ffmpeg can do. I use jaksta Media Recorder which is payware. They
>support a lot of ffmpeg's options, but not all. They also use yt-dl,
>but they adapt it to work at sites where yt-dl would otherwise fail.
>After reporting a site that doesn't work for capture, they can give an
>answer in a couple days (a workaround), or create a special code fix
>that makes their product work at the problematic site. Free is nice,
>but having responsive tech support that makes repairs in a few days
>keeps the product usable rather than rely on peers to see if they can
>figure out a fix.
>
>The exiftool is one guy's project. There is a web-based forum to ask
>help. The author says he visits the forums, plus he does have an e-mail
>contact (look in the README file in the distro).

Like you, I _often_ like to use a GUI front-end rather than learning the
various and sometimes arcane switches to a command-line utility. (Though
I usually use yt-dlp straight, as it usually works without any extra
parameters.)
>
>You'll have to do a lot of reading to figure out how to effectively use
>exiftool. There's a learning curve. Besides a lot of info at his web
>site, more docs are available at his Resources page. For example, he
>mentions "ExifTool will not rewrite a file it it detects a significant
>problem with the file format." His FAQs cover some of those issues.

I don't know if VLC uses exiftool. My query was really, does anyone know
why I can bring up a set of fields in a GUI - VLC - and _appear_ to
change them, but if I then click the "Save Metadata" button, close VLC,
then open the file again _in the same tool_ (or GUI if you wish) - VLC -
some of the fields have changed to what I set them to, others have
reverted to blank. (I don't think I've ever had those fields come up as
something else, other than "Encoded by".)
>
>There are several GUI front ends to ExifTool. Up to you to decide which
>one you like. He has a GUI front end to his exiftool at:
>
>https://exiftool.org/gui/
>
>I suspect the GUI will facilitate using ExifTool, but I've not used it.
>I have not use exiftool for a very long time, but only remembered it
>when you asked about editing metadata. I'm pretty sure a lot of what I

I don't know if exiftool (with it without its GUI) is the right tool for
_video file_ metadata.

>learned years ago has been forgotten. Need to repurpose those engrams
>for more recent information.

Ah, the Sherlock Holmes approach. Unfortunately, I don't find my wetware
works like that - I sometimes can't forget stuff I want to, to make room
for new. Conversely, often enough, I find _both_ the old _and_ the new
are lost!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

One of my tricks as an armchair futurist is to "predict" things that are
already happening and watch people tell me it will never happen.
Scott Adams, 2015-3-9

On 4/13/2024 3:31 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

>
> Changing (editing) Publisher or Copyright are likely illegal in the U.S.
> and might also be illegal in the U.K.
>

I think he's just trying to put enough label in there, for
some indexing purpose.

With Federated Search on windows, a specific subset of the
fields are indexed. Later, you could enter

title:"Stayin Alive"

and the Beegees tune would show up in File Explorer. That's
the purpose of adding a bit of metadata to an unlabeled track.

When you rip media on a computer, some of the software
offers to go out and use GraceNotes or other means, to look
up the album and label all the tracks for you. This can give
you a set of metadata, without doing any work. It's possible
WMP had this, but it all depends on whether the service it
uses, is still paid for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote

"iTunes, Media Go, Sonicstage, Groove Music and Windows Media Player
all use or have used Gracenote's CD track identification services."

Even though my Federated Search was turned off (the index is set to "nothing"),
the machine did a brute force search for a track that should be on C:

title:robot

and this is what if found. This was ripped by WMP perhaps.
An interesting thing, is the Copyright field was left blank
by the software (because this is after-the-fact labeling
not done by the "owner"). The track would have less metadata,
if I'd unticked the box to identify the track.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/qMvLD7Y0/properties-ripped-sample-track.gif

Paul

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> I don't know if exiftool (with it without its GUI) is the right tool for
> _video file_ metadata.

I lists MP4, AVI, DIVX, FLV, MKV, MOV, QT, VOB, WEBM as supported, and
those are video formats.

In message <uvffff$3e7ij$1@dont-email.me> at Sat, 13 Apr 2024 22:36:29,
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes
>On 4/13/2024 3:31 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>
>>
>> Changing (editing) Publisher or Copyright are likely illegal in the U.S.
>> and might also be illegal in the U.K.
>>
>
>I think he's just trying to put enough label in there, for
>some indexing purpose.

Yes. I'm not even sure why I do it - it just seems to me that if there's
a place in (mostly mp4, m4a, and mp3) files for track title, artist,
album, year, and comment, to use them. I usually record (in the comment
field, or mp3 has its own field for it) the URL where I got the file. I
often put the lyrics in the comment field too, if it's that sort of
file, or background information about the song and/or artist, film, or
whatever. I like the _concept_ of metadata, first having come across it
in the context of image files (such as .JPG): I like the idea of the
data being part of the file, even if it is renamed, moved, or even
emailed (or shared some other way); I say this because I encountered (on
someone else's system) some system which let you create (photo)
"albums", such as of the pictures of your dog, cat, or child, but that
simply moving or renaming a file broke that (because it relied on data
stored separately from the file). I use the comment field, for example,
to identify the people in a group photo (such as a wedding photo; I am a
genealogist).
>
>With Federated Search on windows, a specific subset of the
>fields are indexed. Later, you could enter
>
> title:"Stayin Alive"
>
>and the Beegees tune would show up in File Explorer. That's
>the purpose of adding a bit of metadata to an unlabeled track.

Yes, file explorer knows about some of the fields, and will display
them. (If you create a new folder and it decides they are mostly audio
files it will add those columns automatically, but you can always add
them manually.) Presumably the list of metadata fields that explorer
"knows about" is added to with each version; the one that comes with
Windows 7 "knows about" quite a few of the ones in the MP3 file format,
I'm not sure about movie formats. But I use file-specific utilities if I
want to check the metadata - IrfanView for images, WinAmp for sound
files, VLC for video files. (I use those utilities mainly to view/play
the files; they just happen to have metadata view/edit features.)
>
>When you rip media on a computer, some of the software
>offers to go out and use GraceNotes or other means, to look
>up the album and label all the tracks for you. This can give
>you a set of metadata, without doing any work. It's possible
>WMP had this, but it all depends on whether the service it
>uses, is still paid for.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote

Interesting; I knew (or had the feeling) that there was some connection
between Gracenote and CDDB; that explains it.
>
> "iTunes, Media Go, Sonicstage, Groove Music and Windows Media Player
> all use or have used Gracenote's CD track identification services."

A useful facility while it works; any such database access hard-coded
into software will of course only continue to work as long as the
database remains in the same place, and also free. For those reasons I
like to have my own copy of the metadata (compared to the size of an
audio or video file, or even many image files, it makes negligible
difference to the size - sometimes none if the file format has the
fields coded into it anyway, though I think that only applies to the
ID3v1 tags in audio and some of the image ones, which have a maximum or
fixed size). There's also the chance that the online data may be in
error, for example for more obscure CDs the identification (which is
based on the table of contents) may point to the wrong CD, or even by
someone mischievously having uploaded the wrong data!
>
>Even though my Federated Search was turned off (the index is set to "nothing"),
>the machine did a brute force search for a track that should be on C:
>
> title:robot
>
>and this is what if found. This was ripped by WMP perhaps.
>An interesting thing, is the Copyright field was left blank
>by the software (because this is after-the-fact labeling
>not done by the "owner"). The track would have less metadata,
>if I'd unticked the box to identify the track.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/qMvLD7Y0/properties-ripped-sample-track.gif
>
> Paul

yt-dlp gets some information - if used with YouTube as a source (many
people think, from its name, that it only works with YouTube, but in
fact it works with almost any URL that has a video on it) - from the
title in the YouTube page, but puts that in the filename it creates,
rather than in the metadata fields therein (in fact I think it creates
mp4 files without the metadata block added, from the way VLC behaves
when I _first_ add such data). [I just had a thought - maybe yt-dlp can
do something with metadata given the appropriate switch; but I've just
looked through the help file I have for it and the only occurrence of
meta therein refers to "metadata files", which I take to be separate
files (similar to subtitle files), rather than anything to do with
embedded fields.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, Video (I came, I saw, I'll watch it again later) - Mik from S+AS
Limited (mik@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998

In message <1d9pjcybx4qh2$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Sat, 13 Apr 2024
22:34:15, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> I don't know if exiftool (with it without its GUI) is the right tool for
>> _video file_ metadata.
>
>I lists MP4, AVI, DIVX, FLV, MKV, MOV, QT, VOB, WEBM as supported, and
>those are video formats.

Thanks. I've now installed ExifToolGUI, and it certainly looks like the
Swiss Army Knife for _looking at_ metadata.

• I'd like to add it as an "open with" option to my right-click menu,
but I guess I can look up how to do that.

• It seems excellent for _looking at_ metadata; I can't see how to
_edit_ it yet. (Maybe the GUI doesn't offer that option. Which might
also explain not seeing the copyright field when I looked at some mp4
files, since I don't think I have any with anything in that field [I
certainly haven't been able to add to it in VLC, though it _shows_ the
empty field]; I think it only shows fields with something in them.)

[I just tried looking with it at an MP3 file where I knew the copyright
field _does_ have something in it, and it does indeed show that content;
however, I don't know if the field of that name is in the same "place"
in both MP3 and MP4 files.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Do ministers do more than lay people?

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> In message <1d9pjcybx4qh2$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Sat, 13 Apr 2024
> 22:34:15, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
>>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if exiftool (with it without its GUI) is the right tool for
>>> _video file_ metadata.
>>
>>I lists MP4, AVI, DIVX, FLV, MKV, MOV, QT, VOB, WEBM as supported, and
>>those are video formats.
>
> Thanks. I've now installed ExifToolGUI, and it certainly looks like the
> Swiss Army Knife for _looking at_ metadata.
>
> • I'd like to add it as an "open with" option to my right-click menu,
> but I guess I can look up how to do that.
>
> • It seems excellent for _looking at_ metadata; I can't see how to
> _edit_ it yet. (Maybe the GUI doesn't offer that option. Which might
> also explain not seeing the copyright field when I looked at some mp4
> files, since I don't think I have any with anything in that field [I
> certainly haven't been able to add to it in VLC, though it _shows_ the
> empty field]; I think it only shows fields with something in them.)
>
> [I just tried looking with it at an MP3 file where I knew the copyright
> field _does_ have something in it, and it does indeed show that content;
> however, I don't know if the field of that name is in the same "place"
> in both MP3 and MP4 files.]

I have read that installing ExifTool in the C:\Program Files [(x86)]
folders runs into problems. Apparently the author didn't realize that
program data and user data should not be written to the installation
folder. Those folders are protected. Easiest solution is to install
ExifTool somewhere else. I create a C:\Programs folder for where to put
programs that expect to write data into their own install folders, like
my NNTP client (40tude Dialog) that I use here.

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> In message <1d9pjcybx4qh2$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Sat, 13 Apr 2024
> 22:34:15, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
>>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if exiftool (with it without its GUI) is the right tool for
>>> _video file_ metadata.
>>
>>I lists MP4, AVI, DIVX, FLV, MKV, MOV, QT, VOB, WEBM as supported, and
>>those are video formats.
>
> Thanks. I've now installed ExifToolGUI, and it certainly looks like the
> Swiss Army Knife for _looking at_ metadata.
>
> • I'd like to add it as an "open with" option to my right-click menu,
> but I guess I can look up how to do that.
>
> • It seems excellent for _looking at_ metadata; I can't see how to
> _edit_ it yet. (Maybe the GUI doesn't offer that option. Which might
> also explain not seeing the copyright field when I looked at some mp4
> files, since I don't think I have any with anything in that field [I
> certainly haven't been able to add to it in VLC, though it _shows_ the
> empty field]; I think it only shows fields with something in them.)
>
> [I just tried looking with it at an MP3 file where I knew the copyright
> field _does_ have something in it, and it does indeed show that content;
> however, I don't know if the field of that name is in the same "place"
> in both MP3 and MP4 files.]

https://exiftool.org/#writing

https://exiftool.org/gui/
"it allows to edit almost any metadata tag"

It says it can write. No idea how to use the GUI, but there are others
for ExifTool.

In message <15l3r7praslsg.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Sun, 14 Apr 2024 04:38:39,
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[]
>> Thanks. I've now installed ExifToolGUI, and it certainly looks like the
>> Swiss Army Knife for _looking at_ metadata.
[]
>> • It seems excellent for _looking at_ metadata; I can't see how to
>> _edit_ it yet. (Maybe the GUI doesn't offer that option. Which might
[]
>I have read that installing ExifTool in the C:\Program Files [(x86)]
>folders runs into problems. Apparently the author didn't realize that
>program data and user data should not be written to the installation
>folder. Those folders are protected. Easiest solution is to install

There is actually advice not to put it there, but that would only affect
say its own configuration file (it uses a .ini [hooray!] not the silly
registry); can't see it affecting whether you can change the files whose
metadata you're looking at (which in my case are on D: anyway).
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I have never liked children, even when I was one.
- Miriam Margolyes (RT 2014/11/1-7)

In message <cow930djd8si.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Sun, 14 Apr 2024 04:40:46,
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[]
>> Thanks. I've now installed ExifToolGUI, and it certainly looks like the
[]
>https://exiftool.org/#writing

Yes, the basic exiftool definitely can
>
>https://exiftool.org/gui/
>"it allows to edit almost any metadata tag"

I looked at that page, and found that text - but that's actually talking
about why he thinks the basic exiftool is excellent. But he does say
about two paragraphs down that the GUI also can edit, as well as just
look at, "the most common" (or similar words) metatags. I just haven't
worked out how to actually do so yet.
>
>It says it can write. No idea how to use the GUI, but there are others
>for ExifTool.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I have never liked children, even when I was one.
- Miriam Margolyes (RT 2014/11/1-7)

On 14/04/2024 09:58, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <1d9pjcybx4qh2$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Sat, 13 Apr 2024
> 22:34:15, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
>> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if exiftool (with it without its GUI) is the right tool for
>>> _video file_ metadata.
>>
>> I lists MP4, AVI, DIVX, FLV, MKV, MOV, QT, VOB, WEBM as supported, and
>> those are video formats.
>
> Thanks. I've now installed ExifToolGUI, and it certainly looks like the
> Swiss Army Knife for _looking at_ metadata.
>
> • I'd like to add it as an "open with" option to my right-click menu,
> but I guess I can look up how to do that.
>
> • It seems excellent for _looking at_ metadata; I can't see how to
> _edit_ it yet. (Maybe the GUI doesn't offer that option. Which might
> also explain not seeing the copyright field when I looked at some mp4
> files, since I don't think I have any with anything in that field [I
> certainly haven't been able to add to it in VLC, though it _shows_ the
> empty field]; I think it only shows fields with something in them.)
>
> [I just tried looking with it at an MP3 file where I knew the copyright
> field _does_ have something in it, and it does indeed show that content;
> however, I don't know if the field of that name is in the same "place"
> in both MP3 and MP4 files.]

This thread has touched upon a number of areas of interest to me ...

Firstly, as far as editing metadata goes ...

I agree that it makes sense to include it in the file as far as
possible. I accomplish this by using both metadata and meaningful
naming standards for the principal fields. As a naming standard is
easier to maintain, I try very hard to keep names consistent with it, in
the hope that when I find time I can use an automated tool to copy
metadata from the name into the metadata.

For photographs, as already suggested above, I've used ExifTool.

For music - Flac, MP3, etc - I've found MP3Tag pretty good but it
doesn't recognise mp4, or even just m4a:

https://www.mp3tag.de/en/

For more modern stuff I tend to use AtomicParsley, which I first
encountered as part of GetIPlayer to tag BBC iPlayer downloads.
However, it's a command line utility, and so not particularly easy to
use, but, despite that, I've used it manually to standardise the tags in
those *.m4a & *.mp4 downloads I choose to keep, particularly I've
concentrated on the music ones.

Secondly, what you say elsewhere in the thread, about tagging
photographs and that you are a genealogist, is of particular interest to
me, as some may remember that I'm scanning my way through boxes of
family documents going back to the reign of Queen Anne before donating
them to one of the Scottish document archives. Surviving annotated
photographs are incredibly important in this respect, because they
enable one to work out who the folks in other unannotated pictures and
portraits are. Where possible, I try to put the names in the file names
of the scans in back-left to front-right (bl-fr) order, but sometimes
there are too many, and then I make an additional keyed copy of the
photo with an identical name but with ' (key)' or ' (public key)'
appended, as here of a wedding of a great aunt at Ringwood Hall,
Derbyshire in 1888 (as some grew up to be parents of people still alive
today, the children are only named in the private version of the key,
not in the public version):

https://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/John_Emily_Close_Wedding_(public_key).png

So far, I've not tried to use tags to embed that sort of information,
but you've put me in mind of what seems a good idea, for which, thanks.
I may well try to do something like that.

[Aside pursuant to a recent thread in another ng, uk.tech.digital-tv I
think it was: note the number of Adelaides and Adas in the photo, three
(actually four, it was also the third name of a fourth person as well)
covering just two generations, whereas previously it was unknown in the
family. Where did this name spring from so suddenly? Search for
'Princess Adelaide' for an explanation of the name's sudden popularity
in the UK!]

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 4/14/2024 5:38 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <1d9pjcybx4qh2$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Sat, 13 Apr 2024
>> 22:34:15, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
>>> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't know if exiftool (with it without its GUI) is the right tool for
>>>> _video file_ metadata.
>>>
>>> I lists MP4, AVI, DIVX, FLV, MKV, MOV, QT, VOB, WEBM as supported, and
>>> those are video formats.
>>
>> Thanks. I've now installed ExifToolGUI, and it certainly looks like the
>> Swiss Army Knife for _looking at_ metadata.
>>
>> • I'd like to add it as an "open with" option to my right-click menu,
>> but I guess I can look up how to do that.
>>
>> • It seems excellent for _looking at_ metadata; I can't see how to
>> _edit_ it yet. (Maybe the GUI doesn't offer that option. Which might
>> also explain not seeing the copyright field when I looked at some mp4
>> files, since I don't think I have any with anything in that field [I
>> certainly haven't been able to add to it in VLC, though it _shows_ the
>> empty field]; I think it only shows fields with something in them.)
>>
>> [I just tried looking with it at an MP3 file where I knew the copyright
>> field _does_ have something in it, and it does indeed show that content;
>> however, I don't know if the field of that name is in the same "place"
>> in both MP3 and MP4 files.]
>
> I have read that installing ExifTool in the C:\Program Files [(x86)]
> folders runs into problems. Apparently the author didn't realize that
> program data and user data should not be written to the installation
> folder. Those folders are protected. Easiest solution is to install
> ExifTool somewhere else. I create a C:\Programs folder for where to put
> programs that expect to write data into their own install folders, like
> my NNTP client (40tude Dialog) that I use here.
>

Windows has a bypass for that. There is a compatibility feature
which makes it look to legacy programs, like they are writing
to Program Files, when in fact the OS redirects to somewhere else
(like maybe AppData or ProgramFiles or the like).

Paul

In message <uvghlc$3kjl1$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:19:54,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
[]
>This thread has touched upon a number of areas of interest to me ...
>
>Firstly, as far as editing metadata goes ...
>
>I agree that it makes sense to include it in the file as far as
>possible. I accomplish this by using both metadata and meaningful
>naming standards for the principal fields. As a naming standard is

(I assume you mean naming _of the file_.)

>easier to maintain, I try very hard to keep names consistent with it,
>in the hope that when I find time I can use an automated tool to copy
>metadata from the name into the metadata.
>
>For photographs, as already suggested above, I've used ExifTool.
>
>For music - Flac, MP3, etc - I've found MP3Tag pretty good but it
>doesn't recognise mp4, or even just m4a:

Notwithstanding that I've not yet figured out how to _write_, as opposed
to just view, tags with ExifToolGUI, I prefer to edit tags with the tool
I'm using to view/play the file; it's easier that way as I am likely to
have it open anyway to do so. So that's IrfanView for images, WinAmp for
sounds, and VLC for videos. OK, VLC can't change _some_ of the fields,
but they're not ones I am bothered about - it can (usually) change
title, artist, album, date, and comment.
>
>https://www.mp3tag.de/en/
>
>For more modern stuff I tend to use AtomicParsley, which I first
>encountered as part of GetIPlayer to tag BBC iPlayer downloads.

I never really got on with GetIPlayer; I did get it working at one
point, but found it rather complex and fragile (you had to keep up with
it). For BBC, I just use yt-dlp, and fill in the tags afterwards (in VLC
or WinAmp).
[]
>Secondly, what you say elsewhere in the thread, about tagging
>photographs and that you are a genealogist, is of particular interest
>to me, as some may remember that I'm scanning my way through boxes of
>family documents going back to the reign of Queen Anne before donating
>them to one of the Scottish document archives. Surviving annotated

Yes, IIRR you had documents on sheets of vellum somewhat bigger than the
average flatbed scanner.

>photographs are incredibly important in this respect, because they
>enable one to work out who the folks in other unannotated pictures and

(Yes: if any _non_ genealogists are still reading this: _annotate your
photographs_!!! Your descendants will thank you. Ideally put them in
albums [alba? {strictly albis!}] with writing next to them, but if
that's too much like hard work, write on the back [ideally _not_ with
ballpoint unless you don't press and not with anything that might soak
through like some felt pens]. With date, place, and names of those shown
- and not just "grandma" or "aunt Elsie", either.)

>portraits are. Where possible, I try to put the names in the file
>names of the scans in back-left to front-right (bl-fr) order, but
>sometimes there are too many, and then I make an additional keyed copy
>of the photo with an identical name but with ' (key)' or ' (public
>key)' appended, as here of a wedding of a great aunt at Ringwood Hall,
>Derbyshire in 1888 (as some grew up to be parents of people still alive
>today, the children are only named in the private version of the key,
>not in the public version):

I put such information in the comment field in the .jpg file. I _tend_
to name the file by the BK (Brother's Keeper - the genealogy software I
use) number of the people in the picture, but usually only one or two of
them - I think maximum I've used is four. The file is "linked" in BK to
as many people as I like (and I can do a search in BK for picture file
names, to remind me who _is_ linked to it).
[]
I do have the odd picture - mainly wedding ones - where I have two
versions, one with text in the actual picture naming the people, but
those are ones a relative has so annotated, I haven't done it (though
could easily enough in IrfanView [or probably almost any image
software]).

>So far, I've not tried to use tags to embed that sort of information,
>but you've put me in mind of what seems a good idea, for which, thanks.
>I may well try to do something like that.

About the only tag I ever use for .jpg files is the Comment field. BK
has its own notes field for where I link an image to a person, but I
tend not to use that, putting the comments in the picture itself - that
way I don't have to duplicate the notes (and remember to do so). I
_very_ occasionally use the BK image notes field where I have a note
that's specific to that person's connection to the picture - such as
"he's at top left" or "in the flat cap", but even that I don't usually
do, as it's usually included in the image comment.

(I wonder if we - or anyone else reading, for that matter - are related?
I'm mostly Norfolk, Northumberland, and the Midlands. [Relatively
closely related I mean; of course we're all related if we go back far
enough, though the mathematics involved are a source of endless
argument.])
>
>[Aside pursuant to a recent thread in another ng, uk.tech.digital-tv I
>think it was: note the number of Adelaides and Adas in the photo, three
>(actually four, it was also the third name of a fourth person as well)
>covering just two generations, whereas previously it was unknown in the
>family. Where did this name spring from so suddenly? Search for
>'Princess Adelaide' for an explanation of the name's sudden popularity
>in the UK!]
>
Nothing really unusual in my tree, name-wise - certain forenames are
common, but I think they are just regional (Isabels in Northumberland
for example). My favourite is the Savage-Slaughter marriage!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The bottleneck is always at the top of the bottle. - Attributed to Peter
Drucker (re management), by @Eric_Partaker 2023-7-14