<rant mode engaged>

Is there anything more annoying in video games? You find that nifty
piece of loot after an epic battle, go over to pick it up, and can't
because your inventory is full. Then you have to struggle to either
re-arrange your current gear, Tetris-like, for it to fit, or decide
what vital equipment to sacrifice in order to claim your newest
treasure.

I get the /ideas/ behind inventory limits. It adds realism to the
game. It's a bit of extra resource management. It encourages more
experimentation with existing gear and discourages hoarding. Limitless
inventories almost always make a game less challenging. But I don't
care. They're fucking annoying and I've never found the one game
'better' than another because the former had limited inventory space
and the latter didn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.

It's why I had more fun with Titans Quest than Diablo; the former let
me have more loot. It's why I still regard Ultima 5 as one of the
greatest CRPGs (although I always wondered how my party of five
managed to carry 99 of every item; was a troop of mules shadowing them
into the dungeons?). It's why - if it's an option - I'll happily cheat
or mod a game to remove (or at least reduce) inventory limits (Skyrim
would be far less fun if I couldn't vacuum up every item in the
dungeon). If I just killed a 10,000 hit-point dragon, I'll be damned
if some /developer/ is going to prevent me from claiming every bit of
treasure.

So while I get some people might like the things, I'm not one of 'em.
I'd be happier if I never played another game that featured that
concept ever again.

</rant>

>Then you have to struggle to either
>re-arrange your current gear, Tetris-like, for it to fit,

This was such an integral, almost iconic, feature of Resident Evil games
I can't imagine it disappearing from them, but in other games I find it
forces me to try the different weapons provided, or other games will
eventually include a breakdown or sell feature as an upgrade. Dark Souls
games use a variation on the inventory with limited 'equip' slots but
infinite inventory.

rms

On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 22:19:11 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>
><rant mode engaged>
>
>Is there anything more annoying in video games?

No, there isn't. Not if loot focused RPGs are a genre you like and
prefer.

I hate playing Tetris with my inventory. I always look for mods that
add more inventory. I did it in Diablo 2. I did it in Torchlight 1 and
2. I did it in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. I purchased more inventory
space in City of Heroes and in Lord of the Rings Online.

I've heard all the excuses. I don't care about realism. I don't care
if it discourages hoarding. I don't care if it encourages thinking
about your loot more. I do not fucking care. I have been managing my
inventory my entire gaming life and I am sick of it.

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 4:08:57 AM UTC-7, Mike S. wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 22:19:11 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
> <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><rant mode engaged>
> >
> >Is there anything more annoying in video games?
> No, there isn't. Not if loot focused RPGs are a genre you like and
> prefer.
>
> I hate playing Tetris with my inventory. I always look for mods that
> add more inventory. I did it in Diablo 2. I did it in Torchlight 1 and
> 2. I did it in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. I purchased more inventory
> space in City of Heroes and in Lord of the Rings Online.
>
> I've heard all the excuses. I don't care about realism. I don't care
> if it discourages hoarding. I don't care if it encourages thinking
> about your loot more. I do not fucking care. I have been managing my
> inventory my entire gaming life and I am sick of it.

Thirded. Inventory mods were a must in any Bethesda game to me.

The only game I can think of where I thought it was good was
Dungeon Robber, as the goal is to get out of the dungeon with as
much sellable treasure as possible, and the more you take with
you the less you can carry, but there's even a way around that if
you can get/take a henchman as any safe spot you can just send
them on a quick trip to sell stuff. Plus there's no limit I found of
any type of item, got a bludgeon you can carry hundreds around.

I feel much the same way about crafting in general, it's adds
annoying collections and inventory management. I don't want
to go around picking flowers, I want to kill stuff. I found it
particularly annoying in City of Heroes when they added it, even
the slot upgrade stuff never felt right to me.

- Justisaur

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 07:08:54 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 22:19:11 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>><rant mode engaged>
>>Is there anything more annoying in video games?

>I've heard all the excuses. I don't care about realism. I don't care
>if it discourages hoarding. I don't care if it encourages thinking
>about your loot more. I do not fucking care. I have been managing my
>inventory my entire gaming life and I am sick of it.

(I think I struck a nerve ;-)

Preach on, Brother* MikeS! Hallelujah! Let the words flow from your
lips to the ears of the unbelievers! ;-)

One of the worst parts of inventory management is how they inevitably
become tedious busy-work that keeps you from enjoying the rest of the
game. Nothing kills a game's pacing like having to spend five or ten
minutes rearranging your gear between fights just so you can make room
for that +5 armor you want but can't actually use until you level up.

And it is not as if the inventory game ever gets more involved or
challenging as the game progresses; it's always the same boring chore
from start of the game to end. Sure, you sometimes get a few more
blocks in your inventory block (or 50 units more carry weight), but
that only delays how long between inventory shuffles, not how the
shuffle itself plays out.

(I can think of only one exception to the above and - perhaps
unsurprisingly - it was the brainchild of Hideo Kojima. In "Death
Stranding", manipulating what and how much you can carry is an
essential part of the game, and as you gain new equipment and gain a
better understanding of the balance mechanics, you can carry unwieldy
amounts of gear. I don't actually think this makes the game any more
fun, but at least it's a change from the 'three more squares in
inventory block' that's become the default for too many games).

That publishers actually sell increased inventory space is telling;
"We know this part of the game isn't fun," they're saying. "Give us
more money and we'll let you bypass it."

==========================
* Or Sister, because who am I to say? We here at the Church of Hating
Video Game Inventory Systems accept any and all regardless of color,
creed or gender, and expend our spite only on pointless video-game
inventories! Love thy neighbor, hate the inventory block ;-)

On 26/09/2022 03:19, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> <rant mode engaged>
>
> Is there anything more annoying in video games? You find that nifty
> piece of loot after an epic battle, go over to pick it up, and can't
> because your inventory is full. Then you have to struggle to either
> re-arrange your current gear, Tetris-like, for it to fit, or decide
> what vital equipment to sacrifice in order to claim your newest
> treasure.
>
> I get the /ideas/ behind inventory limits. It adds realism to the
> game. It's a bit of extra resource management. It encourages more
> experimentation with existing gear and discourages hoarding. Limitless
> inventories almost always make a game less challenging. But I don't
> care. They're fucking annoying and I've never found the one game
> 'better' than another because the former had limited inventory space
> and the latter didn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.
>
> It's why I had more fun with Titans Quest than Diablo; the former let
> me have more loot. It's why I still regard Ultima 5 as one of the
> greatest CRPGs (although I always wondered how my party of five
> managed to carry 99 of every item; was a troop of mules shadowing them
> into the dungeons?). It's why - if it's an option - I'll happily cheat
> or mod a game to remove (or at least reduce) inventory limits (Skyrim
> would be far less fun if I couldn't vacuum up every item in the
> dungeon). If I just killed a 10,000 hit-point dragon, I'll be damned
> if some /developer/ is going to prevent me from claiming every bit of
> treasure.
>
> So while I get some people might like the things, I'm not one of 'em.
> I'd be happier if I never played another game that featured that
> concept ever again.
>

Not exactly my favourite part of a game and my real problem in the
context of CRPG's is you just get too much moot that has the sole
purpose of being things you can sell. I really don't want to have to
worry about picking up the armour and weapons from a group of kobolds.
Just give me the money instead. Even with games based around loot I find
it can be a bit overwhelming seeing what you've got and what's worth
using and what should just be sold. Torchlight II had the interesting
idea of you had a companion that you could just load up with stuff and
tell it to go away and sell it.

Something that I think is a real positive in TT Call of Cthulhu is it
pretty much got rid of both inventory management and even money. So yes
if you go and investigate a house in the dark it's assumed you will have
a torch with you.

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:54:02 AM UTC-7, JAB wrote:
> On 26/09/2022 03:19, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> >
> > <rant mode engaged>
> >
> > Is there anything more annoying in video games? You find that nifty
> > piece of loot after an epic battle, go over to pick it up, and can't
> > because your inventory is full. Then you have to struggle to either
> > re-arrange your current gear, Tetris-like, for it to fit, or decide
> > what vital equipment to sacrifice in order to claim your newest
> > treasure.
> >
> > I get the /ideas/ behind inventory limits. It adds realism to the
> > game. It's a bit of extra resource management. It encourages more
> > experimentation with existing gear and discourages hoarding. Limitless
> > inventories almost always make a game less challenging. But I don't
> > care. They're fucking annoying and I've never found the one game
> > 'better' than another because the former had limited inventory space
> > and the latter didn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.
> >
> > It's why I had more fun with Titans Quest than Diablo; the former let
> > me have more loot. It's why I still regard Ultima 5 as one of the
> > greatest CRPGs (although I always wondered how my party of five
> > managed to carry 99 of every item; was a troop of mules shadowing them
> > into the dungeons?). It's why - if it's an option - I'll happily cheat
> > or mod a game to remove (or at least reduce) inventory limits (Skyrim
> > would be far less fun if I couldn't vacuum up every item in the
> > dungeon). If I just killed a 10,000 hit-point dragon, I'll be damned
> > if some /developer/ is going to prevent me from claiming every bit of
> > treasure.
> >
> > So while I get some people might like the things, I'm not one of 'em.
> > I'd be happier if I never played another game that featured that
> > concept ever again.
> >
> Not exactly my favourite part of a game and my real problem in the
> context of CRPG's is you just get too much moot that has the sole
> purpose of being things you can sell. I really don't want to have to
> worry about picking up the armour and weapons from a group of kobolds.
> Just give me the money instead. Even with games based around loot I find
> it can be a bit overwhelming seeing what you've got and what's worth
> using and what should just be sold. Torchlight II had the interesting
> idea of you had a companion that you could just load up with stuff and
> tell it to go away and sell it.
>
> Something that I think is a real positive in TT Call of Cthulhu is it
> pretty much got rid of both inventory management and even money. So yes
> if you go and investigate a house in the dark it's assumed you will have
> a torch with you.

Even in TT D&D encumbrance is often hand-waved, and mostly done
so in the latest edition by default.

- Justisaur.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 10:54:00 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>Not exactly my favourite part of a game and my real problem in the
>context of CRPG's is you just get too much moot that has the sole
>purpose of being things you can sell. I really don't want to have to
>worry about picking up the armour and weapons from a group of kobolds.
>Just give me the money instead.

"The Bards Tale" (the 'snarky' 2004 reboot) did just that. Monsters
would drop all the usual loot - weapons, ropes, gems, whatever - but
as soon as you picked it up, it transformed magically into the cash
equivalent. It did this very tongue-in-cheek, since it's self-aware
protagonist knew the only purpose of those items was to fund the
purchase of more powerful weapons/spells/skills, so why not just skip
the middlemen?

But - while I'm not saying lugging around 10000 items to a merchant to
manually sell would have made the game more fun - it did make an
already shallow game feel even more shallow. Because 99% of the loot
was automatically-transformed-to-money vendor-trash, it greatly
limited the variety of weapons and items that could be used to a mere
handful, and cut out a lot of interactions with NPCs.

Of course, the biggest problem in these games is that so many of these
items are useless except as resellables. I mean, why /can't/ I use
that rope ladder I found in-game for anything but trading it away for
2 gold pieces (and why the hell is a rope ladder worth that much gold
anyway? ;-). It's why I love tabletop games so much; even the humble
metal spoon can be a useful tool in the hands of a skilled adventurer,
but in a video game it's just a useless sprite.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 07:38:59 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:54:02 AM UTC-7, JAB wrote:

>> Something that I think is a real positive in TT Call of Cthulhu is it
>> pretty much got rid of both inventory management and even money. So yes
>> if you go and investigate a house in the dark it's assumed you will have
>> a torch with you.

>Even in TT D&D encumbrance is often hand-waved, and mostly done
>so in the latest edition by default.

Yeah, I've never been a stickler for encumbrance rules, so long as the
players don't go too overboard with it (plus, mules are a thing in my
campaigns ;-). And even from the start, D&D had it's own 'anti-grind'
features to alleviate encumbrance limitations in the form of bags of
holding.

In some respects, encumbrance limitations were an attempt to control
how fast PCs levelled up, since most XP in early versions of the game
was gained based on how much cash you accumulated (generally with 1 gp
rescued from the dungeon becoming 1 XP earned at the end of the
adventure). So if players could vacuum up all the loot in a dungeon
without limitation, they could jump multiple levels on a single
expedition. Encumbrance kept this from happening.

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 12:01:29 PM UTC-4, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 07:38:59 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
> <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:54:02 AM UTC-7, JAB wrote:
>
> >> Something that I think is a real positive in TT Call of Cthulhu is it
> >> pretty much got rid of both inventory management and even money. So yes
> >> if you go and investigate a house in the dark it's assumed you will have
> >> a torch with you.
>
> >Even in TT D&D encumbrance is often hand-waved, and mostly done
> >so in the latest edition by default.
> Yeah, I've never been a stickler for encumbrance rules, so long as the
> players don't go too overboard with it (plus, mules are a thing in my
> campaigns ;-). And even from the start, D&D had it's own 'anti-grind'
> features to alleviate encumbrance limitations in the form of bags of
> holding.
>
> In some respects, encumbrance limitations were an attempt to control
> how fast PCs levelled up, since most XP in early versions of the game
> was gained based on how much cash you accumulated (generally with 1 gp
> rescued from the dungeon becoming 1 XP earned at the end of the
> adventure). So if players could vacuum up all the loot in a dungeon
> without limitation, they could jump multiple levels on a single
> expedition. Encumbrance kept this from happening.
Test

On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 22:19:11 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>
><rant mode engaged>
>
>Is there anything more annoying in video games? You find that nifty
>piece of loot after an epic battle, go over to pick it up, and can't
>because your inventory is full. Then you have to struggle to either
>re-arrange your current gear, Tetris-like, for it to fit, or decide
>what vital equipment to sacrifice in order to claim your newest
>treasure.
>
>I get the /ideas/ behind inventory limits. It adds realism to the
>game. It's a bit of extra resource management. It encourages more
>experimentation with existing gear and discourages hoarding. Limitless
>inventories almost always make a game less challenging. But I don't
>care. They're fucking annoying and I've never found the one game
>'better' than another because the former had limited inventory space
>and the latter didn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.
>
>It's why I had more fun with Titans Quest than Diablo; the former let
>me have more loot. It's why I still regard Ultima 5 as one of the
>greatest CRPGs (although I always wondered how my party of five
>managed to carry 99 of every item; was a troop of mules shadowing them
>into the dungeons?). It's why - if it's an option - I'll happily cheat
>or mod a game to remove (or at least reduce) inventory limits (Skyrim
>would be far less fun if I couldn't vacuum up every item in the
>dungeon). If I just killed a 10,000 hit-point dragon, I'll be damned
>if some /developer/ is going to prevent me from claiming every bit of
>treasure.
>
>So while I get some people might like the things, I'm not one of 'em.
>I'd be happier if I never played another game that featured that
>concept ever again.
>
>
></rant>
>
Grrr. Paying valuable cyber modules for "Pack-rat" in System Shock 2.
Grrr.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 12:07:37 -0700 (PDT), Ryan <jrthomf@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Test

Well, if you insist:

1. Which of the following creates a flapping sound near the front
of the engine?
a. Timing belt tension too tight
b. Drive belt too tight
c. Drive belt too loose
d. Timing belt tension too loose
2. An engine noise sounds like a knock at the side of the engine
that is louder when the engine is cold and goes away or is reduced
when the engine reaches operating temperature. Which of the following
is the MOST likely cause?
a. Cam bearing
b. Main bearing
c. Piston slap
d. Wrist pin
3. This question is not like the others. It has the word EXCEPT.
For this question, look for the choice that could NOT cause the
described situation. Read the entire question carefully before
choosing your answer.
All of the following are reasons why you must disable the fuel
injection system and ignition system when conducting an engine
compression test, EXCEPT:
a. Prevents damage to the ignition system during the test
b. Prevents fuel injection into the cylinders
c. Prevents a shop engine fire
d. Prevents inaccurate readings
4. A power balance test is being performed on an engine.
Technician A says to note the engine RPM before and during the test
for each cylinder. Technician B says to record the RPM drop for each
cylinder. Who is right? a. A only
b. B only
c. Both A and B
d. Neither A not B
5. Technician A says the closed coil end of a valve spring should
go against the cylinder head. Technician B says all valve springs use
shims to control free spring height. Who is right?
a. A only
b. B only
c. Both A and B
d. Neither A nor B

6. This question is not like the others. It has the word EXCEPT.
For this question, look for the choice that could NOT fit the
described situation. Read the entire question carefully before
choosing your answer.
All of the following statements are correct when adjusting valve lash
on engines with overhead camshaft cylinder heads, EXCEPT:
a. Shims may be used to make adjustments.
b. Clearance is measured between the camshaft and follower or rocker
on most engines.
c. The follower or rocker must be on the base circle of the camshaft
when measuring.
d. The engine must be cold for all engine manufacturers

7. The surface of the cylinder head has just been machined. What
will have to be done to the valve train?
a. Lengthening the push rods
b. Increasing valve spring tension
c. Grinding the valve stems
d. Shim the head
8. A technician hears a knock or thumping at the side of the
engine block that is louder when the engine is hot and goes away when
the affected cylinder is shorted out. Which of the following could be
the cause?
a. Main bearing
b. Wrist pin
c. Rod bearing
d. Piston slap

9. An engine is making a knocking sound that changes with RPM,
and the noise disappears while a cylinder is being tested during the
cylinder balance test. Which of the following could be the cause?
a. Rod bearing
b. Main bearing
c. Piston Slap
d. Burnt valve

10. Technician A says old antifreeze may cause corrosion build-up
in the cooling system. Technician B says some original equipment
manufacturers (OEM) recommend that the coolant be changed at specified
intervals. Who is right?
a. A only
b. B only
c. Both A and B
d. Neither A nor B

11. This question has the word LEAST. For this question, look for
the choice that would LEAST likely fit the described situation. Read
the entire question carefully before choosing your answer.
Which of the following steps is LEAST likely to be necessary when
refilling a cooling system?
a. Bleeding the air out of the system
b. Mixing tap water and distilled water
c. Mixing the proper ratio of water to coolant
d. Check the radiator cap for proper fit

12. A technician is using a laptop computer and manufacturer
software to test the ECT (Electronic Controlled Throttle) circuit that
has a stored DTC P1121 (Electric Throttle Control Actuator). Which of
the following customer concerns could be caused by a defective ECT
return spring malfunction?
a. Rough idle
b. Low power
c. High idle
d. Detonation

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> writes:

> Grrr. Paying valuable cyber modules for "Pack-rat" in System Shock 2.
> Grrr.

And didn't it have a shape thing too on top of the limited space? Oh,
this dingbat needs an 1x3 space in your inventory, it definitely can't
fit in a 3x1 space...

Deus Ex was much the same but I guess it was effectively done so that
you couldn't really fit all weapons in your inventory. Want to have a
rocket launcher? Well it won't fit if you have the assault rifle and
shotgun and sniper in there too. I remember my "pistolero" playthrough
was fun since I actually did have the space to lug the launcher around
since for weapons I only had a pistol and mini-crossbow for silent
weapon.

I think the most annoying inventory experience was having large but
limited inventory where you'd get an inventory full message something
like 2/3 through the game. And then realizing you're lugging around
hundreds of near-identical rifles. Thinking of the original Mass Effect
here.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 18:07:56 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Grrr. Paying valuable cyber modules for "Pack-rat" in System Shock 2.
>Grrr.

You mean O/S upgrade, of which there are only four throughout the
entire game.

Pack Rat might be useful at the harder difficulties where character
skill upgrades are expensive AND you do not care about melee damage.
Otherwise, upgrading Strength is a better way to increase inventory
space.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 07:07:40 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 18:07:56 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:

>>Grrr. Paying valuable cyber modules for "Pack-rat" in System Shock 2.
>>Grrr.

>Pack Rat might be useful at the harder difficulties where character
>skill upgrades are expensive AND you do not care about melee damage.
>Otherwise, upgrading Strength is a better way to increase inventory
>space.

Or use one of those Strength augmentation devices (I forget what
they're called in game; I really should play "System Shock 2" again).
It's easy to get your hands on one and has the adds bonus damage to
melee attacks too.

Of course, you do need to keep the thing charged up, or you'll start
leaking items like a loot piñata. But they drain relatively slowly.

I didn't have an excessive problem with inventory in SS2, partly
because the game tends to drain resources fairly quickly, and partly
because - since items didn't disappear from the game-world, and the
maps were small enough - you could make easily-accessible caches if
needed.

But I tended to use psi-ops build, which meant I wasn't as reliant on
bulky weapons and huge piles of ammunition. But honestly, I can't
imagine finishing the game without significant psionic power; doing
that final slog through the Body Of The Many without invisibility is
painful, but with that power it's a cakewalk ;-)

I really should play System Shock 2 again. I said that already, didn't
I?

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 12:34:23 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>I didn't have an excessive problem with inventory in SS2, partly
>because the game tends to drain resources fairly quickly, and partly
>because - since items didn't disappear from the game-world, and the
>maps were small enough - you could make easily-accessible caches if
>needed.

As a cache, I used the area at the beginning of the game that has the
closet you can open with the passcode of all zeroes. You can throw
stuff onto the shelves in that closet to organize your crap. :) That
area also has upgrade stations for all of your skills which is nice.
Finally, it is easily accessible from the elevator once you get it
back online.

>But I tended to use psi-ops build, which meant I wasn't as reliant on
>bulky weapons and huge piles of ammunition. But honestly, I can't
>imagine finishing the game without significant psionic power; doing
>that final slog through the Body Of The Many without invisibility is
>painful, but with that power it's a cakewalk ;-)

I found psi-ops to be the most difficult build to get through the game
with, but I agree, by the end, a psi character has it easy.

>I really should play System Shock 2 again. I said that already, didn't
>I?

I always have System Shock 2 installed but I honestly think I am
going to play the first one again soon. I don't think System Shock 1
is as good as 2 but I have played the second game to death already.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

> Or use one of those Strength augmentation devices (I forget what
> they're called in game; I really should play "System Shock 2" again).
> It's easy to get your hands on one and has the adds bonus damage to
> melee attacks too.
>
> Of course, you do need to keep the thing charged up, or you'll start
> leaking items like a loot piñata. But they drain relatively slowly.

Strength implant? Or I guess it's the powered armor actually.

> I really should play System Shock 2 again. I said that already, didn't
> I?

I feel the same way. I've kinda been hoping the EE version would come
out but since the original's remake is dragging on, not holding my
breath. So I suppose both the GoG and Steam versions of SS2 are playable
today on modern systems? Looks like I own the GoG version, I think it
has been given away a few times.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 12:14:37 +0300, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

>I feel the same way. I've kinda been hoping the EE version would come
>out but since the original's remake is dragging on, not holding my
>breath. So I suppose both the GoG and Steam versions of SS2 are playable
>today on modern systems? Looks like I own the GoG version, I think it
>has been given away a few times.

Steam version of SS2 runs fine for me. You may want to mod it though.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:04:05 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 12:34:23 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I didn't have an excessive problem with inventory in SS2, partly
>>because the game tends to drain resources fairly quickly, and partly
>>because - since items didn't disappear from the game-world, and the
>>maps were small enough - you could make easily-accessible caches if
>>needed.
>
>As a cache, I used the area at the beginning of the game that has the
>closet you can open with the passcode of all zeroes. You can throw
>stuff onto the shelves in that closet to organize your crap. :) That
>area also has upgrade stations for all of your skills which is nice.
>Finally, it is easily accessible from the elevator once you get it
>back online.

Yeah, I just tend to dump everything outside the elevators. Usually
the first cache is on level 1, and later in the game I move it to
level... 5? (the one with the shopping mall... which is apparently a
necessity for interstellar travel? :)

>>But I tended to use psi-ops build, which meant I wasn't as reliant on
>>bulky weapons and huge piles of ammunition. But honestly, I can't
>>imagine finishing the game without significant psionic power; doing
>>that final slog through the Body Of The Many without invisibility is
>>painful, but with that power it's a cakewalk ;-)

>I found psi-ops to be the most difficult build to get through the game
>with, but I agree, by the end, a psi character has it easy.

Level 2 - the cargo bays - is probably the hardest part for psiops
because the respawn rate is so high and cryoblasts so ineffective
against all those god-damn protocol droids. Melee isn't an option
either, since they explode on death, so you gotta waste some
skillpoints in guns.

But after that arduous level, the difficulty curve eases and things
become less painful.

>I always have System Shock 2 installed but I honestly think I am
>going to play the first one again soon. I don't think System Shock 1
>is as good as 2 but I have played the second game to death already.

Yeah, that's a problem with both games; I have an overfamiliarity with
them and they lack the power to surprise. This is especially an issue
with SS2, which is much more an atmospheric horror game; knowing for
sure which halls are empty and which only /seem/ empty takes away a
lot of the terror, and thus a lot of the game's impact.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:45:41 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>Yeah, that's a problem with both games; I have an overfamiliarity with
>them and they lack the power to surprise. This is especially an issue
>with SS2, which is much more an atmospheric horror game; knowing for
>sure which halls are empty and which only /seem/ empty takes away a
>lot of the terror, and thus a lot of the game's impact.

Those biohazard spiders still scare the crap out of me though.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 12:13:49 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:45:41 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>>Yeah, that's a problem with both games; I have an overfamiliarity with
>>them and they lack the power to surprise. This is especially an issue
>>with SS2, which is much more an atmospheric horror game; knowing for
>>sure which halls are empty and which only /seem/ empty takes away a
>>lot of the terror, and thus a lot of the game's impact.

>Those biohazard spiders still scare the crap out of me though.

I never minded the spiders as much as others, since I don't have such
an instictual dread of archanids as some, and - anyway - the spiders
in the game usually gave away their presence with their recognizable
chittering long before you ever saw them. This meant I was usually
able to prepare myself for the conflict before I triggered their
attacks, which made the encounters much less terrifying.

The only exception was on the hydroponics section (I think?) where you
had to fight them in a low, enclosed section. IIRC, those bastards
/didn't/ betray their location with their customary warning noises,
and that was one of the rare instances the 8-legged freaks actually
made me jump when they first appeared.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 9:19:17 PM UTC-5, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> <rant mode engaged>
>
> Is there anything more annoying in video games? You find that nifty
> piece of loot after an epic battle, go over to pick it up, and can't
> because your inventory is full. Then you have to struggle to either
> re-arrange your current gear, Tetris-like, for it to fit, or decide
> what vital equipment to sacrifice in order to claim your newest
> treasure.
>
> I get the /ideas/ behind inventory limits. It adds realism to the
> game. It's a bit of extra resource management. It encourages more
> experimentation with existing gear and discourages hoarding. Limitless
> inventories almost always make a game less challenging. But I don't
> care. They're fucking annoying and I've never found the one game
> 'better' than another because the former had limited inventory space
> and the latter didn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.
>
> It's why I had more fun with Titans Quest than Diablo; the former let
> me have more loot. It's why I still regard Ultima 5 as one of the
> greatest CRPGs (although I always wondered how my party of five
> managed to carry 99 of every item; was a troop of mules shadowing them
> into the dungeons?).

I had a lot of fun with Ultima 4 and Ultima 5 too. That was back when
there was a lot of resistance to me playing games.

Mostly I don't notice
inventory limits. I've been trained to handle them by playing Nethack. It
seems like every twenty minutes I'm rearranging my stuff in that game. It
doesn't bother me in Diablo since the limits seem pretty lax there. Big
stash, and a large inventory, especially in Diablo III. But I agree with you,
in the game that set the limits, Nethack, I get tired of managing inventory
as much as I do. It's like serving two masters. I want most items in
my inventory if my hero cacks it because they are identified for you and
also gemstones contribute to score. So, I guess my suggestion is to
play a game where you really notice the limits and get good at handling
encumbrance and carry that experience with you to the games that
don't stress it as much.

I don't cheating my games. Every win is a ribbon and I want to have the
same challenges as every other player. Like, I remember that I cheated
in Zork: GI by taking a big secret from a walkthrough, and now I have to go
back and win it again. Other than that I have a clean record and I like it
that way. It's your preference though.

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:45:41 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

> >Yeah, that's a problem with both games; I have an overfamiliarity with
> >them and they lack the power to surprise. This is especially an issue
> >with SS2, which is much more an atmospheric horror game; knowing for
> >sure which halls are empty and which only /seem/ empty takes away a
> >lot of the terror, and thus a lot of the game's impact.

> Those biohazard spiders still scare the crap out of me though.

Monkeys, dang it!
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On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 14:56:45 -0700 (PDT), "Pr. Mandrake"
<jfwaldby@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mostly I don't notice
>inventory limits. I've been trained to handle them by playing Nethack. It
>seems like every twenty minutes I'm rearranging my stuff in that game. It
>doesn't bother me in Diablo since the limits seem pretty lax there. Big
>stash, and a large inventory, especially in Diablo III.

Diablo 3 is fine but Diablo 2 inventory and stash limits are awful.
Made even worse when they introduced charms into the game. Thank god
for plugy, a mod which gives you unlimited stash space. I also
installed another mod which doubles my inventory space.

Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> writes:

> Steam version of SS2 runs fine for me. You may want to mod it though.

Well, I did mod it quite a lot.

I followed the guide at
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=144318168 and the
game looks fine from what I've seen so far.

Downsides, the SS2Tool hung a couple of times but at least it's
smart enough to figure out what it needs to download so it doesn't start
from scratch every time.

So eventually SS2Tool got done, I installed the "Shock Community Patch"
and then I put in all the graphical, weapon model, enemy model and
musical mods from that guide.

I haven't gotten very far yet but at least the Pistol, Laser Pistol,
PsiAmp look pretty good. The environment textures don't look too bad
either. Not sure about the enemies, I've just seen a couple of pipe
hybrids. Typically for me I seem to suck with the melee so I'm not
getting as much use of the wrench as I'd like.