I installed Mageia 8 32-bit to test some software bugs.
It seems rather slow, like clicking on a menu, notice the lag before it
pops up.
I have a few old PCs for testing distros, they have Ivy Bridge 3400 MHz
CPU and WD black hard drives. Seems good enough for most distros to be
responsive.
Any reason 32-bit would be so shite? I know when running CPU in 32-bit
mode, you lose some registers, and the newer SSE4,AVX instructions.
If I do free -m
it says
used 630 free 1722 buff/cache 1602

On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:06:53 -0400, Mikey <prof@hoohaa.edu> wrote:

> I installed Mageia 8 32-bit to test some software bugs.
> It seems rather slow, like clicking on a menu, notice the lag before it
> pops up.
> I have a few old PCs for testing distros, they have Ivy Bridge 3400 MHz
> CPU and WD black hard drives. Seems good enough for most distros to be
> responsive.
> Any reason 32-bit would be so shite? I know when running CPU in 32-bit
> mode, you lose some registers, and the newer SSE4,AVX instructions.
> If I do free -m
> it says
> used 630 free 1722 buff/cache 1602

Due to the limited ram, try adding the following ...
$ cat /etc/sysctl.d/tales.conf
# Reduce applications being swapped
vm.swappiness=1
# Don't shrink the inode cache
vm.vfs_cache_pressure=50

Also in systemsettings5 disable all of the background services that you don't
need.

KDE Plasma is a pretty demanding desktop environment for an older system. You
would probably be better off using XFCE4, which is available as a live iso
for Mageia 8.

Just fyi, I'm the leader of the qa team for Mageia.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Am 22.10.2022 um 11:06:53 Uhr schrieb Mikey:

> I installed Mageia 8 32-bit to test some software bugs.
> It seems rather slow, like clicking on a menu, notice the lag before
> it pops up.
> I have a few old PCs for testing distros, they have Ivy Bridge 3400
> MHz CPU and WD black hard drives. Seems good enough for most distros
> to be responsive.
> Any reason 32-bit would be so shite?

It completely makes no sense to run 32 bit (i686) on a CPU that is
capable of amd64 (64 bit).

The i686 builds don't use SSE2/3 etc. to be compatible with old CPUs
like Pentium Pro (real Intel 686) and Pentium 2/3/4.

64 bit can use SSE2 because every 64 bit (amd64/Intel64) CPU supports
it.

Additionally, most distros discontinued i686 due to the small amount of
users that still need it.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2022 03:22:49 -0400, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> Am 22.10.2022 um 11:06:53 Uhr schrieb Mikey:
>> I installed Mageia 8 32-bit to test some software bugs.
>> It seems rather slow, like clicking on a menu, notice the lag before
>> it pops up.
>> I have a few old PCs for testing distros, they have Ivy Bridge 3400
>> MHz CPU and WD black hard drives. Seems good enough for most distros
>> to be responsive.
>> Any reason 32-bit would be so shite?
>
> It completely makes no sense to run 32 bit (i686) on a CPU that is
> capable of amd64 (64 bit).

It uses slightly less memory, which on a low ram system can make a difference.

> The i686 builds don't use SSE2/3 etc. to be compatible with old CPUs
> like Pentium Pro (real Intel 686) and Pentium 2/3/4.
>
> 64 bit can use SSE2 because every 64 bit (amd64/Intel64) CPU supports
> it.

There are limits on what software is provided or will work on old hardware
but if it meets your needs, why not?

> Additionally, most distros discontinued i686 due to the small amount of
> users that still need it.

Mageia will be keeping i586 support in addition to x86_64 and aarch64 as
long as we can.

I wouldn't recommend using a heavy desktop environment such as kde plasma or
gnome on old, low ram hardware. They work, but are very slow. Using one of the
lighter weight desktop environments such as xfce4, mate, cinnamon, etc. works
fine.

Many programs such as firefox and libreoffice do work on the i586 installs.
It's preferable to tweak various settings to improve performance, but they
work even without any tweaks.

There are use cases for old hardware that beat sending it to the landfill.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Am 22.10.2022 um 13:46:27 Uhr schrieb David W. Hodgins:

> There are use cases for old hardware that beat sending it to the
> landfill.

Full ack. I still use a Pentium 3 with Debian Sid as a server.
Pentium 4 in desktop and Pentium M in 2 laptops.

Although, i586 and i686 are becoming more and more abandoned.

On 10/22/22 12:05, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 22.10.2022 um 13:46:27 Uhr schrieb David W. Hodgins:
>
>> There are use cases for old hardware that beat sending it to the
>> landfill.
>
> Full ack. I still use a Pentium 3 with Debian Sid as a server.
> Pentium 4 in desktop and Pentium M in 2 laptops.
>
> Although, i586 and i686 are becoming more and more abandoned.
>

I ran KDE 3.x on an Inspiron 4000 Dell laptop with 384 NB of
memory, processor was a Coppermine at 700 MHz and I was running Mandriva
2009.1. It was usable enough then but I loaned it to a gardener who
had no idea how to take care of that old laptop. The original system
may have been before XP but the Video ram was 8 MB. I cut back on the
number of Virtual Desktops and the number of colors to get a somewhat
faster performance.

bliss - running PCLinuxOS Linux 6.0.5 and KDE 5.26.2 on
a Dell Latitude 7450, 2nd hand added 500 GB SSD and 16 GB ram.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On 2022-10-22 03:22, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 22.10.2022 um 11:06:53 Uhr schrieb Mikey:
>
>> I installed Mageia 8 32-bit to test some software bugs.
>> It seems rather slow, like clicking on a menu, notice the lag before
>> it pops up.
>> I have a few old PCs for testing distros, they have Ivy Bridge 3400
>> MHz CPU and WD black hard drives. Seems good enough for most distros
>> to be responsive.
>> Any reason 32-bit would be so shite?
>
> It completely makes no sense to run 32 bit (i686) on a CPU that is
> capable of amd64 (64 bit).
>
> The i686 builds don't use SSE2/3 etc. to be compatible with old CPUs
> like Pentium Pro (real Intel 686) and Pentium 2/3/4.
>
> 64 bit can use SSE2 because every 64 bit (amd64/Intel64) CPU supports
> it.
>
The P4 does support SSE2. I have one, using it with Mageia's Xfce4,
mostly for testing purposes, and curiosity. I did use this old laptop
with KDE4, but with the switch to Plasma 5 the GPU was no longer up to
the task. However, it runs Xfce nicely, though indeed slower than my
more modern multicore processors run 64-bit installs.

BTW, late-model P4s supported at least part of the amd64 instruction
set. I had one of those, too, until I retired it about four production
machines ago.

Mageia supplies three kernel "flavors" for i586. They are called
"desktop586," "desktop," and "server." The first is for older processors
that do not support SSE2. The second is for those that do support it,
and the third is for machines with more than 4GB of RAM. There are
several other differences, but they are not relevant to this discussion.

> Additionally, most distros discontinued i686 due to the small amount of
> users that still need it.
>
Mageia is not "most distros," and the people that create it recognize
that while few users "need" i586/i686, several more may "want" it.

BTW, I am also a part of the Mageia QA team.

Am 21.11.2022 um 08:21:56 Uhr schrieb TJ:

> On 2022-10-22 03:22, Marco Moock wrote:
> > Am 22.10.2022 um 11:06:53 Uhr schrieb Mikey:
> >
> >> I installed Mageia 8 32-bit to test some software bugs.
> >> It seems rather slow, like clicking on a menu, notice the lag
> >> before it pops up.
> >> I have a few old PCs for testing distros, they have Ivy Bridge 3400
> >> MHz CPU and WD black hard drives. Seems good enough for most
> >> distros to be responsive.
> >> Any reason 32-bit would be so shite?
> >
> > It completely makes no sense to run 32 bit (i686) on a CPU that is
> > capable of amd64 (64 bit).
> >
> > The i686 builds don't use SSE2/3 etc. to be compatible with old CPUs
> > like Pentium Pro (real Intel 686) and Pentium 2/3/4.
> >
> > 64 bit can use SSE2 because every 64 bit (amd64/Intel64) CPU
> > supports it.
> >
> The P4 does support SSE2.

Wrong. Every Pentium 4 supports SSE2. Prescott and Cedar Mill support
SSE3.

> BTW, late-model P4s supported at least part of the amd64 instruction
> set. I had one of those, too, until I retired it about four
> production machines ago.

That is Prescott-2M and Cedar Mill. Some Prescott also support it.
Some instructions aren't supported (LAHF/SAHF), but required by Windows
8.1 and 10.

> Mageia supplies three kernel "flavors" for i586. They are called
> "desktop586," "desktop," and "server." The first is for older
> processors that do not support SSE2.

True, because 586 didn't have SSE nor SSE2. SSE has been introduced
with Pentium 3 (Athlon XP had it), SSE2 has been introduced with the
first Pentium 4.

> The second is for those that do support it, and the third is for machines with more than 4GB of RAM.
> There are several other differences, but they are not relevant to
> this discussion.

Does server mean it is the amd64 kernel?

On 2022-11-21 08:44, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Mageia supplies three kernel "flavors" for i586. They are called
>> "desktop586," "desktop," and "server." The first is for older
>> processors that do not support SSE2.
> True, because 586 didn't have SSE nor SSE2. SSE has been introduced
> with Pentium 3 (Athlon XP had it), SSE2 has been introduced with the
> first Pentium 4.
>
>> The second is for those that do support it, and the third is for machines with more than 4GB of RAM.
>> There are several other differences, but they are not relevant to
>> this discussion.
> Does server mean it is the amd64 kernel?
>
No. All of those are 32-bit. There is another set for 64-bits.

A better explanation of Mageia kernels can be found at
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Kernel_flavours

It is written with the novice in mind, but it does give the information
you seek.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 08:44:14 -0500, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> Does server mean it is the amd64 kernel?

From https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Kernel_flavours#kernel-server

"The 32bits version is optimized for i686, multi-core (SMP) and is able to address up to 64 Gb memory. The Mageia installer selects it if your hardware has more than 3.8 Gb memory and you have a 32 bits architecture, or if it finds that your hardware is a server. Server hardware means if dmidecode reports special kinds of chassis only reported on most rackmounted servers."

Regards, Dave Hodgins

On 21/11/2022 13:44, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 21.11.2022 um 08:21:56 Uhr schrieb TJ:
>
>> On 2022-10-22 03:22, Marco Moock wrote:

>>> 64 bit can use SSE2 because every 64 bit (amd64/Intel64) CPU
>>> supports it.
>>>
>> The P4 does support SSE2.
>
> Wrong. Every Pentium 4 supports SSE2. Prescott and Cedar Mill support
> SSE3.

???????

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

Am 22.11.2022 um 10:58:23 Uhr schrieb The Natural Philosopher:

> On 21/11/2022 13:44, Marco Moock wrote:
> > Am 21.11.2022 um 08:21:56 Uhr schrieb TJ:
> >
> >> On 2022-10-22 03:22, Marco Moock wrote:
>
> >>> 64 bit can use SSE2 because every 64 bit (amd64/Intel64) CPU
> >>> supports it.
> >>>
> >> The P4 does support SSE2.
> >
> > Wrong. Every Pentium 4 supports SSE2. Prescott and Cedar Mill
> > support SSE3.
>
> ???????

My mistake. Instead of "Wrong" I should have written "Right".

On 22/11/2022 11:44, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 22.11.2022 um 10:58:23 Uhr schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>
>> On 21/11/2022 13:44, Marco Moock wrote:
>>> Am 21.11.2022 um 08:21:56 Uhr schrieb TJ:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-10-22 03:22, Marco Moock wrote:
>>
>>>>> 64 bit can use SSE2 because every 64 bit (amd64/Intel64) CPU
>>>>> supports it.
>>>>>
>>>> The P4 does support SSE2.
>>>
>>> Wrong. Every Pentium 4 supports SSE2. Prescott and Cedar Mill
>>> support SSE3.
>>
>> ???????
>
> My mistake. Instead of "Wrong" I should have written "Right".
>

Phew. I though my brain had turned to senile porridge for a minute there!

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)