On 10/1/2022 4:35 AM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> Perhaps I should wait a little bit longer with this, especially since no pressure test of heatsink and heatspreader has been done, though perhaps this chip has same issue as Alder Lake because it's construction is very similiar.
>
> Having said that, these are my "feelings" about AMD Ryzen 7950X:
>
> Let's start with the good:
> 1. Multi-Threading performance is fantastic. 16 Performance Cores / 32 Threads. Core performance anywhere from 3.5 GHz to 5.X GHz.
> 2. Single-Threading performance is good/acceptable. 4.x to 5.x GHz.
> 3. Build quality of motherboards so far seem good, but time will tell. No annoying fan.
>
> Let's continue with the interesting:
> 4. The integrated GPU seems quite powerfull, but I can't help but feel that if it were double or four times as powerfull this processor would have dominated the world !
> 5. ECO mode processor can run at 104 watts or 65 watts, something like that, and still perform very well. Single threaded performance say, Multi-threaded performance slighty less but still faster then the competition.
>
> Let's continue with the bad:
> 6. First boot time are unacceptably high, especially when users need to trouble-shoot and swap hardware/memory chips/graphics cards/etc.
> 7. Second boot times also seem quite high 30 seconds for hardware 20 seconds for operating system.
>
> Let's continue with the doubtfull:
> 8. The temperatures are quite high 90 to 95 degrees celcius are reported on stock settings. This may be caused by thick/fat heatspreader, and maybe a single that contact/pressure is not good, hence waiting for pressure test to shine more light on this.
> 9. Some memory kits/chips did not work well. Most seem to test with 32 GB of RAM, an unacceptably low ammount of RAM.
>
> Let's continue with the somewhat painfull:
> 10. Processor still somewhat expensive.
> 11. Motherboards expensive.
> 12. RAM expensive.
>
> Let's continue with the regretfull:
> 13. NVIDIA graphics cards seem to have issue with power delivery and melting cables, especially RTX 4080/RTX4090 is a doubtfull release, one board partner has closed up shop already: E-VGA.
> 14. Expensive power supply needed for all these watts.
>
> Let's continue with the optimistic:
> 15. Better cases seem available, though I personally would still have to look into it.
> 16. Better monitors available, but these have been available for some time.
>
> Let's continue with the uncertain:
> 17. Lot's of USB ports, but most of them on the back, not sure how usefull this would be for connecting devices, devices may have too short cables to be of much use.
> 18. Don't know yet about M2. slots, seem a bit low.
>
> Let's continue with the usual:
> 19. Sata connections seem plenty full, 6 to 8 depending on motherboard.
> 20. Network connections, some have only 1, some have 2. Since my cable modem can nowadays connect 4 computers, 1 may be sufficient unless it breaks or something or has some driver issues or instability, ethernet port very important to connect to the internet, otherwise computer would be nearly useless. A motherboard with to ethernet ports might be a better choice, may also give some extra capabilities like connecting NAS for some people, though I don't use it. Directly connecting to PC maybe safer from hackers.
> Maybe PC can also be connected via USB to cable modem and use internet, not sure... hmmm...
>
> For now what is holding me back from making a purchase:
>
> 1. High boot times, this is horribly frustrating and can become quite annoying in far future if CMOS battery is empty or dead, strange.
> 2. High temperature, not sure if DUST build up around CPU will catch fire.
> 3. Issues/High Temperatures/Melting cables with latest NVIDIA graphics cards.
> 4. High price of NVIDIA graphics cards.
> 5. Issues with RAM kits/chips/overall low RAM capacity seen so far.
> 6. To prospect of 3D/VCache on future processor.
> 7. Maybe even a threadripper release :)
> 8. No pressure test information yet on heatsink/heatspreader contact.
> 9. Almost necessity of liquid cooling.
> 10. Incompatibility with some AM4 coolers, backplate issues ?
> 11. ASSRock sticker scare on RAM slots ? WTF ?!?.
> 12. Lack of specialized AM5 coolers ?!?
> 13. Low capacity of Solid State Disks, 1 TB is peanuts.
> 14. Cases not being able to mount many harddisks.
> 15. Cases not being able to mount card readers.
> 16. Apperently Cases all optimized for airflow to deal with hot chips.
> 17. The idea of having to clean 15 fans or something crazy like that.
> 18. Risk of system overheat due to dust filters clogged up.
> 19. Risk of system damage due to necessary cleaning of dust build.
> 20. Complex bios also putting me off slightly, though maybe I will like all the extra information if I buy it... but don't count on it for now...
> 21. Enormous ammount of work to shift through all possibly component choices.
> 22. Risk of components not working together.
>
> Experience wise the benefit of a Desktop PC is minor compared to a Widescreen Laptop.
>
> The biggest difference is the graphics card and monitor, these can be big and huge. However with the incoming NVIDIA DOOM the Desktop PC is suddenly a lot less attractive.
>
> Another big difference is more storage capacity for drives. This could be beaten with Network Attached Storage devices, but these too hackable/backdoor-ed and risky/dangerous. Also does not feel comfortable thinking of network corruption/errors.
>
> In exchange for big monitor and big graphics card, huge noise and dust and cleaning/damage issues and also some significant time loss in cleaning these systems, plus increased risk of building your own system/component/fitting/heating/cooling/power/compability problems.
>
> The only really improvement I see, besides performance, over my previous DreamPC from 2006 is no more motherboard fan.
>
> Not much has improved, instead a lot of things have become worse and I can't believe this boot issue now affects everybody with these systems, not just me ! LOL.
>
> I am kinda liking the Laptop I have right now, low maintenance, no discrete gpu does have it advantages, less addiction ;)
>
> The lack of extra USB ports is annoying though, can't connect my extra USB external harddisk, without losing mouse support...
>
> All the extra complexities like RGB controllers, not sure if I am ready for that :)
>
> For now I am going to wait and see a bit how this develops further, any issues uncovered with these systems or any improvements uncovered... also how is the RTX 4090 power cable issue going to play out... hmmm and insanely high 500+ wattage.
>
> Back then I wanted to buy an ARM system in the future. I have started liking passively cooled systems or as few fans as possible a lot.
>
> This is where reviewers and youtubers can do something interesting:
>
> How low can you go on the ventilator count ?! ;)
>
> Bye for now,
> Skybuck.
>

It's too expensive.

Graphics on integrated GPU, seem weaker than your GT 1030.
The graphics on my 5600G are more powerful. That was likely
done so more power could go to the CPU (EasyBake Oven). The
APU versions of the family will have a better integrated GPU.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/22.html

The only reason they can cool the chipset without a fan, is
because they've split the PCH into chiplets.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amds-multi-chiplet-x670-x670e-strategy

Here's a picture of a top end board with two PCH on it. That's still
a 15W thermal load, in the lower right corner of the motherboard. The
motherboard maker is still putting a shared plate over top of those.
A plate without cooling fins.

https://technewsspace.com/msi-prepares-meg-x670e-godlike-flagship-board-for-amd-ryzen-7000-chips-with-27-phase-power-supply-subsystem/

The CPU is designed to run at 90C as a "normal" temperature.

https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/images/power-per-application.png

SuperPI 25W at CPU
7ZIP 180W at CPU
Blender 230W at CPU

( https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/24.html )

That suggests that maybe 7ZIP is memory starved. They may not
have adjusted 7ZIP properly to get more out of it (use 2x thread
count to run closer to 100% CPU). The 7ZIP "benchmark" menu item
may not be the best for this sort of test.

I still think it'll need a CPU cooler. The room will still
have the noise of the CPU fan and the case fan on the back.

And that's before any add-on video card is installed in the box.
For a top end video card, it's like an 850W power supply with
the right connectors on it. And those would be around $150.

The top end motherboard is $1300, which suggests some of the
others might be 25% more than the current generation.

https://www.newegg.com/msi-meg-x670e-godlike/p/N82E16813144552

And at $1300, look at the I/O plate. Looks like seven 1GB/sec USB
and two 2GB/sec USB. Your keyboard and mouse will use 1GB/sec ports :-)
There's space on that I/O plate for a little more goodness. Like
the USB2 for keyboard and mouse.