From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories

Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
and the stuff of adventure!

https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
>From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
>
>Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
>and the stuff of adventure!
>
>https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/

The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by Stanton A. Coblentz.

I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's.

On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
> >
> >From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
> >
> >Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
> >and the stuff of adventure!
> >
> >https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
> The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by Stanton A. Coblentz.
>
> I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's..

I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:

1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on the inside.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorld

2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain civilizations.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth

Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no gravity on the inside, and
things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example, along with Rudy
Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.

Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The Coming Race' by
Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame). Verne's 'Journey to the
Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read at least half a dozen books
using the trope.

pt

In article <d6d7772e-9c76-4f5c-9241-f123beff6daan@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>> >
>> >From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
>> >
>> >Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
>> >and the stuff of adventure!
>> >
>>
>>https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
>> The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by Stanton
>A. Coblentz.
>>
>> I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's.
>
>I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:
>
>1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on the inside.
>https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorld
>
>2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain civilizations.
>https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth
>
>Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no
>gravity on the inside, and
>things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example,
>along with Rudy
>Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.
>
>Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The
>Coming Race' by
>Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame).
>Verne's 'Journey to the
>Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read at
>least half a dozen books
>using the trope.
>

I believe The Shaver Mystery cosmos is type 2.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 10:13:12 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
>
> Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
> and the stuff of adventure!
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
>

My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
Journey to the Centre of the Earth.

One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.

Tony

Tony Nance wrote:
> James Nicoll wrote:
>> From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
>>
>> Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
>> and the stuff of adventure!
>>
>> https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
>>
>
> My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
> Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
>
> One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
> it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
> that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
> some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.

Betwixt John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologue in _Atlas Shrugged_

<https://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73>

and the tedious Thomas Cardif ceaseless character arc in Perry Rhodan

<https://www.perrypedia.de/wiki/Thomas_Cardif>

lies the hellacious Horror heavenly body

<https://www.perrypedia.de/wiki/Horror>

It's a trap - four levels of spheres within spheres. Perry's ship is
thrown into the core of a planetary Fabergé egg to fight its way out,
one level at a time. It takes a total of twelve novellas before the
remnant of the crew finally emerges from the horror.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

On Monday, 23 October 2023 at 20:59:49 UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
> > >
> > >From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
> > >
> > >Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
> > >and the stuff of adventure!
> > >
> > >https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
> > The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by Stanton A. Coblentz.
> >
> > I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's.
> I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:
>
> 1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on the inside.
> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorld
>
> 2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain civilizations.
> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth
>
> Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no gravity on the inside, and
> things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example, along with Rudy
> Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.
>
> Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The Coming Race' by
> Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame). Verne's 'Journey to the
> Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read at least half a dozen books
> using the trope.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth> covers both
types, including fiction.

Not included there, there's
<:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Empire>
in which " a singing cowboy stumbles upon an ancient
subterranean civilization living beneath his 'Radio Ranch'."

Do we count <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraggle_Rock>?

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_Door> ?

Perhaps just a variation on Type 1 is that this /is/
the inside of the Earth-sphere which is a vacant
bubble inside possibly an infinite volume of rock.
No story is listed for that model, but apparently
an actual extinct American cult from Victorian
times, The Koreshan Unity, went for it.

In article <e5f894df-f7c8-4fcc-be05-b59d07ca33dfn@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Monday, 23 October 2023 at 20:59:49 UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> > jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>> > >
>> > >From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
>> > >
>> > >Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
>> > >and the stuff of adventure!
>> > >
>> >
>>https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
>> > The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by
>Stanton A. Coblentz.
>> >
>> > I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's.
>> I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:
>>
>> 1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on
>the inside.
>> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorld
>>
>> 2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain
>civilizations.
>> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth
>>
>> Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no
>gravity on the inside, and
>> things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example,
>along with Rudy
>> Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.
>>
>> Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The
>Coming Race' by
>> Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame).
>Verne's 'Journey to the
>> Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read at
>least half a dozen books
>> using the trope.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth> covers both
>types, including fiction.
>
>Not included there, there's
><:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Empire>
>in which " a singing cowboy stumbles upon an ancient
>subterranean civilization living beneath his 'Radio Ranch'."
>
>Do we count <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraggle_Rock>?
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_Door> ?
>
>Perhaps just a variation on Type 1 is that this /is/
>the inside of the Earth-sphere which is a vacant
>bubble inside possibly an infinite volume of rock.
>No story is listed for that model, but apparently
>an actual extinct American cult from Victorian
>times, The Koreshan Unity, went for it.

That would be the work of Cyrus Reed Teed, mentioned in the
essay.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Tuesday, 24 October 2023 at 20:29:11 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <e5f894df-f7c8-4fcc...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, 23 October 2023 at 20:59:49 UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> > jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
> >> > >
> >> > >From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
> >> > >
> >> > >Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
> >> > >and the stuff of adventure!
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
> >> > The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by
> >Stanton A. Coblentz.
> >> >
> >> > I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's.
> >> I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:
> >>
> >> 1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on
> >the inside.
> >> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorld
> >>
> >> 2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain
> >civilizations.
> >> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth
> >>
> >> Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no
> >gravity on the inside, and
> >> things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example,
> >along with Rudy
> >> Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.
> >>
> >> Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The
> >Coming Race' by
> >> Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame).
> >Verne's 'Journey to the
> >> Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read at
> >least half a dozen books
> >> using the trope.
> >
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth> covers both
> >types, including fiction.
> >
> >Not included there, there's
> ><:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Empire>
> >in which " a singing cowboy stumbles upon an ancient
> >subterranean civilization living beneath his 'Radio Ranch'."
> >
> >Do we count <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraggle_Rock>?
> >
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_Door> ?
> >
> >Perhaps just a variation on Type 1 is that this /is/
> >the inside of the Earth-sphere which is a vacant
> >bubble inside possibly an infinite volume of rock.
> >No story is listed for that model, but apparently
> >an actual extinct American cult from Victorian
> >times, The Koreshan Unity, went for it.
> That would be the work of Cyrus Reed Teed, mentioned in the
> essay.

Teed indeed. But if you mentioned an Earth that
we're on the inside of, I missed it, although your
column illustration seems to represent one.
But I think you said that the column pictures
aren't yours - or have I got that wrong?

In article <55c479d6-43fa-4bba-b4b7-ce86153a6c44n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, 24 October 2023 at 20:29:11 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <e5f894df-f7c8-4fcc...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >On Monday, 23 October 2023 at 20:59:49 UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> >> > jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five
>Hollow-Earth Stories
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
>> >> > >and the stuff of adventure!
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>>
>>>https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
>> >> > The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by
>> >Stanton A. Coblentz.
>> >> >
>> >> > I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the
>early 70's.
>> >> I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:
>> >>
>> >> 1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on
>> >the inside.
>> >> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorld
>> >>
>> >> 2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain
>> >civilizations.
>> >> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth
>> >>
>> >> Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no
>> >gravity on the inside, and
>> >> things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example,
>> >along with Rudy
>> >> Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.
>> >>
>> >> Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The
>> >Coming Race' by
>> >> Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame).
>> >Verne's 'Journey to the
>> >> Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read at
>> >least half a dozen books
>> >> using the trope.
>> >
>> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth> covers both
>> >types, including fiction.
>> >
>> >Not included there, there's
>> ><:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Empire>
>> >in which " a singing cowboy stumbles upon an ancient
>> >subterranean civilization living beneath his 'Radio Ranch'."
>> >
>> >Do we count <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraggle_Rock>?
>> >
>> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_Door> ?
>> >
>> >Perhaps just a variation on Type 1 is that this /is/
>> >the inside of the Earth-sphere which is a vacant
>> >bubble inside possibly an infinite volume of rock.
>> >No story is listed for that model, but apparently
>> >an actual extinct American cult from Victorian
>> >times, The Koreshan Unity, went for it.
>> That would be the work of Cyrus Reed Teed, mentioned in the
>> essay.
>
>Teed indeed. But if you mentioned an Earth that
>we're on the inside of, I missed it, although your
>column illustration seems to represent one.
>But I think you said that the column pictures
>aren't yours - or have I got that wrong?

I mostly don't have input on the art, although sometimes I ask
for specific covers and provide the odd graphic.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On 24/10/2023 08.36, Don wrote:
> Tony Nance wrote:
>> James Nicoll wrote:
>>> From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
>>>
>>> Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
>>> and the stuff of adventure!
>>>
>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
>>>
>>
>> My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
>> Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
>>
>> One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
>> it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
>> that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
>> some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.
>
> Betwixt John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologue in _Atlas Shrugged_
>
> <https://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73>

I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".

--
Michael F. Stemper
Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> Don wrote:
>> Tony Nance wrote:
>>> James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
>>>>
>>>> Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
>>>> and the stuff of adventure!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
>>>>
>>>
>>> My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
>>> Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
>>>
>>> One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
>>> it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
>>> that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
>>> some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.
>>
>> Betwixt John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologue in _Atlas Shrugged_
>>
>> <https://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73>
>
> I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".

John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up
philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 11:10:56 AM UTC-4, Don wrote:
> Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > Don wrote:
> >> Tony Nance wrote:
> >>> James Nicoll wrote:
> >>>> From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
> >>>>
> >>>> Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
> >>>> and the stuff of adventure!
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
> >>> Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
> >>>
> >>> One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
> >>> it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
> >>> that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
> >>> some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.
> >>
> >> Betwixt John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologue in _Atlas Shrugged_
> >>
> >> <https://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73>
> >
> > I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".
> John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
> ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
> share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
> on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
> It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
> Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
> Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up
> philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
> Danke,

Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged'
have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist
can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
one in TF a bit shorter.

These are so core to the author's estimation of the books that when TF was
made into a daily comic, the lecture was spread out over several weeks of
strips. Ayn Rand herself condensed it by about 90%, but it still took 25 strips
of 400-500 words each.

https://newideal.aynrand.org/the-illustrated-fountainhead-serializing-a-classic-novel/

pt

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:43:02 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 11:10:56?AM UTC-4, Don wrote:
>> Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> > Don wrote:
>> >> Tony Nance wrote:
>> >>> James Nicoll wrote:
>> >>>> From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
>> >>>> and the stuff of adventure!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
>> >>> Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
>> >>>
>> >>> One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
>> >>> it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
>> >>> that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
>> >>> some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.
>> >>
>> >> Betwixt John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologue in _Atlas Shrugged_
>> >>
>> >> <https://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73>
>> >
>> > I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".
>> John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
>> ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
>> share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
>> on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
>> It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
>> Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
>> Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up
>> philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
>> Danke,
>
>Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged'
>have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist
>can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
>one in TF a bit shorter.

The one in AS is, IIRC, a very complete exposition of Objectivism.

>These are so core to the author's estimation of the books that when TF was
>made into a daily comic, the lecture was spread out over several weeks of
>strips. Ayn Rand herself condensed it by about 90%, but it still took 25 strips
>of 400-500 words each.
>
>https://newideal.aynrand.org/the-illustrated-fountainhead-serializing-a-classic-novel/

I recall reading somewhere that she haunted the set of the TF movie,
to make sure the speech made it in.

I don't think she ever used the term "Hollywierd", but apparently she
wasn't willing to trust them to do the job properly without her
constant input.

It was only when I saw that movie that I realized how ... artificial
.... her dialogue was. It worked fine in the book, where I was reading
it to myself, but not when spoken by others.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 26/10/2023 10.43, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:43:02 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 11:10:56?AM UTC-4, Don wrote:

>>>> I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".
>>> John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
>>> ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
>>> share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
>>> on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
>>> It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
>>> Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
>>> Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up
>>> philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
>>> Danke,
>>
>> Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged'
>> have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist
>> can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
>> one in TF a bit shorter.
>
> The one in AS is, IIRC, a very complete exposition of Objectivism.

I always assumed that Galt's speech was the reason for the book.

--
Michael F. Stemper
This email is to be read by its intended recipient only. Any other party
reading is required by the EULA to send me $500.00.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:46:06 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
<michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 26/10/2023 10.43, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:43:02 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
>> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 11:10:56?AM UTC-4, Don wrote:
>
>>>>> I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".
>>>> John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
>>>> ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
>>>> share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
>>>> on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
>>>> It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
>>>> Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
>>>> Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up
>>>> philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
>>>> Danke,
>>>
>>> Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged'
>>> have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist
>>> can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
>>> one in TF a bit shorter.
>>
>> The one in AS is, IIRC, a very complete exposition of Objectivism.
>
>I always assumed that Galt's speech was the reason for the book.

It would not surprise me if it was.

The AS films managed to avoid it as such, although a lot of the
philosphy appeared here and there or was directly illustrated. But
then, Ayn Rand wasn't around to supervise any more and the credits
clearly state that her Estate gave their permission but did not
participate.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Paul wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>>Paul S Person wrote:
>>> peter wrote:
>>>> Don wrote:
>>>>> Michael wrote:

<snip>

>>>>>> I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".
>>>>> John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
>>>>> ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
>>>>> share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
>>>>> on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
>>>>> It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
>>>>> Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
>>>>> Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up
>>>>> philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
>>>>> Danke,
>>>>
>>>> Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged'
>>>> have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist
>>>> can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
>>>> one in TF a bit shorter.
>>>
>>> The one in AS is, IIRC, a very complete exposition of Objectivism.
>>
>>I always assumed that Galt's speech was the reason for the book.
>
> It would not surprise me if it was.
>
> The AS films managed to avoid it as such, although a lot of the
> philosphy appeared here and there or was directly illustrated. But
> then, Ayn Rand wasn't around to supervise any more and the credits
> clearly state that her Estate gave their permission but did not
> participate.

Here's a canonical answer:

Because Atlas Shrugged is a long novel with a complex and abstract
theme, there is an ever-present danger of either focusing on the
speeches and abstract theme of the novel at the expense of the
story, or of focusing on the story's events while losing sight of
their abstract meaning. Both are errors.

<https://aynrand.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Atlas-Shrugged-Teaching-Guide.pdf>

Regardless, it's my plebeian pleasure to focus on events at the expense
of exposition philosophic.
"Balph," "Tinky," "Kip," "Kip's Ma," "Chick," "Buzzy?" Such idiotic
names, nick or not, make me laugh out loud. It also feels righteous for
Rand to give it to crony capitalism good and hard at every turn.
Then there's the Dagny "Ayn" Taggart "reverse harem" (Ted's words)
romantic fantasy. Who knew _Atlas Shrugged_ was a romance with the three
worthiest men on Earth all lusting for Dagny Ayn Mary Sue's hot,
"strictly business" body?
You'd think she'd fling a fork at little Eddie Willers, whose been
in love with her all of his life - as Dagny Ayn well knows. But no,
Objectivism forbid she pity Eddie.
Rand minored in philosophy. Objectivism works well in Rand's
mostly childless fantasy world where everyone who matters is
relatively young and in good health.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

On 27/10/2023 13.23, Don wrote:

> "Balph," "Tinky," "Kip," "Kip's Ma," "Chick," "Buzzy?" Such idiotic
> names, nick or not, make me laugh out loud. It also feels righteous for
> Rand to give it to crony capitalism good and hard at every turn.
> Then there's the Dagny "Ayn" Taggart "reverse harem" (Ted's words)
> romantic fantasy. Who knew _Atlas Shrugged_ was a romance with the three
> worthiest men on Earth all lusting for Dagny Ayn Mary Sue's hot,
> "strictly business" body?
> You'd think she'd fling a fork at little Eddie Willers, whose been
> in love with her all of his life - as Dagny Ayn well knows. But no,
> Objectivism forbid she pity Eddie.
> Rand minored in philosophy. Objectivism works well in Rand's
> mostly childless fantasy world where everyone who matters is
> relatively young and in good health.

<snerk>

Actually, your last point reminds me of _Beggars in Spain_ by Nancy
Kress. The "Sleepless", by virtue of their superior morality, form
sort of a commune (without anything being communal, of course). They
look to be a bunch of good little Objectivists, and one thinks that
it's going to be a paean to Randism (or at least, I did).

Then, one of the residents of "it's really not Galt's Gulch" comes
down with some chronic illness.

<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2378>

--
Michael F. Stemper
This post contains greater than 95% post-consumer bytes by weight.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 18:23:44 -0000 (UTC), Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:

>Paul wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>>Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> peter wrote:
>>>>> Don wrote:
>>>>>> Michael wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>>>>>> I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".
>>>>>> John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
>>>>>> ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
>>>>>> share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
>>>>>> on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
>>>>>> It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
>>>>>> Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
>>>>>> Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up
>>>>>> philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
>>>>>> Danke,
>>>>>
>>>>> Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged'
>>>>> have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist
>>>>> can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
>>>>> one in TF a bit shorter.
>>>>
>>>> The one in AS is, IIRC, a very complete exposition of Objectivism.
>>>
>>>I always assumed that Galt's speech was the reason for the book.
>>
>> It would not surprise me if it was.
>>
>> The AS films managed to avoid it as such, although a lot of the
>> philosphy appeared here and there or was directly illustrated. But
>> then, Ayn Rand wasn't around to supervise any more and the credits
>> clearly state that her Estate gave their permission but did not
>> participate.
>
>Here's a canonical answer:
>
> Because Atlas Shrugged is a long novel with a complex and abstract
> theme, there is an ever-present danger of either focusing on the
> speeches and abstract theme of the novel at the expense of the
> story, or of focusing on the story's events while losing sight of
> their abstract meaning. Both are errors.
>
><https://aynrand.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Atlas-Shrugged-Teaching-Guide.pdf>

By that standard, the films did rather well (IMHO, of course), telling
the story (more or less) while also incorporating the "abstract
meaning" in non-abstract form (to some extent).

>Regardless, it's my plebeian pleasure to focus on events at the expense
>of exposition philosophic.
> "Balph," "Tinky," "Kip," "Kip's Ma," "Chick," "Buzzy?" Such idiotic
>names, nick or not, make me laugh out loud. It also feels righteous for
>Rand to give it to crony capitalism good and hard at every turn.
> Then there's the Dagny "Ayn" Taggart "reverse harem" (Ted's words)
>romantic fantasy. Who knew _Atlas Shrugged_ was a romance with the three
>worthiest men on Earth all lusting for Dagny Ayn Mary Sue's hot,
>"strictly business" body?
> You'd think she'd fling a fork at little Eddie Willers, whose been
>in love with her all of his life - as Dagny Ayn well knows. But no,
>Objectivism forbid she pity Eddie.

IIRC, all of her heroines were strong women who had to be raped to
have sex. But perhap's I /don't/ RC; it's been quite some time since I
read the books.

> Rand minored in philosophy. Objectivism works well in Rand's
>mostly childless fantasy world where everyone who matters is
>relatively young and in good health.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"