“Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09

Science !

Lynn

On 11/10/2023 3:22 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>    https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>
> Science !

(Some flotation required)

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
It is the dice, in fact, that play God with the universe.
- King Luca (Darren Bleuel)

On 11/10/2023 2:30 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 3:22 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>>     https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>>
>> Science !
>
> (Some flotation required)

You know, that could be an old Amphicar that Frank is driving.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphicar

Lynn

On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>“Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>
>Science !

Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?

Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?

Or both?
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 11/11/2023 12:19 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>>
>> Science !
>
> Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?
>
> Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?
>
> Or both?

According to https://www.space.com/17638-how-big-is-earth.html

"The equatorial circumference of Earth is 24,901 miles (40,075 km).
However, from the North Pole to the South Pole, the so-called meridional
circumference is smaller, at 24,860 miles (40,008 km). That reveals that
our planet is flattened at the poles, meaning its shape is an oblate
spheroid."

That suggests that the equitorial great circle is maximal, and those at
an angle would be smaller. Of course once one is talking about road
miles the circumnavigation distance will be significantly larger.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
It is the dice, in fact, that play God with the universe.
- King Luca (Darren Bleuel)

On 11/11/2023 11:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>>
>> Science !
>
> Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?
>
> Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?
>
> Or both?

Sorry, none whatsoever. I just enjoyed the comic.

Lynn

On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:36:29 -0500, Mark Jackson
<mjackson@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:

>On 11/11/2023 12:19 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>>>
>>> Science !
>>
>> Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?
>>
>> Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?
>>
>> Or both?
>
>According to https://www.space.com/17638-how-big-is-earth.html
>
>"The equatorial circumference of Earth is 24,901 miles (40,075 km).
>However, from the North Pole to the South Pole, the so-called meridional
>circumference is smaller, at 24,860 miles (40,008 km). That reveals that
>our planet is flattened at the poles, meaning its shape is an oblate
>spheroid."
>
>That suggests that the equitorial great circle is maximal, and those at
>an angle would be smaller. Of course once one is talking about road
>miles the circumnavigation distance will be significantly larger.

Thanks for the information.

So, "Frank and Ernest" is set ... on the Equator.

I would expect traveling along, say, the 40th parallel would be a
shorter trip.

Ignoring the road miles correction, about which you are correct.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Friday, 10 November 2023 at 20:30:28 UTC, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 3:22 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
> > https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
> >
> > Science !
> (Some flotation required)

I haven't investigated but there may also be hills to cross.
However, on scale, the Earth's deviation from "round"
is quite small.

Also, consider the circumference of a circle constructed
one metre above sea level right around the equator.

The Earth is not only distorted by rotation.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_the_Earth>
refers to the "geoid" of sea level as if the Earth
is rotating but is not subject to tides.

On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 16:48:41 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:36:29 -0500, Mark Jackson
> <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
> >On 11/11/2023 12:19 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
> >> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
> >>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
> >>>
> >>> Science !
> >>
> >> Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?
> >>
> >> Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?
> >>
> >> Or both?
> >
> >According to https://www.space.com/17638-how-big-is-earth.html
> >
> >"The equatorial circumference of Earth is 24,901 miles (40,075 km).
> >However, from the North Pole to the South Pole, the so-called meridional
> >circumference is smaller, at 24,860 miles (40,008 km). That reveals that
> >our planet is flattened at the poles, meaning its shape is an oblate
> >spheroid."
> >
> >That suggests that the equitorial great circle is maximal, and those at
> >an angle would be smaller. Of course once one is talking about road
> >miles the circumnavigation distance will be significantly larger.
> Thanks for the information.
>
> So, "Frank and Ernest" is set ... on the Equator.
>
> I would expect traveling along, say, the 40th parallel would be a
> shorter trip.
>
> Ignoring the road miles correction, about which you are correct.

On the contrary, you are comparing a road lying
along the 40th parallel to a road along a "great circle",
with the latter as the shortest surface route between
two points on it. If Earth was a sphere, which it
isn't quite.

On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:02:02 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 16:48:41 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:36:29 -0500, Mark Jackson
>> <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >On 11/11/2023 12:19 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>> >> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>> >>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>> >>>
>> >>> Science !
>> >>
>> >> Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?
>> >>
>> >> Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?
>> >>
>> >> Or both?
>> >
>> >According to https://www.space.com/17638-how-big-is-earth.html
>> >
>> >"The equatorial circumference of Earth is 24,901 miles (40,075 km).
>> >However, from the North Pole to the South Pole, the so-called meridional
>> >circumference is smaller, at 24,860 miles (40,008 km). That reveals that
>> >our planet is flattened at the poles, meaning its shape is an oblate
>> >spheroid."
>> >
>> >That suggests that the equitorial great circle is maximal, and those at
>> >an angle would be smaller. Of course once one is talking about road
>> >miles the circumnavigation distance will be significantly larger.
>> Thanks for the information.
>>
>> So, "Frank and Ernest" is set ... on the Equator.
>>
>> I would expect traveling along, say, the 40th parallel would be a
>> shorter trip.
>>
>> Ignoring the road miles correction, about which you are correct.
>
>On the contrary, you are comparing a road lying
>along the 40th parallel to a road along a "great circle",
>with the latter as the shortest surface route between
>two points on it. If Earth was a sphere, which it
>isn't quite.

I think you are deceiving yourself.

I am talking about the length of the 40th parallel as it circles (so
to speak) the globe. It clearly has a smaller radius than the equator
does, and so a smaller circumference.

You are talking about the difference between a route that looks like a
straight line on a flat map and a great circle.

The great circle is shorter because the flat map does not accurately
reflect the actual distances shown or even the relative positions of
the start and end points. Well, unless it looks like a squashed orange
peel and you are very careful how you use it, perhaps.

Or, to put it in terms that are endlessly useful, and not just in this
context:

The map is /not/ the terrain.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

In article <rkm4littr37nse4e879ukrln9u9k139v38@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>> >>> �Frank and Ernest�: Take the Long Way Home
>You are talking about the difference between a route that looks like a
>straight line on a flat map and a great circle.

[Hal Heydt]
On a Mercator projection, that would be a rhumb line.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 02:13:32 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <rkm4littr37nse4e879ukrln9u9k139v38@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>>You are talking about the difference between a route that looks like a
>>straight line on a flat map and a great circle.
>
>[Hal Heydt]
>On a Mercator projection, that would be a rhumb line.

Which? the straight line or the great circle?

And would that be in reality or just on the map?

What I was talking about would have been a rumb line, since it would
cross each and every meridian at a 90 degree angle. But, being at the
40th parallel, its length (circumference) would be less than one at
the equator.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

In article <rmv9li5e5i76o19b3208o55fhijl9hp92d@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 02:13:32 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <rkm4littr37nse4e879ukrln9u9k139v38@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> >>> �Frank and Ernest�: Take the Long Way Home
>>>You are talking about the difference between a route that looks like a
>>>straight line on a flat map and a great circle.
>>
>>[Hal Heydt]
>>On a Mercator projection, that would be a rhumb line.
>
>Which? the straight line or the great circle?

[Hal Heydt]
A straight line drawn on a Mercator Projection is a rhumb line.
As you note, it cuts meridians at a constant angle. If you
re-drew it on an actual sphere (or oblate spheroid matching the
shape of the Earth) it would be a spiral. Unless, of course, if
it cuts the meridians at 90 degrees.

>And would that be in reality or just on the map?
>
>What I was talking about would have been a rumb line, since it would
>cross each and every meridian at a 90 degree angle. But, being at the
>40th parallel, its length (circumference) would be less than one at
>the equator.

Precisely.

On Monday, 13 November 2023 at 17:26:14 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:02:02 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 16:48:41 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:36:29 -0500, Mark Jackson
> >> <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 11/11/2023 12:19 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
> >> >> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
> >> >>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Science !
> >> >>
> >> >> Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?
> >> >>
> >> >> Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?
> >> >>
> >> >> Or both?
> >> >
> >> >According to https://www.space.com/17638-how-big-is-earth.html
> >> >
> >> >"The equatorial circumference of Earth is 24,901 miles (40,075 km).
> >> >However, from the North Pole to the South Pole, the so-called meridional
> >> >circumference is smaller, at 24,860 miles (40,008 km). That reveals that
> >> >our planet is flattened at the poles, meaning its shape is an oblate
> >> >spheroid."
> >> >
> >> >That suggests that the equitorial great circle is maximal, and those at
> >> >an angle would be smaller. Of course once one is talking about road
> >> >miles the circumnavigation distance will be significantly larger.
> >> Thanks for the information.
> >>
> >> So, "Frank and Ernest" is set ... on the Equator.
> >>
> >> I would expect traveling along, say, the 40th parallel would be a
> >> shorter trip.
> >>
> >> Ignoring the road miles correction, about which you are correct.
> >
> >On the contrary, you are comparing a road lying
> >along the 40th parallel to a road along a "great circle",
> >with the latter as the shortest surface route between
> >two points on it. If Earth was a sphere, which it
> >isn't quite.
> I think you are deceiving yourself.
>
> I am talking about the length of the 40th parallel as it circles (so
> to speak) the globe. It clearly has a smaller radius than the equator
> does, and so a smaller circumference.
>
> You are talking about the difference between a route that looks like a
> straight line on a flat map and a great circle.
>
> The great circle is shorter because the flat map does not accurately
> reflect the actual distances shown or even the relative positions of
> the start and end points. Well, unless it looks like a squashed orange
> peel and you are very careful how you use it, perhaps.
>
> Or, to put it in terms that are endlessly useful, and not just in this
> context:
>
> The map is /not/ the terrain.

I can't tell if we're agreeing or disagreeing.

A great circle is the shortest route on the surface
of the globe, which is more-or-less a sphere.
A road on the 40th parallel is a curved road.

From the 40th parallel point on the Greenwich
0 degrees meridian, to the point on the 40th
parallel and the 180 degrees meridian, the
shortest surface route is across the pole.
The longest route is... across the other pole.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2023 08:38:29 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 13 November 2023 at 17:26:14 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:02:02 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 16:48:41 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:36:29 -0500, Mark Jackson
>> >> <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 11/11/2023 12:19 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>> >> >> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>> >> >>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Science !
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Or both?
>> >> >
>> >> >According to https://www.space.com/17638-how-big-is-earth.html
>> >> >
>> >> >"The equatorial circumference of Earth is 24,901 miles (40,075 km).
>> >> >However, from the North Pole to the South Pole, the so-called meridional
>> >> >circumference is smaller, at 24,860 miles (40,008 km). That reveals that
>> >> >our planet is flattened at the poles, meaning its shape is an oblate
>> >> >spheroid."
>> >> >
>> >> >That suggests that the equitorial great circle is maximal, and those at
>> >> >an angle would be smaller. Of course once one is talking about road
>> >> >miles the circumnavigation distance will be significantly larger.
>> >> Thanks for the information.
>> >>
>> >> So, "Frank and Ernest" is set ... on the Equator.
>> >>
>> >> I would expect traveling along, say, the 40th parallel would be a
>> >> shorter trip.
>> >>
>> >> Ignoring the road miles correction, about which you are correct.
>> >
>> >On the contrary, you are comparing a road lying
>> >along the 40th parallel to a road along a "great circle",
>> >with the latter as the shortest surface route between
>> >two points on it. If Earth was a sphere, which it
>> >isn't quite.
>> I think you are deceiving yourself.
>>
>> I am talking about the length of the 40th parallel as it circles (so
>> to speak) the globe. It clearly has a smaller radius than the equator
>> does, and so a smaller circumference.
>>
>> You are talking about the difference between a route that looks like a
>> straight line on a flat map and a great circle.
>>
>> The great circle is shorter because the flat map does not accurately
>> reflect the actual distances shown or even the relative positions of
>> the start and end points. Well, unless it looks like a squashed orange
>> peel and you are very careful how you use it, perhaps.
>>
>> Or, to put it in terms that are endlessly useful, and not just in this
>> context:
>>
>> The map is /not/ the terrain.
>
>I can't tell if we're agreeing or disagreeing.
>
>A great circle is the shortest route on the surface
>of the globe, which is more-or-less a sphere.
>A road on the 40th parallel is a curved road.
>
>From the 40th parallel point on the Greenwich
>0 degrees meridian, to the point on the 40th
>parallel and the 180 degrees meridian, the
>shortest surface route is across the pole.
>The longest route is... across the other pole.

We are talking about two different things.

Or do you /really/ think that the distance from the Prime Meridian has
/any/ relevance to the situation in the cartoon?

Which, from above, is:
>> >> >>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09

I am talking about the distance around the Earth at, say, 40 degrees
north versus the distance around the Earth at the Equator.

You are talking about ... something else entirely.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Saturday, 18 November 2023 at 16:46:48 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2023 08:38:29 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, 13 November 2023 at 17:26:14 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:02:02 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> >> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 16:48:41 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:36:29 -0500, Mark Jackson
> >> >> <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On 11/11/2023 12:19 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> >> >> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
> >> >> >> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
> >> >> >>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Science !
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Or both?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >According to https://www.space.com/17638-how-big-is-earth.html
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"The equatorial circumference of Earth is 24,901 miles (40,075 km)..
> >> >> >However, from the North Pole to the South Pole, the so-called meridional
> >> >> >circumference is smaller, at 24,860 miles (40,008 km). That reveals that
> >> >> >our planet is flattened at the poles, meaning its shape is an oblate
> >> >> >spheroid."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >That suggests that the equitorial great circle is maximal, and those at
> >> >> >an angle would be smaller. Of course once one is talking about road
> >> >> >miles the circumnavigation distance will be significantly larger.
> >> >> Thanks for the information.
> >> >>
> >> >> So, "Frank and Ernest" is set ... on the Equator.
> >> >>
> >> >> I would expect traveling along, say, the 40th parallel would be a
> >> >> shorter trip.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ignoring the road miles correction, about which you are correct.
> >> >
> >> >On the contrary, you are comparing a road lying
> >> >along the 40th parallel to a road along a "great circle",
> >> >with the latter as the shortest surface route between
> >> >two points on it. If Earth was a sphere, which it
> >> >isn't quite.
> >> I think you are deceiving yourself.
> >>
> >> I am talking about the length of the 40th parallel as it circles (so
> >> to speak) the globe. It clearly has a smaller radius than the equator
> >> does, and so a smaller circumference.
> >>
> >> You are talking about the difference between a route that looks like a
> >> straight line on a flat map and a great circle.
> >>
> >> The great circle is shorter because the flat map does not accurately
> >> reflect the actual distances shown or even the relative positions of
> >> the start and end points. Well, unless it looks like a squashed orange
> >> peel and you are very careful how you use it, perhaps.
> >>
> >> Or, to put it in terms that are endlessly useful, and not just in this
> >> context:
> >>
> >> The map is /not/ the terrain.
> >
> >I can't tell if we're agreeing or disagreeing.
> >
> >A great circle is the shortest route on the surface
> >of the globe, which is more-or-less a sphere.
> >A road on the 40th parallel is a curved road.
> >
> >From the 40th parallel point on the Greenwich
> >0 degrees meridian, to the point on the 40th
> >parallel and the 180 degrees meridian, the
> >shortest surface route is across the pole.
> >The longest route is... across the other pole.
> We are talking about two different things.
>
> Or do you /really/ think that the distance from the Prime Meridian has
> /any/ relevance to the situation in the cartoon?
>
> Which, from above, is:
> >> >> >>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>
> I am talking about the distance around the Earth at, say, 40 degrees
> north versus the distance around the Earth at the Equator.
>
> You are talking about ... something else entirely.

I'm talking about going from point A to point B
in a "straight line" when A and B are at 40 degrees
north. Of course, the "straight line" must fall on
the curved surface of the Earth, but it does not
follow the "parallel" contour if the points are a
significant distance apart. I described an example
where the shortest route goes across the North Pole.

At point A, facing towards point B does not mean facing
east or west.

On the globe, on the ground, the 40th parallel is curved.

Find a globe, or load Google Earth, and view it with the
40th parallel closest to you. It looks like Amazon's logo.

Of course a great circle on a sphere is the longest circle
that can be drawn on the sphere.

But your concept is like comparing the length of London's
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M25_motorway>
to the length of the equator.

On 11/11/23 12:26 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 2:30 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 3:22 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>>>     https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>>>
>>> Science !
>>
>> (Some flotation required)
>
> You know, that could be an old Amphicar that Frank is driving.
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphicar
>
> Lynn
>

Nah! I‘ve seen Amphicars in real life. The screws are blatantly obvious
at this angle as the grille of an Edsel is from dead front.

--
John W. Kennedy
Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 17:13:35 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 18 November 2023 at 16:46:48 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Nov 2023 08:38:29 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, 13 November 2023 at 17:26:14 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:02:02 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
>> >> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 16:48:41 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:36:29 -0500, Mark Jackson
>> >> >> <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On 11/11/2023 12:19 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:22:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>> >> >> >> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> “Frank and Ernest”: Take the Long Way Home
>> >> >> >>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Science !
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Any idea at what latitude the Earth would be 24,901 miles around?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Or at what angle the path would have to be tilted?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Or both?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >According to https://www.space.com/17638-how-big-is-earth.html
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"The equatorial circumference of Earth is 24,901 miles (40,075 km).
>> >> >> >However, from the North Pole to the South Pole, the so-called meridional
>> >> >> >circumference is smaller, at 24,860 miles (40,008 km). That reveals that
>> >> >> >our planet is flattened at the poles, meaning its shape is an oblate
>> >> >> >spheroid."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >That suggests that the equitorial great circle is maximal, and those at
>> >> >> >an angle would be smaller. Of course once one is talking about road
>> >> >> >miles the circumnavigation distance will be significantly larger.
>> >> >> Thanks for the information.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So, "Frank and Ernest" is set ... on the Equator.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I would expect traveling along, say, the 40th parallel would be a
>> >> >> shorter trip.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ignoring the road miles correction, about which you are correct.
>> >> >
>> >> >On the contrary, you are comparing a road lying
>> >> >along the 40th parallel to a road along a "great circle",
>> >> >with the latter as the shortest surface route between
>> >> >two points on it. If Earth was a sphere, which it
>> >> >isn't quite.
>> >> I think you are deceiving yourself.
>> >>
>> >> I am talking about the length of the 40th parallel as it circles (so
>> >> to speak) the globe. It clearly has a smaller radius than the equator
>> >> does, and so a smaller circumference.
>> >>
>> >> You are talking about the difference between a route that looks like a
>> >> straight line on a flat map and a great circle.
>> >>
>> >> The great circle is shorter because the flat map does not accurately
>> >> reflect the actual distances shown or even the relative positions of
>> >> the start and end points. Well, unless it looks like a squashed orange
>> >> peel and you are very careful how you use it, perhaps.
>> >>
>> >> Or, to put it in terms that are endlessly useful, and not just in this
>> >> context:
>> >>
>> >> The map is /not/ the terrain.
>> >
>> >I can't tell if we're agreeing or disagreeing.
>> >
>> >A great circle is the shortest route on the surface
>> >of the globe, which is more-or-less a sphere.
>> >A road on the 40th parallel is a curved road.
>> >
>> >From the 40th parallel point on the Greenwich
>> >0 degrees meridian, to the point on the 40th
>> >parallel and the 180 degrees meridian, the
>> >shortest surface route is across the pole.
>> >The longest route is... across the other pole.
>> We are talking about two different things.
>>
>> Or do you /really/ think that the distance from the Prime Meridian has
>> /any/ relevance to the situation in the cartoon?
>>
>> Which, from above, is:
>> >> >> >>> https://www.gocomics.com/frank-and-ernest/2023/11/09
>>
>> I am talking about the distance around the Earth at, say, 40 degrees
>> north versus the distance around the Earth at the Equator.
>>
>> You are talking about ... something else entirely.
>
>I'm talking about going from point A to point B
>in a "straight line" when A and B are at 40 degrees
>north. Of course, the "straight line" must fall on
>the curved surface of the Earth, but it does not
>follow the "parallel" contour if the points are a
>significant distance apart. I described an example
>where the shortest route goes across the North Pole.
>
>At point A, facing towards point B does not mean facing
>east or west.
>
>On the globe, on the ground, the 40th parallel is curved.
>
>Find a globe, or load Google Earth, and view it with the
>40th parallel closest to you. It looks like Amazon's logo.
>
>Of course a great circle on a sphere is the longest circle
>that can be drawn on the sphere.
>
>But your concept is like comparing the length of London's
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M25_motorway>
>to the length of the equator.

I was going to respond, but it occurred to me that we are, indeed,
talking about different things, so what's the point?
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"