At https://theconversation.com/italys-far-right-claim-the-lord-of-the-rings-but-theyve-misread-tolkiens-message-218148

From "the fact that the salvation of the world is brought about not by force of arms, but by the dogged persistence and fierce love of the small and powerless, by pity for the pitiless and mercy upon the merciless" I deduce that Sting, Anduril, and Glamdring might as well have been left in their respective Mathom houses, store rooms, or whatever.

On 22/11/2023 11.36, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> At https://theconversation.com/italys-far-right-claim-the-lord-of-the-rings-but-theyve-misread-tolkiens-message-218148
>
> From "the fact that the salvation of the world is brought about not by force of arms, but by the dogged persistence and fierce love of the small and powerless, by pity for the pitiless and mercy upon the merciless" I deduce that Sting, Anduril, and Glamdring might as well have been left in their respective Mathom houses, store rooms, or whatever.

Pretty much, yeah.

How was victory over Sauron attained? By the destruction of the One
Ring. Which of those weapons destroyed the One Ring? None of them.
The One Ring was destroyed by Gollum, who bit it off of Frodo's
hand in the bowels of Orodruin.

BOOK ONE, Chapter II:

'[...] What a pity that Bilbo did not stab that vile creature,
when he had the chance?'

'Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy:
not to strike without need. [...]'

The above should be adequate to show that swords wouldn't be
the solution to the problem of Sauron. But, there's more:

BOOK TWO, Chapter II:

'Fruitless did I call the victory of the Last Alliance? Not
wholly so, yet it did not achieve its end. Sauron was
diminished, but not destroyed. His Ring was lost but not
unmade. The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were
not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring,
and while it remains they will endure.'

Here, Elrond says clearly that victory at arms is only a
temporary relief. Destruction of the Ring is necessary for
a permanent solution.

Later in the same chapter:

'Then, if the Ring cannot be kept from him for ever by
strength,' said Glorfindel, 'two things only remain for us
to attempt: to send it over the Sea, or to destroy it.'

Strength would only provide another stop-gap.

BOOK TWO, Chapter III:

The Company took little gear of war, for their hope was in
secrecy, not battle. [...]

BOOK SIX, Chapter III:

Frodo looked again towards the Mountain. 'No,' he said,
'we shan't need much on that road. And at its end nothing.'
Picking up his orc-shield he flung it away and threw his
helmet after it. Then pulling off the grey cloak he undid
the heavy belt and let it fall to the ground, and the
sheathed sword with it. The shreds of the black cloak he
tore off and scattered.

Note that the sword discarded by Frodo was not Sting, which Sam
was bearing. Sam used it in his fight with Gollum, to keep him
away from Frodo. This, of course, didn't work, fortunately for
all of the free peoples of Middle Earth.

These passages were what I could locate in twenty minutes'
scanning of the text. I'm fairly certain that there are more.

--
Michael F. Stemper
The FAQ for rec.arts.sf.written is at
<http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm>
Please read it before posting.

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 7:23:58 PM UTC, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 22/11/2023 11.36, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> > At https://theconversation.com/italys-far-right-claim-the-lord-of-the-rings-but-theyve-misread-tolkiens-message-218148
> >
> > From "the fact that the salvation of the world is brought about not by force of arms, but by the dogged persistence and fierce love of the small and powerless, by pity for the pitiless and mercy upon the merciless" I deduce that Sting, Anduril, and Glamdring might as well have been left in their respective Mathom houses, store rooms, or whatever.
> Pretty much, yeah.
>
> How was victory over Sauron attained? By the destruction of the One
> Ring. Which of those weapons destroyed the One Ring? None of them.
> The One Ring was destroyed by Gollum, who bit it off of Frodo's
> hand in the bowels of Orodruin.
>
> BOOK ONE, Chapter II:
>
> '[...] What a pity that Bilbo did not stab that vile creature,
> when he had the chance?'
>
> 'Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy:
> not to strike without need. [...]'
>
> The above should be adequate to show that swords wouldn't be
> the solution to the problem of Sauron. But, there's more:
>
> BOOK TWO, Chapter II:
>
> 'Fruitless did I call the victory of the Last Alliance? Not
> wholly so, yet it did not achieve its end. Sauron was
> diminished, but not destroyed. His Ring was lost but not
> unmade. The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were
> not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring,
> and while it remains they will endure.'
>
> Here, Elrond says clearly that victory at arms is only a
> temporary relief. Destruction of the Ring is necessary for
> a permanent solution.
>
> Later in the same chapter:
>
> 'Then, if the Ring cannot be kept from him for ever by
> strength,' said Glorfindel, 'two things only remain for us
> to attempt: to send it over the Sea, or to destroy it.'
>
> Strength would only provide another stop-gap.
>
> BOOK TWO, Chapter III:
>
> The Company took little gear of war, for their hope was in
> secrecy, not battle. [...]
>
> BOOK SIX, Chapter III:
>
> Frodo looked again towards the Mountain. 'No,' he said,
> 'we shan't need much on that road. And at its end nothing.'
> Picking up his orc-shield he flung it away and threw his
> helmet after it. Then pulling off the grey cloak he undid
> the heavy belt and let it fall to the ground, and the
> sheathed sword with it. The shreds of the black cloak he
> tore off and scattered.
>
> Note that the sword discarded by Frodo was not Sting, which Sam
> was bearing. Sam used it in his fight with Gollum, to keep him
> away from Frodo. This, of course, didn't work, fortunately for
> all of the free peoples of Middle Earth.
>
> These passages were what I could locate in twenty minutes'
> scanning of the text. I'm fairly certain that there are more.
>
> --
> Michael F. Stemper
> The FAQ for rec.arts.sf.written is at
> <http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm>
> Please read it before posting.
Anduril is used to strike down the Orc that attempts to skewer Frodo at the beginning of their passage through Moria (Sam kills an Orc there as well, with a barrow-blade). I presume that it is Anduril that Aragorn uses to strike down countless other enemies from then on. Sam drives off Shelob with Sting. Glamdring is used to break the Balrog's sword in Moria. Armed force may not be sufficient, but it is necessary. The fellowship of the ring need to defend themselves on many occasions, and in "The Last Debate" Gandalf states that the apparently pointless attack of the forces of the West on Mordor is necessary to draw as much as possible of Sauron's forces and attention from Mordor. The fellowship are not pilgrims, but raiders.