Joel wrote:

> I have to admit, while I would never give Adobe my money, it is
> frustrating using Paint, Paint 3D and GIMP, they just don't make it
> easy to do things that ought to be very straightforward. I can't and
> won't support Photoshop, but it might make my life easier.

Hi Joel,

I've tried _every_ known free screenshot editor ever suggested on the
Windows and Linux newsgroups over the past two decades on Usenet.

Hence, the difference between me and those iKooks you're "conversing" with,
is I know what I'm talking about - and - to your point - I agree with your
statements above about the lack of "ease of use" of those specific apps.

But there _is_ a better app (for ease of use & for functionality) than
those apps, at least on Windows there is... with a caveat (net.framework).

While I don't like installing net framework any more than anyone else, if
you want a free Windows Photoshop replacement app that it both _easy_ and
quite functional (in terms of what you do most), you can't beat this app.
<https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases> current version 5.03

Bear in mind another caveat is Microsoft would wish that Paint.NET would go
away but it won't (because it's too good) so even though Microsoft _sells_
it on their App Store, it's still free if you know where to get it from.

Note you can also get an older version of Photoshop for free, which we've
discussed umpteen times over the years, but if you need it, I'll point you
to the serials which are published and NOT REFUTED by Adobe (for years!).
(caveats apply - but let's not go there until/unless you want it)

The difference between the iKooks and me is I know what I'm talking about.
They simply lie (why should they know anything when they can just lie).
--
Note that Microsoft would love for you to replace Paint.NET with Pinta
but last I checked, Pinta wasn't even close to what Paint.NET does for you.

Paint.NET released version 4.3.11 on May 25, 2022
{https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases}

Microsoft sells it for $7.99 in the Microsoft Store.
{https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/paintnet/9NBHCS1LX4R0}

In article <u0as5l$2of99$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli
<nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

> Note you can also get an older version of Photoshop for free,

not legally.

> which we've
> discussed umpteen times over the years, but if you need it, I'll point you
> to the serials which are published and NOT REFUTED by Adobe (for years!).
> (caveats apply - but let's not go there until/unless you want it)

adobe has indeed refuted it.

the serial numbers are only for *existing* *customers* who need to
reinstall it, since the activation servers have been taken offline and
their actual serial numbers will no longer work.

not that it matters since it's nearly 20 years old and won't run on
anything made in at least the last decade. those who are still using it
are using *very* outdated hardware (i.e., slow).

> The difference between the iKooks and me is I know what I'm talking about.

you have that backwards.

nospam wrote:

> the serial numbers are only for *existing* *customers* who need to
> reinstall it, since the activation servers have been taken offline and
> their actual serial numbers will no longer work.

The difference between you and me, nospam, is everything you do is
purposefully unhelpful and I am trying to help the guy, unlike you.

Here, for example, is what I was talking about, with the caveats:
<https://www.techspot.com/downloads/3689-adobe-photoshop-cs2.html>

And here, for example, is a great (IMHO) free PhotoShop replacement:
<https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/121643-paintnet-50-is-now-available/>

You were completely oblivious of all that, nospam, because you simply lie
all the time so you feel you don't need to know anything whatsoever.

Why should an iKook look anything up when he can just lie about it?

> not that it matters since it's nearly 20 years old and won't run on
> anything made in at least the last decade. those who are still using it
> are using *very* outdated hardware (i.e., slow).

Why must you lie all the time nospam?
Seriously.

What is wrong with you?
Do you think I don't have it myself?

What's wrong with you that you feel you must lie about everything, nospam?

At least I provided him a solution to the problem he stated which was the
current programs he was using were more difficult than they needed to be.
<https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/122276-paintnet-503-is-now-available/>

You provided nothing but your constant purposefully unhelpful lies, nospam.

>> The difference between the iKooks and me is I know what I'm talking about.
>
> you have that backwards.

You low IQ ignorant uneducated iKooks always respond as if you're a child.

It's clear I helpfully provided Joel with a viable solution for Windows
which is free & which does most of which most people need it to do.
<https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases>

You purposefully unhelpfully provided nothing for anyone but lies, nospam.

I not only helpfully provided a working current solution to him...
But I am using that solution myself as we speak (as I'm not like you).
<https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/download/v5.0.3/paint.net.5.0.3.portable.arm64.zip>
Name: paint.net.5.0.3.portable.x64.zip
Size: 91282350 bytes (87 MiB)
SHA256: 4B5384BBD2C41525A27F1CFDC66526852754DCF680CF2ABF8916B88A944E77D4

<https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/download/v5.0.3/paint.net.5.0.3.winmsi.x64.zip>
Name: paint.net.5.0.3.winmsi.x64.zip
Size: 73082211 bytes (69 MiB)
SHA256: FBA5DBE88C4791A37B10587A7F93520FAEB4C3594960F1B5A1088441F6121756

That zip contains this one file:
Name: paint.net.5.0.3.winmsi.x64.msi
Size: 73469952 bytes (70 MiB)
SHA256: 20AAF754A65C544029E5DA76024275CB16C9189157EBAFC6FDE32C31C7C9DC16

Those links are helpful because there are _many_ links out there that
do NOT get you to the free stuff (which is Microsoft's doing mostly).

While I'm being helpful, all you iKooks care to do is lie, nospam.

For example, you've never been a developer - you simply lie about it.
You've never used any of these tools either - you simply lie all the time.

Your odious unhelpful attitude is why you're an unprepossing human, nospam.

This is you...
<https://img.yumpu.com/6936343/1/500x640/standouts-the-beat-within.jpg>

Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

>But there _is_ a better app (for ease of use & for functionality) than
>those apps, at least on Windows there is... with a caveat (net.framework).
>
>While I don't like installing net framework any more than anyone else, if
>you want a free Windows Photoshop replacement app that it both _easy_ and
>quite functional (in terms of what you do most), you can't beat this app.
> <https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases> current version 5.03

Many thanks, I didn't know about this app, I have installed it, and
will give it a try next time I need an image editor.

--
Joel Crump

Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:
>nospam wrote:
>
>> the serial numbers are only for *existing* *customers* who need to
>> reinstall it, since the activation servers have been taken offline and
>> their actual serial numbers will no longer work.
>
>The difference between you and me, nospam, is everything you do is
>purposefully unhelpful and I am trying to help the guy, unlike you.
>
>Here, for example, is what I was talking about, with the caveats:
> <https://www.techspot.com/downloads/3689-adobe-photoshop-cs2.html>

Intriguing, in the abstract, but I'm running the current build of
Win11, so even if it were legit for me to use that old version for
free, which I kind of doubt, it probably wouldn't work. Also, even
for free, I don't think I could bring myself to use Adobe's shit. I
do have Acrobat Reader on my phone, but nothing by them on my desktop.

--
Joel Crump

In article <u0b2mr$2p5os$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli
<nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> > the serial numbers are only for *existing* *customers* who need to
> > reinstall it, since the activation servers have been taken offline and
> > their actual serial numbers will no longer work.
>
> The difference between you and me, nospam, is everything you do is
> purposefully unhelpful and I am trying to help the guy, unlike you.

no, the difference is that you're full of shit.

> Here, for example, is what I was talking about, with the caveats:
> <https://www.techspot.com/downloads/3689-adobe-photoshop-cs2.html>

that doesn't say what you think it does, plus it's not an official
adobe statement.

it does say that *photoshop* *express* is free, which is *not* the same
as the full photoshop, nor is it the same as photoshop elements, which
is the consumer version of photoshop at an inexpensive price (it omits
prepress and other high end features that consumers don't need).

this *is* an official adobe statement regarding cs2:
<https://web.archive.org/web/20130511014535/http://blogs.adobe.com/conve
rsations/2013/01/update-on-cs2-and-acrobat-7-activation-servers.html>
POSTED BY ADOBE CORPORATE COMMUNICATIONS ON JANUARY 7, 2013
4:05 PM IN CREATIVES, DIGITAL MEDIA

Adobe has disabled the activation server for CS2 products, including
Acrobat 7, because of a technical issue. These products were released
more than seven years ago, do not run on many modern operating
systems, and are no longer supported.

Adobe strongly advises against running unsupported and outdated
software. The serial numbers provided as a part of the download may
only be used by customers who legitimately purchased CS2 or Acrobat 7
and need to maintain their current use of these products.

note the last sentence:
The serial numbers provided as a part of the download may only be
used by customers who legitimately purchased CS2 or Acrobat 7 and
need to maintain their current use of these products.

in case you missed it the first two times:
...may only be used by customers who legitimately purchased CS2 or
Acrobat 7...

cs2 was released in 2005, nearly 20 years ago, before windows 7 was
released and before the mac-intel transition. it does not work *at*
*all* on any current or recent system, so even if you do pirate it,
it's not going to be of any use.

Joel wrote:

>>Here, for example, is what I was talking about, with the caveats:
>> <https://www.techspot.com/downloads/3689-adobe-photoshop-cs2.html>
>
> Intriguing, in the abstract, but I'm running the current build of
> Win11, so even if it were legit for me to use that old version for
> free, which I kind of doubt, it probably wouldn't work.

Hi Joel,
All I care for is to learn from you and to be purposefully helpful
(and, if an iKook is involved, to show them for exactly what they are).

In that vein, I can't disagree with a single one of your expressed
sentiments; so all I can realistically tell you is I test almost all the
suggestions on any newsgroup for "free" editing programs. It's what I do.

At the time that techspot page came to my attention, I completely and fully
tested that entire suite of Adobe tools (which contain far more than just
PhotoShop, by the way), and _all_ of them worked just fine for me.

My desktop is Windows 10 though, as I haven't bothered to upgrade to
Windows 11 (for a variety of reasons, one of which is there is no
compelling reason to do so - but the others are in terms of hardware).

Personally, I only tested those tools, because I wanted to see if the links
and serial numbers worked - and they certainly do work - which is all I can
say (see nospam's claim that all the evil on the planet will befall you).

> Also, even
> for free, I don't think I could bring myself to use Adobe's shit.

I've been on to Adobe ever since I promoted the PDF format at my company
decades ago, where, interestingly, the IT personnel qt the time told me
"We're not going to support yet another format", which is funny when you
think of it since I was the first person to explain to them what PDF was.

Since I'm all about cross-platform portability, I initially set up
Distiller mount points, where anyone could drop a file into that and the
Adobe Distiller daemon would convert it to a postscript and then PDF (this
was decades ago, so I haven't touched it since).

I used the Columbia Appletalk Protocol (CAP) and Samba and CIFS/SMB to link
all our marketing, management and technical people (macintosh, windows,
sunos/solaris) to my cross platform dropoff points, and that's when I
learned everything that is easy on Linux is harder on Windows and more so
vastly more difficult (for no good reason) on Apple platforms. Sigh. :)

> I do have Acrobat Reader on my phone, but nothing by them on my desktop.

If that reader keeps updating, you may wish to try this registry hack:
<https://www.raymond.cc/blog/quickly-check-change-critical-software-auto-update-status/>
<https://raymondcc.r.worldssl.net/Adobe_Reader_DC_Updates.zip>
Name: Adobe_Reader_DC_Updates.zip
Size: 753 bytes
SHA256: 944AA260474E16392D03AA4ACB4FBDC83ED293CE4B3B5A222EC4897B0ECA8027
The zip extracts to these two files:
Adobe_Reader_DC_Disable_Updates.reg
Adobe_Reader_DC_Enable_Updates.reg

BTW, while I don't use the reader (as I own the writer), I have dutifully
researched _every_ use of PDF long ago on the Windows newsgroup, where this
is an _old_ description of how to replace all the necessary PDF
functionality you could possibly want to achieve with free non-Adobe
functionality - but I haven't updated this PDF-tools chart in years.

General purpose PDF editing summary of use to all Windows users:
[x] Fast PDF reader: (Sumatra PDF)
[x] Archive sites (wkhtmltopdf, Acrobat payware)
[x] Add or concatonate pages (pdftk, acrobat payware)
[x] Remove pages (pdfsam, pdftk)
[x] Rotate pages (Acrobat Reader)
[x] Renumber pages (Acrobat Reader)
[x] Remove restrictions (Ghostscript/Ghostview)
[x] Merge PDFs (pdfsam, pdftk)
[x] Extract images (PDF Exchange Viewer, PDF Shaper)
[x] Reorder pages (mutool)
?[x] Edit PDF existing text (Acrobat commenting, Acrobat payware)
[x] Print sans username in the properties (Libre Office Writer)
[_] Print book format PDF (FinePrint payware)
[x] Tile PDFs (i.e., to print large posters) (Posterazor)
[x] Create PDF new text (Irfanview or Paint.NET plugins + Ghostscript)

Suffice to say I've _tested_ every free suggested software listed on the
windows and pdf newsgroups for what products freely replace Adobe tools.

At this point, the _only_ thing I use Adobe Acrobat (the writer, not the
reader) for nowadays is to shrink PDFs and to capture an entire web site in
a cross-linked single PDF document (which there are other ways to do, but
I'm just so used to my vi-like finger memory of control-shift-O in Acrobat
that it's just easier to use the payware Acrobat to create PDFs of
an entire web site - or various levels of it).

I once tried, oh, about in the early 90's, to create a PDF of almost the
entire Internet, but it was impossible even then, due to crunching needs.

About the only thing you need to do with a PDF that is not available in
Windows freeware, as far as I know, is the book-printing capability
that the $25 (at that time) FinePrint did, which I used thousands of times.

Nowadays, I'm rarely on Centos/Ubuntu, so I'm mostly up to speed on Windows
desktops, so if you need any tool recommendations for editing tools or PDF
modification tools that are _always_ going to be free, ask me if you like.

I do want to repeat for effect that Paint.NET (despite requiring
.NET_Framework - which I dislike), is by far the best free photoshop
replacement for typical tasks - as it's extremely easy to use and it's well
updated and maintained, even as Microsoft would love to sell it to you.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully flesh out PDF & Photoshop tools.

--
このメールは、アバスト アンチウイルス ソフトウェアでウイルス チェックされています。
www.avast.com

Andy Burnelli wrote:

>> I do have Acrobat Reader on my phone, but nothing by them on my desktop.
>
> If that reader keeps updating, you may wish to try this registry hack:
> <https://www.raymond.cc/blog/quickly-check-change-critical-software-auto-update-status/>
> <https://raymondcc.r.worldssl.net/Adobe_Reader_DC_Updates.zip>

Oooops. I just noticed, my mistake, that you mentioned it was on the phone.
On the phone I don't do PDFs, so let me see what I have on the phone...

Oh, OK. I see "Adobe Acrobat" in my files folder, where it's grayed out,
which simply means I haven't used it since I received my new free Galaxy.

To better explain that, as you can imagine I highly organize my phone
(which is impossible to do on iOS so obviously my daily drive is Android).

I use the nova free launcher (the last known good version, actually), which
allows me to export the homescreen and then import that backup to another
device (another thing iOS can't do, by the way), such that _all_ the app
icons are in _exactly_ the same place on the new phone as they were on the
old phone.

As an aside, it's the same with Windows as I've used my original Windows XP
pull-out cascade accordion menus on all subsequent Windows, even Win10.
<https://i.postimg.cc/j5K0RL7H/taskbarmenu01.jpg> WinXP menu copied to Win10

Where you'll notice that I have the reader and the writer, where I bought
the writer before there even was a reader, and I've used it ever since.
<https://i.postimg.cc/qvJDMQcq/taskbarmenu02.jpg> Menus are just folders

Then, if desired I extract all the APKs off the old phone (Android never
deletes them, by the way - so they're _always_ there!), which is not even
well known among Android owners - and of course - impossible with iOS.

While Android always saves the APK by default, I prefer to save _every_
version of every APK ever installed, so I set that in my Google Play Store
client to NOT DELETE the APKs once they're downloaded from Google Play.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ry1DK5cL/apk12.jpg> Save APKs when installing apps
That way, I have _thousands_ of my old APKs on my Windows drives for re-use
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zBjX5kJ/aurora09.jpg> Keep APK after installing

I extract them directly to Windows (because the entire Android phone is a
simple mount point on Windows anyway) and then when I plug in a new phone.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hjkVFyqJ/scrcpy07.jpg> Android mnt as drive letter

I simply _slide_ them over to the new phone to install them instantly.
<https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg> Drag APK over to install
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to correct my mistake about Adobe Acrobat Reader.

Joel wrote:

>> While I don't like installing net framework any more than anyone else, if
>> you want a free Windows Photoshop replacement app that it both _easy_ and
>> quite functional (in terms of what you do most), you can't beat this app.
>> <https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases> current version 5.03
>
> Many thanks, I didn't know about this app, I have installed it, and
> will give it a try next time I need an image editor.

Hi Joel,

Wow. I'm impressed. You actually installed the free Photoshop replacement!
<https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases> current version 5.03

As an aside, I see Microsoft upped the price of that _free_ Photoshop
replacement from $8 (last I had checked) to $10 (which is kind of funny).
<https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/paintnet/9NBHCS1LX4R0>

Most people (a) don't install any of the suggested apps (usually because
they're scared) & (b) don't follow up with the lurkers so that all benefit.
<https://www.techspot.com/downloads/3689-adobe-photoshop-cs2.html>

Many thanks to you for owning & displaying courteous Usenet manners.
<https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/121643-paintnet-50-is-now-available/>

While I have installed _every_ free image/photo editor ever suggested on
the Windows and digital photo newsgroups (which I've been on for decades),
I mostly use a combination of two tools, on Windows, for managing photos,
where you'll note that Irfanview is always the first program to use because
of its speed & versatility, particularly of Irfanview batch commands, and
it's ability to easily crop, resize, and (with the Paint plugin) angle.

That free Photoshop replacement tool, Paint.NET, has been around for
decades, so it too has plenty of plugins, but I don't normally use them.

The _three_ things most image editors make too hard though, are the three
things that Paint.NET gets right, which makes it the go-to tool for them.
1. Crop and size the screenshot
2. Text the screenshot (with and without underlying white space)
3. Easily circle and arrow as needed to highlight sections

Bearing in mind _every_ image/photo editor can list those features, what
this free Photoshop replacement tools does that is different is it makes
those tasks (and many others) super easy to do - which is what matters.

Try, for example, those three things in Irfanview, and while the
"automatic" cropping in Irfanview (control+y and control+shift+y) is
stellar, the constrained (pick a certain point to start & end) is not.

The texting and arrowing and circling in Irfanvew (or The GIMP for that
matter), is literally atrocious compared to how easy it is to do those
common things in the Photoshop freeware that I had pointed you to today.

Please do let the rest of us know how it goes for you, whether good or bad,
because what I care about it to learn from others, and to help others, and,
when an Apple newsgroup is involved, to show the iKooks for what they are.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to thank Joel for testing out Paint.NET freeware.

--
このメールは、アバスト アンチウイルス ソフトウェアでウイルス チェックされています。
www.avast.com

Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:
>Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>[Joel Crump wrote:]
>>
>>> I do have Acrobat Reader on my phone, but nothing by them on my desktop.
>>
>> If that reader keeps updating, you may wish to try this registry hack:
>> <https://www.raymond.cc/blog/quickly-check-change-critical-software-auto-update-status/>
>> <https://raymondcc.r.worldssl.net/Adobe_Reader_DC_Updates.zip>
>
>Oooops. I just noticed, my mistake, that you mentioned it was on the phone.
>On the phone I don't do PDFs, so let me see what I have on the phone...
>
>Oh, OK. I see "Adobe Acrobat" in my files folder, where it's grayed out,
>which simply means I haven't used it since I received my new free Galaxy.
>
>To better explain that, as you can imagine I highly organize my phone
>(which is impossible to do on iOS so obviously my daily drive is Android).

Yeah, as far as the Android app for merely viewing a bus schedule or
whatever, I can handle using something from Adobe. But for Windows,
Sumatra PDF is far preferable.

--
Joel Crump

In article <gopj2i1odrv17si0763h0aibk7afhngvcc@4ax.com>, Joel
<joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, as far as the Android app for merely viewing a bus schedule or
> whatever, I can handle using something from Adobe. But for Windows,
> Sumatra PDF is far preferable.

on mac/ios, pdf is a native format. no additional apps required.

third party apps can add pdf support with couple of lines of code.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> Yeah, as far as the Android app for merely viewing a bus schedule or
>> whatever, I can handle using something from Adobe. But for Windows,
>> Sumatra PDF is far preferable.
>
>on mac/ios, pdf is a native format. no additional apps required.

Good point. And if I'm not mistaken, has been for a really long time.

>third party apps can add pdf support with couple of lines of code.

Indeed, score one for Apple.

--
Joel Crump

In article <dbrj2i1tnt2ee7id27utessith8hjeda54@4ax.com>, Joel
<joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> >> Yeah, as far as the Android app for merely viewing a bus schedule or
> >> whatever, I can handle using something from Adobe. But for Windows,
> >> Sumatra PDF is far preferable.
> >
> >on mac/ios, pdf is a native format. no additional apps required.
>
>
> Good point. And if I'm not mistaken, has been for a really long time.

it goes back to the beginning of mac ox, which was 2000 (for the public
beta) and a couple of years prior as it was being developed internal to
apple.

mac os x is based on nextstep/openstep, released in 1989, which used
display postscript for its imaging model.

apple switched to pdf due to licensing issues for dps and that pdf is a
much better choice going forward.

> >third party apps can add pdf support with couple of lines of code.
>
>
> Indeed, score one for Apple.

there's not much for apple to do. with pdf being a native format, it's
essentially like opening a text file. tiff, png and jpeg are also a
couple of lines of code.

nospam wrote:

> torrenting is very possible on ios, however, there's no demand for it.

If we assume you are telling us the truth, for once, nospam.... then...

Please...

*Point all of us, nospam, to that bittorrent app on the iOS App Store*.

In article <u0fm12$3d0c3$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli
<nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> > torrenting is very possible on ios, however, there's no demand for it.
>
> If we assume you are telling us the truth, for once, nospam.... then...
>
> Please...
>
> *Point all of us, nospam, to that bittorrent app on the iOS App Store*.

read it again, this time for comprehension.