On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 07:32:24 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/12/2022 21:00, D.J. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:16:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 04/12/2022 03:22, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fukushima did kill workers trying to contain the radiation. And I
>>>>>>>>>> haven't seen any claim that Chernobyl killed that many.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Initially, the Soviet Union's toll of deaths directly caused by the
>>>>>>>>> Chernobyl disaster included only the two Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant
>>>>>>>>> workers killed in the immediate aftermath of the explosion of the
>>>>>>>>> plant's reactor. However, by late 1986, Soviet officials updated the
>>>>>>>>> official count to 30, reflecting the deaths of 28 additional plant
>>>>>>>>> workers and first responders in the months after the accident. In the
>>>>>>>>> decades since the accident, many former Soviet officials and some
>>>>>>>>> Western sources had also determined a total of 30 direct casualties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course, that’s if you believe numbers provided by the Soviets/Russians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The deaths are bad and all but:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Experts have said it will be at least 3,000 years for the area to become
>>>>>>> safe, while others believe this is too optimistic. It is thought that
>>>>>>> the reactor site will not become habitable again for at least 20,000
>>>>>>> years, according to a 2016 report.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The exclusion zone is 1000 square miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, wildlife seems to be thriving there
>>>>>
>>>>> At the same time, wildlife spreads the radiation.
>>>>
>>>> ROFLMAO!
>>>
>>> Actually, yes they can. Eating seeds and small insects, the birds eat
>>> those. And the other animals root around in the ground, there are wild
>>> pigs there, and the radioactive dust is blown around by the wind.
>>
>> Wow! Such a touching narrative. It's almost 'Watership Down' in its
>> mawkishness.
>>
>> And as fictional.
>>
>> A short course of self education on bioactivity, and the composition of
>> the actual fallout would be indicated here, I feel,
>>
>> Almost no radioactive elements that have half lives long enough to still
>> be there, are bioactive, and likely to be present in organic material.
>>
>> If you recall the panic over fallout in the 1960s, the worries were all
>> about caesium 137 and strontium 90. Because these were reasonably long
>> half lives, and were calcium analogues, so very likely to be
>> incorporated in e.g, bones.
>>
>> Caesium 137 has a half life of 30 years, Strontium 90 has a 28 year half
>> life. Effectively harmless in 300 years, and not a huge by product of
>> nuclear reactions, but still, not nice.
>>
>> There is still a lot in the world today from the nuclear tests, but
>> there is more natural radon from uranium decay, and natural potassium
>> 40 which has a half life of 1,251 billion years and represents most of
>> the radioactivity of a human being Along with Carbon 14 from cosmic ray
>> impacts.
>
>Enough that scientists harvest steel from German U-Boats sunk in “Operation
>Deadlight” before Hiroshima, because all steel today is slightly
>radioactive and unusable for some purposes.

Same with ships sunk in the Pacific before the atomic tests at Bikini
Atoll.
--
Jim

On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 16:00:22 -0600, "NightBulb.net"
<nospam@nightbulb.net> wrote:
>On 12/4/22 15:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2022-12-04, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 20:08:06 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Experts have said it will be at least 3,000 years for the area to become
>>>> safe, while others believe this is too optimistic. It is thought that
>>>> the reactor site will not become habitable again for at least 20,000
>>>> years, according to a 2016 report.
>>>
>>>> The exclusion zone is 1000 square miles.
>>>
>>> And yet Putin statoioned troops there. I guess he doesn't care about
>>> them.
>>
>> Is there anyone he _does_ care about? (Aside from himself, of course.)
>
>Perhaps he cares about 150 million Russians that he doesn't want turned
>into vassal serfs to NATO? I find it slightly doubtful but not
>impossible that Putin might have some sense of loyalty to his own
>country. He might be under the delusional impression that Russia is a
>sovereign country that has the right to protect itself from hostile
>encirclement.

Nonsense.

Imagine if any leader of Russia cared, actuallly cared, about anyone.
What they do is use the russian people for political purposes.

--
Jim

On 05/12/2022 14:32, Peter Flass wrote:

> Here’s a thought - he could have tried being a good neighbor, not
> threatening to cut off oil shipments or not trying to prop up a corrupt
> dictator. He could have gotten everything he wanted by being a friend
> instead of a bully.
>
I once worked for one psychopath (I seem to attract them) who went
around being extremely unpleasant to everybody. I asked his business
partner why he did this.
"Dick has a problem with people: He doesn't know whether they like him
or not, but by being an arsehole, he *knows* they don't like him, and he
can deal with that. It's simpler"

Psychopaths don't do friendship. It simply is as alien a concept as
color is to a blind man

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 16:00:22 -0600, "NightBulb.net"
><nospam@nightbulb.net> wrote:

>Nonsense.
>
>Imagine if any leader of Russia cared, actuallly cared, about anyone.
>What they do is use the russian people for political purposes.

You're responding to a russian troll. Best to just ignore it.

On 12/5/2022 8:32 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
>> On 05/12/2022 11:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 04/12/2022 22:50, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> Russia had a chance to become a contributing member of the society of
>>>> nations and blew it, badly. Until Putin came along I saw an
>>>> opportunity for
>>>> them to work with us in a variety of areas, such as containing China, or
>>>> solving the Syria problem. Instead he had fever-dreams of re-creating the
>>>> Russian Empire and needed everyone else to be his enemy. There was no
>>>> “hostile encirclement.” Until Putin started stirring up trouble NATO was
>>>> well on the way to becoming irrelevant. Putin created the hostility
>>>> and the
>>>> encirclement. For a man everyone thought was so smart, he’s certainly
>>>> proven himself to be an idiot. Must be the chemo-brain.
>>>
>>> +10001
>>> We now understand Putin as a functionally  effective psychopath, as was
>>> |Hitler, and many other Glorious Leaders.
>>>
>>> They are all pied piper figures who pipe an entrancing tune designed
>>> specifically to mesmerise their followers over the cliff edge.
>>>
>>
>> Many leaders have a touch of the psychopath, but with respect to
>> Ukraine, I think Putin's actions are more justifiable than Bush/Blair in
>> Afghanistan and Iraq or Obama in Syria and Libya.
>
> Here’s a thought - he could have tried being a good neighbor, not
> threatening to cut off oil shipments or not trying to prop up a corrupt
> dictator. He could have gotten everything he wanted by being a friend
> instead of a bully.
>

No, Putin could *not* get what he wanted by being a good neighbor...
because what Putin wants is the *entire* Ukraine annexed to Russia.
Putin wants to reconstitute the old Soviet Union. Then Putin wants to
take most all of the natural resources of the Ukraine... take it back to
Russia for the Russians to use for themselves.

IMNSHO...

--

Charles Richmond

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 12/5/2022 5:14 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 04/12/2022 21:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2022-12-04, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 20:08:06 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>   Experts have said it will be at least 3,000 years for the area to
>>>> become
>>>>   safe, while others believe this is too optimistic. It is thought that
>>>>   the reactor site will not become habitable again for at least 20,000
>>>>   years, according to a 2016 report.
>>>
>>>> The exclusion zone is 1000 square miles.
>>>
>>> And yet Putin statoioned troops there. I guess he doesn't care about
>>> them.
>>
>> Is there anyone he _does_ care about?  (Aside from himself, of course.)
>>
> No.
> Those of us who have had direct experience of narcissistic and psychotic
> type personality disorders come to understand that in their minds,
> people do not occupy the same status as in ours.
>
> The complete lack of empathy leads as far as I can tell to a world-view
> that is almost cardboard cutout, of shadowy empty figures who can be
> manipulated by lies, but who have no value except in terms of what
> amusement adulation and and entertainment they can offer.
>
> People, to a psychotic, have the same value as pieces on a chess board.
> They are there to be played and sacrificed.
>

Are you talking about Donald Putin or Vladimir Trump???

And please explain how anyone can *negotiate* with a liar. How can
anyone take seriously *anything* that a liar says???

--

Charles Richmond

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 05/12/2022 15:16, D.J. wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 11:47:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/12/2022 21:00, D.J. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:16:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 04/12/2022 03:22, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fukushima did kill workers trying to contain the radiation. And I
>>>>>>>>>> haven't seen any claim that Chernobyl killed that many.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Initially, the Soviet Union's toll of deaths directly caused by the
>>>>>>>>> Chernobyl disaster included only the two Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant
>>>>>>>>> workers killed in the immediate aftermath of the explosion of the
>>>>>>>>> plant's reactor. However, by late 1986, Soviet officials updated the
>>>>>>>>> official count to 30, reflecting the deaths of 28 additional plant
>>>>>>>>> workers and first responders in the months after the accident. In the
>>>>>>>>> decades since the accident, many former Soviet officials and some
>>>>>>>>> Western sources had also determined a total of 30 direct casualties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course, that’s if you believe numbers provided by the Soviets/Russians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The deaths are bad and all but:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Experts have said it will be at least 3,000 years for the area to become
>>>>>>> safe, while others believe this is too optimistic. It is thought that
>>>>>>> the reactor site will not become habitable again for at least 20,000
>>>>>>> years, according to a 2016 report.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The exclusion zone is 1000 square miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, wildlife seems to be thriving there
>>>>>
>>>>> At the same time, wildlife spreads the radiation.
>>>>
>>>> ROFLMAO!
>>>
>>> Actually, yes they can. Eating seeds and small insects, the birds eat
>>> those. And the other animals root around in the ground, there are wild
>>> pigs there, and the radioactive dust is blown around by the wind.
>>
>> Wow! Such a touching narrative. It's almost 'Watership Down' in its
>> mawkishness.
>>
>> And as fictional.
>
> You are the work of fiction.

I can assure you I am real, my knowledge is real, and my facts are accurate.
Far more so than the main stream media.

I've been analysing energy for over a decade.
Not reading about it in commercially sponsored left wing periodicals
for a day or two

> --
> Jim

--
"An intellectual is a person knowledgeable in one field who speaks out
only in others...”

Tom Wolfe

On 05/12/2022 16:55, Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 12/5/2022 5:14 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 04/12/2022 21:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2022-12-04, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 20:08:06 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>   Experts have said it will be at least 3,000 years for the area to
>>>>> become
>>>>>   safe, while others believe this is too optimistic. It is thought
>>>>> that
>>>>>   the reactor site will not become habitable again for at least 20,000
>>>>>   years, according to a 2016 report.
>>>>
>>>>> The exclusion zone is 1000 square miles.
>>>>
>>>> And yet Putin statoioned troops there. I guess he doesn't care about
>>>> them.
>>>
>>> Is there anyone he _does_ care about?  (Aside from himself, of course.)
>>>
>> No.
>> Those of us who have had direct experience of narcissistic and
>> psychotic type personality disorders come to understand that in their
>> minds, people do not occupy the same status as in ours.
>>
>> The complete lack of empathy leads as far as I can tell to a
>> world-view that is almost cardboard cutout, of shadowy empty figures
>> who can be manipulated by lies, but who have no value except in terms
>> of what amusement adulation and and entertainment they can offer.
>>
>> People, to a psychotic, have the same value as pieces on a chess board.
>> They are there to be played and sacrificed.
>>
>
> Are you talking about Donald Putin or Vladimir Trump???
>
> And please explain how anyone can *negotiate* with a liar.  How can
> anyone take seriously *anything* that a liar says???
>
Well I dunno, and yet a lot of people here seem to believe the main
stream media, even though most of the 'news' is reprocessed press
releases spun into a left wing moral narrative to appeal to stupid
voters with no scientific education

Its perfectly possible to negotiate with a psycopath, provided you
recognise that no agreement will be kept, no agreement will last, unless
imposed by a superior force.

BTW Donald Trump is not a psychopath. The Donald is a Loki - a
trickster. His ploy was to engage the Left in such moral outrage about
what he SAID, that they didnt notice what in fact his advisors and
executives actually *did*.

So a reasonable amount of decent legislation got done.

Smart cookie. Bullshit baffles brains, and he was full of it.
Of course to the Left what is done is irrelevant, what matters is that
people believe their bullshit.

So they focussed entirely on the Donald's narrative, which was of course
utter nonsense, and completely missed what his administration *actually
did*.

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 16:40:24 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
>D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 16:00:22 -0600, "NightBulb.net"
>><nospam@nightbulb.net> wrote:
>
>>Nonsense.
>>
>>Imagine if any leader of Russia cared, actuallly cared, about anyone.
>>What they do is use the russian people for political purposes.
>
>You're responding to a russian troll. Best to just ignore it.

There is always hope they can reason, but I'll move on.
--
Jim

On 2022-12-04, NightBulb.net <nospam@nightbulb.net> wrote:

> On 12/4/22 15:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-04, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 20:08:06 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Experts have said it will be at least 3,000 years for the area to become
>>>> safe, while others believe this is too optimistic. It is thought that
>>>> the reactor site will not become habitable again for at least 20,000
>>>> years, according to a 2016 report.
>>>
>>>> The exclusion zone is 1000 square miles.
>>>
>>> And yet Putin statoioned troops there. I guess he doesn't care about
>>> them.
>>
>> Is there anyone he _does_ care about? (Aside from himself, of course.)
>
> Perhaps he cares about 150 million Russians that he doesn't want turned
> into vassal serfs to NATO?

So he can turn them into vassal serfs to himself (if there are any
left by then).

> Big Brother loves you.

And his name is Google.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On 2022-12-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/12/2022 14:32, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Here’s a thought - he could have tried being a good neighbor, not
>> threatening to cut off oil shipments or not trying to prop up a corrupt
>> dictator. He could have gotten everything he wanted by being a friend
>> instead of a bully.
>
> I once worked for one psychopath (I seem to attract them) who went
> around being extremely unpleasant to everybody. I asked his business
> partner why he did this.
> "Dick has a problem with people: He doesn't know whether they like him
> or not, but by being an arsehole, he *knows* they don't like him, and he
> can deal with that. It's simpler"
>
> Psychopaths don't do friendship. It simply is as alien a concept as
> color is to a blind man

Recommended reading:

Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work
Paul Babiak, Ph.D. & Robert D. Hare, Ph.D.
Regan Books, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers
ISBN 10 0-06-0837727-1
ISBN 13 978-0-06-083772-3

The book describes the rich playground for psychopaths that can
be found in a typical office environment, and how they exploit it.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> If you want facts you cant rely on any of it.

Cant indeed.

--
\|/
(((Ï))) – Mr Ön!on
When we shake the ketchup bottle
First none comes and then a lot'll.