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computers / comp.sys.raspberry-pi / Re: Backup power supply

SubjectAuthor
* Backup power supplyAndriy D
+* Re: Backup power supplyMike Scott
|+* Re: Backup power supplyAndriy D
||`- Re: Backup power supplyMike Scott
|`- Re: Backup power supply<bp
+* Backup power supplyVincent Coen
|`* Re: Backup power supplyMike Scott
| `* Backup power supplyVincent Coen
|  +- Re: Backup power supplyAndy Burns
|  `* Re: Backup power supplyAhem A Rivet's Shot
|   +* Re: Backup power supplydruck
|   |`- Re: Backup power supplyAhem A Rivet's Shot
|   +- Backup power supplyVincent Coen
|   `* Re: Backup power supplyThe Natural Philosopher
|    `- Re: Backup power supplyAhem A Rivet's Shot
+* Backup power supplyRichard Falken
|`* Re: Backup power supplyAndriy D
| +* Re: Backup power supplyThe Natural Philosopher
| |`* Re: Backup power supplyAndriy D
| | +* Re: Backup power supplyComputer Nerd Kev
| | |`- Re: Backup power supplyAndriy D
| | `- Re: Backup power supplyJim H
| `- Re: Backup power supplyRichard Falken
`* Re: Backup power supplyJoe
 `* Re: Backup power supplyMike Scott
  +* Re: Backup power supply<bp
  |`* Re: Backup power supplyMike Scott
  | +* Re: Backup power supply<bp
  | |`* Re: Backup power supply<bp
  | | +- Re: Backup power supplyDavid Higton
  | | `* Re: Backup power supplyThe Natural Philosopher
  | |  `- Re: Backup power supply<bp
  | `- Re: Backup power supplyKees Nuyt
  +* Re: Backup power supplyJoe
  |`- Re: Backup power supplyAndriy D
  `- Re: Backup power supplyRichard Falken

Pages:12
Backup power supply

<uss93l$1jcu$1@hugayda.aid.in.ua>

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From: use...@dolik.dev (Andriy D)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Backup power supply
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 13:18:45 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Hugayda Station
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 by: Andriy D - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 13:18 UTC

Hi,

I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
to avoid filesystem issues which may be caused by a short power outage.
There are some interesting schematics online as well as some quite
cheap 'manufactured' options. But I'm wondering, maybe someone has
some experience / feedback to share?

Cheers,

\aID

Re: Backup power supply

<ussdu1$107g1$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid (Mike Scott)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 14:41:05 +0000
Organization: Scott family
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 by: Mike Scott - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 14:41 UTC

On 13/03/2024 13:18, Andriy D wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
> to avoid filesystem issues which may be caused by a short power outage.
> There are some interesting schematics online as well as some quite
> cheap 'manufactured' options. But I'm wondering, maybe someone has
> some experience / feedback to share?

No answers - but it's something I've been wondering about off and on
(albeit for a Pi4). All the commercial stuff I've seen much exceeds the
base Pi in either £££ or W (or both).

Any offers out there? Even something with a stack of AA
non-rechargeables would be fine.

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

Re: Backup power supply

<ussksu$1o22$1@hugayda.aid.in.ua>

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From: use...@dolik.dev (Andriy D)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 16:39:58 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Hugayda Station
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 by: Andriy D - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 16:39 UTC

Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
> On 13/03/2024 13:18, Andriy D wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
>> to avoid filesystem issues which may be caused by a short power outage.
....
>
> Any offers out there? Even something with a stack of AA
> non-rechargeables would be fine.
>

There are tons of different '5v usb ups' options on Aliexpress :)
But if you've ever dealt with them, you know the quality ...

I'm inclining towards DIY as I've found quite developed
schematics online - with a charge control, signaling loop to RPi, auto-restart, etc.
But wanted to check what others did, before diving into 'PCB ordering and
resistors procurement' deeps :)

--

Cheers,
\aID

Backup power supply

<1710348125@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org>

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From: nospam.V...@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org (Vincent Coen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Backup power supply
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 16:32:32 +1300
Organization: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand
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 by: Vincent Coen - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:32 UTC

Hello Andriy!

Wednesday March 13 2024 13:18, you wrote to All:

> Hi,

> I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
> to avoid filesystem issues which may be caused by a short power
> outage. There are some interesting schematics online as well as some
> quite cheap 'manufactured' options. But I'm wondering, maybe someone
> has some experience / feedback to share?

There are some battery powered sub systems/ card available but you are limited
by the capacity of them which is not that great. For all important computer
systems I use APC smart UPS's connect to a large adaptor block that hold
around
9 sockets with the APC unit being 1000Va. I did have a 2k2 VA but the
batteries along with the main board failed and APC do not have spares so
switch
since then to 1000va units for my and my wife's requirements. The batteries
last around 5 - years before replacement and I have found 3rd party sources
for
the batteries for around 30 pounds instead of the 100 or so for the same thing
but with APC branding. It takes less than 5 minutes to swap over and you can
keep the UPS running while doing it.

Note that printers are not connected the the UPS but router and primary hubs
are. I did for a while also have a Pi3B+ (plus Hard drive) also connected to
it when running 24/7 but switched the jobs over to my main system and
discontinued the Pi despite late last year buying at great effort a Pi4B 8Gb,
240 Gb SSD all in a Argon 40 case to act as a back up but never used it - must
remember to sell in on Ebay.

Vincent

Re: Backup power supply

<usssb4$13b1q$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid (Mike Scott)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 18:47:00 +0000
Organization: Scott family
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 by: Mike Scott - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 18:47 UTC

On 13/03/2024 03:32, Vincent Coen wrote:
> systems I use APC smart UPS's connect to a large adaptor block that hold
> around
> 9 sockets with the APC unit being 1000Va. I did have a 2k2 VA but the

And what's the standby current of such a UPS?

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

Re: Backup power supply

<usst0n$13b1q$2@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid (Mike Scott)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
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 by: Mike Scott - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 18:58 UTC

On 13/03/2024 16:39, Andriy D wrote:
> There are tons of different '5v usb ups' options on Aliexpress 🙂
> But if you've ever dealt with them, you know the quality ...

:-}

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

Backup power supply

<710368823@f1.n770.z14837.fidonet.org>

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From: nospam.R...@f1.n770.z14837.fidonet.org (Richard Falken)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Backup power supply
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 13:19:46 +1300
Organization: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand
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 by: Richard Falken - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 00:19 UTC

Re: Backup power supply
By: Andriy D to All on Wed Mar 13 2024 01:18 pm

> Hi,
>
> I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
> to avoid filesystem issues which may be caused by a short power outage.
> There are some interesting schematics online as well as some quite
> cheap 'manufactured' options. But I'm wondering, maybe someone has
> some experience / feedback to share?
>
> Cheers,
>
> \aID
>
> --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
> * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3

Any inexpensive backup power unit from a recognized brand will do. There is no
need to overthinkig it if you don't want to. The cool thing of an Uninterrupted
Power Supply from a recognized manufacturer is you can get one the RPi can talk
to over USB (or whatever), so the RPi will be aware of the stat of the battery
and shutdown if it gets dangerously low.

Production servers hooked to complex power systems are able to send you an
email to your smartphone if power goes out, or if battery gets dangerously low
etc. because of this reason.

Building one yourself? I have never done it but it looks quite doable. Keep in
mind that starting an electrical fire or spilling the contents of your homemade
battery on your carpet sucks. I'd use a self-made unit for the fun of it in a
safe environment but I would not leave it running 24/7 so happily.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

Re: Backup power supply

<ustc1g$16u57$1@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 23:14:56 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 23:14 UTC

Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
> On 13/03/2024 13:18, Andriy D wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
>
> No answers - but it's something I've been wondering about off and on
> (albeit for a Pi4). All the commercial stuff I've seen much exceeds the
> base Pi in either pounds [Sterling] or W (or both).
>
> Any offers out there? Even something with a stack of AA
> non-rechargeables would be fine.

For one Pi a 5 volt regulator connected to a battery
that's held on a float charger is probably the cheapest,
though I think the combo will cost more than any Pi. The
efficiency of such a setup is poor, but for one Pi it's
probably better than a more elaborate scheme. Also, there
is no need for line detection logic, which can be tricky.

For my part I settled on a small inverter/charger connected
to a 12 volt battery. It's even more expensive, but has extra
capacity to run all of my computer and network equipment.
Cost at the time was about $600, more than half of it the
lithium iron phosphate battery. A bit cheaper now.

Rated output is 800 W 120 VAC 60 Hz. The battery can deliver
about half that power for about an hour, or run my equipment
overnight. Standby loss is about 10 watts.

HTH,

bob prohaska

Re: Backup power supply

<usuakf$2d33$1@hugayda.aid.in.ua>

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From: use...@dolik.dev (Andriy D)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 07:57:03 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Hugayda Station
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 by: Andriy D - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 07:57 UTC

Richard Falken <nospam.Richard.Falken@f1.n770.z14837.fidonet.org> wrote:

> > I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
> > to avoid filesystem issues which may be caused by a short power outage.
> > There are some interesting schematics online as well as some quite
> > cheap 'manufactured' options. But I'm wondering, maybe someone has
> > some experience / feedback to share?
>
> Any inexpensive backup power unit from a recognized brand will do. There is no
> need to overthinkig it if you don't want to. The cool thing of an Uninterrupted
You mean full blown AC UPS, like APC used to do? Or do you know some well-known
brands producing USB UPS?

> Building one yourself? I have never done it but it looks quite doable. Keep in
> mind that starting an electrical fire or spilling the contents of your homemade
> battery on your carpet sucks. I'd use a self-made unit for the fun of it in a
> safe environment but I would not leave it running 24/7 so happily.
This is exactly my concern - I want this think up&running 24/7/365 and I don't want
it to burn my house down :)
I guess this is where you'd say 'risk' and 'price' are in a inverse relationship ;)

--

Cheers,
\aID

Re: Backup power supply

<usufb1$1h4j9$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:17:21 +0000
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:17 UTC

On 14/03/2024 07:57, Andriy D wrote:
> This is exactly my concern - I want this think up&running 24/7/365 and I don't want
> it to burn my house down 🙂
> I guess this is where you'd say 'risk' and 'price' are in a inverse relationship 😉
>
>
> --
It is entirely possible to trickle charge a lithium cell at uber low
risk, Essentially you want to current limit the supply at at one tenth
of the hourly capacity so e,g a 2200mAh celll would need to be charged
at no more than 220mA, and voltage limit the charge at 4.2V.

That will give you a cell which, off charge in UPS mode will slowly
decay to an end point of around 3.5V.
You will need a step up converter to deliver a sane 5V to the pi and
some way to power it all down in case of battery going too low.

That's probably a case for a Pi Pico.
Or buy a unit that's already done it all :-)

--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

Re: Backup power supply

<usujgq$2g3o$1@hugayda.aid.in.ua>

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From: use...@dolik.dev (Andriy D)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:28:42 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Andriy D - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:28 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 07:57, Andriy D wrote:
>> This is exactly my concern - I want this think up&running 24/7/365 and I don't want
>> it to burn my house down :)
>> I guess this is where you'd say 'risk' and 'price' are in a inverse relationship ;)
>> --
> It is entirely possible to trickle charge a lithium cell at uber low
> risk, Essentially you want to current limit the supply at at one tenth
> of the hourly capacity so e,g a 2200mAh celll would need to be charged
> at no more than 220mA, and voltage limit the charge at 4.2V.
Majority of the schemes I've found so far suggest use of NiMH cells as
they are less 'combustive'. However cheap AliExpress devices do use Li-ion
cells. Confusing :)

--

Cheers,
\aID

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From: non...@nowhere.whereo (Joe)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 15:51:29 +0000
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 by: Joe - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 15:51 UTC

I'm using a cheap APC, I believe 650 or 750, with USB monitoring hookup. Also have my router connected (with VOIP) to keep
communication possible for a little while (runtime abt 30 minutes). Battery replaced once, I believe it was some 7 years old.

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 13:18:45 -0000 (UTC), usenet@dolik.dev (Andriy D) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
>to avoid filesystem issues which may be caused by a short power outage.
>There are some interesting schematics online as well as some quite
>cheap 'manufactured' options. But I'm wondering, maybe someone has
>some experience / feedback to share?
>
>Cheers,
>
>\aID

Re: Backup power supply

<usv8q2$1nj68$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid (Mike Scott)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:32:01 +0000
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 by: Mike Scott - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:32 UTC

On 14/03/2024 15:51, Joe wrote:
> I'm using a cheap APC, I believe 650 or 750, with USB monitoring hookup. Also have my router connected (with VOIP) to keep
> communication possible for a little while (runtime abt 30 minutes). Battery replaced once, I believe it was some 7 years old.

Somehow that makes no sense to me..... current 650 is £227 (maybe plus
VAT) on the APC website. 5 times the cost of the Pi. I'm sure it's a
very nice UPS, but.... ???

>
>
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 13:18:45 -0000 (UTC), usenet@dolik.dev (Andriy D) wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
>> to avoid filesystem issues which may be caused by a short power outage.
>> There are some interesting schematics online as well as some quite
>> cheap 'manufactured' options. But I'm wondering, maybe someone has
>> some experience / feedback to share?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> \aID

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

Re: Backup power supply

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Subject: Re: Backup power supply
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 by: - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 18:11 UTC

Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 15:51, Joe wrote:
>> I'm using a cheap APC, I believe 650 or 750, with USB monitoring hookup. Also have my router connected (with VOIP) to keep
>> communication possible for a little while (runtime abt 30 minutes). Battery replaced once, I believe it was some 7 years old.
>
> Somehow that makes no sense to me..... current 650 is 227 pounds (maybe plus
> VAT) on the APC website. 5 times the cost of the Pi. I'm sure it's a
> very nice UPS, but.... ???
>

Sense or not, it seems to be a fact of life. The inverter/charger/transfer units
I used have vanished from Amazon, replace by units with four times the power and
double the price. Battery prices seem to have dropped very slightly, but are
still a whisker over $200/kWH.

A 12 volt to 5 volt stepdown converter appears to be less than $10, small 12 volt
batteries range from $20-100 in the few AH range, a 12 volt 5 amp charger ranges
from $11 to $50. The charger would be the iffy part, since a smart charger on a
loaded battery is apt to get confused by what looks like high self-discharge..

Something reliable for less than $100 will take both luck and ingenuity. One
possibility is finding a used UPS unit in e-waste and replacing the battery.

bob prohaska

>
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 13:18:45 -0000 (UTC), usenet@dolik.dev (Andriy D) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm considering adding some backup power supply for my RPi2 mainly
>>> to avoid filesystem issues which may be caused by a short power outage.
>>> There are some interesting schematics online as well as some quite
>>> cheap 'manufactured' options. But I'm wondering, maybe someone has
>>> some experience / feedback to share?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> \aID
>

Re: Backup power supply

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Message-ID: <65f36ffb@news.ausics.net>
From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
References: <uss93l$1jcu$1@hugayda.aid.in.ua> <710368823@f1.n770.z14837.fidonet.org> <usuakf$2d33$1@hugayda.aid.in.ua> <usufb1$1h4j9$1@dont-email.me> <usujgq$2g3o$1@hugayda.aid.in.ua>
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 21:45 UTC

Andriy D <usenet@dolik.dev> wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 14/03/2024 07:57, Andriy D wrote:
>>> This is exactly my concern - I want this think up&running 24/7/365 and I don't want
>>> it to burn my house down :)
>>> I guess this is where you'd say 'risk' and 'price' are in a inverse relationship ;)
>>> --
>> It is entirely possible to trickle charge a lithium cell at uber low
>> risk, Essentially you want to current limit the supply at at one tenth
>> of the hourly capacity so e,g a 2200mAh celll would need to be charged
>> at no more than 220mA, and voltage limit the charge at 4.2V.
> Majority of the schemes I've found so far suggest use of NiMH cells as
> they are less 'combustive'.

Indeed, but if the power requirements are low (a Pi Zero without any
power-hungry USB/HDMI connections) then supercaps might be an easier
option. Since then you don't need to worry about over-charging,
which will still wear out NiMH, even if it doesn't then burn your
house down.

Here's one project that came up in a quick search:
https://hackaday.com/2020/11/05/a-super-ups-for-the-pi/

> However cheap AliExpress devices do use Li-ion cells. Confusing :)

Confusing? Not at all, those Chinese sellers know you're not going
to be able to sue them if their junk burns your house down. If you
buy a mains powered device from them I think you're lucky if the
secondary doesn't short right through to the mains and kill you
when you touch it - it's happened before with phone chargers. It
was recently in the news here in Aus that Li-Ion batteries had
caused over 1,000 fires in the past year. I'm highly suspicious
even of cheap locally-distributed Li-Ion products and wouldn't
consider buying one from an unaccountable AliExpress seller unless
I was prepared to sit near it the whole time it charges on a
fire-proof surface.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Backup power supply

<1710450050@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org>

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From: nospam.V...@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org (Vincent Coen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Backup power supply
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 21:00:49 +1300
Organization: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand
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 by: Vincent Coen - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:00 UTC

Hello Mike!

Wednesday March 13 2024 18:47, you wrote to me:

> On 13/03/2024 03:32, Vincent Coen wrote:
>> systems I use APC smart UPS's connect to a large adaptor block that
>> hold around 9 sockets with the APC unit being 1000Va. I did have a
>> 2k2 VA but the

> And what's the standby current of such a UPS?

Standby ?

Assuming it is fully charged which would be normal (assuming no outage in the
preceding 2 - 3 hours 95% or better.

Otherwise do you mean the estimated run time if so then system under power in
watts per
hour under the rated size - 25% so lets say :

750 w
---- = 150 = long time :)
5 w

Also e.g., my desktop / server system with an estimated consumption of 250w
(and it is lower as using modular PSU, 85% eff or better ) would be around 3
hours but that assumes there is nothing else under load and there is such as::
Router
Baby Hub
Monitor ( but only when I am using it )
Telephone systems including VOIP adaptor
Residual loading - not known as no means to test it.

Total time with a 25% battery remaining around 90 minutes allowing for 7
minutes to shut down and battery remaining of around 22-23 % approx.

If I am present when power goes I can shutdown the monitor and let it does its
thing if battery drops to predetermined amount of 25%.
That said during the cold months (UK wise) and I am around I will manually
shutdown after 15 minutes and transfer the UPS o/p to the C.H. and turn it on
in which case over 24 hours runtime, but so far has never got any where near
it
before power is restored. My old house in a village power outs could be longer
and hence the reason for 2 x 2.2Kva UPS's. ( Also smart models ).

Gave me enough time to power up my ex-mil generator if needed but it was a
petrol model so did go through it - petrol I mean so had to keep a few jerry
cans filled with fresh fuel as a JIC.

Vincent

Re: Backup power supply

<3j47vil94ojh69jjvoivqtq3r3gma4mqpr@4ax.com>

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From: inva...@invalid.invalid (Jim H)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
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 by: Jim H - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 00:21 UTC

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:28:42 -0000 (UTC), in
<usujgq$2g3o$1@hugayda.aid.in.ua>, usenet@dolik.dev (Andriy D) wrote:

>The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 14/03/2024 07:57, Andriy D wrote:
>>> This is exactly my concern - I want this think up&running 24/7/365 and I don't want
>>> it to burn my house down :)
>>> I guess this is where you'd say 'risk' and 'price' are in a inverse relationship ;)
>>> --
>> It is entirely possible to trickle charge a lithium cell at uber low
>> risk, Essentially you want to current limit the supply at at one tenth
>> of the hourly capacity so e,g a 2200mAh celll would need to be charged
>> at no more than 220mA, and voltage limit the charge at 4.2V.
>
>Majority of the schemes I've found so far suggest use of NiMH cells as
>they are less 'combustive'. However cheap AliExpress devices do use Li-ion
>cells. Confusing :)

Perhaps what's confusing are the words "trickle charge." You don't
"trickle charge" LiIon cells in the sense that most people think of
trickle charging. A charger limited to 220 ma at 4.2 volts max is a
constant voltage current limited charger, more commonly called a
"float charger."

Forget "trickle charger" and just pay attention to the description NP
gave of its electrical characteristics.
--
Jim H

Re: Backup power supply

<ut11rq$dse$1@hugayda.aid.in.ua>

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 08:45:46 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Andriy D - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 08:45 UTC

Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> Andriy D <usenet@dolik.dev> wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 14/03/2024 07:57, Andriy D wrote:
>>>> This is exactly my concern - I want this think up&running 24/7/365 and I don't want
>>>> it to burn my house down :)
>>>> I guess this is where you'd say 'risk' and 'price' are in a inverse relationship ;)
>>>> --
>>> It is entirely possible to trickle charge a lithium cell at uber low
>>> risk, Essentially you want to current limit the supply at at one tenth
>>> of the hourly capacity so e,g a 2200mAh celll would need to be charged
>>> at no more than 220mA, and voltage limit the charge at 4.2V.
>> Majority of the schemes I've found so far suggest use of NiMH cells as
>> they are less 'combustive'.
>
> Indeed, but if the power requirements are low (a Pi Zero without any
> power-hungry USB/HDMI connections) then supercaps might be an easier
> option. Since then you don't need to worry about over-charging,
> which will still wear out NiMH, even if it doesn't then burn your
> house down.
I had this thought as well, as all I need is to have enough power to
cover for a few seconds of a power outage or gracefully shutdown RPi if
it's longer than that. Thanks for that link!

--

Cheers,
\aID

Re: Backup power supply

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Subject: Re: Backup power supply
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 by: Andy Burns - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:40 UTC

Vincent Coen wrote:

> Mike Scott wrote:
>
>> And what's the standby current of such a UPS?
>
> Standby ?
>
> Assuming it is fully charged which would be normal (assuming no outage in the
> preceding 2 - 3 hours 95% or better.
>
> Otherwise do you mean the estimated run time if so then system under power in
> watts per
> hour under the rated size - 25% so lets say :
>
> 750 w
> ---- = 150 = long time :)
> 5 w

I think he means what's the vampire load of just keeping a UPS warm :-)

Re: Backup power supply

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 10:51:41 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 10:51 UTC

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 21:00:49 +1300
nospam.Vincent.Coen@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org (Vincent Coen) wrote:

> Assuming it is fully charged which would be normal (assuming no outage in
> the preceding 2 - 3 hours 95% or better.
>
> Otherwise do you mean the estimated run time if so then system under
> power in watts per
> hour

You have units confusion. Watt is a unit of power, a rate of
movement of energy. Watt-Hours and similar units are units of energy. Watts
per hour is meaningless.

> under the rated size - 25% so lets say :

Assuming you are talking about an APC SMT750I or similar they are
rated for a power output of 750VA or 500W. At full power the battery is
good for about five minutes.

> 750 w
> ---- = 150 = long time :)
> 5 w

Make that 5 minutes * 500W/5W or 500 minutes which is indeed a long
time but a lot shorter than the 150 hours you were expecting.

> Also e.g., my desktop / server system with an estimated consumption of
> 250w (and it is lower as using modular PSU, 85% eff or better ) would be
> around 3 hours but that assumes there is nothing else under load and

No it would be maybe 15 minutes.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

Re: Backup power supply

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From: non...@nowhere.whereo (Joe)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 12:55:25 +0000
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 by: Joe - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 12:55 UTC

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:32:01 +0000, Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:

>On 14/03/2024 15:51, Joe wrote:
>> I'm using a cheap APC, I believe 650 or 750, with USB monitoring hookup. Also have my router connected (with VOIP) to keep
>> communication possible for a little while (runtime abt 30 minutes). Battery replaced once, I believe it was some 7 years old.
>
>Somehow that makes no sense to me..... current 650 is £227 (maybe plus
>VAT) on the APC website. 5 times the cost of the Pi. I'm sure it's a
>very nice UPS, but.... ???

It's a APC Back-UPS ES 8 Outlet 700VA 230V, paid 70 eur for it (clearance sale). Replacement battery was 54 eur. Like mentioned
it's NOT just for the Pi but also for the fiber router/VOIP as cell phone is unreliable here.

Since then for other purposes I've also got an Eaton Ellipse ECO 1600 @ 184 eur (Amazon daily sale).

SO I guess looking around for reasonable prices may make sense....

This one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eaton-850B-UPS-Uninterruptible-Type-Black-white/dp/B0B3RQN8QT @ (today) 126 UKP is similar to the
APC, includes shutdown & monitoring via USB + software. I trust Eaton as much (or more) as APC.

Re: Backup power supply

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From: use...@dolik.dev (Andriy D)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:28:29 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Andriy D - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:28 UTC

Joe <none@nowhere.whereo> wrote:

>>> I'm using a cheap APC, I believe 650 or 750, with USB monitoring
>>> hookup. Also have my router connected (with VOIP) to keep
>>> communication possible for a little while (runtime abt 30 minutes).
>>> Battery replaced once, I believe it was some 7 years old.
>>
>>Somehow that makes no sense to me..... current 650 is 227 (maybe plus
>>VAT) on the APC website. 5 times the cost of the Pi. I'm sure it's a
>>very nice UPS, but.... ???
....
>
> This one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eaton-850B-UPS-Uninterruptible-Type
> -Black-white/dp/B0B3RQN8QT
> @ (today) 126 UKP is similar to the
> APC, includes shutdown & monitoring via USB + software. I trust Eaton
> as much (or more) as APC.
Speaking of Eaton, I've found they have Eaton 3S Mini UPS which seems to
be good a match for my original purpose. And price of around 50 eur makes
it a cheapest brand-name option so far :)

--

Cheers,
\aID

Re: Backup power supply

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From: new...@druck.org.uk (druck)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:43:53 +0000
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 by: druck - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:43 UTC

On 15/03/2024 10:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> Make that 5 minutes * 500W/5W or 500 minutes which is indeed a long
> time but a lot shorter than the 150 hours you were expecting.

If you want 150 hours, you need to be looking at a backup generator, so
your UPS only needs to last as long as it takes for your generator to
fire up.

That's usually a couple of minutes for professional diesel ones, but as
its home setup it might take you a few minutes to connect it up and pull
the starter cord on a cheap petrol one.

It might then take a few more minutes to drain the tank of the sludge
that used to be fuel last time you used it, and to run to the garage to
get some fresh petrol.

It might take a few more minutes if your spark plugs have been fouled as
you didn't clean it after use, and your air filter has a hundred
different types of bugs living it.

So make sure the UPS lasts an hour or 2.

Oh and once you've managed to get it going, and it's making a tremendous
racket, just remember everyone else in the neighbourhood who is without
power will be turning to look in your direction...

---druck

Re: Backup power supply

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: Backup power supply
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 14:30 UTC

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:43:53 +0000
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> On 15/03/2024 10:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > Make that 5 minutes * 500W/5W or 500 minutes which is indeed a
> > long time but a lot shorter than the 150 hours you were expecting.
>
> If you want 150 hours, you need to be looking at a backup generator, so
> your UPS only needs to last as long as it takes for your generator to
> fire up.

Of course - but I don't think anyone wanted 150 hours they were
just confused about Watts and Watt-hours and seemed to think that's what
they would get.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

Backup power supply

<1710513047@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org>

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From: nospam.V...@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org (Vincent Coen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Backup power supply
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 14:10:58 +1300
Organization: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand
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 by: Vincent Coen - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 01:10 UTC

Hello Ahem!

Friday March 15 2024 10:51, you wrote to me:

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 21:00:49 +1300
> nospam.Vincent.Coen@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org (Vincent Coen) wrote:

>> Assuming it is fully charged which would be normal (assuming no
>> outage in the preceding 2 - 3 hours 95% or better.
>>
>> Otherwise do you mean the estimated run time if so then system under
>> power in watts per
>> hour

> You have units confusion. Watt is a unit of power, a rate of
> movement of energy. Watt-Hours and similar units are units of energy.
> Watts per hour is meaningless.

>> under the rated size - 25% so lets say :

> Assuming you are talking about an APC SMT750I or similar they are
> rated for a power output of 750VA or 500W. At full power the battery
> is good for about five minutes.

>> 750 w
>> ---- = 150 = long time :)
>> 5 w

> Make that 5 minutes * 500W/5W or 500 minutes which is indeed a
> long time but a lot shorter than the 150 hours you were expecting.

>> Also e.g., my desktop / server system with an estimated consumption
>> of 250w (and it is lower as using modular PSU, 85% eff or better )
>> would be around 3 hours but that assumes there is nothing else under
>> load and

> No it would be maybe 15 minutes.

The time specified in my post was based on ACTUAL power on time using battery
only.

No I will admit it is also based on some other kit being turned off / shutdown
if needed such as the monitor (keyboard / mouse are battery powered).
Hub is very low, router low with no secondary kit being connected to the UPS
such as printers as not required for normal operation.
The primary system uses a modular PSU and secondary DASD are stopped if not
use
after 2 minutes - they are rarely used other than back ups and secondary
systems / O/S, etc.

Likewise on receipt of a power cut and after a predefined number of minutes
not
needed applications are shut down although there is no many.

Average time before the system will shutdown is 75 - 90 minutes on a 1000Kva
UPS and with a newish battery. The UPS is connected directly to supply so is
always being under charge or at least being topped up if needed.

Real live cycle of the UPS battery depends totally on the number of times the
UPS is used when the mains power goes down and since moving from a village to
town property, power cuts are rare and normally short.

I do not have a way of working out exactly the power requirements are of the
main system although I can look at the loading of the UPS via a direct web
location going by memory as it has been years since I tried it and that
assumes it was the APC model I currently use as I down sized our UPS's after
down sizing our home when the mobo's failed on the 2200Kva units.
The cost of the current kit, new, was around 300 each and they have had a
least
one change of batteries each.

Not all computer around the house has them such as the media recording system
(using MythTV under Ubuntu) does not.

One powered kit in the village was the C.H. (Gas boiler and controls) but now
just use an extension lead to connect it if needed and only in the cold winter
period, I seem to recall, maybe once.

Vincent

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