....one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's own
CPUs...

...and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech media...

'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to our
tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than some Intel
CPUs in today's Macs.'

<https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's own
> CPUs...
>
> ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech media...
>
> 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to our
> tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than some Intel
> CPUs in today's Macs.'
>
> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>

It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge manufacturing and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this far along. Give credit where credit is due.

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:19:46 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> > ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's own
> > CPUs...
> >
> > ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech media...
> >
> > 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to our
> > tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than some Intel
> > CPUs in today's Macs.'
> >
> > <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>
>
> It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge manufacturing
> and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this far along. Give credit
> where credit is due.

The problem with that logic is that it permeates everywhere: if BMW
doesn’t literally pump it’s own crude oil & refine it to lubricants, then
by this logic, BMW isn’t a manufacturer of cars, because they outsourced
a portion (motor oil) to another company.

-hh

On 2022-03-19 7:19 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
>> ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's
>> own CPUs...
>>
>> ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech
>> media...
>>
>> 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to
>> our tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than
>> some Intel CPUs in today's Macs.'
>>
>> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>
>
>>
> It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge
> manufacturing and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this
> far along. Give credit where credit is due.

Nonsense.

TSMC's manufacturing is available to anyone who wants to hire them...

....and yet it is Apple's chips that lead...

....and not by a small margin.

Second and more importantly, this thread is solely about who DESIGNS
Apple's chips...

....and it is Apple who designs them.

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 11:00:07 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:19:46 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> > > ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's own
> > > CPUs...
> > >
> > > ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech media...
> > >
> > > 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to our
> > > tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than some Intel
> > > CPUs in today's Macs.'
> > >
> > > <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>
> >
> > It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge manufacturing
> > and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this far along. Give credit
> > where credit is due.
> The problem with that logic is that it permeates everywhere: if BMW
> doesn’t literally pump it’s own crude oil & refine it to lubricants, then
> by this logic, BMW isn’t a manufacturer of cars, because they outsourced
> a portion (motor oil) to another company.
>
> -hh

Are you SO stupid to think that BMW makes 100% of its cars?

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/060115/who-are-bmws-main-suppliers..asp

The following is a list of SOME of BMW's automotive parts suppliers (either current or previous suppliers), along with the component parts that they've supplied:

Brembo: This company provides brake calipers
Dräxlmaier Group: Supplier of interior panels
Peiker Acustic GmbH: Provider of high-speed mobile Internet for cars. In 2012, BMW became the first automaker to introduce this feature.
Thyssenkrupp: Supplies steering columns, shock absorbers, and suspension parts
BorgWarner: Provider of drivetrain components, such as clutches and automatic transmissions
Elringklinger: Maker of gaskets and exhaust system components
Mahle: Supplies piston and cylinder components, valve train systems, and air and liquid management systems
Bridgestone: Supplier of tires
GKN Driveline: Provides axle assemblies
Johnson Electric: Supplies cooling and heating fan modules
Gestamp: Providers of front and rear hood assemblies
Apag Elektronik AG: Interior lighting components
Delphi: Battery and electric vehicle charger components
Hirschvogel: Wheels
Magna: Body casting stampings
Harman/Kardon: Interior music and audio systems

Does BMW design audio systems, tire, mobile internet, lighting?

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 1:31:00 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-03-19 7:19 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> >> ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's
> >> own CPUs...
> >>
> >> ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech
> >> media...
> >>
> >> 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to
> >> our tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than
> >> some Intel CPUs in today's Macs.'
> >>
> >> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>
> >
> >>
> > It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge
> > manufacturing and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this
> > far along. Give credit where credit is due.
> Nonsense.
>
> TSMC's manufacturing is available to anyone who wants to hire them...
>
> ...and yet it is Apple's chips that lead...
>
> ...and not by a small margin.
>
> Second and more importantly, this thread is solely about who DESIGNS
> Apple's chips...
>
> ...and it is Apple who designs them.

All true, but absent TSMC tech the chips Apple designs would not be as fast as they are.

On 2022-03-22 5:31 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 11:00:07 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:19:46 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
>>>> ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's own
>>>> CPUs...
>>>>
>>>> ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech media...
>>>>
>>>> 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to our
>>>> tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than some Intel
>>>> CPUs in today's Macs.'
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>
>>>
>>> It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge manufacturing
>>> and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this far along. Give credit
>>> where credit is due.
>> The problem with that logic is that it permeates everywhere: if BMW
>> doesn’t literally pump it’s own crude oil & refine it to lubricants, then
>> by this logic, BMW isn’t a manufacturer of cars, because they outsourced
>> a portion (motor oil) to another company.
>>
>> -hh
>
> Are you SO stupid to think that BMW makes 100% of its cars?

No, you twit.

He is NOT.

YOU are so stupid that you think that because someone makes a component
for Apple that the component isn't really Apple's.

An engine made to BMW's design by some other manufacturer is still a BMW
engine.

>
> https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/060115/who-are-bmws-main-suppliers.asp
>
> The following is a list of SOME of BMW's automotive parts suppliers (either current or previous suppliers), along with the component parts that they've supplied:
>
> Brembo: This company provides brake calipers
> Dräxlmaier Group: Supplier of interior panels
> Peiker Acustic GmbH: Provider of high-speed mobile Internet for cars. In 2012, BMW became the first automaker to introduce this feature.
> Thyssenkrupp: Supplies steering columns, shock absorbers, and suspension parts
> BorgWarner: Provider of drivetrain components, such as clutches and automatic transmissions
> Elringklinger: Maker of gaskets and exhaust system components
> Mahle: Supplies piston and cylinder components, valve train systems, and air and liquid management systems
> Bridgestone: Supplier of tires
> GKN Driveline: Provides axle assemblies
> Johnson Electric: Supplies cooling and heating fan modules
> Gestamp: Providers of front and rear hood assemblies
> Apag Elektronik AG: Interior lighting components
> Delphi: Battery and electric vehicle charger components
> Hirschvogel: Wheels
> Magna: Body casting stampings
> Harman/Kardon: Interior music and audio systems
>
> Does BMW design audio systems, tire, mobile internet, lighting?

On 2022-03-22 5:33 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 1:31:00 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-03-19 7:19 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
>>>> ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's
>>>> own CPUs...
>>>>
>>>> ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech
>>>> media...
>>>>
>>>> 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to
>>>> our tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than
>>>> some Intel CPUs in today's Macs.'
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>
>>>
>>>>
>>> It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge
>>> manufacturing and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this
>>> far along. Give credit where credit is due.
>> Nonsense.
>>
>> TSMC's manufacturing is available to anyone who wants to hire them...
>>
>> ...and yet it is Apple's chips that lead...
>>
>> ...and not by a small margin.
>>
>> Second and more importantly, this thread is solely about who DESIGNS
>> Apple's chips...
>>
>> ...and it is Apple who designs them.
>
> All true, but absent TSMC tech the chips Apple designs would not be as fast as they are.

Yet everyone who wants to have it, can access that same "tech"...

....and none of them are coming close to what Apple is doing.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 8:49:37 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-03-22 5:31 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 11:00:07 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:19:46 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> >>>> ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's own
> >>>> CPUs...
> >>>>
> >>>> ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech media...
> >>>>
> >>>> 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to our
> >>>> tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than some Intel
> >>>> CPUs in today's Macs.'
> >>>>
> >>>> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>
> >>>
> >>> It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge manufacturing
> >>> and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this far along. Give credit
> >>> where credit is due.
> >>
> >> The problem with that logic is that it permeates everywhere: if BMW
> >> doesn’t literally pump it’s own crude oil & refine it to lubricants, then
> >> by this logic, BMW isn’t a manufacturer of cars, because they outsourced
> >> a portion (motor oil) to another company.
> >>
> >> -hh
> >
> > Are you SO stupid to think that BMW makes 100% of its cars?
>
> No, you twit.
> He is NOT.

Correct: its not about who happens to fab a component, but who owns the
IP of that design.
> YOU are so stupid that you think that because someone makes a component
> for Apple that the component isn't really Apple's.

About the best that Tommy can note is that a component was made with a
unique manufacturing process that only that vendor (or a few vendors) have
the technical know-how or capacity to do. IIRC, this is where TSMC is at, in
having a fab masking process that is a nm or so smaller than the rest of the
industry ... but this doesn't really mean that its a TSMC design from an IP
standpoint: it means that that chip mask is currently only capable of being
tabbed by TSMC: minimum dimensions on masks have been dropping for
decades, so its only a matter of time until Intel (etc) have the identical
manufacturing capability.
> An engine made to BMW's design by some other manufacturer is still a BMW
> engine.

Which is why if one needs a new BMW engine, one can't just go find a
dozen different companies selling the identical motor. Even an older one.

-hh

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 6:29:26 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 8:49:37 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> > On 2022-03-22 5:31 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > > On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 11:00:07 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> > >> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:19:46 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> > >>>> ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's own
> > >>>> CPUs...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech media....
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to our
> > >>>> tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than some Intel
> > >>>> CPUs in today's Macs.'
> > >>>>
> > >>>> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>
> > >>>
> > >>> It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge manufacturing
> > >>> and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this far along. Give credit
> > >>> where credit is due.
> > >>
> > >> The problem with that logic is that it permeates everywhere: if BMW
> > >> doesn’t literally pump it’s own crude oil & refine it to lubricants, then
> > >> by this logic, BMW isn’t a manufacturer of cars, because they outsourced
> > >> a portion (motor oil) to another company.
> > >>
> > >> -hh
> > >
> > > Are you SO stupid to think that BMW makes 100% of its cars?
> >
> > No, you twit.
> > He is NOT.
> Correct: its not about who happens to fab a component, but who owns the
> IP of that design.
> > YOU are so stupid that you think that because someone makes a component
> > for Apple that the component isn't really Apple's.
> About the best that Tommy can note is that a component was made with a
> unique manufacturing process that only that vendor (or a few vendors) have
> the technical know-how or capacity to do. IIRC, this is where TSMC is at, in
> having a fab masking process that is a nm or so smaller than the rest of the
> industry ... but this doesn't really mean that its a TSMC design from an IP
> standpoint: it means that that chip mask is currently only capable of being
> tabbed by TSMC: minimum dimensions on masks have been dropping for
> decades, so its only a matter of time until Intel (etc) have the identical
> manufacturing capability.
> > An engine made to BMW's design by some other manufacturer is still a BMW
> > engine.
> Which is why if one needs a new BMW engine, one can't just go find a
> dozen different companies selling the identical motor. Even an older one.
>
> -hh

Do you really believe that car makers own all IP for the cars they make? LOL

On 2022-03-23 7:19 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 6:29:26 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 8:49:37 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-03-22 5:31 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 11:00:07 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:19:46 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:20:36 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> ...one single reference that claims that Apple isn't designing it's own
>>>>>>> CPUs...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ..and how they managed to dupe everyone in the entire tech media...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Macs will transition to Apple-designed chips that, according to our
>>>>>>> tests, are already better-performing (in some respects) than some Intel
>>>>>>> CPUs in today's Macs.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-might-apples-arm-silicon-perform-in-future-macs-we-ran-some-benchmarks>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's Apple's design on TSMC's silicon. Absent TSMC leading edge manufacturing
>>>>>> and silicon design innovations Apple would not be this far along. Give credit
>>>>>> where credit is due.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem with that logic is that it permeates everywhere: if BMW
>>>>> doesn’t literally pump it’s own crude oil & refine it to lubricants, then
>>>>> by this logic, BMW isn’t a manufacturer of cars, because they outsourced
>>>>> a portion (motor oil) to another company.
>>>>>
>>>>> -hh
>>>>
>>>> Are you SO stupid to think that BMW makes 100% of its cars?
>>>
>>> No, you twit.
>>> He is NOT.
>> Correct: its not about who happens to fab a component, but who owns the
>> IP of that design.
>>> YOU are so stupid that you think that because someone makes a component
>>> for Apple that the component isn't really Apple's.
>> About the best that Tommy can note is that a component was made with a
>> unique manufacturing process that only that vendor (or a few vendors) have
>> the technical know-how or capacity to do. IIRC, this is where TSMC is at, in
>> having a fab masking process that is a nm or so smaller than the rest of the
>> industry ... but this doesn't really mean that its a TSMC design from an IP
>> standpoint: it means that that chip mask is currently only capable of being
>> tabbed by TSMC: minimum dimensions on masks have been dropping for
>> decades, so its only a matter of time until Intel (etc) have the identical
>> manufacturing capability.
>>> An engine made to BMW's design by some other manufacturer is still a BMW
>>> engine.
>> Which is why if one needs a new BMW engine, one can't just go find a
>> dozen different companies selling the identical motor. Even an older one.
>>
>> -hh
>
> Do you really believe that car makers own all IP for the cars they make? LOL

Why can't you ever play it straight, Liarboy.

That isn't what was said and you know it.