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computers / alt.os.linux.suse / Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?

SubjectAuthor
* Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Tristan Miller
+- Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Andrew
+* Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Carlos E.R.
|`* Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Andrew
| `* Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Carlos E.R.
|  +- Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Bit Twister
|  `* Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Tristan Miller
|   +- Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Andrew
|   `- Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Carlos E.R.
`- Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?Andrew

1
Subject: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Tristan Miller
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:11 UTC
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: psychon...@nothingisreal.com (Tristan Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:11:24 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Greetings.

Occasionally when I boot my machine, the system pauses for a minute or two with the message, "A start job is running for Purge old kernels".

If I understand correctly, purging old kernels simply means uninstalling them.  If this is the case, why is this something that boot has to block for?  I mean, once the system is up an running, I can always use zypper or rpm to manually remove old kernels.  So it's obviously something that *can* be done without interfering with my use of the machine.  I get why the bootup script might want to clean up old kernels every once in a while, but why can't it just launch a process that does this unobtrusively in the background?

Regards,
Tristan

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                   Tristan Miller
Free Software developer, ferret herder, logologist
              https://logological.org/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Andrew
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 15:34 UTC
References: 1
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!iNGj/luDezKLilfl3oxwcA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Dou...@hyperspace.vogon.gov (Andrew)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 17:34:56 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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Tristan Miller wrote:
Greetings.

Occasionally when I boot my machine, the system pauses for a minute or two with the message, "A start job is running for Purge old kernels".

If I understand correctly, purging old kernels simply means uninstalling them.  If this is the case, why is this something that boot has to block for?  I mean, once the system is up an running, I can always use zypper or rpm to manually remove old kernels.  So it's obviously something that *can* be done without interfering with my use of the machine.  I get why the bootup script might want to clean up old kernels every once in a while, but why can't it just launch a process that does this unobtrusively in the background?

Regards,
Tristan


I think you'll find that the function runs the next time you boot after a kernel update, but I was wondering exactly the same thing yesterday evening.  A new kernel was installed, I rebooted and then watched the system taking a timeout while removing the (-2) kernel.

--
This mail has been tested by https://RKIvirus.com/ and has been found to contain Covid-19. Disinfect after reading.


Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:58 UTC
References: 1
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 00:58:42 +0200
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On 2022-04-14 13:11, Tristan Miller wrote:
Greetings.

Occasionally when I boot my machine, the system pauses for a minute or two with the message, "A start job is running for Purge old kernels".

If I understand correctly, purging old kernels simply means uninstalling them.  If this is the case, why is this something that boot has to block for?  I mean, once the system is up an running, I can always use zypper or rpm to manually remove old kernels.  So it's obviously something that *can* be done without interfering with my use of the machine.  I get why the bootup script might want to clean up old kernels every once in a while, but why can't it just launch a process that does this unobtrusively in the background?

AFAIK, it doesn't block here, other things continue running, even the boot sequence. I can not check this instant, but I think I can login while the job is running. I should be able to verify this tomorrow.

You do not say what release you are using.


The job simply calls on zypper to delete the oldest kernel after an update.

You can verify what it does by running:

systemctl cat purge-kernels.service


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Andrew
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 07:16 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!iNGj/luDezKLilfl3oxwcA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Dou...@hyperspace.vogon.gov (Andrew)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:16:26 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t3gesa$nal$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-04-14 13:11, Tristan Miller wrote:
Greetings.

Occasionally when I boot my machine, the system pauses for a minute or two with the message, "A start job is running for Purge old kernels".

If I understand correctly, purging old kernels simply means uninstalling them.  If this is the case, why is this something that boot has to block for?  I mean, once the system is up an running, I can always use zypper or rpm to manually remove old kernels.  So it's obviously something that *can* be done without interfering with my use of the machine.  I get why the bootup script might want to clean up old kernels every once in a while, but why can't it just launch a process that does this unobtrusively in the background?

AFAIK, it doesn't block here, other things continue running, even the boot sequence. I can not check this instant, but I think I can login while the job is running. I should be able to verify this tomorrow.

You do not say what release you are using.


The job simply calls on zypper to delete the oldest kernel after an update.

You can verify what it does by running:

systemctl cat purge-kernels.service


I have Leap 15.3 with the splash screen turned off so that I can see what is going on.  The script runs as part of the boot process and *before* logging in is possible, this is obviously what Tristan sees as well.  In my case - on my old laptop, no ssd - it delays the appearance of the login screen by just over a minute.
No idea if this is something new, I'll often boot and then get on with something else for a minute or two.  It *is* something I first noticed a couple of days before Tristan reported it here.

--
This mail has been tested by https://RKIvirus.com/ and has been found to contain Covid-19. Disinfect after reading.


Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:26 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:26:14 +0200
Lines: 64
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On 2022-04-17 09:16, Andrew wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-04-14 13:11, Tristan Miller wrote:
Greetings.

Occasionally when I boot my machine, the system pauses for a minute or two with the message, "A start job is running for Purge old kernels".

If I understand correctly, purging old kernels simply means uninstalling them.  If this is the case, why is this something that boot has to block for?  I mean, once the system is up an running, I can always use zypper or rpm to manually remove old kernels.  So it's obviously something that *can* be done without interfering with my use of the machine.  I get why the bootup script might want to clean up old kernels every once in a while, but why can't it just launch a process that does this unobtrusively in the background?

AFAIK, it doesn't block here, other things continue running, even the boot sequence. I can not check this instant, but I think I can login while the job is running. I should be able to verify this tomorrow.

You do not say what release you are using.


The job simply calls on zypper to delete the oldest kernel after an update.

You can verify what it does by running:

systemctl cat purge-kernels.service


I have Leap 15.3 with the splash screen turned off so that I can see what is going on.  The script runs as part of the boot process and *before* logging in is possible, this is obviously what Tristan sees as well.  In my case - on my old laptop, no ssd - it delays the appearance of the login screen by just over a minute.
No idea if this is something new, I'll often boot and then get on with something else for a minute or two.  It *is* something I first noticed a couple of days before Tristan reported it here.


I booted this Leap 15.3 today after a kernel update. I did:

systemd-analyze plot >bootup.svg
eog bootup.svg


And I clearly see that the boot process continues running while purge-kernels is running (for 41 seconds in my case).

It is the service "display-manager" which waits, apparently.


You can run "systemd-analyze critical-chain", but in my case "purge-kernels" is not listed, which I think it means it does not delay others.


I suggest you ask in the support mail list.


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Bit Twister
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:48 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: BitTwis...@mouse-potato.com (Bit Twister)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 08:48:20 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:26:14 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-04-17 09:16, Andrew wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-04-14 13:11, Tristan Miller wrote:
Greetings.

Occasionally when I boot my machine, the system pauses for a minute
or two with the message, "A start job is running for Purge old kernels".

If I understand correctly, purging old kernels simply means
uninstalling them.  If this is the case, why is this something that
boot has to block for?  I mean, once the system is up an running, I
can always use zypper or rpm to manually remove old kernels.  So it's
obviously something that *can* be done without interfering with my
use of the machine.  I get why the bootup script might want to clean
up old kernels every once in a while, but why can't it just launch a
process that does this unobtrusively in the background?

AFAIK, it doesn't block here, other things continue running, even the
boot sequence. I can not check this instant, but I think I can login
while the job is running. I should be able to verify this tomorrow.

You do not say what release you are using.


The job simply calls on zypper to delete the oldest kernel after an
update.

You can verify what it does by running:

systemctl cat purge-kernels.service


I have Leap 15.3 with the splash screen turned off so that I can see
what is going on.  The script runs as part of the boot process and
*before* logging in is possible, this is obviously what Tristan sees as
well.  In my case - on my old laptop, no ssd - it delays the appearance
of the login screen by just over a minute.
No idea if this is something new, I'll often boot and then get on with
something else for a minute or two.  It *is* something I first noticed a
couple of days before Tristan reported it here.


I booted this Leap 15.3 today after a kernel update. I did:

systemd-analyze plot >bootup.svg
eog bootup.svg


And I clearly see that the boot process continues running while
purge-kernels is running (for 41 seconds in my case).

It is the service "display-manager" which waits, apparently.


You can run "systemd-analyze critical-chain", but in my case
"purge-kernels" is not listed, which I think it means it does not delay
others.


You can have a large delay if anything runs update-grub.
The large delay is caused by umount of each partition update-grub opened/mounted.



Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Tristan Miller
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 12:05 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: psychon...@nothingisreal.com (Tristan Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 14:05:12 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Dear Carlos,

On 17/04/2022 12.26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I booted this Leap 15.3 today after a kernel update. I did:

systemd-analyze plot >bootup.svg
eog bootup.svg


And I clearly see that the boot process continues running while purge-kernels is running (for 41 seconds in my case).


I'm also running Leap 15.3.  I produced an SVG plot as you suggested and I see that you're right that the boot process continues while the kernels are purged. However, it seems that multi-user.target and graphical.target aren't reached until the purge is complete.  So contrary to what you recalled in your previous message, I can't actually log in until the purge is complete.

Regards,
Tristan

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                   Tristan Miller
Free Software developer, ferret herder, logologist
              https://logological.org/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Andrew
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:10 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!iNGj/luDezKLilfl3oxwcA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Dou...@hyperspace.vogon.gov (Andrew)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:10:55 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t3mmuf$qgq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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Tristan Miller wrote:
Dear Carlos,

On 17/04/2022 12.26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I booted this Leap 15.3 today after a kernel update. I did:

systemd-analyze plot >bootup.svg
eog bootup.svg


And I clearly see that the boot process continues running while purge-kernels is running (for 41 seconds in my case).


I'm also running Leap 15.3.  I produced an SVG plot as you suggested and I see that you're right that the boot process continues while the kernels are purged. However, it seems that multi-user.target and graphical.target aren't reached until the purge is complete.  So contrary to what you recalled in your previous message, I can't actually log in until the purge is complete.

Regards,
Tristan


Carlos also says
It is the service "display-manager" which waits, apparently.

which is - functionally - what we are both saying, the system is not actually useable until the kernels have been purged.  The two of us see the boot-process as being over when we can log in.

--
This mail has been tested by https://RKIvirus.com/ and has been found to contain Covid-19. Disinfect after reading.


Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 21:37 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 23:37:27 +0200
Lines: 30
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On 2022-04-19 14:05, Tristan Miller wrote:
Dear Carlos,

On 17/04/2022 12.26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I booted this Leap 15.3 today after a kernel update. I did:

systemd-analyze plot >bootup.svg
eog bootup.svg


And I clearly see that the boot process continues running while purge-kernels is running (for 41 seconds in my case).


I'm also running Leap 15.3.  I produced an SVG plot as you suggested and I see that you're right that the boot process continues while the kernels are purged. However, it seems that multi-user.target and graphical.target aren't reached until the purge is complete.  So contrary to what you recalled in your previous message, I can't actually log in until the purge is complete.


Well, I did say in my second post that "display-manager" did not start till "purge-kernels" finished.

So, again, I suggest you bring up the issue in the mail list, because I do not know why "display-manager" waits.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
From: Andrew
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 13:52 UTC
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From: Dou...@hyperspace.vogon.gov (Andrew)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: Why does boot block for "Purge old kernels"?
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 15:52:59 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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Tristan Miller wrote:
Greetings.

Occasionally when I boot my machine, the system pauses for a minute or two with the message, "A start job is running for Purge old kernels".

If I understand correctly, purging old kernels simply means uninstalling them.  If this is the case, why is this something that boot has to block for?  I mean, once the system is up an running, I can always use zypper or rpm to manually remove old kernels.  So it's obviously something that *can* be done without interfering with my use of the machine.  I get why the bootup script might want to clean up old kernels every once in a while, but why can't it just launch a process that does this unobtrusively in the background?

Regards,
Tristan


I have just updated a kernel on my test machine, if you submitted a bug report it has not been acted upon (yet).

--
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