On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 3/27/2023 10:09 AM, Rick C wrote:
> > On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:18:15 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> >> On 3/27/2023 7:05 AM, Rick C wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 11:31:20 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> >>>> On 3/26/2023 7:25 PM, Rick C wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:25:49 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> >>>>>> On 3/25/2023 6:42 PM, George Neuner wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 18:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
> >>>>>>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Excellent Don. Now, please tell me which unit is the DCE and which is
> >>>>>>>> the DTE? Or better yet, just answer the question asked, on this
> >>>>>>>> device, which pin on the DB9 connector is the data output and which
> >>>>>>>> is the data input?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Terminal Equipment" (TE) vs "Communications Equipment" (CE).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> DTE is the computer (terminal), DCE is the modem. To adhere to the
> >>>>>>> RS-232 conventions, your external device has to be "communications
> >>>>>>> equipment".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Don explained the cables and how the signaling works. DTE transmits on
> >>>>>>> TxD, and receives on RxD. DCE does the reverse. Which physical pins
> >>>>>>> these are on depends on the form factor: DB9 or DB25.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RS-232 pinout diagrams are very easy to find. Try Google.
> >>>>>> Rick doesn't understand how the Standard is interpreted solely as
> >>>>>> "guidance", in the real world. The idea that someone ELSE could
> >>>>>> examine *his* choice of device from *his* chosen vendor and
> >>>>>> comment, in any meaningful way, suggests a naivite that's
> >>>>>> beyond laughable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The comedy here, is that both of you think I was saying anything about RS-232 being useful here, as other than a voltage level standard. I expect that of you. I don't know George so well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I was playing the game, where questions are asked, until the other person sees the absurdity of what they were saying. You still haven't figured that out.
> >>>> No, YOU haven't. I twice made the statements about the standard.
> >>>> You didn't get the hint. Instead, you assumed I would engage you
> >>>> in a pointless discussion about what the pinout *could* be.
> >>>>
> >>>> In plain english: THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE HERE CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THE DEVICE
> >>>> THAT *YOU* SELECTED. (unless they want to do the work that you seem to be
> >>>> avoiding in favor of being argumentative)
> >>>>
> >>>> You're the one who picked the device. Did you *expect* it to adhere
> >>>> to a standard? ANY standard? If so, why? If not, why not?
> >>>>
> >>>> Spend a few dollars (as you've likely spent that much in *time*)
> >>>> and buy one to examine -- if your attempts at getting answers
> >>>> from the vendor leave you distraught.
> >>>
> >>> Don, you very clearly have no understanding of the posts I have made. Please don't bother to reply until you do.
> >> I suspect it is you who don't understand what you're saying.
> >> "Or better yet, just answer the question asked, on this device, which pin on
> >> the DB9 connector is the data output and which is the data input?"
> >> I gave you a very deliberate and accurate answer to this explicit question.
> >
> > Exactly. You gave a dissertation to answer a question that has not been asked. The worst part is, you can't understand why your answer is not relevant. That's because you are doing a great job of talking, but a crap job of listening. I seriously doubt you will review the thread. Even if you do, I expect you will continue to not understand the question.
> I gave the only answer that anyone COULD give to your silly question.
> Were you hoping someone here was USING the exact same board AND had
> explored that issue in enough detail to yield a pin number? Instead
> of just "Gee, I dunno. It worked WHEN I PLUGGED IN THE CABLE!"

You still don't get it. In the post you replied to, there was a board referenced. It even gave the same general info YOU provided in response, about TXD, RXD, DTE and DCE. BUT IT DIDN'T SAY DIDDLY ABOUT WHICH PIN WAS INPUT AND WHICH WAS OUTPUT!

You just keep repeating the same stuff over, and over, without any idea of how to answer the question asked, "which pin is output"?

> And, if you DID find such a person (to have done your work for you
> so YOU wouldn't have to shell out a few bucks to do your own
> exploration), would you then have asked about some OTHER board?
>
> Or, inquired as to whether it supported XON/XOFF flow control?
>
> Or, whether the vendor supplied driver could control the direction
> of a transceiver?
>
> Or...
>
> I.e., all of the questions you should be able to answer FOR YOURSELF?
>
> You're that client who invites you to lunch to discuss a project.
> And then just wanders around trying to sort out what he actually
> *wants* -- expecting YOU to be able to read his mind. And, guarantee
> success in *his* market.
>
> Best bet, enjoy the meal. Toss him a few bones. Help yourself to
> a big slice of pie. Thank him as you depart. And, when he calls
> about starting the project a week or two later, "be unavailable".

Now you are ranting about bones. I guess you are upset by the fact that you could not answer the question, because you never understood the question.

> >> To paraphrase:
> >>
> >> "If the person you are talking to gives you a pin number, you are talking to
> >> the wrong person."
> >
> > Even though, that is what I'm asking for, a pin number. See how you fail to comprehend the question?
> See how you fail to understand the answer?
>
> Did you not understand the reference to the "box with a DB25 on it"?

Which reference? There is no DB25 connector anywhere in the system being discussed.

> >> Think about it.
> >
> > I'm trying to get you to do just that. But you are in output mode, and have ceased all input activities.
> I've already showed that I understand the problem. I've acknowledged how
> *I* have addressed the problem over the years. Do you think I would
> build "widgets" for a problem that didn't exist? Instead of just using
> an RS232 patch box?

No, you've shown a wide knowledge of RS-232 and related issues, but a complete failure of understanding the question being asked. Please go back to the original post you replied to and see what the question is.

> Clearly I've faced this issue more times than you have as I seem to have
> the skills to get to the answer I need without whining to USENET for
> someone *else* to do that homework!

LOL You are a trip. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so wrapped around the axle, even on usenet.

> >>> Thank you,
> >>
> >> Ah, Officer Rick has spoken! I;m shaking in my boots!
> >
> > Now, you are just being weird.
> Well, it was YOU who declared this to be YOUR thread and set about
> creating policy for who can and who can't post, here...

I asked you to stop posting off topic. Most people respond to that appropriately. You were trying to educate me, without understanding what I had even asked, which is not at all uncommon for you. Your posts are typically very long, somewhat rambling, nearly a stream of consciousness and a bit hard to follow. Then someone else engages with you on the same level and the thread is forever lost.

Is it any wonder that c.a.e is virtually a ghost town?

> Would you prefer to be called USENET Bouncer?

I don't care what I'm called it you leave this thread. Although, it doesn't really matter. You've pretty much ruined it for anyone looking for info on the original subject.

> >> Here's a guy who rules out "a board and a box to be assembled"...
> >> but is only making *20* of them!
> >
> > Again, you are projecting. You know virtually none of the facts, but you feel you know more about the problem than I do. Can you not understand your error?
> No, can you not see how your "Give me a cookie cuz I'm too lazy to get up
> and get it for myself" attitude comes across?
>
> I volunteered an accurate answer to a specific question that you asked.
> I previously offered up the idea of one/two-port terminal servers
> controlled by a (remotable) PC. Also, not acceptable.

Not acceptable because you know NOTHING of the problem to be solved. Why don't you ask some pertinent questions, rather than wasting 1,000 words describing the picture in your head.

> You want a box, sitting on a shelf, that says "For Rick". And,
> will probably complain of the color scheme chosen!

Depend on the color. I remember someone in one of these groups, who, when asked to recommend a router, refused saying he didn't know all the requirements such as the color. Yeah, he went on at length about clients he had who insisted he remove a router he had installed, because it was the wrong color. So now, he won''t recommend a router without knowing the user's color scheme. LOL

> >> Would plugging in a wall wart be too high of a burden, as well?
> >>
> >> What about taking it out of the packing material?
> >
> > Now you are just being silly, a silly, silly boy.
> Exactly! That's how you come across. "Mommy, can you get me
> a cookie?"
>
> "The cookie jar is right on the counter, ricky. Help yourself"
>
> "But I'm eating my lunch..."
> >> Grow the f*ck up, "ricky". By *your* admission, you're neither an
> >> engineer nor a technician. So, wander back to accounting school
> >> and juggle some numbers in a book -- MAYBE you might have a
> >> proclivity for that! Engineering? Not.
> >
> > Wow! Such a defensive attitude. Rather than ask a single question, to learn what you don't know, you insist on being silly.
> You're the one asking the question -- about something you can sort out
> for yourself. Did you recently break both arms in an auto accident?
> Are you typing with a mouthstick?

Wow. You really are twisted. I feel sorry for you.

> > So what do you think my background is, exactly?
> >
> > Err... maybe I shouldn't be feeding the troll? Or can you actually answer the question with a reply intended to communicate?
> You've not sorted out who the troll is in this thread, rick.
> Most others apparently have!
>
> How long are you going to hang around waiting for an answer that
> is more to your liking?
>
> Why not call the vendor? (use the mouthstick to dial the phone)

Which vendor? Again, you fail to understand when I mentioned the input and output, I was not actually expecting an answer. I expected anyone looking at the documentation, which the person I was replying to should have done, to realize there was no answer possible without contacting the vendor. Further, the context was the person considering doing this work for hire, in which case, I expect them to do the work of finding the hardware.

I'm sorry that your near nearsightedness prevents you from seeing beyond your desk.

I am curious, why do you continue to waste your time replying here? What is the benefit to you? Is someone paying you to twitter away your time at this?

--

Rick C.

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