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computers / comp.theory / Re: Anyone wanting an actual honestly dialogue on the proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct

Re: Anyone wanting an actual honestly dialogue on the proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct

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Subject: Re: Anyone wanting an actual honestly dialogue on the proof that
H(P,P)==0 is correct
Newsgroups: comp.theory
References: <HNidndugKOWGvpH8nZ2dnUU7-fXNnZ2d@giganews.com>
From: Rich...@Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 20:43:16 -0500
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 by: Richard Damon - Fri, 6 Aug 2021 01:43 UTC

On 8/5/21 12:42 PM, olcott wrote:
> The x86utm operating system was created so that the halting problem
> could be examined concretely in the high level language of C. H is a
> function written in C that analyzes the x86 machine language execution
> trace of other functions written in C. H recognizes simple cases of
> infinite recursion and infinite loops. The conventional halting problem
> proof counter-example template is shown to simply be an input that does
> not halt.
>
> H simulates its input with an x86 emulator until it determines that its
> input would never halt. As soon as H recognizes that its input would
> never halt it stops simulating this input and returns 0. For inputs that
> do halt H acts exactly as if it was an x86 emulator and simply runs its
> input to completion and then returns 1.
>
>    In computability theory, the halting problem is the problem
>    of determining, from a description of an arbitrary computer
>    program and an input, whether the program will finish running,
>    or continue to run forever.
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
>
> Simulating partial halt decider H correctly decides that P(P) never
> halts (V2)
>
> int Simulate(u32 P, u32 I)
> {
>   ((int(*)(int))P)(I);
>   return 1;
> }
>
> // Simplified Linz Ĥ (Linz:1990:319)
> // Strachey(1965) CPL translated to C
> void P(u32 x)
> {
>   if (H(x, x))
>     HERE: goto HERE;
> }
>
> int main()
> {
>   Output("Input_Halts = ", Simulate((u32)P, (u32)P));
> }
>
> _Simulate()
> [00000ce2](01)  55          push ebp
> [00000ce3](02)  8bec        mov ebp,esp
> [00000ce5](03)  8b450c      mov eax,[ebp+0c]
> [00000ce8](01)  50          push eax            // push 2nd Param
> [00000ce9](03)  ff5508      call dword [ebp+08] // call 1st Param
> [00000cec](03)  83c404      add esp,+04
> [00000cef](05)  b801000000  mov eax,00000001
> [00000cf4](01)  5d          pop ebp
> [00000cf5](01)  c3          ret
> Size in bytes:(0020) [00000cf5]
>
> _P()
> [00000d02](01)  55          push ebp
> [00000d03](02)  8bec        mov ebp,esp
> [00000d05](03)  8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00000d08](01)  50          push eax       // push 2nd Param
> [00000d09](03)  8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00000d0c](01)  51          push ecx       // push 1st Param
> [00000d0d](05)  e870feffff  call 00000b82  // call H
> [00000d12](03)  83c408      add esp,+08
> [00000d15](02)  85c0        test eax,eax
> [00000d17](02)  7402        jz 00000d1b
> [00000d19](02)  ebfe        jmp 00000d19
> [00000d1b](01)  5d          pop ebp
> [00000d1c](01)  c3          ret
> Size in bytes:(0027) [00000d1c]
>
> _main()
> [00000d22](01)  55          push ebp
> [00000d23](02)  8bec        mov ebp,esp
> [00000d25](05)  68020d0000  push 00000d02 // push P
> [00000d2a](05)  68020d0000  push 00000d02 // push P
> [00000d2f](05)  e8aeffffff  call 00000ce2 // call Simulate
> [00000d34](03)  83c408      add esp,+08
> [00000d37](01)  50          push eax
> [00000d38](05)  6823030000  push 00000323
> [00000d3d](05)  e810f6ffff  call 00000352 // call Output
> [00000d42](03)  83c408      add esp,+08
> [00000d45](02)  33c0        xor eax,eax
> [00000d47](01)  5d          pop ebp
> [00000d48](01)  c3          ret
> Size in bytes:(0039) [00000d48]
>
>     machine   stack     stack     machine     assembly
>     address   address   data      code        language
>     ========  ========  ========  =========   =============
> ...[00000d22][00101851][00000000] 55          push ebp
> ...[00000d23][00101851][00000000] 8bec        mov ebp,esp
> ...[00000d25][0010184d][00000d02] 68020d0000  push 00000d02  // push P
> ...[00000d2a][00101849][00000d02] 68020d0000  push 00000d02  // push P
> ...[00000d2f][00101845][00000d34] e8aeffffff  call 00000ce2  // call
> Simulate
> ...[00000ce2][00101841][00101851] 55          push ebp
> ...[00000ce3][00101841][00101851] 8bec        mov ebp,esp
> ...[00000ce5][00101841][00101851] 8b450c      mov eax,[ebp+0c]
> ...[00000ce8][0010183d][00000d02] 50          push eax
> Calling:_P()
> ...[00000ce9][00101839][00000cec] ff5508      call dword [ebp+08]
> ...[00000d02][00101835][00101841] 55          push ebp
> ...[00000d03][00101835][00101841] 8bec        mov ebp,esp
> ...[00000d05][00101835][00101841] 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000d08][00101831][00000d02] 50          push eax
> ...[00000d09][00101831][00000d02] 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000d0c][0010182d][00000d02] 51          push ecx
> ...[00000d0d][00101829][00000d12] e870feffff  call 00000b82  // call H
>
> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation at Machine Address:d02
> ...[00000d02][002118f1][002118f5] 55          push ebp
> ...[00000d03][002118f1][002118f5] 8bec        mov ebp,esp
> ...[00000d05][002118f1][002118f5] 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000d08][002118ed][00000d02] 50          push eax       // push P
> ...[00000d09][002118ed][00000d02] 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000d0c][002118e9][00000d02] 51          push ecx       // push P
> ...[00000d0d][002118e5][00000d12] e870feffff  call 00000b82  // call H
> ...[00000d02][0025c319][0025c31d] 55          push ebp
> ...[00000d03][0025c319][0025c31d] 8bec        mov ebp,esp
> ...[00000d05][0025c319][0025c31d] 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000d08][0025c315][00000d02] 50          push eax       // push P
> ...[00000d09][0025c315][00000d02] 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000d0c][0025c311][00000d02] 51          push ecx       // push P
> ...[00000d0d][0025c30d][00000d12] e870feffff  call 00000b82  // call H
> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>
> ...[00000d12][00101835][00101841] 83c408      add esp,+08
> ...[00000d15][00101835][00101841] 85c0        test eax,eax
> ...[00000d17][00101835][00101841] 7402        jz 00000d1b
> ...[00000d1b][00101839][00000cec] 5d          pop ebp
> ...[00000d1c][0010183d][00000d02] c3          ret
> ...[00000cec][00101841][00101851] 83c404      add esp,+04
> ...[00000cef][00101841][00101851] b801000000  mov eax,00000001
> ...[00000cf4][00101845][00000d34] 5d          pop ebp
> ...[00000cf5][00101849][00000d02] c3          ret
> ...[00000d34][00101851][00000000] 83c408      add esp,+08
> ...[00000d37][0010184d][00000001] 50          push eax
> ...[00000d38][00101849][00000323] 6823030000  push 00000323
> ---[00000d3d][00101849][00000323] e810f6ffff  call 00000352 // call Output
> Input_Halts = 1
> ...[00000d42][00101851][00000000] 83c408      add esp,+08
> ...[00000d45][00101851][00000000] 33c0        xor eax,eax
> ...[00000d47][00101855][00100000] 5d          pop ebp
> ...[00000d48][00101859][000000bc] c3          ret
> Number_of_User_Instructions(48)
> Number of Instructions Executed(23742)
>
> Because H only acts as a pure simulator of its input until after its
> halt status decision has been made it has no behavior that can possibly
> effect the behavior of its input. Because of this H screens out its own
> address range in every execution trace that it examines. This is why we
> never see any instructions of H in any execution trace after an input
> calls H.
>
> Halting is provable on the basis that a pure simulation reaches the
> final state.
> P reaches its final state.
>
> Never Halting is provable on the basis that the final state can never be
> reached.
>
> (a) We know that the x86 execution trace of the simulation of P(P) is a
> pure simulation by comparing it to the source-code of P.  (also see the
> first paragraph).
>
> (b) We know that whether or not H aborts its simulation of its input to
> H(P,P) that this input would never reach its final state (proved by the
> x86 execution trace shown above).
>
> Because there are no control flow instructions in the execution trace
> that would escape the infinite recursion the execution trace proves that
> a pure simulation of the above input would never reach its final state.
>
> (c) Because input to H(P,P) would never reach its final state we know
> that it never halts.
>
> (d) Because it never halts we know that H(P,P) correctly returns 0
> indicating that its input never halts.
>
> If there is no error in (a)(b)(c)(d) then we know H(P,P)==0 is the
> correct halt status.
>
> There may be a very high tendency to reject this latter claim
> out-of-hand without sufficient review through the human fallibility of
> bias. If no error exists in steps (a)(b)(c)(d) then we know that
> H(P,P)==0 is the correct halt status of the input to the input to H(P,P).
>
> If P(P) halts and H(P,P)==0 is the correct halt status of the input to
> the input to H(P,P) then we have a paradox rather than a contradiction.
>
> The full paper is published here:
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351947980_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation
>
>

BOGUS. All this already disproven. UNSOUND logic from an UNSOUND mind.

PO refuses to actually respond to rebuttals, so this is just a bunch of
POOP.

SubjectRepliesAuthor
o Anyone wanting an actual honestly dialogue on the proof that H(P,P)==0 is correc

By: olcott on Thu, 5 Aug 2021

72olcott
server_pubkey.txt

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