Den 2021-10-22 kl. 09:37, skrev BGB:
> On 10/18/2021 2:10 PM, JimBrakefield wrote:
>> On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 5:11:44 AM UTC-5, skybuck2000 wrote:
>>> Current hardware analysis for Skybuck Flying:
>>>
>>> Tower PC:
>>> Socket 939 motherboard
>>> NVIDIA NFORCE4 chipset
>>> AMD X2 Dual Core (2 x 2.0 GHz) = 4.0 GHz total gigahertz ("horse power")
>>> CORSAIR DDR1 4 x 1 Gigabytes = 4 GigaBytes total ram.
>>> WINFAST PCI Express 1.0 = 250 MegaBytes per second = system speed
>>> HITACHI SATA harddisks = Roughly 100 Megabytes per second peak or 2
>>> kilobytes per second worst case performance maybe even less.
>>> NVIDIA GT 1030 2 GigaBytes = silent = low heat = slow = fast enough
>>> for 720p gaming.
>>>
>>> Laptop PC:
>>> Intel Ibex Peak chipset
>>> Intel I5 Core (2 x 2.67 GHZ) = 5.34 total gigahertz plus little bit
>>> more thanks to hyperthreading.
>>> DDR3 6 GB
>>> PCI Express 2.0
>>> SATA harddisks = 100 megabytes/sec
>>> Mobility Radeon HD 5650/5750 1 GB
>>> USB 2.0
>>>
>>> Abstract analysis:
>>>
>>> Tower PC : 4,00 GHZ CPU (2x2.00GHZ), 4 GB MAIN RAM, 3.2 GB/SEC MAIN
>>> RAM, 400 MT/SEC MAIN RAM, 250 MB/SEC SYSTEM, 100 MB/SEC STORAGE, USB
>>> 2.0 24 MB/sec
>>> Laptop PC: 5.34 GHZ CPU (2x2.67GHZ), 6 GB MAIN RAM, 8.5 GB/SEC MAIN
>>> RAM, 1066 MT/SEC MAIN RAM, 500 MB/SEC SYSTEM, 100 MB/SEC STORAGE, USB
>>> 2.0 24 MB/sec
>>>
>>> Tower PC Continued : 2 GB GRAPHICS RAM, 23.49 GPixel/sec 35.23
>>> GTexels/sec, 48.0 GB/sec GPU RAM, 100 MB/SEC network
>>> Laptop PC Continued: 1 GB GRAPHICS RAM, 3.60 GPixel/sec, 9.00
>>> GTexels/sec, 25.6 GB/sec GPU RAM, 10 MB/SEC network
>>>
>>> Usage reports/experience:
>>>
>>> Tower CPU most likely too slow to run newer games.
>>> Laptop CPU still sufficient to run newer games except the latest and
>>> greatest, should also be replaced for bigger games.
>>>
>>> Tower RAM is insufficient to run latest games and also struggles to
>>> keep websites in memory.
>>> Laptop RAM is also on the low side when consulting web manuals or
>>> game manuals/information/tutorials and gaming at same time.
>>>
>>> Main RAM on both PC has troubles switching and multi tasking, most
>>> likely also caused by disk paging and shortage of RAM capacity.
>>>
>>> RAM performance is noticeable slow on both PCs when switching RAM
>>> loaded applications and screens could be better.
>>>
>>> System bandwidth is incredibly low and is also very much noticeable
>>> during multi device usage, harddisk, internet, downloading, usb
>>> disks, multi tasking, alt-tabbing, graphics full screen switching
>>>
>>> Storage speed is incredibly low and to the point of being obnoxious
>>> as hell, during all kinds of loading, webbing, page file swapping,
>>> gaming. For video and torrenting it is sufficient. Severly impacts
>>> multi tasking, especially when low on RAM which is almost always.
>>>
>>> USB speed is low but sufficient for blueray video watching, it is
>>> insufficient for running external operating systems and is barely
>>> sufficient for gaming, long load times !
>>>
>>> Graphics RAM capacity is sufficient to run all games, except perhaps
>>> the very latest like cyberpunk 2077 have not tried.
>>>
>>> Tower PC pixel and texel fill rate seems to be sufficient to run
>>> latest doom at 720p modest resolution 1280x1024 though it might also
>>> still be too slow to run comfortable, perhaps 15 to 20 fps perhaps
>>> higher, some slow fps could also be caused by slow cpu.
>>> Laptop Pixel and texel fill rate is enough for 2D games and world of
>>> warships and battlefield 3 for anything else especially anything
>>> recent it's way too slow, even at low resolution formula 1,
>>> terminator, comanche, rummble boxing, predator hunting ground all run
>>> incredibly slow
>>>
>>> Tower PC Instruction set: Cannot run windows 10 and some games like
>>> beyondsky or whatever it was called, can funny enough still run
>>> predator hounting grounds.
>>> Laptop Instruction set: seems to crash in rumble boxing.
>>>
>>> Tower Graphics instruction set/technology: (GT 1030 is a recent
>>> graphics card, tower is upgradeable in this sense) probably
>>> sufficient to run any recent game.
>>> Laptop Graphics instruction set/technology: crashes in star wars
>>> battlefront 2, lack of directx 11 features or shading features, may
>>> also be incomplete driver ? Also vulkan does not run and thus some
>>> vulkan games cannot be played, like latest doom.
>>>
>>> Laptop 10 MB/Sec network speed is sufficient for gaming and
>>> downloading blueray movies without reasonable time, however 100
>>> MB/sec is recommendable to shorten download time from 1 hour to a few
>>> minutes for 20+ GB blueray movies.
>>> Laptop 10 MB/Sec might be a little bit slow for website
>>> browsing/multi-tabbing, not sure if web browser is limited by network
>>> speed in this regards.
>>> Laptop 10 MB/Sec is sufficient for youtubing.
>>>
>>> Low CPU core count is insufficient for the emerging emulated
>>> synthesizer trend. Multi-core/many-core will have big impact on music
>>> production.
>>>
>>> Recommendation for new computer system:
>>>
>>> Top priority is to maximize system bandwidth for smooth multi-tasking
>>> when using multiple devices: PCI Express 5.0 is must have technology.
>>> Second priority is to maximize system ram to help with smooth
>>> multi-tasking and avoiding costly page swapping operations.
>>> Second priority is also to maximize system ram performance to help
>>> with smooth multi-tasking and avoiding switching stalls.
>>> Third priority is to reduce loading times by switching to solid state
>>> disks, however top performance can crash back to harddisk levels of
>>> performance hence why ram maximization is second priority.
>>> Third priority is also affected by pci express hence why pci express
>>> is top priority.
>>> Fourth priority is smooth graphics: switching to air-cooled graphics
>>> card/gpu with big bandwidth/data bus is recommendable however
>>> graphics cards must be easily cleanable to prevent damaging
>>> motherboard from overheat.
>>> Fiveth priority is latest instruction set to be future ready for
>>> future software.
>>> Sixth priority is sufficient CPU speed for smooth operation of
>>> software processes.
>>> Seventh priority is maximize USB speeds for external harddisk and
>>> future solid state disks for faster loading times. USB 4.0 is
>>> adviseable for pro-longed computer usefullness and extensibility.
>>> Eight priority is to maximize network speed for future transfers to
>>> other computers or internet however other technologies can be used
>>> like USB.
>>>
>>> Based on these assessments the following conclusions can be taken:
>>>
>>> PCI Express 5.0 is an absolute must have ! Anything lower is a waste
>>> of money.
>>> USB 4.0 is an absolute must have ! Anything lower is potential waste
>>> of future money.
>>> DDR 5 will help with faster switching and multi tasking very advisible.
>>> MAXIMUM RAM CAPACITY IS ESSENTIAL FOR SMOOTH MULTI TASKING especially
>>> since no storage technology can truely sustain high speeds, except
>>> NETWORK.
>>> MAXIMUM RAM CAPACITY IS ESSENTIAL TO BE ABLE TO RUN FUTURE
>>> SOFTWARE/GAMES.
>>> Upgradeable Graphics Card is to be preferred, this may rule-out any
>>> laptop which cannot be upgraded, though there are some and maybe also
>>> external usb graphics cards.
>>> Laptop is easier to clean than PC, this is major drawback of PC, PCs
>>> are very damage prone during cleaning.
>>> Total System performance can be slow/impacted by
>>> heat,overheat,throttling extreme/good cooling solution needed to cool
>>> latest computer technologies.
>>> Capacitators on motherboards are apperently prone to failing. Is it
>>> possible to have better/bigger capacitators on motherboard for long
>>> life time to extremely long life time ? Failed capacitators can lead
>>> to cooling fans not spinning.
>>> Extra watt capacity on power supply will make power supply work last
>>> hard plus extra capacity for additional devices.
>>> Downside of 1000+ watt computer is currently increasing energy costs
>>> world wide.
>>> Midi limited to 32 channels, so far music studied uses 4 to 8 to 16
>>> channels.
>>>
>>> Leading to following future system design:
>>> 8 to 16 core CPU should be sufficient for modest to larger midi music
>>> production, for bigger productions 32 cores is recommendable.
>>> One or two or four cores with 5.0 GHZ is recommedable for single or
>>> dual or quad threaded games.
>>> Some games can benefit from multi/many cores and thus higher core
>>> count will make PC ready for future games.
>>> Windows does not run well with 64 cores+smt or even more cores. 32
>>> cores with smt seems to be the sweet spot for now, however this may
>>> change in future.
>>>
>>> Leading to following CPU conclusion:
>>>
>>> 32-core CPU + SMT for a total of 64 threaded CPU should be optimal
>>> for current windows versions.
>>> Maximizing CPU core speed based on 32-core CPU is therefore
>>> recommendable, also to save some costs.
>>> PCI Express 5.0 is must have.
>>> DDR5 is smart investment for future, can replace memory in future for
>>> faster modules.
>>> USB 4.0 is smart investment for future.
>>> Motherboard with maximum RAM capacity is smart investment for future.
>>> 64 GB main ram should be absolute minimum ram for todays systems,
>>> however for future upgrades 1 to 2 terrabytes of ram addressing is
>>> highly recommedable and desireable.
>>> ^ This will give some head room/breathing space for current software
>>> applications, games, development environments and web browsers, it
>>> will be insufficient within a few years giving current software trends.
>>>
>>> Monitor resolution is not so important, except dot pitch of pixel,
>>> tiny pixels are to be preferred for butter smooth visuals.
>>> High resolution monitors are overrated for gaming purposes, male
>>> vision is limited to in front/focus.
>>> Wide screen monitors are overrated and is slight waste of money
>>> except for development purposes, however scrolling the desktop could
>>> solve this problem, windows has no scrolling desktop a major
>>> oversight of Microsoft company.
>>> Extreme wide screen monitors are a total waste of money, except if
>>> you want to experience "virtual reality" being inside of it all. It
>>> will incur a heavy graphics cards investment, plus heavy cooling
>>> solution, plus extra electricity costs.
>>> However the trend is towards 4K monitors, lower resolution support
>>> will become scarce in future, it is recommedable to buy a
>>> large-resolution monitor for future compability and work station usage.
>>>
>>> HDMI is still the best audio technology out there, especially for 7.1
>>> surround sound, any gamer should have a 7.x surround sound system,
>>> also blueray movies come nowadays with 7.1 surround sound which is
>>> enjoyable and immersive.
>>>
>>> HDMI might be insufficient for 4K display technology, however there
>>> is hdmi 2.0 ? Display port is also mentions, not sure which is the
>>> latest and greatest
>>> in display bandwidth, this is an oversight of this document for now,
>>> it's still rapidly changing and developing, thunderbolt/usb 4.0 ? is
>>> also mentioned
>>> as a possible display technology. If based on graphics cards
>>> technology than can be replaced in future to benefit from new display
>>> technologies.
>>>
>>> Good viewing angles for monitors are recommended to view videos on
>>> screen/monitor from any angle without having to adjust screen angle.
>>> OLED seems to be latest and greatest display technology for this, but
>>> there is burn-in-risk, therefore not convinced that this is a good
>>> thing. This could
>>> be main reason why OLED is rare for computer displays. This is where
>>> PC has adventage, monitor can be swapped in for another one if
>>> unhappy about monitor or want
>>> to buy something better, it is recommendable to have a cheap backup
>>> monitor, this backup monitor could be used to try different display
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> Audio chips nowadays seem integrated onto motherboards, this makes
>>> choice of motherboard very important to have 7.1 audio technology,
>>> however most motherboards
>>> dont have it, however HDMI via graphics cards is possible but then
>>> graphics card must have HDMI connector on the back, this might
>>> change/become unavailable
>>> in future, for this reason it would be recommendable to have
>>> additional pci express slots available to mount future audio cards or
>>> other future devices.
>>>
>>> This means motherboard should have at the very least 1 pci express
>>> slot for video card, though a cpu+gpu=apu unit could free up one
>>> slot, 1 pci express slot
>>> for audio card, 1 pci express slot for futuristic network technology,
>>> 1 pci express slot for futuristic usb technology, 1 pci express slot
>>> for futuristic device.
>>>
>>> Leading to a bare minimum of 5 pci express slots, preferably 6 for
>>> two futuristic devices.
>>>
>>> They key to building a PC which is ready for the future is in DDR5
>>> and especially PCI Express 5.0 and also number of lanes per slot for
>>> the devices.
>>>
>>> PCI Express 5.0 has total bandwith of 126 GB for a 16 lane, basically
>>> 8 GB/lane. (32x lanes are also possible but is rare in practice).
>>>
>>> For futuristic graphics card it is preferred to have a 16x lane slot
>>> For futuristic usb card it is preferred to have a 16x lane slot.
>>> For futuristic network card it is preferred to have a 16x lane slot.
>>> For future audio card a 1x lane slot should be more than sufficient.
>>> For additional futuristic devices 8x lanes should provide some
>>> bandwidth to give these new devices a try.
>>>
>>> Leading to a motherboard pci express slot design of:
>>> 16x
>>> 16x
>>> 16x
>>> 1x
>>> 8x
>>> 8x
>>>
>>> For a total ammount of 65 pci lanes for slots alone.
>>>
>>> I also want some fast solid state disks, at least 4 should be
>>> mounteable in motherboard.
>>>
>>> Apperently m2 slots are 4 pci lanes so this would mean another 16 pci
>>> slots.
>>>
>>> For a total of 76 pci lanes.
>>>
>>> Motherboard should also have at least 4 sata ports for big fat
>>> harddisk support/storage solutions.
>>>
>>> I am willing to sacrifice one 16x pci slot maybe even two to reduce
>>> this number by 32 and stick with build in usb and ethernet.
>>>
>>> Thus this could reduce 76 to 76-32 = 44 pci lanes.
>>>
>>> The only current processor technology that comes close to this number
>>> AMD threadripper or Intel X/Skylake/Cascade.
>>>
>>> Skylake had many security issues, threadripper has a bit more lanes.
>>>
>>> So my final conclusion and hope is the following:
>>>
>>> A threadripper release with the following properties/chipset design:
>>>
>>> 32-cores with smt, 5.0 GHz or more would be super, 4.0 GHz minimum
>>> would be cool. 32 = 160 GHz or 128 GHz (a bit on low side ;))
>>> or 64 cores without smt, 5.0 GHz. = 320 GHz <- very interesting ! ;)
>>> if windows problems fixed than more could be interesting too. But for
>>> now 32 seems to be sweet spot. Also cost-wise is more interesting and
>>> reasonable.
>>> DDR5 memory for speed.
>>> 2 terrabytes of addressible memory on motherboard
>>> PCI Express 5.0 is an absolute must have anything else will be
>>> considered "old garbage". Give me any good reason why not to go full
>>> PCI Express 5.0 on motherboard
>>> designs ? Costs ? Heat ?
>>> Latest build-in USB to try and prevent pci lane usage if possible,
>>> connect it via special way ?
>>> Latest ethernet build in to try and prevent pci lane usage if possible.
>>> 4 sata ports
>>> 4 solid state disk ports whatever the latest and fastest tech might be.
>>> 8 channel memory to be preferred for maximum memory capacity.
>>> 2 10 gigabit network ports, preferably 100 gigabit if possible, at
>>> least one would be very nice.
>>> HDMI for audio to external receiver would be very nice.
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>> Skybuck.
>>
>> More and more applications (FPGA tools, applications built from
>> source) are recommending 32GB RAM.
>> And a flash drive makes a world of difference in load times.
>>
>
> My PC has 48GB of RAM and another 200GB worth of pagefile space on an SSD.
>
> Holds up reasonably well for the most part.
>
> If one has a MOBO with an M.2 slot (mine does not) in theory they could
> get an extra fast M.2 SSD to use mostly as for the pagefile.
>

I stopped using swap partitions/files a few years ago. I found that any
time I get into a situation that the swap area is actually used, things
get so slow that the machine is not really useful. I mean, it would
probably be OK if the machine performance went down to 20% when the swap
is used, but in reality it's more like a grinding halt.

I very rarely miss the swap (perhaps once a year I set up a swap file in
order to pull off some odd task). Not sure if the situation is different
on Windows. I'm on Linux (32 GB RAM) - which may go easier on memory
usage over all?.

>
> Most of the time, the RAM mostly gets eaten up by Firefox, but
> occasionally if I rebuild GCC or LLVM from source, it gets pushed to its
> limits (and this is where having 200GB or so of swap space comes in
> handy...).
>
>
> Otherwise, yeah, I have gone and sorta gotten around to working on
> implementing the 96-bit XMOV extensions for BJX2 (actually useful or
> not, still TBD).
>
> Turns out that extending the virtual address space to 96 bits was
> actually a little cheaper than I was expecting (in terms of both
> resource costs and timing).
>
> Not really sure what to say about it, at the moment, apart from noting
> that this address space will be __huge... Nowhere __near the reach of
> the default pointer size, a bit of a __far cry actually...
>
> Anyone who remembers MS-DOS or Win16 will probably know what I am
> getting at here...
> Yeah...