Hi Adam,

>>> Now that I've glanced at control.ctl again, two other unmanaged
>>> hierarchies are listed:
>
>>> it-alt.*
>>> oesterreich.*
>
>> While looking at making the change in the web pages, I see we did not
>> speak about other alternative hierarchies.
>
> I had simply noticed it-alt.* and oesterreich.* in rone's unified
> control.clt and your generated list. I don't have first hand knowledge.

You're one of the most knowledgeable about Usenet hierarchies, that's
why I asked. :)

>> Should no.alt.* and nl-alt.* also considered as "unmanaged" hierarchies?
>> They both have an associated PGP key but I do not know what is the
>> policy to create a newsgroup? Is it intended after any demand of
>> someone and a signed control article is then sent, or is there a
>> validation by a sort of Board?
>
> I cannot guess what the policies are, but if the control messages
> use a PGP key, even if there is some informality about adding a group to
> checkgroups, I'd call that "managed", given that the proponent would
> never send the newgroup message himself. The keyholder has got to be
> considered to be the hierarchy manager for this purpose.
>
> This has the advantage that there can be checkgroups issued regularly,
> an impossibility in truly unmanaged hierarchies.
>
> If there's a checkgroups, that provides satisfactory evidence of
> hierarchy management. Similarly, a PGP key provides satisfactory
> evidence of hierarchy management.

Agreed.

> But if the proponent and not the hierarchy administrator issues newgroup
> messages in de.alt.* that would never include a PGP key, that requires
> a comment.

I believe it is the case.

For instance, the last de.alt.comm.iphone+ipad+co created in 2012:
https://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control/de/de.alt.comm.iphone+ipad+co.gz

Message-ID:
<newgroup-dac.iphone+ipad+co-20120518@thorongil.babylonsounds.com>
From: Simon Paquet <[snipped]>
Control: newgroup de.alt.comm.iphone+ipad+co
Newsgroups: de.alt.admin,de.alt.fan.ipod
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 12:27:03 +0200

de.alt.comm.iphone+ipad+co is an unmoderated newsgroup, it has been
discussed in de.alt.admin and there was no significant protest.

Bitte richten Sie die unmoderierte Newsgroup de.alt.iphone+ipad+co ein.
Ueber die Einrichtung wurde in de.alt.admin diskutiert und es gab
keinen heftigen Protest.

For your newsgroups file:
de.alt.comm.iphone+ipad+co Apples mobile Geraete und ihre Software.

And afterwards, Thomas takes this newsgroup into account when sending
checkgroups for the de.* hierarchy.
And he also cleans up no longer used groups in de.alt.* when appropriate.
That's the sort of things we could mention in a revived "hierarchy
notes" file that I could display along with hierarchy information.

> I would recommend against listing no.alt.*, nl-alt.*, and de.alt.* as
> unmanaged.

Noted. Thanks for your motivated reasons. I agree with you.

BTW, I've added it-alt.* and oesterreich.* in the list of unmanaged
hierarchies:
http://usenet.trigofacile.com/hierarchies/index.py?status=unmanaged

--
Julien ÉLIE

« Le chemin n'est pas difficile, c'est le difficile qui est le chemin. »
(Kierkegaard)