On 2/17/22 10:30 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 2/17/2022 9:12 PM, Python wrote:
>> olcott wrote:
>>> On 2/17/2022 9:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 2/17/22 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 2/17/2022 12:16 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 07:00:26 -0500
>>>>>> Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/17/22 12:36 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/16/2022 11:33 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/16/2022 10:54 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/16/22 11:22 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/16/2022 10:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/16/22 11:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/16/2022 9:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every simulating halt decider that must abort the simulation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of its input to prevent its infinite simulation correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> transitions to its reject state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRONG. You aren't following the right definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Try to actually PROVE your statement.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Try to prove that a baby kitten is an animal and not the windows
>>>>>>>>>>> of an office building. It is all in the simple meaning of the
>>>>>>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RED HERRING.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You just don't understand the difference betweeen FORMAL logic
>>>>>>>>>> systems and informal ones.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You have FAILED, but are too dumb to know it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation
>>>>>>>>>>> (V3)
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358009319_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V3
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your monument to your stupidity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not ONE bit of formal prpof.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> FAIL.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe you can convince yourzelf that you have proven something,
>>>>>>>>>> but if you want anyone who means anything to agree with you, you
>>>>>>>>>> have a VERY long wait.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think that you understand this deep in your heart, which is why
>>>>>>>>>> you just peddle your garbage on forums that don't require peer
>>>>>>>>>> review to make statements.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Every simulating halt decider that must abort the simulation of
>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>> input to prevent its infinite simulation correctly transitions to
>>>>>>>>> its reject state.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You all know that what I say is self-evidently true.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The fact that no counter-example exists proves that I am correct.
>>>>>>>>> The fact that no counter-example exists proves that I am correct.
>>>>>>>>> The fact that no counter-example exists proves that I am correct.
>>>>>>>>> The fact that no counter-example exists proves that I am correct.
>>>>>>>>> The fact that no counter-example exists proves that I am correct.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Example:
>>>>>>>> A simulating halt decider that must abort the simulation of its
>>>>>>>> input to prevent its infinite simulation where this input halts on
>>>>>>>> its own without being aborted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about our H and the H" built from it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have shown the H must abort its simulation of H" or H will never
>>>>>>> halt. That is accepted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BUT, When we look at the actual behavoir of H <H"> we see that we
>>>>>>> have the following trace:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We start at H".Q0 <H">
>>>>>>> We go to H".Qx <H"> <H">
>>>>>>> since H".Qx has a copy of H at it, and we have said that H has
>>>>>>> supposedly correctly decided that H" <H"> is a non-halting
>>>>>>> computation, and thus aborts its simulation of its input and goes to
>>>>>>> H.Qn, we know that at  H" will go to H".Qn
>>>>>>> When H" goes to H".Qn, it Halts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> THus we have shown that H" <H"> is non-halting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thus we have shown that H <H"> <H"> was wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thus we HAVE the counter example that you claim does not exist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> H is WRONG about H <H"> <H"> because if H goes to H.Qn for this
>>>>>>> input, BY DEFINITION, it means that the simple running opf H"
>>>>>>> applied
>>>>>>> to <H"> must never halt, but we have just shown that BECAUSE H <H">
>>>>>>> <H"> goes to H.Qn, that H"<H"> will also go to H".Qn and Halt, and
>>>>>>> thus H has violated its requirements, and thus is not correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FAIL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have just shown that you don't understand anything about formal
>>>>>>> logic or how to prove something.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A claim that because someone hasn't produced a counter example means
>>>>>>> your statement must be true is just plain unsond logic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TTo claim something follows, 'by the meaning of the words' and not
>>>>>>> being able to show the actual FORMAL definitions being used to make
>>>>>>> that claim, is just unsound logic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FORMAL LOGIC doesn't accept crude rhetorical arguments, but only
>>>>>>> formal step by step proofs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All you have done is PROVED that you don't understand what you are
>>>>>>> doing, and you don't understand how to use formal logic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is sort of understandable since you have revealed that you goal
>>>>>>> is just to try to establish an Epistemological statement, which
>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>> even a field of "Formal Logic', but Philosophy, so if that is the
>>>>>>> field you are used to talking in, you just don't have a
>>>>>>> background to
>>>>>>> handle Formal Logic, which Computation Theory uses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, you have just FAILED to understand what you need to do to show
>>>>>>> something in COmputation Theory, which also shows that you don't
>>>>>>> really understand Epistimology, as you clearly don't undstand the
>>>>>>> concept of the Knowing of the Truth of Propositions, the idea of
>>>>>>> actual 'Facts'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FAIL.
>>>>>> Have you really got nothing better to do with your time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> According to medical science I have terminal cancer with little
>>>>> time left. I intend my HP proof rebuttal to be my legacy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since you already agreed that the pathological self-reference of
>>>>> the halting problem proofs makes these proof illegitimate I have no
>>>>> idea why you would be reversing course now.
>>>>
>>>> Excpe that you HAVEN'T shown the proofs to be illegitimate.
>>>
>>> Here is Flibble's reply:
>>
>> Flibble is a well known crank and troll.
>>
>> You are wasting your time acting as a crank and looking for support
>> from other cranks.
>>
>
> I have boiled the error of the incompleteness theorem down to a single
> simple sentence. Try and find a single error of substance in my paper:
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333907915_Proof_that_Wittgenstein_is_correct_about_Godel
>
>
> Even a bot can be a mere naysayer it doesn't even take a moron.
>

Your logic is incorrect because you assume your conclusion as a premise.

You use the WRONG definition of Truth, and assume that Truth can only be
something that is proven, and then from that try to prove that Truth is
only something that csn be proven.

This is incorrect, and thus your whole arguement is invalid.

For example, in mathematics, there are a number of statements that must
either be True of False, there is no possible middle ground, but these
statements have not been shown to be provable or disprovable. An example
of this is the 3x+1 problem.

Given any finite integer x. Repeatedly iterate the algorithm, that if x
is odd, the next number in the sequence is 3x+1, if x is even, then next
number is x/2.

The conjeture is that ALL numbers will eventually in finite time reach
the value 1, and the infinite loop 1, 4, 2, 1, ...

This conjecture MUST be either True of False, there is no possible
middle ground. No proof of this conjecture has been found, nor any
counter example found even though numbers upt to a VERY large size have
been tested.

This appears to be, at least for now, unprovable;.

By your logic, we are not allowed to say this problem must be either
True of False, because to do so admits a Truth that can't be proven (or
at least has totally defined proof so far).