On 4/12/22 11:19 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 4/12/2022 8:06 AM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 4/11/2022 8:02 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/11/2022 6:55 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/10/2022 7:05 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/10/2022 4:18 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The truth is not determined by who does or does not agree with
>>>>>>>>>> something.  But to find the truth of the matter you must first
>>>>>>>>>> stop
>>>>>>>>>> talking literal nonsense.  The arguments to H (what you call the
>>>>>>>>>> "input") are two pointers.  What does simulating two pointers
>>>>>>>>>> mean?
>>>>>>>>>> What you mean, I hope, is simulating calling the first pointer
>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>> second as it's argument.  That simulation, according to you,
>>>>>>>>>> will halt
>>>>>>>>>> (or "reach it's final state" in your flamboyant, sciencey,
>>>>>>>>>> language).
>>>>>>>>>> It will halt because the direct call P(P) halts.  Everything
>>>>>>>>>> here halts
>>>>>>>>>> (according to you).  That's why H is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You simply are ignoring the actual execution trace that
>>>>>>>>> conclusively
>>>>>>>>> proves that the simulated input to H cannot possibly reach its
>>>>>>>>> final
>>>>>>>>> own state.
>>>>>>>> The traces that matter are the one of P(P) halting (you made the
>>>>>>>> mistake
>>>>>>>> of posting it once), and the one of H(P,P) return false (you
>>>>>>>> posted that
>>>>>>>> as well).  You a free to retract any of these at any time, but
>>>>>>>> until you
>>>>>>>> do, your H is wrong by your own supplied traces.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is never the case that the simulated input to H(P,P) ever reaches
>>>>>>> its own final state.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Waffle.  HP(P) halts so (P,P) == false is wrong.  You can retract
>>>> typo: "so H(P,P) == false is wrong"
>>>>>> these facts (since they come from you in the first place).  Until
>>>>>> then, you've told us that your H is wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is the case that the simulated input never reaches its [00000970]
>>>>> machine address, no waffle there merely an easily verified fact.
>>>> You can verify a thousand more irrelevant facts.  The facts that matter
>>>> are already known: that P(P) halts and that H(P,P) == false.  Are you
>>>> presenting any verified facts that corrects this mistake?  If so, just
>>>> say and I'll stop quoting it.
>>>
>>> The sequence of configurations specified by P(P) intuitively seems
>>> like it must be identical to the correct simulation of the input to
>>> H(P,P).  It turns out that intuition is incorrect.
>>
>> So which fact are you retracting?  That P(P) halts or that H(P,P) ==
>> false?
>>
>
> As long as the correctly simulated input to H(P,P) cannot possibly reach
> the final state of this input then we know that it never halts even if
> everyone in the universe disagrees.
>

Except that IT DOES, and you posted the proof previously (when you
called it H_Hat)

On 4/27/21 12:55 AM, olcott wrote:
Message-ID: <Teudndbu59GVBBr9nZ2dnUU7-V2dnZ2d@giganews.com>
> void H_Hat(u32 P)
> {
> u32 Input_Halts = Halts(P, P);
> if (Input_Halts)
> HERE: goto HERE;
> }
>
>
> int main()
> {
> H_Hat((u32)H_Hat);
> }
>
>
> _H_Hat()
> [00000b98](01) 55 push ebp
> [00000b99](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>
[00000b9b](01) 51 push ecx
> [00000b9c](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00000b9f](01) 50 push eax
> [00000ba0](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00000ba3](01) 51 push ecx
> [00000ba4](05) e88ffdffff call 00000938
> [00000ba9](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
> [00000bac](03) 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax
> [00000baf](04) 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
> [00000bb3](02) 7402 jz 00000bb7
> [00000bb5](02) ebfe jmp 00000bb5
> [00000bb7](02) 8be5 mov esp,ebp
> [00000bb9](01) 5d pop ebp
> [00000bba](01) c3 ret
> Size in bytes:(0035) [00000bba]
>
> _main()
> [00000bc8](01) 55 push ebp
> [00000bc9](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> [00000bcb](05) 68980b0000 push 00000b98
> [00000bd0](05) e8c3ffffff call 00000b98
> [00000bd5](03) 83c404 add esp,+04
> [00000bd8](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax
> [00000bda](01) 5d pop ebp
> [00000bdb](01) c3 ret
> Size in bytes:(0020) [00000bdb]
>
> ===============================
> ...[00000bc8][001015d4][00000000](01) 55 push ebp
> ...[00000bc9][001015d4][00000000](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> ...[00000bcb][001015d0][00000b98](05) 68980b0000 push 00000b98
> ...[00000bd0][001015cc][00000bd5](05) e8c3ffffff call 00000b98
> ...[00000b98][001015c8][001015d4](01) 55 push ebp
> ...[00000b99][001015c8][001015d4](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> ...[00000b9b][001015c4][00000000](01) 51 push ecx
> ...[00000b9c][001015c4][00000000](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000b9f][001015c0][00000b98](01) 50 push eax
> ...[00000ba0][001015c0][00000b98](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000ba3][001015bc][00000b98](01) 51 push ecx
> ...[00000ba4][001015b8][00000ba9](05) e88ffdffff call 00000938
> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation at Machine Address:b98
> ...[00000b98][00211674][00211678](01) 55 push ebp
> ...[00000b99][00211674][00211678](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> ...[00000b9b][00211670][00201644](01) 51 push ecx
> ...[00000b9c][00211670][00201644](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000b9f][0021166c][00000b98](01) 50 push eax
> ...[00000ba0][0021166c][00000b98](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000ba3][00211668][00000b98](01) 51 push ecx
> ...[00000ba4][00211664][00000ba9](05) e88ffdffff call 00000938
> ...[00000b98][0025c09c][0025c0a0](01) 55 push ebp
> ...[00000b99][0025c09c][0025c0a0](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> ...[00000b9b][0025c098][0024c06c](01) 51 push ecx
> ...[00000b9c][0025c098][0024c06c](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000b9f][0025c094][00000b98](01) 50 push eax
> ...[00000ba0][0025c094][00000b98](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[00000ba3][0025c090][00000b98](01) 51 push ecx
> ...[00000ba4][0025c08c][00000ba9](05) e88ffdffff call 00000938
> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped

Above decision was from the call the Halts inside H_Hat, deciding that
H_Hat(H_Hat) seems to be non-halting, it then returns that answer and is
processed below:

> ...[00000ba9][001015c4][00000000](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
> ...[00000bac][001015c4][00000000](03) 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax
> ...[00000baf][001015c4][00000000](04) 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
> ...[00000bb3][001015c4][00000000](02) 7402 jz 00000bb7
> ...[00000bb7][001015c8][001015d4](02) 8be5 mov esp,ebp
> ...[00000bb9][001015cc][00000bd5](01) 5d pop ebp
> ...[00000bba][001015d0][00000b98](01) c3 ret
> ...[00000bd5][001015d4][00000000](03) 83c404 add esp,+04
> ...[00000bd8][001015d4][00000000](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax
> ...[00000bda][001015d8][00100000](01) 5d pop ebp
> ...[00000bdb][001015dc][00000098](01) c3 ret

SEE IT HALTED!

> Number_of_User_Instructions(39)
> Number of Instructions Executed(26567)