On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 22:43:20 -0500
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:

> On 8/17/2022 10:24 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 11:17:16 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >> On 8/17/2022 10:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>> On 8/17/22 10:47 PM, olcott wrote:
> >>>> On 8/17/2022 9:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>>>> On 8/17/22 10:14 PM, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>> On 8/17/2022 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 8/17/22 9:12 PM, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 8/17/2022 7:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 8/17/22 11:08 AM, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/2022 6:51 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/22 1:57 AM, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/2022 12:02 AM, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 9:56:23 PM UTC-7, olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2022 11:52 PM, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:21:04 PM UTC-7,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you are saying that the correct and complete x86
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulation by H(P,P)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of its input WOULD STOP RUNNING?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H is , by definition, a Turing Machine and therefore
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> H is a C function that I hope to show is a valid proxy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for TM at some
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> future date, after it is accepted that H(P,P)==0 is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct software
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> engineering.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am biding my time here while I am preparing the code
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a much wider
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> audience.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> H the C program is assumed equivalent to H the Turing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Machine.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> H is a C function, not a program and I made it as Turing
> >>>>>>>>>>>> equivalent as I could. H always returns the same value
> >>>>>>>>>>>> for the same arguments every time that it is invoked.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> And this is a key part of your error.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> H(P,P) does correctly determine that its input never halts
> >>>>>>>>>> there is no error in this.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Nope, you have shown that it halts.
> >>>>>>>> I have shown that the input simulated by H(P,P) reaches the
> >>>>>>>> "return" instruction (final state of this input?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> computation that halts … the Turing machine will halt
> >>>>>>>> whenever it enters a final state. (Linz:1990:234)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You have shown that the CORRECT (and complete) simulation of
> >>>>>>> the input to H(P,P) will Halt.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have shown that the CORRECT (and complete) simulation of the
> >>>>>> input to H(P,P) *BY H* will Halt
> >>>>>> *MEANING THE THE SIMULATED INPUT REACHES ITS "return"
> >>>>>> instruction* (final state)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Except that the only H that actually does this BY DEFINITION
> >>>>> doesn't abort its simulaiton and thus doesn't answer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 8/17/2022 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>>> > You have shown that the CORRECT (and complete) simulation of
> >>>> > the input to H(P,P) will Halt.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have never shown anything like this.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Then what is this, but a trace of x86UTM simulating the input
> >>> that you give to H(P,P) just in this case you called P H_Hat.
> >>>
> >>> On 4/27/21 12:55 AM, olcott wrote:
> >>> Message-ID: <Teudndbu59GVBBr9...@giganews.com>
> >>>> void H_Hat(u32 P)
> >>>> {
> >>>> u32 Input_Halts = Halts(P, P);
> >>>> if (Input_Halts)
> >>>> HERE: goto HERE;
> >>>> }
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> int main()
> >>>> {
> >>>> H_Hat((u32)H_Hat);
> >>>> }
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _H_Hat()
> >>>> [00000b98](01) 55 push ebp
> >>>> [00000b99](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> >>>>
> >>> [00000b9b](01) 51 push ecx
> >>>> [00000b9c](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> >>>> [00000b9f](01) 50 push eax
> >>>> [00000ba0](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> >>>> [00000ba3](01) 51 push ecx
> >>>> [00000ba4](05) e88ffdffff call 00000938
> >>>> [00000ba9](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
> >>>> [00000bac](03) 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax
> >>>> [00000baf](04) 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
> >>>> [00000bb3](02) 7402 jz 00000bb7
> >>>> [00000bb5](02) ebfe jmp 00000bb5
> >>>> [00000bb7](02) 8be5 mov esp,ebp
> >>>> [00000bb9](01) 5d pop ebp
> >>>> [00000bba](01) c3 ret
> >>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00000bba]
> >>>>
> >>>> _main()
> >>>> [00000bc8](01) 55 push ebp
> >>>> [00000bc9](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> >>>> [00000bcb](05) 68980b0000 push 00000b98
> >>>> [00000bd0](05) e8c3ffffff call 00000b98
> >>>> [00000bd5](03) 83c404 add esp,+04
> >>>> [00000bd8](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax
> >>>> [00000bda](01) 5d pop ebp
> >>>> [00000bdb](01) c3 ret
> >>>> Size in bytes:(0020) [00000bdb]
> >>>>
> >>>> ==============================> >>>> ...[00000bc8][001015d4][00000000](01) 55 push ebp
> >>>> ...[00000bc9][001015d4][00000000](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> >>>> ...[00000bcb][001015d0][00000b98](05) 68980b0000 push 00000b98
> >>>> ...[00000bd0][001015cc][00000bd5](05) e8c3ffffff call 00000b98
> >>>> ...[00000b98][001015c8][001015d4](01) 55 push ebp
> >>>> ...[00000b99][001015c8][001015d4](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> >>>> ...[00000b9b][001015c4][00000000](01) 51 push ecx
> >>>> ...[00000b9c][001015c4][00000000](03) 8b4508 mov
> >>>> eax,[ebp+08] ...[00000b9f][001015c0][00000b98](01) 50
> >>>> push eax ...[00000ba0][001015c0][00000b98](03) 8b4d08 mov
> >>>> ecx,[ebp+08] ...[00000ba3][001015bc][00000b98](01) 51
> >>>> push ecx ...[00000ba4][001015b8][00000ba9](05) e88ffdffff call
> >>>> 00000938 Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation at Machine
> >>>> Address:b98 ...[00000b98][00211674][00211678](01) 55
> >>>> push ebp ...[00000b99][00211674][00211678](02) 8bec mov
> >>>> ebp,esp ...[00000b9b][00211670][00201644](01) 51 push
> >>>> ecx ...[00000b9c][00211670][00201644](03) 8b4508 mov
> >>>> eax,[ebp+08] ...[00000b9f][0021166c][00000b98](01) 50
> >>>> push eax ...[00000ba0][0021166c][00000b98](03) 8b4d08 mov
> >>>> ecx,[ebp+08] ...[00000ba3][00211668][00000b98](01) 51
> >>>> push ecx ...[00000ba4][00211664][00000ba9](05) e88ffdffff call
> >>>> 00000938 ...[00000b98][0025c09c][0025c0a0](01) 55 push
> >>>> ebp ...[00000b99][0025c09c][0025c0a0](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> >>>> ...[00000b9b][0025c098][0024c06c](01) 51 push ecx
> >>>> ...[00000b9c][0025c098][0024c06c](03) 8b4508 mov
> >>>> eax,[ebp+08] ...[00000b9f][0025c094][00000b98](01) 50
> >>>> push eax ...[00000ba0][0025c094][00000b98](03) 8b4d08 mov
> >>>> ecx,[ebp+08] ...[00000ba3][0025c090][00000b98](01) 51
> >>>> push ecx ...[00000ba4][0025c08c][00000ba9](05) e88ffdffff call
> >>>> 00000938 Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected
> >>>> Simulation Stopped
> >>>
> >>> Above decision was from the call the Halts inside H_Hat, deciding
> >>> that H_Hat(H_Hat) seems to be non-halting, it then returns that
> >>> answer and is processed below:
> >>>
> >>>> ...[00000ba9][001015c4][00000000](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
> >>>> ...[00000bac][001015c4][00000000](03) 8945fc mov
> >>>> [ebp-04],eax ...[00000baf][001015c4][00000000](04) 837dfc00
> >>>> cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 ...[00000bb3][001015c4][00000000](02)
> >>>> 7402 jz 00000bb7 ...[00000bb7][001015c8][001015d4](02)
> >>>> 8be5 mov esp,ebp ...[00000bb9][001015cc][00000bd5](01) 5d
> >>>> pop ebp ...[00000bba][001015d0][00000b98](01) c3
> >>>> ret ...[00000bd5][001015d4][00000000](03) 83c404 add
> >>>> esp,+04 ...[00000bd8][001015d4][00000000](02) 33c0 xor
> >>>> eax,eax ...[00000bda][001015d8][00100000](01) 5d pop ebp
> >>>> ...[00000bdb][001015dc][00000098](01) c3 ret
> >>>
> >>> SEE IT HALTED!
> >>>
> >>>> Number_of_User_Instructions(39)
> >>>> Number of Instructions Executed(26567)
> >>>
> >> The input simulated H(P,P) never halts.
> >
> > We know what you mean by that: that Ha(Pa,Pa) is reporting on the
> > halt status of the non-input Pn(Pn):
> *THIS IS SIMPLY OVER YOUR HEAD*
> It is an axiom that when-so-ever any simulating halt decider (SHD)
> performs a correct simulation of its input and this simulation would
> never stop running unless this simulation is aborted that this SHD is
> correct to reject this input as non-halting.

WRONG! My SHD doesn't require the simulation to be aborted, as has been
explained to you many times.

/Flibble