On 8/19/22 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 8/19/2022 5:58 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 8/18/22 11:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 8/18/2022 10:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 8/18/22 11:14 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 8/18/2022 10:12 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/18/22 10:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/18/2022 9:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/18/22 9:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/18/2022 8:04 PM, Skep Dick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, 19 August 2022 at 02:12:26 UTC+2, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/18/2022 7:05 PM, Skep Dick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, 19 August 2022 at 01:51:13 UTC+2, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My system is correct from a software engineering point of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> view.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> H does correctly determine that the actual behavior of its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual input
>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifies a sequence of instructions that never reach their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> final state.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your program doesn't determine that the input NEVER (key
>>>>>>>>>>>> word!!!) reach their final state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your program determines that input doesn't reach its final
>>>>>>>>>>>> state within N number of CPU cycles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When-so-ever the partial simulation of a machine description
>>>>>>>>>>> correctly
>>>>>>>>>>> matches a correct infinite behavior pattern then it is
>>>>>>>>>>> certain that this
>>>>>>>>>>> machine description specifies infinite behavior.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can correctly put as correct many correct uses of the
>>>>>>>>>> correct word correct but correct is not correct to be correct
>>>>>>>>>> correct correct correct.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are incorrect.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Since there are no mistakes no one can point out any mistakes*
>>>>>>>>> *Since there are no mistakes no one can point out any mistakes*
>>>>>>>>> *Since there are no mistakes no one can point out any mistakes*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People HAVE pointed out the mistakes, but you are apparently too
>>>>>>>> dumb to understand the problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (a) The correct partial simulation of a machine description
>>>>>>>>> (b) Correctly matches
>>>>>>>>> (c) A correct infinite behavior pattern
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the pattern you suggest is NOT corrct.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion(int N)
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>    Infinite_Recursion(N);
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>    Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)Infinite_Recursion, 0x777));
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *TRY AND FIND ANY EXAMPLE OF FALSE POSITIVE*
>>>>>>> (1) Infinite_Recursion() is called twice in sequence from the
>>>>>>> same machine address of Infinite_Recursion() .
>>>>>>> (2) With the same arguments to Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>> (3) With no control flow instructions between the invocation of
>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion()  and the call to Infinite_Recursion() from
>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fact that no false positives exist proves that there are no
>>>>>>> false positives. Every time that the above pattern is matched is
>>>>>>> a case of infinite recursion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fallacy of the Strawman.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not saying it doesn't work for Recursion, it doesn't work for
>>>>>> the infinite simulation pattern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So then you agree that this reasoning is correct as long as the
>>>>> behavior pattern is correct?
>>>>>
>>>>> (a) The correct partial simulation of a machine description
>>>>> (b) Correctly matches
>>>>> (c) A correct infinite behavior pattern
>>>>> (d) Then this machine description specifies infinite behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you HAD a correct infinite simulation pattern, then yes, if you
>>>> detect it, (BY DEFINITION) the behavior would be infinite, as that
>>>> is the definition of correct.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am surprised that you say that, most people here seem to be happy
>>> to disagree with verified facts and logical necessity as long as they
>>> can do this as part of their rebuttal to make sure that they always
>>> disagree with everything that I say.
>>>
>>> Do you agree that this infinite recursion behavior pattern will never
>>> have any false positive matches?
>>>
>>> void Infinite_Recursion(int N)
>>> {
>>>    Infinite_Recursion(N);
>>> }
>>>
>>> int main()
>>> {
>>>    Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)Infinite_Recursion, 0x777));
>>> }
>>>
>>> _Infinite_Recursion()
>>> [000010f2](01)  55         push ebp
>>> [000010f3](02)  8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>> [000010f5](03)  8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> [000010f8](01)  50         push eax
>>> [000010f9](05)  e8f4ffffff call 000010f2
>>> [000010fe](03)  83c404     add esp,+04
>>> [00001101](01)  5d         pop ebp
>>> [00001102](01)  c3         ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0017) [00001102]
>>>
>>> H: Begin Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:111fe5
>>> [000010f2][00111fd1][00111fd5] 55         push ebp
>>> [000010f3][00111fd1][00111fd5] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>> [000010f5][00111fd1][00111fd5] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> [000010f8][00111fcd][00000777] 50         push eax      // push 0x777
>>> [000010f9][00111fc9][000010fe] e8f4ffffff call 000010f2 // call
>>> Infinite_Recursion
>>> [000010f2][00111fc5][00111fd1] 55         push ebp
>>> [000010f3][00111fc5][00111fd1] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>> [000010f5][00111fc5][00111fd1] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> [000010f8][00111fc1][00000777] 50         push eax      // push 0x777
>>> [000010f9][00111fbd][000010fe] e8f4ffffff call 000010f2 // call
>>> Infinite_Recursion
>>> H: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>>>
>>> (1) Infinite_Recursion() is called twice in sequence from the same
>>> machine address of Infinite_Recursion() .
>>> (2) With the same arguments to Infinite_Recursion()
>>> (3) With no control flow instructions between the invocation of
>>> Infinite_Recursion()  and the call to Infinite_Recursion() from
>>> Infinite_Recursion()
>>
>> For RECURSION, yes. Note that (3) the two mentions of
>> "Infinite_Recursion()" specify the SAME function.
>>
>
> *Here it is adapted to a more complex case of infinite recursion*
> (1) HR is called twice in sequence from the same machine address of PR.
> (2) With the same arguments to HR.
> (3) With no control flow instructions between the invocation of PR and
> the call to HR from PR
>
> *False Positive*
> Reporting infinite recursion when there is no infinite recursion.
>
> Do you agree that the above criteria would have no false positives?
> (see all the details below).
>
> *H detects that PR is calling HR in infinite recursion*

No, because if HR had conditionality, it could break the loop, thus
there is no "infinite recursion".

infinte recursion is a function of the COMPLETE loop, not just the
behavior of a piece of it.

>
> PR(u32 x)
> {
>   HR(x);
> }
>
> HR(u32 y)
> {
>   PR(y);
> }
>
> int main()
> {
>  Output((char*)"Input_Halts = ", H(PR, (ptr)0x777));
> }
>
> _HR()
> [00001042](01)  55             push ebp
> [00001043](02)  8bec           mov ebp,esp
> [00001045](03)  8b4508         mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001048](01)  50             push eax
> [00001049](05)  e814000000     call 00001062
> [0000104e](03)  83c404         add esp,+04
> [00001051](01)  5d             pop ebp
> [00001052](01)  c3             ret
> Size in bytes:(0017) [00001052]
>
> _PR()
> [00001062](01)  55             push ebp
> [00001063](02)  8bec           mov ebp,esp
> [00001065](03)  8b4508         mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001068](01)  50             push eax
> [00001069](05)  e8d4ffffff     call 00001042
> [0000106e](03)  83c404         add esp,+04
> [00001071](01)  5d             pop ebp
> [00001072](01)  c3             ret
> Size in bytes:(0017) [00001072]
>
> _main()
> [00001082](01)  55             push ebp
> [00001083](02)  8bec           mov ebp,esp
> [00001085](05)  6877070000     push 00000777
> [0000108a](05)  6862100000     push 00001062
> [0000108f](05)  e8fefdffff     call 00000e92
> [00001094](03)  83c408         add esp,+08
> [00001097](01)  50             push eax
> [00001098](05)  6863040000     push 00000463
> [0000109d](05)  e8e0f3ffff     call 00000482
> [000010a2](03)  83c408         add esp,+08
> [000010a5](02)  33c0           xor eax,eax
> [000010a7](01)  5d             pop ebp
> [000010a8](01)  c3             ret
> Size in bytes:(0039) [000010a8]
>
>  machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
>  address   address   data      code       language
>  ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
> [00001082][00101afb][00000000] 55             push ebp
> [00001083][00101afb][00000000] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
> [00001085][00101af7][00000777] 6877070000     push 00000777 // push 0x777
> [0000108a][00101af3][00001062] 6862100000     push 00001062 // push PR
> [0000108f][00101aef][00001094] e8fefdffff     call 00000e92 // call H
>
> H: Begin Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:111ba7
> [00001062][00111b93][00111b97] 55             push ebp      // enter PR
> [00001063][00111b93][00111b97] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
> [00001065][00111b93][00111b97] 8b4508         mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001068][00111b8f][00000777] 50             push eax      // push 0x777
> [00001069][00111b8b][0000106e] e8d4ffffff     call 00001042 // call HR
> [00001042][00111b87][00111b93] 55             push ebp
> [00001043][00111b87][00111b93] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
> [00001045][00111b87][00111b93] 8b4508         mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001048][00111b83][00000777] 50             push eax      // push 0x777
> [00001049][00111b7f][0000104e] e814000000     call 00001062 // call PR
> [00001062][00111b7b][00111b87] 55             push ebp
> [00001063][00111b7b][00111b87] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
> [00001065][00111b7b][00111b87] 8b4508         mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001068][00111b77][00000777] 50             push eax      // push 0x777
> [00001069][00111b73][0000106e] e8d4ffffff     call 00001042 // call HR
> H: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>
> (1) HR is called twice in sequence from the same machine address of PR.
> (2) With the same arguments to HR.
> (3) With no control flow instructions between the invocation of PR and
> the call to HR from PR
>
> [00001094][00101afb][00000000] 83c408         add esp,+08
> [00001097][00101af7][00000000] 50             push eax
> [00001098][00101af3][00000463] 6863040000     push 00000463
> [0000109d][00101af3][00000463] e8e0f3ffff     call 00000482
> Input_Halts = 0
> [000010a2][00101afb][00000000] 83c408         add esp,+08
> [000010a5][00101afb][00000000] 33c0           xor eax,eax
> [000010a7][00101aff][00000018] 5d             pop ebp
> [000010a8][00101b03][00000000] c3             ret
> Number of Instructions Executed(1791) == 27 Pages
>
>
>
>