On 8/30/2022 5:20 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 17:07:36 -0500
> olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/30/2022 4:57 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 16:23:18 -0500
>>> olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/30/2022 4:02 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 15:59:31 -0500
>>>>> olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/30/2022 3:28 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 15:09:40 -0500
>>>>>>> olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/30/2022 12:00 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 10:32:03 -0500
>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/30/2022 10:23 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 10:13:52 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/30/2022 10:08 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 10:04:36 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // direct execution of x(y) derives equivalent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // behavior to the simulation of x(y)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> u32 Simulate(ptr x, ptr y)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x(y);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return 1;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Px(ptr x)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simulate(x, x);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output("Input_Halts = ", H(Px, Px));
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _Simulate()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010b2](01) 55 push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010b3](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010b5](03) 8b450c mov eax,[ebp+0c]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010b8](01) 50 push eax
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010b9](03) ff5508 call dword [ebp+08]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010bc](03) 83c404 add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010bf](05) b801000000 mov eax,00000001
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010c4](01) 5d pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010c5](01) c3 ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0020) [000010c5]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _Px()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001102](01) 55 push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001103](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001105](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001108](01) 50 push eax
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001109](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000110c](01) 51 push ecx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000110d](05) e8a0ffffff call 000010b2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001112](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001115](01) 5d pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001116](01) c3 ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0021) [00001116]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001122](01) 55 push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001123](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001125](05) 6802110000 push 00001102
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000112a](05) 6802110000 push 00001102
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000112f](05) e85efdffff call 00000e92
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001134](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001137](01) 50 push eax
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001138](05) 6863040000 push 00000463
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000113d](05) e840f3ffff call 00000482
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001142](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001145](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001147](01) 5d pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001148](01) c3 ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0039) [00001148]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine stack stack machine assembly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> address address data code language
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ======== ======== ======== =========
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ============= [00001122][00101c15][00000000] 55
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push ebp [00001123][00101c15][00000000] 8bec
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mov ebp,esp [00001125][00101c11][00001102] 6802110000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push 00001102 [0000112a][00101c0d][00001102] 6802110000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push 00001102 [0000112f][00101c09][00001134] e85efdffff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call 00000e92 Address_of_H:e92
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H: Begin Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:111cc1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Address_of_H:e92
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001102][00111cad][00111cb1] 55 push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001103][00111cad][00111cb1] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001105][00111cad][00111cb1] 8b4508 mov
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eax,[ebp+08] [00001108][00111ca9][00001102] 50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push eax [00001109][00111ca9][00001102] 8b4d08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mov ecx,[ebp+08] [0000110c][00111ca5][00001102] 51
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push ecx [0000110d][00111ca1][00001112] e8a0ffffff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call 000010b2 [000010b2][00111c9d][00111cad] 55
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push ebp [000010b3][00111c9d][00111cad] 8bec
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mov ebp,esp [000010b5][00111c9d][00111cad] 8b450c
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mov eax,[ebp+0c] [000010b8][00111c99][00001102] 50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push eax Calling:_Px()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Decode_Control_Flow_Instruction([00000008][00111c9d][00001102])
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000010b9][00111c95][000010bc] ff5508 call dword
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [ebp+08] [00001102][00111c91][00111c9d] 55
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push ebp [00001103][00111c91][00111c9d] 8bec
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mov ebp,esp [00001105][00111c91][00111c9d] 8b4508
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mov eax,[ebp+08] [00001108][00111c8d][00001102] 50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push eax [00001109][00111c8d][00001102] 8b4d08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mov ecx,[ebp+08] [0000110c][00111c89][00001102] 51
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push ecx [0000110d][00111c85][00001112] e8a0ffffff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call 000010b2 H: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stopped
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001134][00101c15][00000000] 83c408 add esp,+08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001137][00101c11][00000000] 50 push eax
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001138][00101c0d][00000463] 6863040000 push
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00000463 [0000113d][00101c0d][00000463] e840f3ffff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call 00000482 Input_Halts = 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001142][00101c15][00000000] 83c408 add esp,+08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001145][00101c15][00000000] 33c0 xor eax,eax
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001147][00101c19][00000018] 5d pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001148][00101c1d][00000000] c3 ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Number of Instructions Executed(2195) == 33 Pages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Px doesn't call Simulate, Px calls H. You have made the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same error repeatedly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Px does not call Simulate, mine does.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Call my Px Pz if this helps avoid the confusion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pz doesn't call Simulate, Pz calls H. You have made the same
>>>>>>>>>>> error repeatedly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is your basis for saying that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My basis for saying that is an observation that you are
>>>>>>>>> attempting to build some convoluted strawman whereby you can
>>>>>>>>> claim equivalence between H and Simulate so you can then
>>>>>>>>> erroneously claim that all simulating halt deciders are
>>>>>>>>> recursive and cannot return a value to their callers from
>>>>>>>>> within the simulation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you are disagreeing with what I said on some other basis
>>>>>>>> than what I actually said: *that is the definition of
>>>>>>>> dishonestly*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK dear. Carry on constructing your strawman, everyone will
>>>>>>> knock it down as usual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Failing to provide a YES/NO answer breaks an honest dialogue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Failing to fully explain all of the reasoning for a NO answer
>>>>>> breaks and honest dialogue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> u32 Simulate(ptr x, ptr y)
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> x(y);
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> void Pz(ptr x)
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> Simulate(x, x);
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> Output("Input_Halts = ", H(Pz, Pz));
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H(Pz,Pz) correctly returns 0.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *So you agree with the first step of the proof*?
>>>>>> Only YES/NO are honest answers, NO requires a complete
>>>>>> explanation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Answer me this, dear, why does Simulate have a u32 return type if
>>>>> it can never return to its caller? You've fucked up, BIG TIME.
>>>>>
>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Simulate initially always returned 1, which it can always do for
>>>> every input that halts. I removed this return to make it simpler. I
>>>> should have converted the return type to void.
>>>>
>>>> Is H(Pz,Pz) correct to return 0?
>>>
>>> LOL.
>>>
>>> /Flibble
>>>
>>
>> In other words you have no intention of an honest dialogue.
>
> When people engage you with honest dialog your response is more or less
> always dishonest.
>
> /Flibble

When I go though my proof point-by-point people always find some way to
dodge these points with one form of misdirection or another as you are
doing.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer