On 8/8/23 12:18 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Aug 2023 18:01:48 +0100) it happened The Natural
> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <uar81s$2ui9t$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 07/08/2023 16:43, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Aug 2023 14:49:46 +0100) it happened The Natural
>>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <uaqspr$2skqd$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>> On 07/08/2023 12:55, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> It is better to peacefully live together with Russia
>>>>
>>>> ROFLMAO.
>>> \
>>>
>>> I do seem to remember that it was Russia that freed much of the European continent from the nazis in WW2
>>
>> No, its was the Russians who occupied the countries that Germany had
>> overrun, and committed almost identical atrocities to them.
>> They weren't freed, they just had a different slavemaster.
>
> My father was in the resistance in the Netherlands in WW2.
> He also was a journalist that wrote anti-nazi stuff.
> The Germans put him in a concentration camp.
> He was freed by the brave Russians.
>
> Occupation clear to me these days here is more by US
> The international court of justice in the Hague must now judge on some things says US
> but was not allowed to judge on US war crimes / criminals in Iraq else 'Bush would invade ' (The Netherlands).
> Talk about Mafia, the US is one.
> Just big weapons manufacturers that even supply their own people no end and kill thousand of their
> own people just for sales.
> It designed covid but as always used the far from their bed method and did the experiments in a Chinese lab,
> the same experiments that were considered too dangerous by US DOD itself.
> Faulty a mass murderer as government adviser now still not sentenced to how many lifetimes or the chair.
> So damage China, the competition. backfired now did it not!
> but then they made millions on the vaccines, those kill many too.
> Criminals they, US, are.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>> Its better to run the world on fairy farts and unicorn horns, but it
>>>> ain't happening any time soon.
>>>
>>> It will always be one ant heap against the other, it would only change if we (humming beans)
>>> faced for example a common enemy, say for example an invader from space.
>>
>> Correct. Wars started when we stopped wandering around an hunting and
>> gathering, and started collecting food animals into enclosures.
>> It was always going to be a tough choice between collecting your own
>> animals and fencing them in, which is hard work, or simply taking over
>> someone's place where the hard work was already done, killing the owner
>> and his sons and having fun with the daughters.
>>
>> Its all perfectly rational cost benefit analysis. And the above is a
>> pretty accurate desrciption of Russian behaviour in Ukraine, by all
>> accounts.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> The only way to live peacefully with Russia is to let Russia run your
>>>> country and rip off everything you own after they have destroyed your
>>>> cities raped the women and killed all the men.
>>>
>>> Not so, using Russian gas was OK, benefitted both sides.
>> And you don't think that gas came at a price, when the *whole* of the
>> ruling party in Germany had *all* been to Moscow at the Kremlins
>> expense, with all 'entertainments' laid on and a hidden camera in every
>> room?
>>
>> And its a toss up as to whether more Republicans or more democrats are
>> in the pay of, or being blackmailed by the FSB., Or how many
>> organisations like Greenpeace, FOE, Black Lives Matter or any of the
>> rest of them are not indirectly funded and controlled by Russia? The
>> Kremlin has global aspirations and it was doing famously until it
>> started an actual hot war. Huge mistake. It had already destroyed most
>> of the West through culturual Marxism, as some people call it.
>>
>>>
>>> CIA has as mission to put petrol on any fire they can find to get the war machine going so their bosses
>>> can sell more weapons.
>>> We, in Europe, can make much better weapons than for example that F35 crap, UK had some nice VTOL fighters.
>>> But Boris was an US clown who just separated UK from Europe hurting everybody in the UK.
>>>
>>
>> You have no clue about what you are talking.
>> Boris didnt do anything except ride a political movemenjt for his own
>> career. And you cant separate the UK from Europe, we are patrt of Euripe
>> and we are Europeans.
>> What happened is that after repeatedly asking the European Union to be
>> sensible and stop taking bribes, publish their accounts and gernerallly
>> start behaving like a adult and responsible government and not a Mafia,
>> the people of the UK finally got so pissed off with them they they gave
>> them the finger and left.
>> It was never about leaving Europe - that is the canard the EU made up,
>> It was always about leaving the oppressive, utterly corrupt
>> antidemocratic and incompetent European Union.
>> And the Union has been trying to destroy Britain just like Russia is
>> trying to destroy Ukraine, for having the audacity to tell them,
>> politely to fuck off...
>>
>>>
>>>> They then move Russians in and claim 'it wants to be part of Russia'.
>>>>
>>>> I am profoundly grateful that the USA is making some cash out of this,
>>>> as much as I am profoundly grateful that its not Britain this time
>>>> standing alone,
>>>
>>> I worked for Tek when the Iraq war started, so elated they were with the extra orders killing Iraqis provided...
>>> I quit. and told them why.
>>> Before that CIA wanted me, I told them to stuff it.
>>>
>>
>> Sure, I worked for weapons companies for a while. I felt uneasy, and
>> left. They weren't saints for sure. loads of taxpayer money being
>> wasted, but we did put together some pretty good tech as well, and when
>> it comes to corruptions in the 'military industrial complex', there is
>> only one winner, an it ain't the USA, its jolly old Putinosvky and his
>> oligarchic Ripoffsky, Defraudski, and Gimmeayachtsky.
>>
>>> Without Russia good chance you English would now be speaking German :-)
>>>
>> Not at all, without UK and US help, Russia would all be speaking
>> German, and would be slightly more civilised.
>>
>> Frankly the US was incredibly stupid, Churchill tried to tell them what
>> was going on. But Roosevelt ignored him and cosied up instead to the
>> mass murderer who had killed millions of his own people, and went on to
>> kill millions more. I guess given the experience of the Native Americans
>> and black slaves, the USA felt Russia was a kindred spirit in genocide.
>>
>> As it was it wasn't until what Churchill called the 'iron curtain' came
>> down that the USA actually woke up to the fact that they looked set to
>> lose an entire market nearly as big as the USA to Russia that they
>> decided to create NATO...if Russia had trolled all the way to France -
>> and the UK didnt have the power to stop them - then there would have
>> been a perfect third Reich, just speaking Russian, that;'s all.
>>
>> And big enough to take on the USA, and win.
>>
>> "Between the early 1930s and his death in 1953, Joseph Stalin had more
>> than a million of his own citizens executed. Millions more fell victim
>> to forced labor, deportation, famine, bloody massacres, and detention
>> and interrogation by Stalin’s henchmen. Stalin’s Genocides is the
>> chilling story of these crimes. The book puts forward the important
>> argument that brutal mass killings under Stalin in the 1930s were indeed
>> acts of genocide and that the Soviet dictator himself was behind them.
>>
>> Norman Naimark, one of our most respected authorities on the Soviet era,
>> challenges the widely held notion that Stalin’s crimes do not constitute
>> genocide, which the United Nations defines as the premeditated killing
>> of a group of people because of their race, religion, or inherent
>> national qualities. In this gripping book, Naimark explains how Stalin
>> became a pitiless mass killer. He looks at the most consequential and
>> harrowing episodes of Stalin’s systematic destruction of his own
>> populace—the liquidation and repression of the so-called kulaks, the
>> Ukrainian famine, the purge of nationalities, and the Great Terror—and
>> examines them in light of other genocides in history. In addition,
>> Naimark compares Stalin’s crimes with those of the most notorious
>> genocidal killer of them all, Adolf Hitler."
>>
>> Where are the real inhabitants of Crimea? They are neither Ukrainians
>> nor Russians, they were Tatars. They were all deported or killed.
>>
>> "Crimean Tatars constituted the majority of Crimea's population from the
>> time of ethnogenesis until the mid-19th century, and the largest ethnic
>> population until the end of the 19th century. Russia attempted to purge
>> Crimean Tatars through a combination of physical violence, intimidation,
>> forced resettlement, and legalized forms of discrimination between 1783
>> and 1900. Between Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 1783 and 1800,
>> somewhere between 100,000 and 300,000 Crimean Tatars emigrated. However,
>> this did not result in the complete eradication of Crimean Tatar
>> cultural elements (at least not under the Romanov dynasty; however,
>> under the Soviets, the Crimean Tatars were almost completely driven from
>> the Crimean peninsula). Almost immediately after retaking of Crimea from
>> Axis forces, in May 1944, the USSR State Defense Committee ordered the
>> deportation of all of the Crimean Tatars from Crimea, including the
>> families of Crimean Tatars who had served in the Soviet Army. The
>> deportees were transported in trains and boxcars to Central Asia,
>> primarily to Uzbekistan. The Crimean Tatars lost 18 to 46 percent of
>> their population as a result of the deportations. Starting in 1967, a
>> few were allowed to return and in 1989 the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet
>> Union condemned the removal of Crimean Tatars from their motherland as
>> inhumane and lawless, but only a tiny percent were able to return before
>> the full right of return became policy in 1989. "
>>
>> Russia has form Jan. THAT is why we are funding Ukraine. Russia is not a
>> nice civilised country even though it had Starbucks and McDonalds in
>> Moscow, st Petersburg and Novosibirsk. It is, behind the civilised
>> veneer of its urban population, desperately backward, rural, brutal and
>> lawless, and guess who gets sent to Ukraine, Not the urban westernised
>> hipsters. The peasants and dregs from the houses with no running water
>> no electricity and no flush toilets. From Siberia. Or the Chechens.
>> Chechen Lives Don't Matter. There are as many fighting FOR Ukraine as
>> against them. Same with the Georgians. Everybody hates Russians. And for
>> really good reasons. They are ruthless selfish brutal racists, genocidal
>> psychopaths, supreme liars, corrupt from top to bottom, and have
>> absolutely no honour whatsoever. An agreement is there to be broken when
>> it suits them.
>>
>> Any decent Russian has already left.
>>
>> Do the research. Don't listen to the paid Russian trolls on the mass
>> media saying how 'Russia has a point' They don't. Russian methodology is
>> 100% incompatible with Western civilisation and values , they know it,
>> and are fighting to destroy it but we don't. We - well you - still
>> think they are decent reasonable people and can be negotiated with.
>> They cannot. Putin is a pure bred pyschopath and he is president because
>> that is what it takes to become a president in Russia. Instead of
>> merely very rich and 100% corrupt, like America. Or 100% corrupt and
>> only modestly rich, like the EU.
>>
>> We cannot negotiate with him, He will break any treaty. WE cannot regime
>> change him, because someone exactly the same would take his place. All
>> we can do is degrade his military potential and let his federation
>> collapse from within, and deal with whoever has an ounce of integrity
>> that emerges out of the chaos, and if te price of that is we have to pay
>> more for oil, well let them eat uranium instead, as some french tart
>> once said.
>
> Well that is a lot of Russofobia I'd say.
> Much of that goes for 'merrica too.
>
> Do you hide under the bed?
>
> It is true the EU government is over-reaching in some things.
> And not always doing the things that are best.
> But that goes for politicians in general.
>
> Is UK doing much better now? I think not if I read about food prices and housing there..
>
> All seems to be heading to a WW3, I expect in 2024.
>
> World population will then decrease ...

How big of a vodka ration does Putin provide ?

Clue - BIG clue - people don't flee to Russia, they
flee to 'western' countries/USA instead.