On 27/11/2023 03:58, 56g.1173 wrote:
> On 11/26/23 7:11 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 26/11/2023 11:02, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 01:16:47 -0500
>>> "56g.1173" <56g.1173@ztq9.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>     Thing is, you really have to Do The Numbers. The
>>>>     energy costs of refining steel/aluminum and pressing
>>>>     it into the needed shapes for appliances - it that
>>>>     really offset by slightly better "energy efficiency" ?
>>>
>>>     Generally far from it - which simply means that when you have to
>>> replace something then you do so with the most durable and efficient you
>>> can find and afford.
>>>
>>>     Replacing something that works or can easily be repaired is daft
>>> (except as a functional upgrade) but past a certain point replacement
>>> makes
>>> more sense than repair. It is a shame when that point is reached just
>>> because parts have become unobtainable because the last production
>>> run has
>>> been used.
>>>
>>>     The good engineering trend seems to be towards reliability in
>>> favour of maintenance - using sealed for life bearings instead of making
>>> repacking them easier for example. It's a pity about the "how many
>>> corners
>>> can we cut before it won't sell" crowd - some of whom get knighthoods
>>> (is
>>> it sir uncle or uncle sir ?).
>>>
>>
>> It is pure economics. When a robot assembly line can e.g. spit out
>> PICO PI boards at less than 6 minutes labour cost, for a skilled
>> repairer...who the **** is going to fix one?
>>
>> To call out an engineer to fix a $300  washing machine will likely be
>> $300 parts and labour.
>>
>> You might as well buy a new one .
>>
>> If you want one that wont break and has a 7 year guarantee expect to
>> pay $1000 instead.
>>
>> It's all down to robotisation. Its far cheaper to buy a new part off
>> an automatic production line than employ an actual human to fix that
>> part. IT and CAD/CAM and robotisation have destroyed the skilled
>> labour market, and the high street retail model. Just as the machine
>> loom destroyed craft weaving.
>>
>> We (the West) are now a society of consumption that does no production
>> at all. That's all done in China or some other part of Asia, or South
>> America.
>>
>> The world is changing, and we can't really turn the clock back.
>>
>> Amazon is my high street and China is my repairman.
>>
>> I've been fighting a recalcitrant Aga range stove for months - no one
>> even returns my calls to fix it.
>>
>> Finally I managed to dismantle the very last part and fixed that, only
>> to find that it had coked up *again* due to  utterly shit fuel
>> mandated by the EU for 'low sulphur'...
>>
>> Luckily I now have that down  to less than an hour as I bought all the
>> right tools. Long drill for the feed pipe and wood working burrs to
>> smash out all the carbon.
>
>   Be careful you don't compromise any of those tubes,
>   bad things can result.
>
>   Wonder what's wrong with the gas ? Usually carbon
>   suggests a slightly off air/fuel ratio. Did you
>   miss a vent tube somewhere ?
>
It runs on kerosene

It is literally a large paraffin stove.

heating oil slowly fills a baseplate with concentric rings into which
are alternately placed circular wicks, and cylinders of perforated
metal. The wicks help with lighting - in use the rings are hot enough to
vaporise the kerosene so the fuel burns as a vapor.

If the fuel level is too low the temperature drops and it starts to burn
via the wicks, produces a lot of soot and eventually goes out.

In use the baseplate where there is a pool of hot oil cokes up and
blocks the feed pipe. The hot oil essentially distils into a
vapourisable component and carbon. Fuel has been getting worse and
worse. I originally used to service it every 18 months. This last fuel
seems only to have lasted 3-4 months without coking up and it caused or
exacerbated pother issues. I.e. the stove is equipped with a sort of
carburettor. There is a float valve, and a sliding fuel flow valve which
is comprised of a vertical cylinder inside which another cylinder
slides. The inner cylinder has a slot about 10 thou wide and maybe 3/16"
long, and that slides past a hole in the outer cylinder. That's the fuel
metering - the base of the outer cylinder feed the burner.. Bad
kerosene tends to separate out and fill the slot with a sort of wax,
thereby obstructing fuel flow. I had a succession of problems with
everything.

There are no vent tubes as such

>   Personally, I won't have gas appliances. Seems like
>   every week there's a news story of something burning
>   down or entire homes exploding into splinters.
>
I am not keen on it either.
But most of the UK runs on it without dying. Statistically it is less
dangerous than firearms are in the USA. It used to be cheap, but not
anymore. Now kerosene is the cheapest.

>   I know the UK govt had a wild hair up its ass and was
>   intent on switching everyone to electric - UNTIL
>   somebody actually DID THE NUMBERS and they realized
>   they'd have to double or triple the capacity of the
>   national grid ... right down to the level of every
>   little street.

I was one of those people. No one listened to me. Ive been banging that
drum for over ten years now.

That was just an unthinkable expense
>   and SUDDENLY the govt swerved towards other 'fixes'.
>   Now it's "heat pumps", which are fine, but pumps
>   require electricity and typically the "used water"
>   is just dumped out somewhere. LOTS of water.
>
What 'used water' ?

>> These days when you want something doing, do it yourself or buy it off
>> Ali Express. Ore Amazon.
>>
>> No one is making a living doing it for you anymore.
>
>   Oh, they ARE ... by charging 300 to fix a 300 old stove  :-)
>
But who would accept that? A few years pack I looked inside the
'electronics' part of the local wastes disposal yard as I had some
really old PCS and CRT based TVS to get rid of. It was full of TVs -
most less than 5 years old.

>   Anyway, as for PARTS ... older usually meant "simpler" and
>   that puts them in the range of what 3-D printing can now do.
>
Yes, in many cases it does. My car features HVAC vents that rotate open
via little servos on startup. The manufacturer expects you to replace
the whole unit doe $250, but some guy on ebay is printing a little
plastic gear that replaces the shit one that always strips, and he sells
4 for £10 .

>> PS my 4 zone PI ZERO W central heating controller  with wifi
>> thermostats went live yesterday. What it replaced already looks worth
>> more on ebay than what I paid in the end, and many many thanks to all
>> who helped make it as rock solid as it now seems to be. There are
>> still logical bugs in the (heater) programming which I will attend in
>> due course, but in terms of doing the switching at the right times and
>> temperatures it is simply awesome. So its onto project server, which
>> is the Pi 4B, which is having its 3D case designed...and then project
>> oil level sensor, but that can wait...
>
>   Sounds like a good project. Heating/cooling is always a pain
>   because such systems often use "interesting" wiring and often
>   24 volts (USA anyhow). Getting the "IQ" down just right will
>   probably take awhile. I'd suggest a good old 'fuzzy logic'
>   approach, esp if you have multiple temperature sensors.
>
Oh, we are full on 240VAC here. the 'interesting' wiring is all mine,
from 2001. When I first built the house

>   Oh ... and if the wi-fi goes down, can you still make the
>   damned heating work ? "Fail Safe" thinking needs to go
>   into it all. Oh, gas again, if you're using gas heating
>   DO look into CO/CO2 monitors that can shut off the whole
>   thing Just In Case.

If the wifi goes down that means the power has gone down and the CH wont
work anyway.

I have never had a case of long term wifi failure. A temporary wifi
outage upsets the wifi thermometers though. They need rebooting. Another
slight bug that needs fixing

--
“People believe certain stories because everyone important tells them,
and people tell those stories because everyone important believes them.
Indeed, when a conventional wisdom is at its fullest strength, one’s
agreement with that conventional wisdom becomes almost a litmus test of
one’s suitability to be taken seriously.”

Paul Krugman