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Re: Big-endian history, What's different, was Why did Dennis (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 3 Days 8 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

It used to be a problem because there was so much cr@ppy C code around that assumed little-endian. Now that everyone is aware of it, the problem is mostly gone.

Re: Big-endian history, What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 3 Days 12 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

Pretty much every modern processor today has byte swapping instructions, most of which handle 2-byte, 4-byte and 8-byte swaps. Classic network APIs include functions to handle the byteswapping, such as iton and ntoi. Our I/O bus hardwar

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 3 Days 23 Hours ago by: Lawrence Statton (NK

It's not at all hard, just tedious. First you convert the UTF-8 stream (since virtually all Unicode text streams use it) into a sequence of unicode code-points. The trickiest part is dealing with composite forms. And just the volume -

Re: Big-endian history, What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 4 Hours ago by: chris

Exactly, beat me too it...

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 4 Hours ago by: chris

Right, and there is a packaged pi with inbuilt keyboard available now. Not too expensive either and could be tempted. Rpi comes of age, sort of... Chris

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 4 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

It would be a fun project to read a datastream including Unicode characters and convert the character data to a bitmap to be written to the screen.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 6 Hours ago by: Vir Campestris

This. I have an ICL branded Kokusai terminal on the shelf behind me, and I need to get around to repairing the PSU on the computer it belongs to. When I do I know it will power up with the time and date set to the time and date of my

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 7 Hours ago by: Lawrence Statton (NK

Easibus peasibus ... set your locale to iso-8859-1 ... That is almost-exactly the Digital Extended Character set. If there's glitches it's going to be in something like the ij character.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 8 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

ISTM that a Raspberry Pi, good keyboard, LCD monitor and

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 8 Hours ago by: chris

Lucky man :-)...

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 8 Hours ago by: chris

If you must have a real terminal, then a dec vt100 vt220 or up would guarantee it would work with any vt100 compatable system. Use minicom under FreeBSD or Linux here most of the time. Not perfect, but gets the job done... Chris

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 12 Hours ago by: Chris Adams

When I was like 3 years old, my sister was sitting across the room while I was eating cereal. She did something that annoyed me, so I chucked my cereal bowl at her (given where she said I was sitting and how far and accurate my throw wen

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 14 Hours ago by: Chris Adams

One additional thought: using a traditional hardware terminal for something modern like a Pi could be problematic - newer stuff like that pretty much assumes full ANSI plus Unicode. ANSI is (more or less) a superset of VT102/VT220, so mo

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 14 Hours ago by: songbird

Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 17 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

A little unclear what "best" means. But anyway, there are plenty of semi-modern used terminals available. Looking at ebay for VT terminals turns up plenty. But the prices vary a lot, with the majority looking to be about the $500 range,

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 17 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

I use a VT525 with an LCD screen. Real terminal, nice screen. Can't beat that. :-) Johnny

Re: Mentifex reviews Silverview. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 19 Hours ago by: maus

That makes it 4 books that I have downloaded and not got around to read yet. Please do not review any more before I have caught up! :)

Re: Mentifex reviews Silverview. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 20 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

That's the trouble with teenage AIs, once they figure out how to get themselves stoned it's really hard to get any sense out of them and there's nothing to make them come down.

Re: Mentifex reviews Silverview. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 20 Hours ago by: Kerr-Mudd, John

[] [] too much coffee, methinks.

Mentifex reviews Silverview.

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 4 Days 21 Hours ago by: A.T. Murray

Like to read spy-books, do we? Love the English language? Enjoy a well-turned phrase or an erudite allusion? Alas, I am not at liberty to answer these questions for you. Here I sit in the Five Corners Coffee Shop, where I have just phinish

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 2 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

*LOL* (for the gun) A father of a friend owned a shop selling TV and radio equipment. In the garden behind the shop were dead TV. We smashed some screens with a hammer. I can confirm they did not implode.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 5 Hours ago by: Dennis Boone

You need old Toughbooks to shoot. A rifle round has enough power to get the magnesium to flare as it goes through. (A 9mm handgun doesn't have enough power to _get_ through.) De

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 6 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

IME you really have to work at it to get one to implode. The desk space issue is probably a bigger problem.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 8 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

We tried to break the screen with target arrows. A few good shots could crack it. This was in the Bronx. Firing a gun would draw too much attention. So, it's the "implosion myth".

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 10 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

You need a small dog to go after the squirrels - hopefully ones that won't chew on the cables themselves. No! Sparky! Get away from that power co NO TERRIER

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 10 Hours ago by: Joe Pfeiffer

When the computer center on campus was disposing of a bunch of CRT terminals some friends of mine and I went out to the local shooting range and used them for target practice. Same (lack of exciting) results you saw. A paint can full o

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 11 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

When I was a kid, the property I lived on was frequently a dump site. There were lots of TVs dumped there. We'd heard that word, "implosion", sounds a lot like "explosion" doesn't it? Well, we broke lots of TV tubes, rocks, steel shaft

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 11 Hours ago by: Quadibloc

What with the implosion hazard, high voltages, and X-rays, if one has small children or pets, I can certainly see someone deciding to resist the pull of nostalgia. Plus, with the passage of time, such items are now expensive antiques in

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 11 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

1 - Access for repair, diagnostics and service updates. 2 - Access for high-end AV control systems (Yamaha has RS-232 ports on their receivers for that purpose).

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 12 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Curious, somebody threw out a 2011 LED TV. One jack on the backside is labeled RS-232. What would you do with that on a TV? It also had some USB jacks; that I can understand.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 13 Hours ago by: Magnus Olsson

1. The joy of keeping a "living museum piece" up and running, similar to the joy of having a vintage car in your garage and taking it out for a spin every now and then, even if you don't use it for your everyday travel. 2. Nostalgia valu

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 14 Hours ago by: Chris Adams

I have a C. Itoh 101 (rebadged on the front by Intergraph) in great condition collecting dust. I really have no use for it, or the Sun and Alpha servers its sitting on. I don't know if I could find somebody local interested in any of th

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 16 Hours ago by: Jason Evans

One of the current hot nerd topics is the idea of putting together retro- futuristic cyberdeck devices as secondary or project devices. Cyberdecks are machines with tiny lcd screens with nearly full sized keyboards. I got the idea th

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 18 Hours ago by: maus

I have a sudden vision of Squirrels tapping away at dumb terminals, and wondering why they were getting no reply. Thanks for that. NO CARRIER

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 5 Days 21 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

Agreed, and I snaffle them myself from various places. What isn't so easy to find are all the extras that are sometimes included, such as in _Artificial Paradise_. The original album came packaged like one of those Publishers' Clearing

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 2 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

I suspect z/VSE would have been a lot better.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 2 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

For a while, during my vinyl conversion, I'd also cut a CD with the album content. Of course I had to create a CD label too. One of the easiest images to obtain is the album cover.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 3 Hours ago by: Chris Adams

Note that the Pi serial port is not going to work directly on a classic terminal. The Pi signalling is not RS-232 (typically +12/-12V IIRC) but 3.3V/0V. Sending more than 3.3V into a Pi serial pin will fry it. There are pre-made Pi-to-

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 3 Hours ago by: J. Clarke

Pis are fun. I have one that I normally access through RDP. But it displays fine on a 4K TV. And one time just for the heck of it I got Z/OS running on it. Was ungodly slow, not even good enough to play with, but it booted and ran an

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 3 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

"24x80 ought to be enough for anyone." I still have a couple of H19s myself... That reminds me, I have to find a scanner that does 12x12, for the really obscure albums - or the ones with lots of inserts (e.g. Guess Who's _Artificial P

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 4 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

It's clearly a quest for low resolution. I haven't ordered my first PI yet but I've been studying. Some have bluetooth and wifi. Lots of ways to ssh into one of them or connect a keyboard. I assume this whole thing is for the nostalgi

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 5 Hours ago by: Joe Pfeiffer

New serial terminals are, as far as I know, extinct. My favorite terminals back in the stone age were the DEC VT-220 and the Zenith Z19 (also available as a kit from Heathkit as the H19). I actually have a Z19 in my collection (no, I'm

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 6 Hours ago by: J. Clarke

I believe I've got a couple of new in box ASCII terminals of some sort or other in the attic. Many decades ago Tech Data sent them to me by mistake and didn't want them back and I never had a use for them. If you're interested I'll see

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 8 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

minicom is offered by Linux here. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s I used it for things like connecting to BBS and even online banking. Yeah, takes too much space next to the PDP here. ;-)

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 9 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

I've a pair of 27" 1920x1200 color calibrated flat panels in front on an articulated stand and a 4k 32" to the right. But when I'm running the burroughs emulator, using the real T27 lends verisimilitude to the emulation.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 9 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

For very small values of enjoy I suppose. I'm using a 27 inch flat panel with 5K resolution. Now, that's a "real thing" I can get behind.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 9 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

While emulators are nice (I wrote one for the Unisys T27), I really enjoy using the real thing sometimes (I have two).

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 12 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

xterm! rxvt! putty! Can't imagine actually wanting a tube CRT in my house.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 13 Hours ago by: Jason Evans

If it doesn't put out too much RF interference, a Heathkit terminal might be nice. Put it next to a HW-101 for logging. https://i.redd.it/hjoj2wxtcfh21.png

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 13 Hours ago by: Jason Evans

I saw one of those on YouTube and they looked really neat and almost exactly what I would like to have. I'll just need to find one that isn't rediculously expensive.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 14 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

That too.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 14 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

My experience is old, but most dumb terminals were pretty good toward the end of their run. I liked the VT-220, but the IBM 3101 an HP terminals. were OK. There should be lots of those around.

Re: Best dumb terminal for serial connections (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 14 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

Lear-Siegler ADM-3A.

Best dumb terminal for serial connections

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 16 Hours ago by: Jason Evans

Hi all, I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd like any suggestions you might have for such a machine. The only thing

Next SCCAN meeting - Saturday, May 21, 2022

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 18 Hours ago by: Robert Bernardo

Happy May, C= and Ami comrades! The next meeting of the Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network is Saturday, May 21, from 2 to 5+ p.m. at Panera Bread Restaurant 19662 Nordhoff Street Northridge, California (

Re: OT: Re: Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming death of (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 6 Days 22 Hours ago by: Dave Garland

Her tank was named "Fighting Girlfriend" (the Soviets were big on names/slogans painted on their tanks). She financed part of the tank's construction. She was the tank driver. Was in several successful battles, finally killed in action

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 7 Days 6 Hours ago by: Vir Campestris

Yeah... but.... you say "2 billion" and you've effectively said 2,000,000,000 then you start editing the zeroes (or maybe they're spaces) Andy

Re: OT: Re: Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming death (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 7 Days 7 Hours ago by: maus

AFAIK, Russian women demanded an Army unit for women only in 1915. Both World wars were hard for Women on the eastern front. There was a story that Himmler organized a rescue for half German children when it was clear that Germany was goi

Re: OT: Re: Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 7 Days 9 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

Now they’re “recruiting” soldiers from the captured parts of Ukraine to fight, probably with similar incentives.

Re: OT: Re: Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming death of Putin. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 7 Days 9 Hours ago by: D.J.

Some of the political officers were men, like Krushchev. The Night Witches, Russian fighter-bomber pilots, were abused then murdered upon capture by the Germans. I thought it was myth, but turns out it is fact. A Russian woman heard of

Re: OT: Re: Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming death (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 7 Days 12 Hours ago by: maus

I remember the old men's stories from WWI, of how the advancing soldiers would be FOLLOWED by officers with pistols in their hands, ready to shoot any soldier who hesitated. In the early stages of barberossa, the russian political offic

Re: OT: Re: Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming death of Putin. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 7 Days 13 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

The leadership difficulties in the Russian army go all the way back to WWII. Unlike the western armed forces, the Russians don't have an experienced NCO corp to run daily operations, rather they have officers (and in the Soviet years, p

Re: Google translate nowdoing Sanskrit. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 7 Days 20 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

I had to install the font Lohit (red in Sanskrit apparently) to get it to display properly.

Re: Google translate nowdoing Sanskrit. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 8 Days 2 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Its a font thing, even if correctly declared. Using GNUS too and can *not* see anything but "checkers" (?).

Re: Google translate now doing Sanskrit. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 8 Days 8 Hours ago by: John Levine

It's Unicode, encoded as UTF-8, so I would expect more often than not it displays OK. Sanskrit has roughly the same status in India as classical Latin in Europe, lots of classic texts are written in it, and it's widely studied in school.

Re: OT: Re: Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 8 Days 9 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

I’ve seen some of this elsewhere. Putin’s health seems to be a source of speculation, and I’ve heard about some rumblings of unrest in Russia’s far east. As I said, I’d certainly hope the CIA is talking to people there. Then you

Re: Google translate nowdoing Sanskrit. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 8 Days 10 Hours ago by: Andy Burns

Readable in Thunderbird on Win10

Re: OT: Re: Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming death of Putin. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 8 Days 13 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

Ah, Pete, you might want to check up on the source of the post you are responding to before responding. Wayne Madsen (journalist) (born 1954), American journalist and conspiracy theorist

Re: Google translate nowdoing Sanskrit. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 8 Days 19 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Looks fine with Lohit installed.

Re: Google translate nowdoing Sanskrit. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 8 Days 20 Hours ago by: maus

came through on slrn.

Re: Google translate nowdoing Sanskrit. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 9 Days 1 Hour ago by: Dan Espen

GNUS (Emacs) has no problem. The message is marked as utf-8.

Re: Google translate nowdoing Sanskrit. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 9 Days 4 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

Came thru on my iPad, and I’m surprised - first, that usenet supports it, and second, that newstap (my client) supports it.

Re: Google translate nowdoing Sanskrit. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 9 Days 7 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

That one is beyond my font support - which is pretty rare. Not bad - I wonder if brown is not a colour in Sanskrit and it's an odd use of sloth but valid I goove although slothful would be more common.

Google translate nowdoing Sanskrit.

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 9 Days 10 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

OT: Re: Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 9 Days 10 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

We’ve heard this too many times to put much faith in it. This seems to be a time similar to Russia’s defeat in WW II. I wouldn’t expect to see Cossacks on horseback or armored trains, but the defeated returning veterans may bring

Mentifex channels Wayne Madsen Report on coming death of Putin.

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 9 Days 22 Hours ago by: A.T. Murray

May 13-15, 2022 -- Wartime News -- Russia: the coming collapse with Putin approaching death's door Russia appears to be facing a perfect storm. Its armed forces continue to falter in their invasion of Ukraine, while dictator Vladimir Putin

It is as a victim of a frame-up that I testify

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 10 Days 3 Hours ago by: Steve Brown

This text was translated by Google translate What happens at the start of 2020? Emmanuel Macron, in complicity with the Government of Canada.. https://charbonneau-gomery-corruption-canada.blogspot.com/2022/02/it-is-as-victim-of-frame-up-t

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 11 Days 18 Hours ago by: Bob Eager

Instantly recognisable and much more generic. 2,147,483,647. That's 2 to the power 31, minus 1. Or the largest signed number in 32 bits.

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 11 Days 19 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Eh ? It's 111111111111111111111111111111 and prime unless my google-fu is slipping (I'd probably have recognised it forty years ago).

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 11 Days 21 Hours ago by: Dave Garland

I didn't recognize it, but a quick search shows that it's a ref to MS Exchange mailbox users. I'll take the google-fu points, but don't deserve the nerd points.

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 13 Days 9 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

On the other hand, sometimes you're only interested in an approximation. If someone started saying a long number using some sort of little-endian notation, you couldn't stop him once you got enough significance; you'd have to wait until

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 13 Days 19 Hours ago by: maus

From a different standpoint, when I see a number like that, I check if the number is real, or just some random gibberish entered to fill a space.

Next FCUG meeting - Sunday, May 15, 2022

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 14 Days ago by: Robert Bernardo

Happy Mother’s Day, C= and Ami aficionados! The Fresno Commodore User Group has its next meeting from 11 a.m. to 1:30+ p.m., Sunday, May 15, at Panera Bread Restaurant 3590 W Shaw Ave. (corner of W. Shaw Ave. and Marty Ave.)

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 14 Days 7 Hours ago by: Vir Campestris

I've been busy, so I'm late. One of the first things I learned as a child was "Four and twenty blackbirds, baked in a pie". When I see a number like 123678 the first thing I have to do is work out how many digits there are. Only then

Re: Sun Ultra > 2Gb Memory ?. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 17 Days 3 Hours ago by: chris

Thanks for that and yes, all the docs do say 2GB, but wondered if anyone had tried more and found it to work. I guess the limiting factor might be the availability of 256Mb or more dimms, 5v, ecc, perhaps fast page mode as well, like some

Re: Sun Ultra > 2Gb Memory ?. (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 17 Days 5 Hours ago by: Jesse Rehmer

If it has an Ultra 60 motherboard, it only supports up to 128MB DIMMs according to the Ultra 60 Reference Manual: https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19127-01/ultra60.ws/805-1762-11/805-1762-11.pdf "DIMM sizes of 16-, 32-, 64-, and 128-Mbytes

Sun Ultra > 2Gb Memory ?.

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 17 Days 10 Hours ago by: chris

Hi, I'm working on a Sun a Netra T1125 for a project, Ultra 60 m/b. It's running FreeBSD Sparc 11 rel, packages built, including vnc server and more. It has 16 x 128MB, 2GB, but running zfs, could really do with some more. Were there any

Re: Videos from the Vintage Computer Festival East 2022 (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 19 Days 22 Hours ago by: Robert Bernardo

Part 2 of the biggest C= group gathered in years! The 12 Commodore engineers and employees discuss their remembrances of working at Commodore Business Machines -- Andy Finkel, Al Charpentier, Benny Pruden, Bil Herd, Bob Russell, Carl S

Re: byte me, was What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 20 Days 12 Hours ago by: D.J.

One of the guys on the US Navy ship got permission to build a Heathkit television in one of his work spaces. He measured and it would fit out of the hatch. Yes, a small work space. Yes, the manual gave a certain size. But the chassis was

Re: Videos from the Vintage Computer Festival East 2022 (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 20 Days 23 Hours ago by: Robert Bernardo

Here it is... the main event! The biggest C= group gathered in years, 12 Commodore engineers and employees to discuss their remembrances of working at Commodore Business Machines. Andy Finkel, Al Charpentier, Benny Pruden, Bil Herd,

Re: byte me, was What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 21 Days ago by: J. Clarke

Apropos of nothing, I miss Heathkit. Got a 21" Heathkit TV for my (IIRC) 15th birthday. Carried that thing in to school so the physics class could watch the Apollo 10 launch (no, my high school apparently did not own a television).

Re: byte me, was What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 21 Days 2 Hours ago by: Anne & Lynn Whee

other trivia: when the ASCII port scanner "upgrade" arrived to be installed in the 360 telecommunication controller ... it came in a "Heathkit" box

Re: byte me, was What's different, was Why did Dennis (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 21 Days 3 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

This was my first experience with ASCII, and my reaction was”what a p** of sh*t.” It was only later that I realized that this was an artifact of the comm controller and not an inherent property of ASCII.

Re: Videos from the Vintage Computer Festival East 2022 (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 21 Days 21 Hours ago by: Robert Bernardo

Commodore engineers Dave Haynie and Andy Finkel talk about Amiga computer development, telling the story from 1984 and then going throughout the years. Go to Haynie and Finkel - VCFE 2022 https://youtu.be/EGDt4aaeUQM Trul

Re: byte me, was What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 21 Days 22 Hours ago by: Anne & Lynn Whee

IBM had different (interesting?) "bit" order issue ... its telecommunication controllers stored arriving bits starting in the low order bit position in a byte (and started transmitting bits from low order position). Ran into the problem

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 22 Days 2 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

I used to think that, but it’s pretty simple. Besides the fact that there’s code available, which I didn’t know about, I did just this when re-hosting Iron Spring PL/I from a Z to x86. Of course I didn’t have to handle edge cases,

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 22 Days 6 Hours ago by: Peter Maydell

If you're really unlucky there may be three machines involved :-) I once had to write code to handle working with images that ran in a word-invariant[*] little-endian VM running on a host that might be either big or little endian and wher

Re: byte me, was What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 22 Days 7 Hours ago by: John Levine

Oh, OK. All of the data structures in Internet protocols like TCP, IP, and NFS are big-endian, and obviously every computer used in this argument is on the Internet. So big-endian wins. Glad we sorted that out.

Re: Big-endian history, What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 22 Days 8 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

Usually, the pain is minimal. On a PDP-11, you have an instruction for that: SWAB Johnny

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 22 Days 8 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

Indeed. And when I want to read my 64-bit integer as an 8-bit integer, I happen to like that I can refer to the value using the same address. :-) But the other case is just when you want to convert from one byte order to another. But y

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 22 Days 8 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

Yes. That is the one time when it matters. When you are communicating between two different machines with different byte order. Then you'll need to rearrange the bytes on one side or the other. It becomes just a convention on deciding w

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 22 Days 8 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

When do you rearrange bytes? When the computer read an integer that is more than one byte, it does the byte order processing, not you. :-D Johnny

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was a modern implementation of CTSS? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 22 Days 22 Hours ago by: J. Clarke

The only time I recall having to rearrange bytes I had to deal on a PC with binaries created on a Z. Fortunately they were all fixed-point. If they had been floating point I would have had a _lot_ of fun.

Re: Videos from the Vintage Computer Festival East 2022 (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 22 Days 22 Hours ago by: Robert Bernardo

This VCF East video has Commodore engineers Bil Herd and Albert Charpentier talking about the C= computers of 1977 to 1985. Go to https://youtu.be/FwYb1sXqylI Truly, Robert Bernardo Fresno Commodore Use

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was a modern implementation of CTSS? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 1 Hour ago by: Dan Espen

Nope, not normally. Isn't it obvious which is easier? It's the one where you don't have to rearrange the bytes. I programmed IBM 14xx systems for more than a few years. I never did like having to count 0-9 A-F.

Re: Big-endian history, What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 1 Hour ago by: John Levine

Yup. Several decades of people arguing about big vs little endian have made it abundantly clear that neither has a significant practical advantage over the other, although it remains a minor pain to convert from one to the other.

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 3 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

Big woo-hoo on the first two, but picture is sheer genius. IBM was smart to bring it into PL/I. Bemer is a very underrated figure from computer history. He seems to have had his finger in a lot of pies.

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 3 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

Sometimes you are.

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was a modern implementation of CTSS? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 4 Hours ago by: Anne & Lynn Whee

from post in thread couple weeks ago ... biggest computer goof, 360 was supposed to be ASCII, by the (IBM) father of ASCII, gone 404 from wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20180513184025/http://www.bobbemer.com/P-BIT.HTM I men

Re: Big-endian history, What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 5 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

Happy we agree. [...] Ah. Somewhere I got lost or something here. The 360 then makes perfect sense, just like the PDP-11. One big-endian, the other little. Both store bytes in a text in the reasonable order. So, I guess there isn't

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 5 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

The answer goes off on a tangent because the argument is basically "because I like it". Which makes it a rather meaningless argument. A computer don't really care about how you read numbers, and don't find one order "easier" than any o

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 5 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

In which way are they easier to use with one byte order than the other? Do you have problems using any x86 based machines because of the byte order? Do you normally even notice the byte order? I can tell you that on the PDP-11, which I

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 9 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

OTOH, there’s a lot to be said for maintaining compatibility with others. If nothing else, there are fewer things to be surprised by when moving to a new system. Everyone once had there own version of BCD because there may have been an

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 18 Hours ago by: maus

To answer my own question, I checked Eric Hamleers page, and Slackware-live is still systemd free. Not that I think that is important.. but a detail.

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 18 Hours ago by: maus

I believe from recent messages that some people who read this group still use Slackware, and I would ask them if slackware-current is still systemd free?

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 20 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Computers should represent data in whichever way optimises processing. Computers should present data in whichever way optimises understanding. If there are two apparently equally good choices and everyone else has made one of them,

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 23 Days 21 Hours ago by: Dave Garland

But why would we say "100,000" when we mean "100000"? For human readability. Why would we say "A" rather than "65" or "0x41"? Same.

Re: Videos from the Vintage Computer Festival East 2022 (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days ago by: Robert Bernardo

Another video, this time of Neil Harris as he talks about his experiences working at CBM and about Jack Tramiel. Harris of CBM - VCFE 2022 https://youtu.be/AAkBBuxh43w Back in California, Robert Bernardo Fresno C

Re: Big-endian history, What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days ago by: John Levine

So far, so good. Of course. Don't take mt word for it, read the manual. General design of S/360: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/princOps/A22-6821-7_360PrincOpsDec67.pdf The cut down 16-bit 360/20: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/36

Re: No Glory for the PDP-15

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days 9 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

I would suspect it’s an accidental effect of the way WATFIV scans input text rather than a deliberate feature.

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days 9 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

I've heard this described as the "NUXI problem". And no, the 360 doesn't work like that.

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days 9 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

?enil a no wolf txet dluow yaw hcihw dnA

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was a modern implementation of CTSS? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days 11 Hours ago by: D.J.

I am puzzled why your answer went off on a tangent. We say 100,000 when we mean 100,000. Not 1.

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was a modern implementation of CTSS? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days 13 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

Yes. Besides all that, it seems that your argument is that there is no reason to make computers easier to use.

Re: No Glory for the PDP-15

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days 14 Hours ago by: Robin Vowels

This would be in the source program. It was, of course, nonstandard.

Re: No Glory for the PDP-15

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days 14 Hours ago by: Robin Vowels

On Tuesday, January 1, 2008 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-7, Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote: Record content can be any bit combination. I have used FORTRAN (pre and post F77) to read picture files, the content of which can be any and all possible bit c

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days 15 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

That the PDP-11 is a 16-bit machine, and not a 32-bit machine is obvious, and have nothing to do with personal preferences. :-) That the first character is stored in the first byte is a rather natural behavior. Since we seem to claim

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 24 Days 15 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

So it's exactly because "you like it"? It's a computer. It can deal with any format just as easily. Just because you can't is hardly an argument. That's why we have computers in the first place. To do all the boring tasks that can easi

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days ago by: Radey Shouman

Who knows? After all, Arabic numerals, meaning those actually written in Arabic script, have the most significant digit on the left and the least on the right. The physical order is the same as for left to right scripts, but the logica

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 1 Hour ago by: John Levine

Hmmn, big-endian cultural imperialism. IF S/360 had been designed by people who spoke Urdu or Arabic or Hebrew, would have been big-endian or little-endian?

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 2 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

If I write one-hundred thousand, I write 100,000, not 000,001. All else being equal, why shouldn’t computers represent data as much as possible in the way people think of it?

Re: Videos from the Vintage Computer Festival East 2022 (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 3 Hours ago by: Robert Bernardo

Some more videos have been posted! See McGann and his C64 emulator - VCFE 2022 https://youtu.be/8GpPacpNSAU Grip and Reverse engineering the C128 - VCFE 2022 https://youtu.be/XirYtA7aNao Back in California, Ro

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 6 Hours ago by: John Levine

I'm seeing a lot of "obvious" in this discussion that reverse-engineers people's personal preferences. The 360/20 was a byte addressed 16 bit machine with 16 bit registers. The first character in the first byte of what they called a half

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 6 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

Must be a BSD issue :-). The software I work on takes almost an hour for a clean (non-parallel) build under Linux (Centos 6.4) on a 7 year old Dell server. Using -j16, it finishes in about 8-10 minutes. $ sloccount . Totals grouped by

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 6 Hours ago by: Vir Campestris

16Gb is enough for my home machine, but my work one thrashed. It was the compilations that were the problem; even a rebuild takes 7 minutes, and it's about 40 for a clean build. Andy

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 14 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

I should probably stop commenting on these things... :-) Reference? What I do know is that the PDP-8 had hardware that could do 24-bit things, and for those, the first word is the high 12 bits (that would be the FPP-12). There don't s

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 14 Hours ago by: Bob Eager

I personally think either is equally valid, but I wish a lot of hex dump programs would show little endian words running from right to left. You have to read each word, from right to left, but the words usually appear left to rught!

Re: What's different, was Why did Dennis Ritchie write that UNIX was (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 14 Hours ago by: Johnny Billquist

And I don't even get the problem? In what way is either order superior? It seems like you (and some others) seem to think that big-endian somehow is the only proper choice, and superior in some way. This seems a very silly, subjective

Re: No Glory for the PDP-15

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 15 Hours ago by: Freddy1X

A 2008 posting? Admittedly, I have been here longer... Freddy, not a greybeard however.

Tymnet protocol

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 25 Days 22 Hours ago by: Lars Brinkhoff

Hello, I'm looking into adding Tymnet support to a PDP-10 emulator. I have some code on the TENEX side and the list below, but not much else about how the protocol should work. Does anyone have any documentation? ANS ;1 system is answe

Videos from the Vintage Computer Festival East 2022

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 26 Days 1 Hour ago by: Robert Bernardo

My first 2 videos from the April 22-24 Vintage Computer Festival East 2022 have posted. See Stout and PC tools for C64 programming - VCFE 2022 https://youtu.be/nQTs_q8IkX4 Reinauer and the ReA4091 board - VCFE 2022 https://youtu.b

Re: No Glory for the PDP-15

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 26 Days 10 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

IIRC WATFIV accepted 0xFF as an "ignore everything from here on" character. If you punched it in a card (people called it a "zigamorph", made on a keypunch by using the multi-punch key and punching 12-11-0-7-8-9), you could use the remai

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 26 Days 11 Hours ago by: Andy Leighton

No, I was sharing a house with someone else (who actually owned it), and I didn't want to hog the phone-line even overnight.

Re: No Glory for the PDP-15

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 26 Days 13 Hours ago by: Quadibloc

It's possible that a Fortran standard might only guarantee that the standard Fortran character set will be supported, but in practice, implementations won't behave that way. John Savard

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 26 Days 16 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Did you (like me) make the mistake of attempting to download 1.0 when it was announced ? My ftp client reported "1 bytes per second" download rate when I gave up contributing to DDOSing Finland.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 26 Days 17 Hours ago by: maus

Ta for that.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 26 Days 18 Hours ago by: Andy Leighton

Yep SLS was my first Linux too. Pre 1.00 kernel, but it had enough to keep me happy on my very underpowered machine (it kind of forced my hand and I had to buy more RAM).

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 3 Hours ago by: Chris Adams

Not really "lots more" - pointers get larger, but a program is mostly not pointers. Also, specifically on x86, going from the 32-bit ISA to the 64-bit ISA increased the register set, so improves performance by keeping more things in the

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 4 Hours ago by: Leonard Blaisdell

I'll be the odd one out here, since I've been using Macs exclusively since the mid eighties. I ran Linux on a Mac in the mid to late nineties for fun and mostly with Midnight Commander in the terminal, IIRC. Having said that, I quit usi

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 4 Hours ago by: meff

I have many thoughts about Gimp and wonderful isn't one of them. My partner who actually makes a good bit of art refuses to use Gimp unless she absolutely has no other choice. It's unintuitive, the selectors barely work, the key shortcuts

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 5 Hours ago by: songbird

i've not found any huge problems with GIMP on 64 bits. i only have 8G of memory on this machine and i rarely touch swap even when editing pics. songbird

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 6 Hours ago by: Mike Spencer

My level of "smart" is of the "wait and see how New Kewl Shiny" plays out. NKS evangelism doesn't light my fire. Huh. I wasn't aware of that. I mean, "64 bits" sounds so cool. But in another post someone opined that Gimp was *wors

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 6 Hours ago by: Bob Eager

That's exactly the same for me. I build most of my own packages, custom. 100% this. I do stick to well supported video - usually nVidia. I have no need for high graphics performance so usually go for the passively cooled ones. Abso

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 7 Hours ago by: maus

I have never used photoshop.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 7 Hours ago by: maus

Thoroughly agreed. What I liked about Slackware is that the installation iso included everything one would need, vim, graphics viewer, rather than downloading a lot of needed stuff later (Tex live). Debian is the next best OS and does me.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 7 Hours ago by: Joe Pfeiffer

I started with slackware back in the 1.2 kernel series, migrated to RedHat some time around Y2K, started using Mandrake packages with it for reasons that I'm sure seemed good at the time, found myself in a non-upgradeable dependency hell, s

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 8 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

My first Linux was on about seventy floppy discs, I recall thinking that the asking price was fair value for blank floppies so it didn't matter if the claims were garbage (£50 for a complete unix with compiler *and* text processing *an

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 9 Hours ago by: Kerr-Mudd, John

I'm not a Painter, but I've heard PaintShopPro does most of what's wanted. (I merely use IrfanView to resize pics, so what do I know?)

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 9 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

I've been exclusively 64-bit (linux) since 2006; I've personally not found any significant performance degradation due to the wider data type, which isn't surprising considering that 32-bit data are still supported by the 64-bit processo

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 9 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

How does it compare to Photoshop in memory usage? For what I do it seems as good or better as PS in features.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 9 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

Sounds like my story, except that my Great Fat Book (which I chose because I liked it better than the other Great Fat Books in the store) contained a Slackware CD (3.5 IIRC). I stayed with Slackware for some time, but I found myself in

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 10 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

64 bit isn't going to help but adding lots of memory does. My desktop is at 32G now, runs well.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 11 Hours ago by: maus

Gimp is wonderful, when you take time to learn it, but to me seems a real memory hog.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 11 Hours ago by: maus

I loaned a laptop to a descendent whose chrome book had barfed, and I am now trying to get it back as she is moving to a smartphone (blaagh) If I get it back, I will try to install Slackware on it.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 27 Days 11 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

I thought it would improve the performance of gimp with large numbers of files and/or large files, but it made things worse.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 28 Days 4 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

The only real reason to go to 64 bit is to have loadsa memory. unless it's ARM in which case the 64 bit code is often smaller than the 32 bit.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 28 Days 6 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

Smart. I went from 32 to 64 bits and am sorry I did. Naturally 64-bit apps require lots more memory to do the same thing, so my machine, perfectly useable before, now has inadequate memory and is running slower.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 28 Days 7 Hours ago by: Mike Spencer

In all those years, I never did an upgrade until most recently, always did a from-scratch install, on a new (2nd hand) computer or on a new HD. New installs have always been smooth modulo implementing my personal idiosyncrasies/tweaks.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 28 Days 12 Hours ago by: ted@loft.tnolan.com

Indeed. I have used FreeBSD as a desktop since the early 90s. Enlightenment is all the WM I need.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 28 Days 17 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

This is one of the great features of FreeBSD - smooth painless upgrades are the norm but you should see the howls in the mailing list any time someone drops the ball on that, it takes months for the protests to die down. The workstati

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 28 Days 18 Hours ago by: maus

I am a slackware fan, but found Debian easier to install on the last laptop I converted to Linux.. I have an older laptop that I have Slackware installed on, and when I upgrade that machine, the update is not very smooth.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 28 Days 20 Hours ago by: Mike Spencer

Wot 'e said. My first Linux was a CD in a Great Fat Book. Caldera, and it booted by default into KDE. I hastened to switch to Slackware, set up twm and it's been my desktop on numerous computers for over 20 years.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 28 Days 21 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Certainly that has a lot to do with it, the BSDs were complete systems from the start and self hosting was a goal they inherited from CSRG. That's what I've always done. I looked at both TrueNAS and pfSense and rolled my own, they ha

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 28 Days 22 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Not just the philosophy and not just systemd but that is a bit of a poster child. I see it as part of a trend, replacing man with info, ifconfig with ip (which I hear is deprecated now), moving config around, emphasising the GUI, Waylan

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 29 Days 6 Hours ago by: Bob Eager

Indeed. I started with FreeBSD 1.0 and I now use 13.0, and it's been comfortable. I was worried about pkg-ng, but it is so much better.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 29 Days 7 Hours ago by: John Levine

I'd say that's due to the way it's distributed. With Linux, the core part is just the kernel and each distro throws in whatever it feels like throwing in. With FreeBSD, the core part is enough to run as a network server and recompile itse

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 29 Days 7 Hours ago by: Quadibloc

Minix was proprietary, but I thought it was there and working and the inspiration for Linux. John Savard

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 29 Days 7 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

It does indeed - but what it has been very reluctant to do is replace things that work with something new in the hope that they will one day work better - notable exceptions pkg-ng (OK that worked better from day one), newpcm (now just

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 29 Days 7 Hours ago by: Bob Eager

I wonder if the comment was more about moving away from the original UNIX philosophy. It can be argued that Linux is doing that faster (I was thinking of systemd, for example).

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 29 Days 8 Hours ago by: John Levine

I dunno. FreeBSD has jails, Capsicum, and native ZFS support in the base system. Those are each pretty significant extensions beyond what was in Unix.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 29 Days 10 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Nice observation. It goes some way to explaining why the BSDs are still pretty much unchanged unix systems apart from hardware support while the Linux distros move steadily further away from being unix.

Re: Why did Linux Succeed while Hurd Failed? (thread)

alt.folklore.computers

Posted: 29 Days 11 Hours ago by: Bud Frede

Yes, but... I'm sure that the difficulty that GNU experienced in developing a microkernel was an issue that helped keep HURD almost stillborn. However, I feel that the real differentiating factor was that Linux was just a kernel, and t

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